I'm making a human(variant) draconic(fire) sorcerer for an upcoming Dragon Heist (then into Dungeon of the Mad Mage) campaign and I've trying to plan my cantrip selections and am having a hard time deciding on create bonfire. It wouldn't be an issue if cantrips could be swapped at later levels.
From what I've read, it's great at lower levels, but later the concentration cost becomes too high to use in combat. That makes sense, but I'm also thinking that because it doesn't require a material component that it could make a great surprise distraction/opener when used with Subtle Spell. I like that it's a targeted AoE with a range of 60ft and there would be no evidence that the spell originated from you when cast subtly.
I'm also thinking that the concentration cost is really only an issue if you tried to cast create bonfire after another concentration spell, ending it early. Because then you'd lost the potential rounds of effect for that spell slot. But if you started with a create bonfire, then who cares if concentration was broken on it. It's a cantrip and no "slot" is wasted imo.
What are your thoughts? Has anyone picked up this spell and found uses for it in combat/non-combat at higher levels?
IMHO create bonfire is one of those cantrips that rely on some creativity to get the most out of it. I've focused on the fact that the bonfire will ignite flammable objects nearby. You might drop concentration and loose the bonfire but the fires it starts keep burning. THOSE fires can be very useful.
Add Control Flames into the mix and you have two cantrips that can work very well together!
Ahh, I was just looking at Control Flames, that and Pyrotechnics for the fires after CF is extinguished. Hmm, well darn....my spell selection just got a little bit harder >.<
My opinion of Create Bonfire is it's a nasty battlefield control spell. It may not do that much direct damage, but if you locate it in the same spot that an opponent who is in melee with one of your friends, that opponent will take damage and then will have to decide between retreating and taking an attack of opportunity, at which point you stop concentrating on the spell so your friends can pursue their victim, or staying there and taking more damage from the bonfire.
It isn't my first choice of cantrip, but it is definitely on my list as a cantrip to use early and often in combat. Plus, unlike most other spells, it affects objects as well as affecting creatures!
I played a character with Create Bonfire and I found it underwealming in combat.
Remember you only draw AoO when they leave reach not when they move 5', so unless they are stuck in hallway or something forcing the enemy to move 5', doesn't usually mean much. That said if you are playing with the flanking rules, protecting your fighter's flank with a bonfire isn't terrible. There are other times when you might be able to force an archer out of cover, but it's very situational. It can also set fires, which is situationally good and bad.
The benefit of bonfire is that it's passive damage. Turn 1: you activate bonfire, enemy rolls for damage. Turn 2: they reroll their check and you use another attack cantrip.
Storywise bonfire is great because you always have a campfire as long as you're awake... elf just always have a fire (I believe Trance doesn't break concentration) This is of course nice in a game where you can travelling in cold environments.
As for starting fires that are distractions my favorite is Unseen Servant. It's invisible, lasts 1 hour, has range of 60 feet from you for that entire hour, and on it's list of commends is "lighting fires"
Ah, I see your point about AoOs. So, I'm thinking create bonfire would be best at choke points, maybe even at higher levels when you may not want to spend a higher spell slot on a wall of fire.
I like the idea of having an AoE cantrip for when I've quickened another spell and still want to hit a couple of targets. I don't believe unseen servant is a Sorcerer spell. Though, that would be hilarious to Subtle cast and then have an invisible entity using flint and steel to light some flammable tinder out of nowhere, haha.
I've liked using it and have found it effective, particularly in cold environments in which we are encountering creatures with vulnerability to fire damage. As others have said, I've also used it as a way to do things like burn through a closed gate of wooden posts on the far side of the room while we were fighting enemies on the other side; so allowing me to do two things at once (albeit nothing else that would break my concentration). I also like that you can be doing ongoing damage with the bonfire each round while casting other non-concentration spells, thus effectively allowing for double attacks, but once you get access to other spells at higher levels, there are better ways of doing this such as the heat metal spell (I was playing a druid, not a sorcerer), which can continue to damage a big enemy with heated metal armor and doesn't allow the enemy merely to walk out of the spell effect as with the bonfire (although that does also burn a spell slot; no pun intended ;) which the cantrip doesn't).
Ah, I see your point about AoOs. So, I'm thinking create bonfire would be best at choke points, maybe even at higher levels when you may not want to spend a higher spell slot on a wall of fire.
I like the idea of having an AoE cantrip for when I've quickened another spell and still want to hit a couple of targets. I don't believe unseen servant is a Sorcerer spell. Though, that would be hilarious to Subtle cast and then have an invisible entity using flint and steel to light some flammable tinder out of nowhere, haha.
It can be a great "area of denial" where many creature just wont go into, even if it does no damage. In the middle of a doorway is one, as most of them are only 5 feet wide.
And no, Unseen Servant isn't on the Sorcerer list. But the flip side is you could choose it as a Magic Initiate if you wanted, for any class. Because hey, everyone can use help doffing/donning armor, holding my beer/sword/etc, potion delivery to a friend, getting that thing on the desk without going into the room. Creative uses of it is a post in its own right.
I think it is good in campaigns with many encounters between rests, in such environments having a concentration cantrip is good. If you manage tp lock down enemies you can bonfire and then firebolt afterwards. After all, it deals fair instant damage too.
i would not pick it if you get to rest every 2-4 encounters.
My opinion of Create Bonfire is it's a nasty battlefield control spell. It may not do that much direct damage, but if you locate it in the same spot that an opponent who is in melee with one of your friends, that opponent will take damage and then will have to decide between retreating and taking an attack of opportunity, at which point you stop concentrating on the spell so your friends can pursue their victim, or staying there and taking more damage from the bonfire.
It isn't my first choice of cantrip, but it is definitely on my list as a cantrip to use early and often in combat. Plus, unlike most other spells, it affects objects as well as affecting creatures!
I could see this as being useful in a team-approach with a buddy using booming blade. They can stand in the fire and burn, or move and proc booming blade.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Forget about combat. Want to burn something...anything? Now imagine a 5x5 roaring fire as a starting point. That annoying house? That stupid ship? The ridiculous cart full of useless peasants and hay? Entire medieval cities were burnt to the ground by relatively modest starting fires. Think big.
Its a cantrip. Sustain it or start fires at multiple points, invest in marshmallows.
(You are a sorcerer, but if you were an infernal warlock with an invisible fire proof imp loaded with lamp oil...bonus!)
Forget about combat. Want to burn something...anything? Now imagine a 5x5 roaring fire as a starting point. That annoying house? That stupid ship? The ridiculous cart full of useless peasants and hay? Entire medieval cities were burnt to the ground by relatively modest starting fires. Think big.
Its a cantrip. Sustain it or start fires at multiple points, invest in marshmallows.
(You are a sorcerer, but if you were an infernal warlock with an invisible fire proof imp loaded with lamp oil...bonus!)
This is what I use it for. A cantrip for starting really big freaking fires (I'm 11th level so it does 3d8) is awesomely useful. I've used it for camping, cremations, property damage, and intimidating trolls I didn't feel like fighting.
You wanna make fire just appear wherever you want? Subtle spell metamagic gets rid of the verbal & somatic components.
My CoS group just finished a session last night where we were tracking down vampire spawn hiding out in one of the towns. We tracked some to a group of tents, surrounded them, and wanted to set the tents on fire to force them out. Even though we were leading town guards on the hunt, and working on behalf of the town, an argument started between a guard and one of the other players about whether that would be considered a criminal action, who would be liable for damages, etc.
Meanwhile, oh look the tent is suddenly on fire! How fortuitous! The vampires must've been burning something inside the tent! The Gods are with us this day!
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
A different way of looking at this cantrip, is it does about as much damage as any other damage cantrip without even using concentration. Add the concentration aspect and spell utility back into the equation and it seems pretty good.
NO!!!!!! Firebolt is much better. It deals more damage, and it is the same thing if you use it as utility. Create bonfire is not worth the cantrip spot. The utility option is pretty bad too, because if you are camping, it takes more than one minute to take a short or long rest, and you can only concentrate for a minute.
NO!!!!!! Firebolt is much better. It deals more damage, and it is the same thing if you use it as utility. Create bonfire is not worth the cantrip spot. The utility option is pretty bad too, because if you are camping, it takes more than one minute to take a short or long rest, and you can only concentrate for a minute.
Yeah buddy but, once you cast bonfire you can use concentration to maintain the effect AND spam Firebolt too.
I would say it's worth it. I have found this cantrip very, very useful, though I am a new player at a relatively low level so it just does 2d8.
I mainly use it for A) CC by way of either denying an attack route or forcing a creature out of its position, and B) metagaming purposes like distracting unaware enemies by starting randomly large fires (combined with druidcraft, I can flip it on and off like the hash slinging slasher). The damage is obviously nice for a cantrip used by a low-level druid, but that's not how I primarily use it.
In our campaign we're often fighting in close quarters, and before our barbarian moved away, having her box them into my fires was loads of fun, beyond obvious other CC uses.
Creatively using it to light flammable things like oil and firewood really extends the CC capability. In one larger-scale battle in the field in front of a city, I used it to light a maze of oil-soaked wood that introduced so much confusion and fog to the battlefield that it gave our army a significant advantage given they knew the layout of the maze.
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I'm making a human(variant) draconic(fire) sorcerer for an upcoming Dragon Heist (then into Dungeon of the Mad Mage) campaign and I've trying to plan my cantrip selections and am having a hard time deciding on create bonfire. It wouldn't be an issue if cantrips could be swapped at later levels.
From what I've read, it's great at lower levels, but later the concentration cost becomes too high to use in combat. That makes sense, but I'm also thinking that because it doesn't require a material component that it could make a great surprise distraction/opener when used with Subtle Spell. I like that it's a targeted AoE with a range of 60ft and there would be no evidence that the spell originated from you when cast subtly.
I'm also thinking that the concentration cost is really only an issue if you tried to cast create bonfire after another concentration spell, ending it early. Because then you'd lost the potential rounds of effect for that spell slot. But if you started with a create bonfire, then who cares if concentration was broken on it. It's a cantrip and no "slot" is wasted imo.
What are your thoughts? Has anyone picked up this spell and found uses for it in combat/non-combat at higher levels?
Thanks!
IMHO create bonfire is one of those cantrips that rely on some creativity to get the most out of it. I've focused on the fact that the bonfire will ignite flammable objects nearby. You might drop concentration and loose the bonfire but the fires it starts keep burning. THOSE fires can be very useful.
Add Control Flames into the mix and you have two cantrips that can work very well together!
Find me on Twitter: @OboeLauren
Ahh, I was just looking at Control Flames, that and Pyrotechnics for the fires after CF is extinguished. Hmm, well darn....my spell selection just got a little bit harder >.<
Thanks!
My opinion of Create Bonfire is it's a nasty battlefield control spell. It may not do that much direct damage, but if you locate it in the same spot that an opponent who is in melee with one of your friends, that opponent will take damage and then will have to decide between retreating and taking an attack of opportunity, at which point you stop concentrating on the spell so your friends can pursue their victim, or staying there and taking more damage from the bonfire.
It isn't my first choice of cantrip, but it is definitely on my list as a cantrip to use early and often in combat. Plus, unlike most other spells, it affects objects as well as affecting creatures!
Professional computer geek
I played a character with Create Bonfire and I found it underwealming in combat.
Remember you only draw AoO when they leave reach not when they move 5', so unless they are stuck in hallway or something forcing the enemy to move 5', doesn't usually mean much.
That said if you are playing with the flanking rules, protecting your fighter's flank with a bonfire isn't terrible. There are other times when you might be able to force an archer out of cover, but it's very situational.
It can also set fires, which is situationally good and bad.
The benefit of bonfire is that it's passive damage.
Turn 1: you activate bonfire, enemy rolls for damage.
Turn 2: they reroll their check and you use another attack cantrip.
Storywise bonfire is great because you always have a campfire as long as you're awake... elf just always have a fire (I believe Trance doesn't break concentration)
This is of course nice in a game where you can travelling in cold environments.
As for starting fires that are distractions my favorite is Unseen Servant. It's invisible, lasts 1 hour, has range of 60 feet from you for that entire hour, and on it's list of commends is "lighting fires"
Ah, I see your point about AoOs. So, I'm thinking create bonfire would be best at choke points, maybe even at higher levels when you may not want to spend a higher spell slot on a wall of fire.
I like the idea of having an AoE cantrip for when I've quickened another spell and still want to hit a couple of targets. I don't believe unseen servant is a Sorcerer spell. Though, that would be hilarious to Subtle cast and then have an invisible entity using flint and steel to light some flammable tinder out of nowhere, haha.
I've liked using it and have found it effective, particularly in cold environments in which we are encountering creatures with vulnerability to fire damage. As others have said, I've also used it as a way to do things like burn through a closed gate of wooden posts on the far side of the room while we were fighting enemies on the other side; so allowing me to do two things at once (albeit nothing else that would break my concentration). I also like that you can be doing ongoing damage with the bonfire each round while casting other non-concentration spells, thus effectively allowing for double attacks, but once you get access to other spells at higher levels, there are better ways of doing this such as the heat metal spell (I was playing a druid, not a sorcerer), which can continue to damage a big enemy with heated metal armor and doesn't allow the enemy merely to walk out of the spell effect as with the bonfire (although that does also burn a spell slot; no pun intended ;) which the cantrip doesn't).
Author of Fellozial's Ultimate Guide to Poison, The Primal Gith, and other forthcoming titles at DMs Guild
I was playing a druid, not a sorcerer.
Author of Fellozial's Ultimate Guide to Poison, The Primal Gith, and other forthcoming titles at DMs Guild
It can be a great "area of denial" where many creature just wont go into, even if it does no damage. In the middle of a doorway is one, as most of them are only 5 feet wide.
And no, Unseen Servant isn't on the Sorcerer list. But the flip side is you could choose it as a Magic Initiate if you wanted, for any class. Because hey, everyone can use help doffing/donning armor, holding my beer/sword/etc, potion delivery to a friend, getting that thing on the desk without going into the room. Creative uses of it is a post in its own right.
I think it is good in campaigns with many encounters between rests, in such environments having a concentration cantrip is good. If you manage tp lock down enemies you can bonfire and then firebolt afterwards. After all, it deals fair instant damage too.
i would not pick it if you get to rest every 2-4 encounters.
I could see this as being useful in a team-approach with a buddy using booming blade. They can stand in the fire and burn, or move and proc booming blade.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Forget about combat. Want to burn something...anything? Now imagine a 5x5 roaring fire as a starting point. That annoying house? That stupid ship? The ridiculous cart full of useless peasants and hay? Entire medieval cities were burnt to the ground by relatively modest starting fires. Think big.
Its a cantrip. Sustain it or start fires at multiple points, invest in marshmallows.
(You are a sorcerer, but if you were an infernal warlock with an invisible fire proof imp loaded with lamp oil...bonus!)
Abide.
This is what I use it for. A cantrip for starting really big freaking fires (I'm 11th level so it does 3d8) is awesomely useful. I've used it for camping, cremations, property damage, and intimidating trolls I didn't feel like fighting.
It's occasionally been useful in combat, too.
DICE FALL, EVERYONE ROCKS!
You wanna make fire just appear wherever you want? Subtle spell metamagic gets rid of the verbal & somatic components.
My CoS group just finished a session last night where we were tracking down vampire spawn hiding out in one of the towns. We tracked some to a group of tents, surrounded them, and wanted to set the tents on fire to force them out. Even though we were leading town guards on the hunt, and working on behalf of the town, an argument started between a guard and one of the other players about whether that would be considered a criminal action, who would be liable for damages, etc.
Meanwhile, oh look the tent is suddenly on fire! How fortuitous! The vampires must've been burning something inside the tent! The Gods are with us this day!
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I don’t take it as the fire has to be on the ground.
A different way of looking at this cantrip, is it does about as much damage as any other damage cantrip without even using concentration. Add the concentration aspect and spell utility back into the equation and it seems pretty good.
NO!!!!!! Firebolt is much better. It deals more damage, and it is the same thing if you use it as utility. Create bonfire is not worth the cantrip spot. The utility option is pretty bad too, because if you are camping, it takes more than one minute to take a short or long rest, and you can only concentrate for a minute.
Zargorth Dakzonar, High Elf Sorceror
Yeah buddy but, once you cast bonfire you can use concentration to maintain the effect AND spam Firebolt too.
I like the druid's Produce Flame better than either, but that's neither here nor there.
I would say it's worth it. I have found this cantrip very, very useful, though I am a new player at a relatively low level so it just does 2d8.
I mainly use it for A) CC by way of either denying an attack route or forcing a creature out of its position, and B) metagaming purposes like distracting unaware enemies by starting randomly large fires (combined with druidcraft, I can flip it on and off like the hash slinging slasher). The damage is obviously nice for a cantrip used by a low-level druid, but that's not how I primarily use it.
In our campaign we're often fighting in close quarters, and before our barbarian moved away, having her box them into my fires was loads of fun, beyond obvious other CC uses.
Creatively using it to light flammable things like oil and firewood really extends the CC capability. In one larger-scale battle in the field in front of a city, I used it to light a maze of oil-soaked wood that introduced so much confusion and fog to the battlefield that it gave our army a significant advantage given they knew the layout of the maze.