I’m playing ToA with some friends. My character, who was a warlock, got insta killed by a random encounter, yay. If anyone has suggestions of ideas for a melee wizard it would be much appreciated.
Bladesinger. If this is an AL game then you need to be an Elf. You'll need a one handed weapon, at that point Rapier is optimized because it's 1d8 and finesse. Focus on Dex and Int.
I know some people talk about taking 1-3 levels of Fighter. It could be worth it to start level 1 as Fighter for the extra HP. Take Dueling. But keep in mind ToA is levels ~1-9, so any multiclass lowers your ultimate spell level.
Your most important stats are Int/Dex/Con. So work around whatever you from that.
In my opinion, it depends on how much melee or caster you plan to go. If you want really high spell DC and use Cantrips all the time then you'll want Int 16. If you want to be swashbuckling more then you'll want Dex 16, and your Int can be 14 without much of a problem. Look for more buff spells that don't require a DC and it won't matter. (Shadow Blade is amazing as a 2nd lvl spell) You'll probably save your 1st level spells on Shield, for the +5 AC instead of attacks, although the occasional Thunderwave is amazing.
You can probably worry less about optimization of numbers and what does cool things. But: Elf (High/Sea/Shadar-kai/Eladrin), Feral Tiefling, Gensai (Air/Fire), Gnome (any), Halfing (Stout), and Human. all give good stat bumps to the things you care about. The specials abilities each give and the flavor you want is very open.
There are some good guides out there for bladesingers, and I find them fun.
I'm also trying a dwarf Storm sorcerer who early on is kind of like this - with armor and battleaxe proficiency from the start...eventually his magic will take over. I like the idea of a dwarf warrior who suddenly finds magic and grudgingly changes his role over time. One level in fighter to starts gives you heavy armor, which you kind of need if you are going to go strength fighter instead. This allows to you go strength and Int (Charisma in the case of sorcerer).
With the Bladesinger and wizard spell list though I prefer to stay with the same class and not multi - class out just because the spell list is so good and the class benefits outweigh any multi class gain.
A player in my current game rolled up a hobgoblin wizard of the Abjuration school, and between the racial +2 Con boost and the Arcane Ward school feature, he's a damn BEAST. Went toe-to-toe with a hobgoblin captain and was able to absorb an obscene amount of damage while dealing major damage with his shadow blade. So that's a build to consider if there are no racial restrictions on your character.
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"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
What are your thoughts on multiclassing? Heavy armor is great defense (so long as you stay hydrated in ToA) and I think the idea of a wizard wearing armor is fun.
Starting with a level in fighter gives you heavy armor and proficiency in CON saves. Alternatively, you could take a level in cleric (war, storm, forge, or life domains) for heavy armor proficiency. Yes, you need STR (unless you go dwarf) and some WIS but you won't fall behind in spell slots by taking a level in a caster class. Forge domain clerics can give themselves +1 armor with their first level feature. Just something to think about.
For race, some of the native races of Chult may be interesting. Lizardfolk and the specific dwarves of the region would play well as melee characters. Tabaxi, kenku, and arakocra might be fun if you want to go dex-based. Tortle could also be fun if you don't want to bother with armor and your DM allows it.
Personally I'm not sure I think Fighter nets much of a gain for a Wizard.
If you want to go melee you either want a single melee spell attack like Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade to make up for the lack of the Extra Attack feature, or you want the Extra Attack Feature.
If you want the Extra Attack feature then you *have* to go Bladesinger, which already nets you light armor and a single melee proficiency. In addition Bladesingers can't wear anything heavier then light or their features don't work, so the added proficiency from Fighter aren't productive in addition to losing a spell level. That said it does net Second Wind and Fighting Style (either Dueling or Defense, the others preclude Bladesinger)
If you don't want to go Bladesinger, then Fighter offers a lot more but if you have the WIS points to spare I think Cleric offers much more (healing magic as well as other utility magic like Purify Food and Drink or Create Water). That said 2 levels of Fighter gets Action Surge, which could be double Fireball, but you've also lost 2 spell levels. At least Cleric adds to your total spell capacity.
My character in ToA was 1st lvl Knowledge Cleric of Savras, the rest of the way Abjuration Wizard. He was not a melee character (other then had Shocking Grasp), but I was often IN melee using the Dodge Action tanking for the party with my 18 AC (Scale mail, +2 Dex, and Shield) with the Shield Spell held in reserve. I don't think Heavy Armor is that worth pushing for. It only has marginally better AC then Medium Armor if you have 14 Dex. You won't find upgrades in Chult.
A one level dip into fighter would give you a fighting style, CON save (very handy for concentration saves) and Action Surge. Action Surge is especially notable for allowing you to cast your Concentration buff before throwing yourself into fighting range and not losing a turn. So those might be worthwhile. Cleric is pretty terrible, imho, for a melee wizard. I have to agree with Full Metal Bunny about race options - your DEX and INT scores are massively important as a 'singer.
Most bladesinger guides I've seen tend to feel that being in melee is silly, and instead you want to be a pseudo-war wizard. So, let me talk a bit about what an actual melee focused bladesinger was like for me.
Curiously, the overwhelming majority of melee-wizard buffs are 1 to 4 (Tenser's Transformation and some level 9 spells are the only exceptions I'm aware of), presumably as a side effect of one-third casters like Path of the Elements, Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster. Furthermore, there's a limited number of spells you can actually use for the bladesinger - Concentration is evil that way. So, we're looking at the majority of your spells revolving around Shield, Element Absorption, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Fire Shield, Counterspell and one Concentration spell of your choice (Blur, Haste, Improved Invisibility, Stone Skin, Fly and Shadow Blade are the most common options). In any case, this makes your Concentration very important to maintain, so CON save proficiency and War Caster are very important to a melee wizard. Concentration buffs take an action to cast and only last one minute, so you need to make sure its worth the time invested to use. Without these higher level Concentration spells, you'll probably be better off as an Eldritch Knight - higher damage potential, more hp, better ac and more stats.
Once you get Fire Shield at level 7 wizard, your options to boost your melee ability as a wizard is pretty much non existent. You'll either be upcasting other spells or fall back to the standard wizard-artillery options. Of course, given that ToA ends around level 10, this isn't as big of a deal for you. Curiously, despite being in the same book as Bladesinger, Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade are less useful for a Bladesinger after you get Extra Attack, since its hard to do an OA and making two attacks is generally a better option, though an Eldritch Knight can rock said cantrips with their level 7 ability.
One last note about the bladesinger. Keep in mind that you get two bladesong uses per short rest, so you're going to have to focus a bit on resource management during long stretches. Which might cause you to feel like you should start acting like an artillery wizard again. If that bothers you, and you don't mind being restricted to level 2 and below spells, give serious thought to going Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster or Path of the Elements. The latter's not quite a wizard, but it has a similar feeling to the former two. They give you the feeling of magic but without the potentially crippling dependence on Concentration effects.
Start 1 level fighter, 6 levels singer, take second level of fighter, then singer till the end.
Once you have haste your starting combat routine should be, bonus action kicking on bladesinging casting haste with your actual action, rush attackers with your 80 move (90 if wood elf) take your two attacks with the attack action from haste. Laugh as they attempt to hit your 20+ AC sheild if needed. Keep attacking until your party catches up, if you need to retreat booming blade + disengage maybe drop caltrops if your inclined. If you need to be tanky for a round use your action to dodge and the haste action to attack.
Honestly singers are lots of fun however you play them but always take advantage of your mobility to be out of range of save or suck spells (or be prepared to counter spell instead of sheilding) and to thin out opponents by forcing them to chase you as they are unlikely to have line of sight for bows in the jungle.
This works really well if your party has a lot of fast moving characters like monks who can support a hit and run type of strategy, hell even just pulling the encounter to your prepared waiting party could be fun.
I haven't fully investigated the idea of "melee wizard" but... mountain dwarf gets warhammer or battle axe etc and medium armor and +2 str, these coupled with a cantrip like green flame blade or booming blade work well together. if you pick abjuration the ward should help mitigate the damage other wizards would not be able to stand up to.
I will say, this is not a replacement for a front line fighter, but it does give you a "full" wizard that does not need to retreat to the safety of the rear.
here is Niamh Ironbrew daughter of the famous ironbrew clan. the black sheep of the clan having gone on to masonry and achieving great success in that trade, (iron brew clan is know for breweries) she has also taken to the somewhat undwarflike arcane arts in pursuit of improved defense of dwarfholm and the kingdom of Thorin. she is a tough as nails lady, an incredibly talented Mason, and a wizard famous for her protective spells. she works as a defense consultant and is a guildmistress of the stonemasons despite her families fortune in the brewing industry.
high elf, fighter(battle master)8, rogue(assassin)6, wizard(transmutation)6, dexterity, intelligence focus. weapon is finesse rapier or scimitar, dual weild, defensive dualist, war caster, actor, and tavern brawler. the premise essentially being fighter for fancy tactics, rogue for big dirty hits and wizard for disguise and utility. this character was something I made for neverwinter nights... before the blade bard (college of swords) was a thing. still it can be fun to synergize 3 classes to make a bad butt swashbuckler ninja dude
If you have Volo's and Xanathar's, Hobgoblin War wizard is a neat combo. Hobgoblin gives you free armor and weapon proficiency, war wizard gives you arcane deflection, basically just a bonus to AC and saving throws. Take Green flame blade as one of your cantrips, skip mage armor since you'll be wearing studded leather anyway, and when you get higher-level magic, take abjuration first. Anything that gives you resistance to damage, or give attacks against you disadvantage will be useful. Mirror image serves a similar purpose, and misty step can be used in a number of strategic ways, especially if you use flanking. Haste and Slow are both very useful, for very different reasons. I've actually never run a bladesinger, mainly because I never liked playing elves, but I ran this build, and it works really well if you have at least one party member who's good at moving enemies around.
I was planning on making a hobgoblin wizard kinda like gandalf where he wacks people with a staff and long sword. I imagine cthulu said what you need to know about that.
I am playing a human wizard now. took 1 level in fighter and wizard since. Worked on mostly evocation spell, but instead went utility and protection spells.
I also took the magic initiate feat at first as a human variant to grab a few extra spells (shield of faith was my 1st level spell - I then did not take alarm as I had a in combat way to kick off arcane ward on round 1) and war caster at 5th when wizard hit 4th level and I was able to choose a feat.
I like that, the magic initiate that leads to a career in wizardry.
I do want to point out that shield of father is a cleric spell and as such, raises some tough questions.
from the magic initiate feat:
Your spellcasting ability for these spells depends on the class you chose: Charisma for bard, sorcerer, or warlock; Wisdom for cleric or druid: or Intelligence for wizard.
so you see, the spell shield of faith requires magic initiate to of the cleric type. The cantrips must also be of that type.
the questions I have are these:
did you intend to have a cleric flavour?
are you stacking wisdom at all?
the RAW seems to only say "abjuration" spell to activate arcane ward, but what is the RAI ?considering it specifically mentions intelligence and wizard level.
cheers
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I’m playing ToA with some friends. My character, who was a warlock, got insta killed by a random encounter, yay. If anyone has suggestions of ideas for a melee wizard it would be much appreciated.
Bladesinger. If this is an AL game then you need to be an Elf.
You'll need a one handed weapon, at that point Rapier is optimized because it's 1d8 and finesse.
Focus on Dex and Int.
I know some people talk about taking 1-3 levels of Fighter. It could be worth it to start level 1 as Fighter for the extra HP. Take Dueling.
But keep in mind ToA is levels ~1-9, so any multiclass lowers your ultimate spell level.
I'm not playing AL so I can use any race, which would you recommend
Your most important stats are Int/Dex/Con.
So work around whatever you from that.
In my opinion, it depends on how much melee or caster you plan to go.
If you want really high spell DC and use Cantrips all the time then you'll want Int 16.
If you want to be swashbuckling more then you'll want Dex 16, and your Int can be 14 without much of a problem. Look for more buff spells that don't require a DC and it won't matter. (Shadow Blade is amazing as a 2nd lvl spell)
You'll probably save your 1st level spells on Shield, for the +5 AC instead of attacks, although the occasional Thunderwave is amazing.
You can probably worry less about optimization of numbers and what does cool things.
But: Elf (High/Sea/Shadar-kai/Eladrin), Feral Tiefling, Gensai (Air/Fire), Gnome (any), Halfing (Stout), and Human. all give good stat bumps to the things you care about. The specials abilities each give and the flavor you want is very open.
There are some good guides out there for bladesingers, and I find them fun.
I'm also trying a dwarf Storm sorcerer who early on is kind of like this - with armor and battleaxe proficiency from the start...eventually his magic will take over. I like the idea of a dwarf warrior who suddenly finds magic and grudgingly changes his role over time. One level in fighter to starts gives you heavy armor, which you kind of need if you are going to go strength fighter instead. This allows to you go strength and Int (Charisma in the case of sorcerer).
With the Bladesinger and wizard spell list though I prefer to stay with the same class and not multi - class out just because the spell list is so good and the class benefits outweigh any multi class gain.
A player in my current game rolled up a hobgoblin wizard of the Abjuration school, and between the racial +2 Con boost and the Arcane Ward school feature, he's a damn BEAST. Went toe-to-toe with a hobgoblin captain and was able to absorb an obscene amount of damage while dealing major damage with his shadow blade. So that's a build to consider if there are no racial restrictions on your character.
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
What are your thoughts on multiclassing? Heavy armor is great defense (so long as you stay hydrated in ToA) and I think the idea of a wizard wearing armor is fun.
Starting with a level in fighter gives you heavy armor and proficiency in CON saves. Alternatively, you could take a level in cleric (war, storm, forge, or life domains) for heavy armor proficiency. Yes, you need STR (unless you go dwarf) and some WIS but you won't fall behind in spell slots by taking a level in a caster class. Forge domain clerics can give themselves +1 armor with their first level feature. Just something to think about.
For race, some of the native races of Chult may be interesting. Lizardfolk and the specific dwarves of the region would play well as melee characters. Tabaxi, kenku, and arakocra might be fun if you want to go dex-based. Tortle could also be fun if you don't want to bother with armor and your DM allows it.
Personally I'm not sure I think Fighter nets much of a gain for a Wizard.
If you want to go melee you either want a single melee spell attack like Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade to make up for the lack of the Extra Attack feature, or you want the Extra Attack Feature.
If you want the Extra Attack feature then you *have* to go Bladesinger, which already nets you light armor and a single melee proficiency. In addition Bladesingers can't wear anything heavier then light or their features don't work, so the added proficiency from Fighter aren't productive in addition to losing a spell level. That said it does net Second Wind and Fighting Style (either Dueling or Defense, the others preclude Bladesinger)
If you don't want to go Bladesinger, then Fighter offers a lot more but if you have the WIS points to spare I think Cleric offers much more (healing magic as well as other utility magic like Purify Food and Drink or Create Water). That said 2 levels of Fighter gets Action Surge, which could be double Fireball, but you've also lost 2 spell levels. At least Cleric adds to your total spell capacity.
My character in ToA was 1st lvl Knowledge Cleric of Savras, the rest of the way Abjuration Wizard. He was not a melee character (other then had Shocking Grasp), but I was often IN melee using the Dodge Action tanking for the party with my 18 AC (Scale mail, +2 Dex, and Shield) with the Shield Spell held in reserve.
I don't think Heavy Armor is that worth pushing for. It only has marginally better AC then Medium Armor if you have 14 Dex. You won't find upgrades in Chult.
A one level dip into fighter would give you a fighting style, CON save (very handy for concentration saves) and Action Surge. Action Surge is especially notable for allowing you to cast your Concentration buff before throwing yourself into fighting range and not losing a turn. So those might be worthwhile. Cleric is pretty terrible, imho, for a melee wizard. I have to agree with Full Metal Bunny about race options - your DEX and INT scores are massively important as a 'singer.
Most bladesinger guides I've seen tend to feel that being in melee is silly, and instead you want to be a pseudo-war wizard. So, let me talk a bit about what an actual melee focused bladesinger was like for me.
Curiously, the overwhelming majority of melee-wizard buffs are 1 to 4 (Tenser's Transformation and some level 9 spells are the only exceptions I'm aware of), presumably as a side effect of one-third casters like Path of the Elements, Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster. Furthermore, there's a limited number of spells you can actually use for the bladesinger - Concentration is evil that way. So, we're looking at the majority of your spells revolving around Shield, Element Absorption, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Fire Shield, Counterspell and one Concentration spell of your choice (Blur, Haste, Improved Invisibility, Stone Skin, Fly and Shadow Blade are the most common options). In any case, this makes your Concentration very important to maintain, so CON save proficiency and War Caster are very important to a melee wizard. Concentration buffs take an action to cast and only last one minute, so you need to make sure its worth the time invested to use. Without these higher level Concentration spells, you'll probably be better off as an Eldritch Knight - higher damage potential, more hp, better ac and more stats.
Once you get Fire Shield at level 7 wizard, your options to boost your melee ability as a wizard is pretty much non existent. You'll either be upcasting other spells or fall back to the standard wizard-artillery options. Of course, given that ToA ends around level 10, this isn't as big of a deal for you. Curiously, despite being in the same book as Bladesinger, Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade are less useful for a Bladesinger after you get Extra Attack, since its hard to do an OA and making two attacks is generally a better option, though an Eldritch Knight can rock said cantrips with their level 7 ability.
One last note about the bladesinger. Keep in mind that you get two bladesong uses per short rest, so you're going to have to focus a bit on resource management during long stretches. Which might cause you to feel like you should start acting like an artillery wizard again. If that bothers you, and you don't mind being restricted to level 2 and below spells, give serious thought to going Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster or Path of the Elements. The latter's not quite a wizard, but it has a similar feeling to the former two. They give you the feeling of magic but without the potentially crippling dependence on Concentration effects.
Start 1 level fighter, 6 levels singer, take second level of fighter, then singer till the end.
Once you have haste your starting combat routine should be, bonus action kicking on bladesinging casting haste with your actual action, rush attackers with your 80 move (90 if wood elf) take your two attacks with the attack action from haste. Laugh as they attempt to hit your 20+ AC sheild if needed. Keep attacking until your party catches up, if you need to retreat booming blade + disengage maybe drop caltrops if your inclined. If you need to be tanky for a round use your action to dodge and the haste action to attack.
Honestly singers are lots of fun however you play them but always take advantage of your mobility to be out of range of save or suck spells (or be prepared to counter spell instead of sheilding) and to thin out opponents by forcing them to chase you as they are unlikely to have line of sight for bows in the jungle.
This works really well if your party has a lot of fast moving characters like monks who can support a hit and run type of strategy, hell even just pulling the encounter to your prepared waiting party could be fun.
Hope I helped with some ideas 😉
Thanks for the ideas
I haven't fully investigated the idea of "melee wizard" but... mountain dwarf gets warhammer or battle axe etc and medium armor and +2 str, these coupled with a cantrip like green flame blade or booming blade work well together. if you pick abjuration the ward should help mitigate the damage other wizards would not be able to stand up to.
I will say, this is not a replacement for a front line fighter, but it does give you a "full" wizard that does not need to retreat to the safety of the rear.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
Thanks, I like the idea, what feats would you reccomend
here is Niamh Ironbrew daughter of the famous ironbrew clan. the black sheep of the clan having gone on to masonry and achieving great success in that trade, (iron brew clan is know for breweries) she has also taken to the somewhat undwarflike arcane arts in pursuit of improved defense of dwarfholm and the kingdom of Thorin. she is a tough as nails lady, an incredibly talented Mason, and a wizard famous for her protective spells. she works as a defense consultant and is a guildmistress of the stonemasons despite her families fortune in the brewing industry.
https://ddb.ac/characters/814741/wXQPZR
in short,
feats:
dwarven fortitude, durability, war caster, resilience (con), and, although I stand by linguist, toughness may be a better pick for "optimization".
hope you like
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Are there any other races this could work with, or and multiclassing ideas you have
high elf, fighter(battle master)8, rogue(assassin)6, wizard(transmutation)6, dexterity, intelligence focus. weapon is finesse rapier or scimitar, dual weild, defensive dualist, war caster, actor, and tavern brawler. the premise essentially being fighter for fancy tactics, rogue for big dirty hits and wizard for disguise and utility. this character was something I made for neverwinter nights... before the blade bard (college of swords) was a thing. still it can be fun to synergize 3 classes to make a bad butt swashbuckler ninja dude
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
If you have Volo's and Xanathar's, Hobgoblin War wizard is a neat combo. Hobgoblin gives you free armor and weapon proficiency, war wizard gives you arcane deflection, basically just a bonus to AC and saving throws. Take Green flame blade as one of your cantrips, skip mage armor since you'll be wearing studded leather anyway, and when you get higher-level magic, take abjuration first. Anything that gives you resistance to damage, or give attacks against you disadvantage will be useful. Mirror image serves a similar purpose, and misty step can be used in a number of strategic ways, especially if you use flanking. Haste and Slow are both very useful, for very different reasons. I've actually never run a bladesinger, mainly because I never liked playing elves, but I ran this build, and it works really well if you have at least one party member who's good at moving enemies around.
I was planning on making a hobgoblin wizard kinda like gandalf where he wacks people with a staff and long sword. I imagine cthulu said what you need to know about that.
I am playing a human wizard now. took 1 level in fighter and wizard since. Worked on mostly evocation spell, but instead went utility and protection spells.
I also took the magic initiate feat at first as a human variant to grab a few extra spells (shield of faith was my 1st level spell - I then did not take alarm as I had a in combat way to kick off arcane ward on round 1) and war caster at 5th when wizard hit 4th level and I was able to choose a feat.
I like that, the magic initiate that leads to a career in wizardry.
I do want to point out that shield of father is a cleric spell and as such, raises some tough questions.
from the magic initiate feat:
so you see, the spell shield of faith requires magic initiate to of the cleric type. The cantrips must also be of that type.
the questions I have are these:
did you intend to have a cleric flavour?
are you stacking wisdom at all?
the RAW seems to only say "abjuration" spell to activate arcane ward, but what is the RAI ?considering it specifically mentions intelligence and wizard level.
cheers
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.