So, I have a warlock pact of the chain, (My first 2024 warlock) and am thoroughly disappointed with the options for familiars. the Imp and Sphinx of Wonder are great, of course, but the other ones are mediocre at best. A skeleton is a flavorful option, but in combat it is very weak. Same with a slaad tadpole and a sprite. Also, the quasit seems very weak. only 1d4 damage is very low even with the poison effect, especially compared to the Imp of the same CR. The pact of the chain is just disappointing for any subclass other than Fiend and Celestial, and I wish we had more options. Also I'm mad that Pact of the Talisman got scrapped, it was my go-to.

What exactly is the disappointment?  It is a familiar so there is a limit.  No 1-3 level PC is going to have a great combat oriented familiar.  That is why you use them for non combat, scouting and to take messages back and forth etc.

Because of the inherent combat ineffectiveness, the familiar should be used in non combat.  Cast a darkness spell and use the imp's magical sight to reposition and see with impunity.    The familiars act as great scouts.  There is one familiar that I believe gives you a d4 ability to change a d20 result.  There is more I know.

Quote from Character77006 >>

What exactly is the disappointment?  It is a familiar so there is a limit.  No 1-3 level PC is going to have a great combat oriented familiar.  That is why you use them for non combat, scouting and to take messages back and forth etc.

Because of the inherent combat ineffectiveness, the familiar should be used in non combat.  Cast a darkness spell and use the imp's magical sight to reposition and see with impunity.    The familiars act as great scouts.  There is one familiar that I believe gives you a d4 ability to change a d20 result.  There is more I know.

 Pact of the chain is meant to help in combat. All of the pacts are. But even with you example, my complaint is that the Imp and Sphinx of wonder are the only viable ones, in combat or otherwise. If my patron is some eldrich horror, a slaad tadpole will not be useful at all, and any other familiar doesn't make sense.

I think you are mixing things expecting to get unrealistic results.

Familiar are not suppose to be in combat because you can't control them in combat, pact of the chain allows you to swap your combat action and have your familiar attack.   So yes pact of the chain does help in combat.

But as you point out, you really don't want them in combat.  Basically, just because you can, does not mean you should.

Quote from StereotypicalDungeonMaster >>

So, I have a warlock pact of the chain, (My first 2024 warlock) and am thoroughly disappointed with the options for familiars. the Imp and Sphinx of Wonder are great, of course, but the other ones are mediocre at best. A skeleton is a flavorful option, but in combat it is very weak. Same with a slaad tadpole and a sprite. Also, the quasit seems very weak. only 1d4 damage is very low even with the poison effect, especially compared to the Imp of the same CR. The pact of the chain is just disappointing for any subclass other than Fiend and Celestial, and I wish we had more options. Also I'm mad that Pact of the Talisman got scrapped, it was my go-to.

Yeah its poorly designed, there are 2 clearly best options and then various stages of the rest. The sad part is the 2 good ones are too good at low levels a imp will outfight the fighter for a few levels. There are some exploits with pseudo dragon that can make it worth it, but yeah overall just 2 good ones.  But then eventually they all become useless in combat. And they are supposed to be useful in combat even if not powerhouses. 

Quote from MyDudeicus >>

Quote from StereotypicalDungeonMaster >>

So, I have a warlock pact of the chain, (My first 2024 warlock) and am thoroughly disappointed with the options for familiars. the Imp and Sphinx of Wonder are great, of course, but the other ones are mediocre at best. A skeleton is a flavorful option, but in combat it is very weak. Same with a slaad tadpole and a sprite. Also, the quasit seems very weak. only 1d4 damage is very low even with the poison effect, especially compared to the Imp of the same CR. The pact of the chain is just disappointing for any subclass other than Fiend and Celestial, and I wish we had more options. Also I'm mad that Pact of the Talisman got scrapped, it was my go-to.

 

Yeah its poorly designed, there are 2 clearly best options and then various stages of the rest. The sad part is the 2 good ones are too good at low levels a imp will outfight the fighter for a few levels. There are some exploits with pseudo dragon that can make it worth it, but yeah overall just 2 good ones.  But then eventually they all become useless in combat. And they are supposed to be useful in combat even if not powerhouses. 

 But, even at higher levels the Imp and Sphinx of Wonder can help in combat. Mainly the Sphinx, with it's guidance ability.

This is my problem with pact of the chain like sure it’s marginally better but I give up other pact boons to get a unbalanced badly designed familiar that is overpowered then sinks to uselessness

Warlock has an inherent problem, you either specialize or do a little of everything and basically fail.

If you want to excel in Magic use you do not pick up any pact of the blade invocations and then you can do a decent pact of the chain & spells.  That  option puts you in the rear to cast spells and let the front line protect you.  Or you ignore Pact of Chain and spells, concentrate on pact of the blade and be a lightly armored front line guy.

If you want to do multiple stuff, then chances are the pact of the chain will be underwhelming. 

But familiars as a combat force are underwhelming as well.  You compare your pact of chain to familiars of other classes and you have a huge edge over the others as a combat force.

You do realize that you can chose the form each time you summon, right? And with Pact of the Chain, you summon it as an action... just re-skin the shape to suit your Patron. Your eldritch horror patron isn't going to give you a celestial cat, but it might send one from the outer planes with a mass of tentacles for a face to support you this time, and next time it's a winged horror with a tail spike that happens to have the same statistics as a Psuedodragon...

I do agree that the familiar options are pretty lame overall - that seems like more of a system/design issue, however.

Frankly, I think that that they should have three or four stat blocks (combat focused, magical support, exploration/scouting, etc...) and leave the flavor to the DM/Player, along the lines of the new Summons spells... Leave the mundane familiars as-is, and call it a day.

Quote from EagerestSnow207 >>

This is my problem with pact of the chain like sure it’s marginally better but I give up other pact boons to get a unbalanced badly designed familiar that is overpowered then sinks to uselessness

Assuming you are correct, what do you actually want?  What class actually does that?  

Based on my knowledge, no familiar comes close what the Warlock gets.   They have the best familiars combat wise and the most variety for non combat both in types and by function.  

Lastly availability is superb, you can theoretically treat them as scout drones.  Every turn (not minutes, but every 6 seconds)  you can send in a familiar, it dies, and then send in another one, etc. etc.  (disclaimer it costs 10gp per incarnation, but that goes with anytime a familiar is created. just the speed of creation can burn through your purse very quickly)

Could you be complaining that nothing exists that can meet your expectations?

Personally, If I was playing a '24 Warlock, I'd probably be using (potentially suitably reskinned, or dressed in a full-body costume) Skeleton almost all the time. It's a human-sized, human-shaped servant that can use human clothing and equipment, if not actually being proficient in doing so.

That still buys a crapload of utility options.  Row the boat for us. Carry this backpack.   Put the kettle on.  Chop these vegetables. Get dinner started. Serve the guests. Stir the cauldron.   Give me a massage.  Give me a shave.  Draw a bath. Answer the door.  Carry this backpack. Go do the shopping. Wash the dishes. Do the washing. Do the ironing. Dust the library. Darn my socks. Check the mail. Take dictation. Scythe the lawn. Mop the study.  Hold the horses. Feed the dogs. Watch the baby.

Obviously it's not going to be that good at a lot of these things, particularly on the mental side, but some time spent training, the ability understand language, and most of these things happening in routine, non-stressful situations should be able to route around that in most cases.

Though, yeah, not that good of a combat option for actual direct fighting.

Quote from notovny >>

Personally, If I was playing a '24 Warlock, I'd probably be using (potentially suitably reskinned, or dressed in a full-body costume) Skeleton almost all the time. It's a human-sized, human-shaped servant that can use human clothing and equipment, if not actually being proficient in doing so.

That still buys a crapload of utility options.  Row the boat for us. Carry this backpack.   Put the kettle on.  Chop these vegetables. Get dinner started. Serve the guests. Stir the cauldron.   Give me a massage.  Give me a shave.  Draw a bath. Answer the door.  Carry this backpack. Go do the shopping. Wash the dishes. Do the washing. Do the ironing. Dust the library. Darn my socks. Check the mail. Take dictation. Scythe the lawn. Mop the study.  Hold the horses. Feed the dogs. Watch the baby.

Obviously it's not going to be that good at a lot of these things, particularly on the mental side, but some time spent training, the ability understand language, and most of these things happening in routine, non-stressful situations should be able to route around that in most cases.

Though, yeah, not that good of a combat option for actual direct fighting.

 

 

 I didnt think using a skeleton to carry gear.