The same can be said for prestidigitation or minor illusion etc.
But prestidigitation and minor illusion have very limited effectiveness in combat. They basically do nothing. It is too powerful to be a cantrip.
Neither does this outside overly contrived scenarios. Your argument is basically saying we found out the ogre is deathly afraid of purple so prestidigitation's ability to color our clothes is OP. That is how rare this will come in handy in combat where any simple mundane activity could be used just as easily.
It may not be a cantrip, though a couple minor changes like adding a verbal might make it one easily enough but it sure as heck isn't 2nd level material either. Its weak for a utility level 1 spell but strong for a utility cantrip.
No, ogres being scared of purple is much more rare than needing to sneak on object somewhere. This is much more useful than any existing cantrip, and probably more useful than most 1st level spells. If you want to change it to a cantrip in your games, and your players don't know the exploits with it, you're free to do so, but I stand by my sentiment that extradimensional spaces shouldn't be free.
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Look at it this way. Earthbind, a very situational spell and Continual Flame, a spell that just does what a torch does but forever and cost 50gp per casting, are both 2nd level. Wristpocket has multiple uses, can be cast as a ritual if you need to save that slot, and since it has no Verbal or Material components, it is easy to conceal. Whilst it would help a thief the most, it has a massive variety of uses and is too powerful for a cantrip. It would make a very good 1st level spell, and right now makes a viable 2nd level spell. whilst not the most amazing and powerful spell in the world, it is versatile and with creativity can be put to use with great effect. My only gripe is that it can't upcast, by increasing the weight you can conceal, but then again, that would be way too powerful at higher levels.
Earthbind and Continual Flame are also spells literally no one ever takes. I have never once seen or heard of someone using Earthbind, and Continual Flame is something clerics prepare on downtime days when they want to add some fluff to an item.
Wristpocket has no damn business being a second-level spell, especially with a duration limitation AND a concentration requirement. First-level, okay. I can understand not wanting to open the door to Wristpocket as a cantrip. But the spell is not worth more than first level when it's hedged around with a dozen heavy restrictions the way it is, especially when the only class that would ever conceivably take it as a normal, typical spell - Arcane Tricksters - can only do so at eighth level at the cost of one of their three precious 'free' spells.
Wristpocket should be level one, and I don't honestly know if it should retain its concentration requirement. The whole "you can hide eighty pounds of stuff!" argument relies on the use of higher-level spells and once-a-day cooldowns, much of which a typical party will not have. The majority of time, Wristpocket says "hide something trivial for one hour at the cost of a second-level slot you probably don't have to spare and the inability to cast other spells until you let go of the thing".
So... are people also upset and disappointed with the limitations of the 4th level spell "Leomund's Secret Chest"? Because most of these reasons for why wristpocket shouldnt be a 2nd level spell essentially seem to be advocating for a free/low cost version of a FOURTH level spell.
Wristpocket already has some advantages over Secret Chest, chiefly that there is no risk of the item being lost forever and no incredibly expensive material components.
I admit i have some qualms about EGtWM, especially the spells presented, but wristpocket is about perfectly placed and balanced.
As someone pointed out - Rope Trick is 2nd level. Rope Trick also creates an extra dimensional pocket, which also lasts only an hour. But Rope Trick can hold up to 8 medium sized people in that pocket (who subsequently have an invisible window back into this dimension) - and it doesn't require concentration. Wristpocket should be 1st level.
Earth bind is a good worthwhile spell to take but never memorize. Instead make a scroll or put it in a into a ring of spell storing. Continual Flame is a GREAT spell to learn and only cast in out of combat time. I.e. it makes a lot of sense for clerics and wizards to have a bag full of continual flames. At the very least they trade items, but also make great items to throw in dark places.
Wrist pocket vs Rope Trick you trade the VSM for just a S. Still, you have convinced me, Wrist Pocket should be a 1st level spell unless they make it a bonus action to cast and put stuff in/out.
As someone pointed out - Rope Trick is 2nd level. Rope Trick also creates an extra dimensional pocket, which also lasts only an hour. But Rope Trick can hold up to 8 medium sized people in that pocket (who subsequently have an invisible window back into this dimension) - and it doesn't require concentration. Wristpocket should be 1st level.
They both create extradimensional spaces, but for different purposes. You can't really hide a magic weapon in a rope trick spell, can you?
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You can hide 8 people in a rope trick spell - I assume they don't have to leave their magic items outside the door :D
You do imply a good feature of Wristpocket - in that it is mobile. That said - you're effectively creating Sleight of Hand+
I wouldn't make it a cantrip - it just seems weak for a 2nd level spell - especially when you compare it against other spells with similar mechanics. I do wonder if the spell level was jiggered in order to have a balance of numbers of spells available at each level for a new school of magic - to provide balance when compared to other schools.
That said - I'd be happy to defer to my DM for whatever level they chose to let Wristpocket lay at - RAW has been good for me.
So... are people also upset and disappointed with the limitations of the 4th level spell "Leomund's Secret Chest"? Because most of these reasons for why wristpocket shouldnt be a 2nd level spell essentially seem to be advocating for a free/low cost version of a FOURTH level spell.
Wristpocket already has some advantages over Secret Chest, chiefly that there is no risk of the item being lost forever and no incredibly expensive material components.
I admit i have some qualms about EGtWM, especially the spells presented, but wristpocket is about perfectly placed and balanced.
Secret Chest is effectively permanent, technically you recast it every 2 months to be safe. All permanent like spells are higher level or come with a costly component or both than they normally would be for setting reasons. I rarely see a player take secret chest, its a pretty narrow range of campaigns where it comes in useful. It probably could or should be a lower level, but its always been 4e.
You’ve also got great options opposite the thief comments-making something of up to 5 pounds appear out of nowhere has uses - sword, crossbow, poison , poisoned dagger, acid,, ace of hearts, a real flower, key, 50 feet of silk rope, a spell scroll for some other wizard, a metal file.
When you look at the RP potential , and if you play scenarios where everyone isn’t always decked out with armor, loaded with weapons, and carrying around their 150 pounds of gear (which I always thought was dumb), it has a ton of potential. It’s utility and RP-especially in city environments
Just going to add, look up the spell 'Instant Summons'. it's sixth level and has a material component that costs 1000gp. It summons a max 10 pound object that has dimensions of no larger than 6ft to your hand from anywhere. Obviously that is powerful since it is sixth level. However, Wristpocket lets you do this without the costly components, lets you keep the object safe in a demiplane, whilst the object you summon in Instant Summons can be kept from you. Instant Summons does last until dispelled, but so long as you have 10 minutes or the 2nd level spell slot , which is very low cost compared to a 1000gp sapphire and/or a sixth level slot, you can keep Wristpocket up. Sure the object you can have is half the weight, but that isn't too much of an issue.
And yet in 40 years of D&D I have never seen a player bother with instant summons. And this includes the good old days where by level 10 you have 400,000 GP. And again all permanent style spells in the game have severe cost restrictions to stop people from slapping the spell on everything. Its not about game balance but setting.
I'll agree with the setting part, because obviously dunamancy doesn't exist in every world, and in a combat heavy dungeon crawl Wristpocket won't help at all, but in games with more RP segments it cane be fun, useful and just thematic and add to the RP. You just have to get creative. Its like the Artificer's Magical Tinkering. I used to think it was bad, but when I realised I just wasn't being creative enough, then it became a much better feature, for me anyway.
So I was going on this inner monologue/tangent on why Wristpocket should be a cantrip. But then I realized that you could theoretically just poof a bag holding up to 5 pounds worth of stuff into the demiplane. That or it would just poof the bag. And if it would just poof the bag, then it should be a cantrip with VS or SM components with a duration of 10 minutes. But if it would poof the everything, then it should definitely be 1st Level due to the restrictions in place.
if the issue with wristpocket being a cantrip is that it could be useful for combat/time-sensitive situations, change the casting time. if you worry that it will be abused for stealing from shopkeepers, add a verbal/somatic component.
i'm currently allowing it as a cantrip with the following exceptions: it has a casting time of 1 minute and requires v/s/m (a pinch of glass dust) components. i also rule the one object and only 5 lbs or under very strictly. eg. one coin is one object
As far as as the bomb scenario, does it state that time passes on the plane normally? could you send it to a plane where 1 hour on the material plane is only 30 seconds on that plane? or 1 hour on the material plane is 100 years
As far as as the bomb scenario, does it state that time passes on the plane normally? could you send it to a plane where 1 hour on the material plane is only 30 seconds on that plane? or 1 hour on the material plane is 100 years
That's not how demiplanes work. With a few exceptions (none listed in the rules), demiplanes have time flow normally.
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I get your argument re: extra dimensional space, but i would actually say that—using your example of Rope Trick—this should be 1st level.
While they both create extra dimensional space, the space created by this is MUCH smaller than rope trick despite it having the same duration.
While this only has a somatic component only, i don’t think that the loss of V & M components puts it on the same level as a spell that creates an extra dimensional space that fits up to 8 creatures for the same amount of time.
if the issue with wristpocket being a cantrip is that it could be useful for combat/time-sensitive situations, change the casting time. if you worry that it will be abused for stealing from shopkeepers, add a verbal/somatic component.
i'm currently allowing it as a cantrip with the following exceptions: it has a casting time of 1 minute and requires v/s/m (a pinch of glass dust) components. i also rule the one object and only 5 lbs or under very strictly. eg. one coin is one object
This completely fixes the spell as a cantrip.
I personally love the original version of the spell as a way for wizards to secure Spell-books.
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Neither does this outside overly contrived scenarios. Your argument is basically saying we found out the ogre is deathly afraid of purple so prestidigitation's ability to color our clothes is OP. That is how rare this will come in handy in combat where any simple mundane activity could be used just as easily.
It may not be a cantrip, though a couple minor changes like adding a verbal might make it one easily enough but it sure as heck isn't 2nd level material either. Its weak for a utility level 1 spell but strong for a utility cantrip.
No, ogres being scared of purple is much more rare than needing to sneak on object somewhere. This is much more useful than any existing cantrip, and probably more useful than most 1st level spells. If you want to change it to a cantrip in your games, and your players don't know the exploits with it, you're free to do so, but I stand by my sentiment that extradimensional spaces shouldn't be free.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Look at it this way. Earthbind, a very situational spell and Continual Flame, a spell that just does what a torch does but forever and cost 50gp per casting, are both 2nd level. Wristpocket has multiple uses, can be cast as a ritual if you need to save that slot, and since it has no Verbal or Material components, it is easy to conceal. Whilst it would help a thief the most, it has a massive variety of uses and is too powerful for a cantrip. It would make a very good 1st level spell, and right now makes a viable 2nd level spell. whilst not the most amazing and powerful spell in the world, it is versatile and with creativity can be put to use with great effect. My only gripe is that it can't upcast, by increasing the weight you can conceal, but then again, that would be way too powerful at higher levels.
Earthbind and Continual Flame are also spells literally no one ever takes. I have never once seen or heard of someone using Earthbind, and Continual Flame is something clerics prepare on downtime days when they want to add some fluff to an item.
Wristpocket has no damn business being a second-level spell, especially with a duration limitation AND a concentration requirement. First-level, okay. I can understand not wanting to open the door to Wristpocket as a cantrip. But the spell is not worth more than first level when it's hedged around with a dozen heavy restrictions the way it is, especially when the only class that would ever conceivably take it as a normal, typical spell - Arcane Tricksters - can only do so at eighth level at the cost of one of their three precious 'free' spells.
Wristpocket should be level one, and I don't honestly know if it should retain its concentration requirement. The whole "you can hide eighty pounds of stuff!" argument relies on the use of higher-level spells and once-a-day cooldowns, much of which a typical party will not have. The majority of time, Wristpocket says "hide something trivial for one hour at the cost of a second-level slot you probably don't have to spare and the inability to cast other spells until you let go of the thing".
Too much. Not opkay. Was super disappoint to see.
Why you shouldn't start ANOTHER thread about DDB not giving away free redeems on your hardcopy book purchases.
Thinking of starting ANOTHER thread asking why Epic Boons haven't been implemented? Read this first to learn why you shouldn't!
So... are people also upset and disappointed with the limitations of the 4th level spell "Leomund's Secret Chest"? Because most of these reasons for why wristpocket shouldnt be a 2nd level spell essentially seem to be advocating for a free/low cost version of a FOURTH level spell.
Wristpocket already has some advantages over Secret Chest, chiefly that there is no risk of the item being lost forever and no incredibly expensive material components.
I admit i have some qualms about EGtWM, especially the spells presented, but wristpocket is about perfectly placed and balanced.
As someone pointed out - Rope Trick is 2nd level. Rope Trick also creates an extra dimensional pocket, which also lasts only an hour. But Rope Trick can hold up to 8 medium sized people in that pocket (who subsequently have an invisible window back into this dimension) - and it doesn't require concentration. Wristpocket should be 1st level.
Earth bind is a good worthwhile spell to take but never memorize. Instead make a scroll or put it in a into a ring of spell storing. Continual Flame is a GREAT spell to learn and only cast in out of combat time. I.e. it makes a lot of sense for clerics and wizards to have a bag full of continual flames. At the very least they trade items, but also make great items to throw in dark places.
Wrist pocket vs Rope Trick you trade the VSM for just a S. Still, you have convinced me, Wrist Pocket should be a 1st level spell unless they make it a bonus action to cast and put stuff in/out.
They both create extradimensional spaces, but for different purposes. You can't really hide a magic weapon in a rope trick spell, can you?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
You can hide 8 people in a rope trick spell - I assume they don't have to leave their magic items outside the door :D
You do imply a good feature of Wristpocket - in that it is mobile. That said - you're effectively creating Sleight of Hand+
I wouldn't make it a cantrip - it just seems weak for a 2nd level spell - especially when you compare it against other spells with similar mechanics. I do wonder if the spell level was jiggered in order to have a balance of numbers of spells available at each level for a new school of magic - to provide balance when compared to other schools.
That said - I'd be happy to defer to my DM for whatever level they chose to let Wristpocket lay at - RAW has been good for me.
Secret Chest is effectively permanent, technically you recast it every 2 months to be safe. All permanent like spells are higher level or come with a costly component or both than they normally would be for setting reasons. I rarely see a player take secret chest, its a pretty narrow range of campaigns where it comes in useful. It probably could or should be a lower level, but its always been 4e.
You’ve also got great options opposite the thief comments-making something of up to 5 pounds appear out of nowhere has uses - sword, crossbow, poison , poisoned dagger, acid,, ace of hearts, a real flower, key, 50 feet of silk rope, a spell scroll for some other wizard, a metal file.
When you look at the RP potential , and if you play scenarios where everyone isn’t always decked out with armor, loaded with weapons, and carrying around their 150 pounds of gear (which I always thought was dumb), it has a ton of potential. It’s utility and RP-especially in city environments
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
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Deck of Decks
Just going to add, look up the spell 'Instant Summons'. it's sixth level and has a material component that costs 1000gp. It summons a max 10 pound object that has dimensions of no larger than 6ft to your hand from anywhere. Obviously that is powerful since it is sixth level. However, Wristpocket lets you do this without the costly components, lets you keep the object safe in a demiplane, whilst the object you summon in Instant Summons can be kept from you. Instant Summons does last until dispelled, but so long as you have 10 minutes or the 2nd level spell slot , which is very low cost compared to a 1000gp sapphire and/or a sixth level slot, you can keep Wristpocket up. Sure the object you can have is half the weight, but that isn't too much of an issue.
And yet in 40 years of D&D I have never seen a player bother with instant summons. And this includes the good old days where by level 10 you have 400,000 GP. And again all permanent style spells in the game have severe cost restrictions to stop people from slapping the spell on everything. Its not about game balance but setting.
I'll agree with the setting part, because obviously dunamancy doesn't exist in every world, and in a combat heavy dungeon crawl Wristpocket won't help at all, but in games with more RP segments it cane be fun, useful and just thematic and add to the RP. You just have to get creative. Its like the Artificer's Magical Tinkering. I used to think it was bad, but when I realised I just wasn't being creative enough, then it became a much better feature, for me anyway.
So I was going on this inner monologue/tangent on why Wristpocket should be a cantrip. But then I realized that you could theoretically just poof a bag holding up to 5 pounds worth of stuff into the demiplane. That or it would just poof the bag. And if it would just poof the bag, then it should be a cantrip with VS or SM components with a duration of 10 minutes. But if it would poof the everything, then it should definitely be 1st Level due to the restrictions in place.
if the issue with wristpocket being a cantrip is that it could be useful for combat/time-sensitive situations, change the casting time. if you worry that it will be abused for stealing from shopkeepers, add a verbal/somatic component.
i'm currently allowing it as a cantrip with the following exceptions: it has a casting time of 1 minute and requires v/s/m (a pinch of glass dust) components. i also rule the one object and only 5 lbs or under very strictly. eg. one coin is one object
I dont have my book handy so....
As far as as the bomb scenario, does it state that time passes on the plane normally? could you send it to a plane where 1 hour on the material plane is only 30 seconds on that plane? or 1 hour on the material plane is 100 years
That's not how demiplanes work. With a few exceptions (none listed in the rules), demiplanes have time flow normally.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I get your argument re: extra dimensional space, but i would actually say that—using your example of Rope Trick—this should be 1st level.
While they both create extra dimensional space, the space created by this is MUCH smaller than rope trick despite it having the same duration.
While this only has a somatic component only, i don’t think that the loss of V & M components puts it on the same level as a spell that creates an extra dimensional space that fits up to 8 creatures for the same amount of time.
This completely fixes the spell as a cantrip.
I personally love the original version of the spell as a way for wizards to secure Spell-books.