Hello all, I was hoping that someone in the community could help me with this one. Maybe I just think about it wrong but Sorcerers gain news spells when they level up whereas wizards learn new spells by studying and copying the spell into their spellbook correct? So could a sorcerer learn spells out of a spell book in between leveling up? Or would a spell book be useless to a sorcerer?
A spellbook is completely useless to a sorceress, if the goal is to learn spell. A sorcerer has a fixed number of spells at each level (can't have more) and when he/she gains a new level he/she can switch the spells as he/she pleases (always from the sorcerer spell list).
A spellbook would unfortunately be useless to a sorcerer. The method by which a sorcerer or wizard learns spells is just too different.
As an aside, if the sorcerer took the ritual caster feat, they could probably scribe rituals from the found spellbook into their own ritual book, eliminating the need to find scrolls to scribe.
The only time a Spellbook would be of use is if the Sorcerer has the Ritual Caster feat OR if the spell contains a new spell (that is a Sor spell as well) that they could then pick as a spell the next time they level up.
The only time a Spellbook would be of use is if the Sorcerer has the Ritual Caster feat OR if the spell contains a new spell (that is a Sor spell as well) that they could then pick as a spell the next time they level up.
That last bit is a little confusing. Wouldn't that just be a DM-dependent RP thing or is it a prereq. for a sorcerer to have seen a spell be cast to learn it (kind of like a druid with wild shape)?
Also @Mutant_vapes27 , excellent choice of avatar!
The only time a Spellbook would be of use is if the Sorcerer has the Ritual Caster feat OR if the spell contains a new spell (that is a Sor spell as well) that they could then pick as a spell the next time they level up.
That last bit is a little confusing. Wouldn't that just be a DM-dependent RP thing or is it a prereq. for a sorcerer to have seen a spell be cast to learn it (kind of like a druid with wild shape)?
Also @Mutant_vapes27 , excellent choice of avatar!
In the sense of - you find a spell in a book that is a Sorcerer spell, but not from the PHB (say a DM wanted to introduce homebrew spells, or something from another supplement). Then using a spellbook they could figure out the spell and then "learn" it when they gain a level.
Has anyone come up with a homebrew/house rule idea to possibly modify this? I'm currently DMing a Waterdeep Dragon Heist campaign and one of my players is a sorcerer. Fairly early on you find a spellbook on a vanquished foe and she asked if there's any way she could benefit from the spells in it. I hesitated to say "no" and told her I'd think on it and let her know next session. I'm tempted to just say she can essentially use each page as a scroll, but I was wondering if anyone had schemed up an idea for how to allow a sorcerer to potentially roll arcana and learn a spell, even if only for a single use per attempt.
Warlocks who have chosen a specific Pact Boon and a specific Eldritch Invocation can copy rituals from any class into their Book of Shadows, obeying the restrictions in the invocation.
Has anyone come up with a homebrew/house rule idea to possibly modify this? I'm currently DMing a Waterdeep Dragon Heist campaign and one of my players is a sorcerer. Fairly early on you find a spellbook on a vanquished foe and she asked if there's any way she could benefit from the spells in it. I hesitated to say "no" and told her I'd think on it and let her know next session. I'm tempted to just say she can essentially use each page as a scroll, but I was wondering if anyone had schemed up an idea for how to allow a sorcerer to potentially roll arcana and learn a spell, even if only for a single use per attempt.
She could sell it and benefit from the coin. ;)
But as others have said, if she had Ritual Caster and the contained spells were rituals, then assuming she had the time and materials she could copy them to her ritual book. Otherwise, it's just a book. Just like a wizard can't learn sorcerer spells by watching a Sorc, Sorcs can't learn Wizard spells by reading a book. Unless they multiclass, then that shows that they have dedicated the amount of time necessary to learn how to cast those spells. Otherwise it would kind of make the Wizard class obsolete if any spellslinger can pick up their book of spells and sling them.
Yeah I understand the mechanical aspect, I was just wondering if anyone had come up with a fun house rule or concept to integrate something even temporarily. The party has no wizards and with 5e being fairly stingy on character-specific loot/items until higher levels it felt unsatisfying to have characters essentially clear a dungeon and walk away with nothing more than some cash.
Well, as the DM you can always creatively manipulate the book, like make it a ritual book instead of a spell book (minor difference, I know), offer to let the PCs turn the spells in the book inoto single use scrolls, or like you previously said, allow them to use the pages from the book like scrolls. Alternatively, have the PCs meet a travelling wizard that offers to trade the spell book for a magic item (homebrew or otherwise) that is of particular use to the Sorcerer. Hide an invisible map in the back of the book that leads to a magical stash, thus opening a minor sidequest with more relevant loot. Have a powerful mage or super sneaky rogue try to take the book from them. There are tons of ways to turn thhat book from "useless loot" to "interesting plot hook."
Hello all, I was hoping that someone in the community could help me with this one. Maybe I just think about it wrong but Sorcerers gain news spells when they level up whereas Showboxjiofi.local.htmltplinklogin wizards learn new spells by studying and copying the spell into their spellbook correct? So could a sorcerer learn spells out of a spell book in between leveling up? Or would a spell book be useless to a sorcerer?
I'm tempted to just say she can essentially use each page as a scroll, but I was wondering if anyone had schemed up an idea for how to allow a sorcerer to potentially roll arcana and learn a spell, even if only for a single use per attempt.
Mechanically, a sorcerer has nothing to gain from a spellbook without feats. Wizards have the ability to gain new spells from spell scrolls and spellbooks, but only wizards get this.
If your sorcerer has the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat, things change a lot. Most wizards would keep some rituals in their spellbooks, so this sorcerer has a solid, mechanical advantage upon finding such tomes. Such spells would still cost gold to learn and copy, but now you'd have that utility option.
A spellbook costs a sizable amount of gold, both to initially purchace and to copy new spells into it. Spellbooks with useful and/or powerful spells can potentially go for a lot.
Wizards and sorcerers share a good amount of spells on their lists. Roleplaying-wise, a sorcerer may want a better understanding of how the Weave works or how it is they can manipulate it so easily, and studying a spellbook (and thus possibly multiclassing into wizard) may be the way to go. If it'll lead to an enriched story, by all means go for it!
The sorcerer can still be well versed in the weave and the technical undertakings that their casting counterparts have to endure. From that they could have spent time contemplating their own casting and maybe somehow "reverse engineering" how they come to know their spells, or however it comes to work for them. That combined with their knowledge of the weave, they too can interpret/decipher what's written in such languages/glyphs, and from their own self-study can integrate this found understanding into their own methods.
All you have to do to make this work is break the rules through context/flavor, just not through mechanics (unless of course it's agreed upon, such as a spell from different class list, max number of spells etc.). As somebody above mentioned, you could have the sorcerer reading the book, and then on their next level up they can "learn" that spell if their max number increases or simply have it replace one of their other spells.
Remember, class descriptions are merely roleplay guidelines, and most mechanics can be flavored or contextualized as something else (best if it makes sense still of course).
Maybe you actually like the mechanics for the sorcerer, but want to roleplay a more "wizardy" character of a bookish learner. Well guess what, now you're playing a sorcerer (mechanically/balance wise), only instead of your powers being innate within you, you just worked at it and learned just like a "typical" wizard.
Some DM's like to house rule that no, you can't learn any spell you like when you go up a level, instead you need someone to train you. My current DM likes to do things like "you have no knowledge of the forbidden school of Necromancy, and neither does your teacher, you can't pick that school.
If your DM does this, then a spell book can be an excuse to let you learn a spell on your spell list that the DM is not letting you learn otherwise.
Some DM's like to house rule that no, you can't learn any spell you like when you go up a level, instead you need someone to train you. My current DM likes to do things like "you have no knowledge of the forbidden school of Necromancy, and neither does your teacher, you can't pick that school.
If your DM does this, then a spell book can be an excuse to let you learn a spell on your spell list that the DM is not letting you learn otherwise.
I would also recommend using the opportunity to find a different DM, because that doesn't sound like any fun at all.
drag0n_77. he can be annoying. He is old school and has some ideas and prejudices left over from previous editions. Max score is 18 without powerful magic. Would not let me play a dragon sorceror when we started this game, nor a tiefling. But the newest character we added to the group is a tiefling dragon sorcerer. ;(
On the other hand, I have a ring of protection +3 because he thinks of it as normal, rather than unusual. And last session we made peacful contact with a drow mage, so I was given permission to learn some Necromancy spells. Have to roll an Arcana check each time, but so fare I have learned a few and will begin to learn the good stuff (Goal is Soul Cage).
Also have some items that should clearly be attuned but are not. Things tend to balance out.
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Hello all, I was hoping that someone in the community could help me with this one. Maybe I just think about it wrong but Sorcerers gain news spells when they level up whereas wizards learn new spells by studying and copying the spell into their spellbook correct? So could a sorcerer learn spells out of a spell book in between leveling up? Or would a spell book be useless to a sorcerer?
- Dro Coborel in Firedeath MUST die
A spellbook is completely useless to a sorceress, if the goal is to learn spell. A sorcerer has a fixed number of spells at each level (can't have more) and when he/she gains a new level he/she can switch the spells as he/she pleases (always from the sorcerer spell list).
A spellbook would unfortunately be useless to a sorcerer. The method by which a sorcerer or wizard learns spells is just too different.
As an aside, if the sorcerer took the ritual caster feat, they could probably scribe rituals from the found spellbook into their own ritual book, eliminating the need to find scrolls to scribe.
Okay, thanks,guys!!!! I thought so I just needed to double check! I appreciate it!! :)
- Dro Coborel in Firedeath MUST die
The only time a Spellbook would be of use is if the Sorcerer has the Ritual Caster feat OR if the spell contains a new spell (that is a Sor spell as well) that they could then pick as a spell the next time they level up.
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I"m fairly certain the only class that can benefit from the use of a spellbook is the wizard.
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Wary the wizard who focuses on homebrew, for he can create nightmares that you wouldn't even dream of
Has anyone come up with a homebrew/house rule idea to possibly modify this? I'm currently DMing a Waterdeep Dragon Heist campaign and one of my players is a sorcerer. Fairly early on you find a spellbook on a vanquished foe and she asked if there's any way she could benefit from the spells in it. I hesitated to say "no" and told her I'd think on it and let her know next session. I'm tempted to just say she can essentially use each page as a scroll, but I was wondering if anyone had schemed up an idea for how to allow a sorcerer to potentially roll arcana and learn a spell, even if only for a single use per attempt.
Warlocks can.
Warlocks who have chosen a specific Pact Boon and a specific Eldritch Invocation can copy rituals from any class into their Book of Shadows, obeying the restrictions in the invocation.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
She could sell it and benefit from the coin. ;)
But as others have said, if she had Ritual Caster and the contained spells were rituals, then assuming she had the time and materials she could copy them to her ritual book. Otherwise, it's just a book. Just like a wizard can't learn sorcerer spells by watching a Sorc, Sorcs can't learn Wizard spells by reading a book. Unless they multiclass, then that shows that they have dedicated the amount of time necessary to learn how to cast those spells. Otherwise it would kind of make the Wizard class obsolete if any spellslinger can pick up their book of spells and sling them.
Yeah I understand the mechanical aspect, I was just wondering if anyone had come up with a fun house rule or concept to integrate something even temporarily. The party has no wizards and with 5e being fairly stingy on character-specific loot/items until higher levels it felt unsatisfying to have characters essentially clear a dungeon and walk away with nothing more than some cash.
Well, as the DM you can always creatively manipulate the book, like make it a ritual book instead of a spell book (minor difference, I know), offer to let the PCs turn the spells in the book inoto single use scrolls, or like you previously said, allow them to use the pages from the book like scrolls. Alternatively, have the PCs meet a travelling wizard that offers to trade the spell book for a magic item (homebrew or otherwise) that is of particular use to the Sorcerer. Hide an invisible map in the back of the book that leads to a magical stash, thus opening a minor sidequest with more relevant loot. Have a powerful mage or super sneaky rogue try to take the book from them. There are tons of ways to turn thhat book from "useless loot" to "interesting plot hook."
I'm tempted to just say she can essentially use each page as a scroll, but I was wondering if anyone had schemed up an idea for how to allow a sorcerer to potentially roll arcana and learn a spell, even if only for a single use per attempt.
Mechanically, a sorcerer has nothing to gain from a spellbook without feats. Wizards have the ability to gain new spells from spell scrolls and spellbooks, but only wizards get this.
If your sorcerer has the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat, things change a lot. Most wizards would keep some rituals in their spellbooks, so this sorcerer has a solid, mechanical advantage upon finding such tomes. Such spells would still cost gold to learn and copy, but now you'd have that utility option.
A spellbook costs a sizable amount of gold, both to initially purchace and to copy new spells into it. Spellbooks with useful and/or powerful spells can potentially go for a lot.
Wizards and sorcerers share a good amount of spells on their lists. Roleplaying-wise, a sorcerer may want a better understanding of how the Weave works or how it is they can manipulate it so easily, and studying a spellbook (and thus possibly multiclassing into wizard) may be the way to go. If it'll lead to an enriched story, by all means go for it!
The sorcerer can still be well versed in the weave and the technical undertakings that their casting counterparts have to endure. From that they could have spent time contemplating their own casting and maybe somehow "reverse engineering" how they come to know their spells, or however it comes to work for them. That combined with their knowledge of the weave, they too can interpret/decipher what's written in such languages/glyphs, and from their own self-study can integrate this found understanding into their own methods.
All you have to do to make this work is break the rules through context/flavor, just not through mechanics (unless of course it's agreed upon, such as a spell from different class list, max number of spells etc.). As somebody above mentioned, you could have the sorcerer reading the book, and then on their next level up they can "learn" that spell if their max number increases or simply have it replace one of their other spells.
Remember, class descriptions are merely roleplay guidelines, and most mechanics can be flavored or contextualized as something else (best if it makes sense still of course).
Maybe you actually like the mechanics for the sorcerer, but want to roleplay a more "wizardy" character of a bookish learner. Well guess what, now you're playing a sorcerer (mechanically/balance wise), only instead of your powers being innate within you, you just worked at it and learned just like a "typical" wizard.
Depends on how much of a dick your DM is.
Some DM's like to house rule that no, you can't learn any spell you like when you go up a level, instead you need someone to train you. My current DM likes to do things like "you have no knowledge of the forbidden school of Necromancy, and neither does your teacher, you can't pick that school.
If your DM does this, then a spell book can be an excuse to let you learn a spell on your spell list that the DM is not letting you learn otherwise.
I would also recommend using the opportunity to find a different DM, because that doesn't sound like any fun at all.
drag0n_77. he can be annoying. He is old school and has some ideas and prejudices left over from previous editions. Max score is 18 without powerful magic. Would not let me play a dragon sorceror when we started this game, nor a tiefling. But the newest character we added to the group is a tiefling dragon sorcerer. ;(
On the other hand, I have a ring of protection +3 because he thinks of it as normal, rather than unusual. And last session we made peacful contact with a drow mage, so I was given permission to learn some Necromancy spells. Have to roll an Arcana check each time, but so fare I have learned a few and will begin to learn the good stuff (Goal is Soul Cage).
Also have some items that should clearly be attuned but are not. Things tend to balance out.