Nowhere near as much "hype" as would be lost if phase 2 is launched all garbled and incomplete.
One is a test of user patience, which is lacking and not at all the fault of any developer. The other is a test of intelligent business practice, and I'd rather not see Curse fail at one of those that is so easy not to.
Yeah! I mean, how dare they release a BETAfor ABSOLUTELY FREE and then not release more free stuff for you to play with! Don't they know that at least one of their beta testers just wants everything now! Gosh! The 18-month-long campaign that existed prior to any of this will be ruined if they don't release phase 2 immediately!
Of course, when they release phase 2 (yesterday, preferably), it better be polished as all the nine-hells, otherwise that precious hype will be gone!
Release beta 2 guys, much hype and anticipation was build for this and you're losing it by not releasing the next stage.
While we appreciate your product management suggestions, hype and anticipation will have to run it's natural course. Phase 2 will become available when it is ready, and only then.
In the meantime, you may find enjoyment from participating in forum discussion and engaging the community. Thank you again for your feedback.
Totally hyped as well! Constantly checking the forums for updates and stuff pretty much on a daily basis, though personally I feel the same hype for video games or movies, it's just a matter of waiting in anticipation for things to be released.
Also, this is beta and we are all here to test, give feedback and hopefully help the developers as much as we can in making d&d beyond awesome.
Release beta 2 guys, much hype and anticipation was build for this and you're losing it by not releasing the next stage.
What you fail to realize is that the community is helping shape the future of DDB. YOUR ideas are being listened to by the developers. YOUR suggestions are being put into play by the developers. Changes are made daily because of the work the COMMUNITY is putting into this. This isn't a video game that you're eagerly waiting to play. This is a toolset you are helping create. So be patient, test what is there now, and help us make the changes. And when Phase 2 comes out, continue to test while you wait for Phase 3.
Ok, fair enough! Many of what's being said above makes sense. I'm just eager to get on with it I guess. But, I don't understand what there is left to test content wise? It took me literally 15 minutes to go through what has been released and I have little to nothing to say about it as there's already so many sites out there that do exactly the same thing. So in honesty I was, ok yeah this looks promising. So while I understand the concept of "It will be released when it is actually finished" There's also a counter argument for, "Give us access to what you have right now and we'll help you finish it". Is there access to beta2 somewhere already? Or are we relegated to theoretical discussions about "Would like to have"? I'm currently not using this tool in any games as I have my monster manual, players handbook, DM's guide and not everything is actually in this Beta version.
Now, there's probably a lot of people who are playing the white knight and defending developer decisions with vigor and zeal or an overly vivid use of font sizes and colours. Sorry if I stepped on your toes!
For the sake of the community vibe here, can we please treat the phrase "white knight" and so many others like it that only serve to undermine someone else's opinion not on its merits or with any merits of your own position, but with personal attack via accusation that someone is doing something besides just sharing their own opinion, as the entirely unacceptable shenanigans they are?
That'd be great, thanks. I'm just tired of this whole "Your opinion is opposed to mine, which means your some kind of ******* by default" attitude that so many on-line means of discussion get dragged into - it's already catalyzed me leaving numerous other forums.
For the sake of the community vibe here, can we please treat the phrase "white knight" and so many others like it that only serve to undermine someone else's opinion not on its merits or with any merits of your own position, but with personal attack via accusation that someone is doing something besides just sharing their own opinion, as the entirely unacceptable shenanigans they are?
That'd be great, thanks. I'm just tired of this whole "Your opinion is opposed to mine, which means your some kind of ******* by default" attitude that so many on-line means of discussion get dragged into - it's already catalyzed me leaving numerous other forums.
Since this is clearly pointed at me, might I also point out it's also not very positive for the community vibe if people's opinion get put under sarcasm, ridicule and mocking. Which sole purpose is actually to undermine that persons argument by attacking their person. Don't take it personal as it wasn't intended for you.
As for the White Knight, seeing you've got quite a few posts under your belt I think you should also be aware of the way popular opinion tends to drown out individual arguments. Why can't we ask more pointed questions? Why can't we be more critical? Why is my comment taken as negative and not positive criticism?
As for the being nice in wording goes, that's solely in the eye of the reader on how they would like to interpret the wording.
Hopefully now having put all these side topics on forum and behavioural ethics to bed. I'd like to stay on topic. What is the hold up? Why is it taking so long?
Since this is clearly pointed at me, might I also point out it's also not very positive for the community vibe if people's opinion get put under sarcasm, ridicule and mocking. Which sole purpose is actually to undermine that persons argument by attacking their person. Don't take it personal as it wasn't intended for you.
As for the White Knight, seeing you've got quite a few posts under your belt I think you should also be aware of the way popular opinion tends to drown out individual arguments. Why can't we ask more pointed questions? Why can't we be more critical? Why is my comment taken as negative and not positive criticism?
As for the being nice in wording goes, that's solely in the eye of the reader on how they would like to interpret the wording.
Hopefully now having put all these side topics on forum and behavioural ethics to bed. I'd like to stay on topic. What is the hold up? Why is it taking so long?
That it applies to you and was prompted by you does not mean it is "pointed" at you. You aren't the only person I've seen discount other's opinions with labels like "white knight" or "fanboy", just the most recent - and in a place (this new forum that very few familiar screen names from other forums have appeared on) I was hoping not to see it.
That said, I never said anything about whether you can or can't ask more pointed questions. I never said you can't be more critical. I never said your entire comment was taken as negative - I just said what I did say: tossing in phrases like "white night" shouldn't be done. It doesn't help the community feel open to discussion, and it doesn't help your point be made clearly and with ample support because it distracts - even you, apparently - from what is actually being said.
And to your questions; There is no "hold up", the project is taking as long as the project is taking because this is how long the project takes. A person can try to guess when something like this will actually be at the state of preparedness that the developers feel comfortable showing to the public, but there is a heavy subjective factor in that given that one person's "good enough" can easily be another person's "ill-formed garbage."
And pestering the folks doing the work, distracting them from that work or going entirely ignored because they won't distract themselves from their work to answer you, doesn't do you or them any good - it doesn't have any chance at all of making them work faster, and clearly has no chance at all of increasing your patience in regards to the release.
Since this is clearly pointed at me, might I also point out it's also not very positive for the community vibe if people's opinion get put under sarcasm, ridicule and mocking. Which sole purpose is actually to undermine that persons argument by attacking their person. Don't take it personal as it wasn't intended for you.
As for the White Knight, seeing you've got quite a few posts under your belt I think you should also be aware of the way popular opinion tends to drown out individual arguments. Why can't we ask more pointed questions? Why can't we be more critical? Why is my comment taken as negative and not positive criticism?
As for the being nice in wording goes, that's solely in the eye of the reader on how they would like to interpret the wording.
Hopefully now having put all these side topics on forum and behavioural ethics to bed. I'd like to stay on topic. What is the hold up? Why is it taking so long?
That it applies to you and was prompted by you does not mean it is "pointed" at you. You aren't the only person I've seen discount other's opinions with labels like "white knight" or "fanboy", just the most recent - and in a place (this new forum that very few familiar screen names from other forums have appeared on) I was hoping not to see it.
That said, I never said anything about whether you can or can't ask more pointed questions. I never said you can't be more critical. I never said your entire comment was taken as negative - I just said what I did say: tossing in phrases like "white night" shouldn't be done. It doesn't help the community feel open to discussion, and it doesn't help your point be made clearly and with ample support because it distracts - even you, apparently - from what is actually being said.
And to your questions; There is no "hold up", the project is taking as long as the project is taking because this is how long the project takes. A person can try to guess when something like this will actually be at the state of preparedness that the developers feel comfortable showing to the public, but there is a heavy subjective factor in that given that one person's "good enough" can easily be another person's "ill-formed garbage."
And pestering the folks doing the work, distracting them from that work or going entirely ignored because they won't distract themselves from their work to answer you, doesn't do you or them any good - it doesn't have any chance at all of making them work faster, and clearly has no chance at all of increasing your patience in regards to the release.
I used the term, you responded with a comment that the term should not be used. Then state "You aren't the ONLY person" , which is literally putting me into the group. I understand your point, but don't whitewash it by saying you didn't intend that comment for me.
Why do you only pick specific things out of my posts to argument on? I said, popular opinion drowns out criticism, you don't even talk about that. The popular opinion being "It takes as long as it takes, now stop asking!" Why? I mean, read the link I posted, there's someone else asking the same thing and drawing the same conclusions I am, like literally the exact same conclusion. I'm sorry, but you've got the wrong end of the stick and I suggest you carefully read what I'm writing and don't jump to conclusions and picking things out to win an argument that has no added benefit to this post.
I also love how I'm now suddenly pestering the developers...where does that even come from?
I used the term, you responded with a comment that the term should not be used. Then state "You aren't the ONLY person" , which is literally putting me into the group. I understand your point, but don't whitewash it by saying you didn't intend that comment for me.
Why do you only pick specific things out of my posts to argument on? I said, popular opinion drowns out criticism, you don't even talk about that. The popular opinion being "It takes as long as it takes, now stop asking!" Why? I mean, read the link I posted, there's someone else asking the same thing and drawing the same conclusions I am, like literally the exact same conclusion. I'm sorry, but you've got the wrong end of the stick and I suggest you carefully read what I'm writing and don't jump to conclusions and picking things out to win an argument that has no added benefit to this post.
I also love how I'm now suddenly pestering the developers...where does that even come from?
1) Not only you is a different thing from not you. Don't accuse me of whitewashing something because you failed to read the difference.
2) I should not have to have a comment on literally everything in your post in order to comment on anything in your post. I didn't respond to the idea that popular opinion drowns out criticism because I don't have any relevant comments on that particular branch of discussion - anything I would say would come across poorly, because it could be reduced to this; Only when the criticism in question isn't popular, because while popular opinions are not guaranteed to be correct they are also not inherently wrong, so that a criticism gets "drowned out" by popular opinion is pretty much irrelevant to the quality of either opinion.
As for why popular opinion on this particular issue is patience rather than calling for more immediate release or information? That's a mystery to me. Pure magic, even, given that it suggests that most people are willing to wait patiently for something which is completely unheard of on the internet.
Also, I'm not trying to "win an argument". I'm just posting my thoughts like any body else can (yay! public forum).
3) Excuse my mild hyperbole in equating you straight-up telling the developers what to do, which I quote "Release beta 2 guys...", with pestering, which is a word that I guess technically according to its definition only applies if considering not just your own impatient post but also the other people making similarly impatient requests of the developers.
You've taken a lot of flack for this comment, I'll show you some support, because I think you're making a valid point, even though it's an unpopular opinion.
We've had a lot of games over sold on hype in the past few years, No Man's Sky and Mass Effect Andromeda were both cautionary tales of what can happen if you try to release a product before it's polished and ready. So understandably, they want to take their time and do things right with DDB, which is probably a good thing.
But, on the other hand, as a customer, I'm eager to see how DDB is going to change the way I buy my D&D content, and I'm putting off purchasing any new D&D stuff until I see how this plays out. And this is the advice I give to other players thinking about buying new books. Wait until DDB comes out, it might work out better than buying the books, or you might be able to unlock DDB connect with the purchase of a physical book of you hold off for a month. Or two. Or three.
I'm excited about this, I'm talking about it with other players, I say this is a thing that might be really cool, it might really improve the way we play the game, it's in the works, it's supposed to be coming out "soon..." I'm definitely helping to drive the hype machine, because I really want for DDB to be successful, but sometimes I feel like an idiot for telling people about this awesome new thing that's coming very soon and it's still not out yet.
Are you really telling me that you can't see how what you said, also included me and therefore I was valid to respond to it? Alright then, you can turn the argument around and point it at me and say I'm the one not understanding it all. I can see you're beyond comprehension and I'll just stop arguing this particular point as it feels like I'm arguing with my 5 year old. No offense but there's just too much similarities on that in this particular part of the discussion and I truly believe you're better than that!
No, I have an issue with you choosing to ignore statements I made regarding this discussion in preference of looking for ways to shoot down my arguments. Now, I would thank you for discussing the "Popular opinion", I agree with you wholeheartedly that popular isn't always the wrong answer. But without people questioning the popular opinion and arguing their point, how do you know? If you scroll through the comments and read you'll see that I was greeted with sarcasm, ridicule and mockery for voicing an opinion in this case not in line with the popular opinion of leaving the developers to it and just trusting. As for the White Knight statement, more often than not popular opinion has the exact same effect.
Like I already stated before, how a comment is read is purely in the reader's mind eye. I can see how what I said can be taken as me pestering and how it reflects upon my impatience. But the exact same comment could also be taken as a concerned poster, not wanting this wonderful tool to loose traction and making sure people are aware (I wasn't the only one). So, again I ask you to really read what I am saying here and not jump to conclusions.
Secondly, lets track back a bit and make sure we don't divulge and lose track of what I am posting about.
I posted that, they should hurry up with the release of the Beta2 because they are losing hype and faith of people.
Now please tell me what is wrong with that statement? Especially with the fact that I'm not alone in saying this exact same thing. If you're fine with it then let's just move on from that already.
Ok, everyone - take a step back on this one for a moment, please.
The topic at hand can be discussed and is relevant - that's fine, "whether beta 2 should be released asap, or wait until it's ready."
What's not fine is that this thread is rapidly becoming a series of posts attacking the way that each other are posting, the phrasing, or the tone used.
Please, I'd like us all to cease picking apart the way that each other post, and continue with the topic.
I don't want to have to lock this thread and issue warnings to people! :)
Release beta 2 guys, much hype and anticipation was build for this and you're losing it by not releasing the next stage.
Nowhere near as much "hype" as would be lost if phase 2 is launched all garbled and incomplete.
One is a test of user patience, which is lacking and not at all the fault of any developer. The other is a test of intelligent business practice, and I'd rather not see Curse fail at one of those that is so easy not to.
Yeah! I mean, how dare they release a BETA for ABSOLUTELY FREE and then not release more free stuff for you to play with! Don't they know that at least one of their beta testers just wants everything now! Gosh! The 18-month-long campaign that existed prior to any of this will be ruined if they don't release phase 2 immediately!
Of course, when they release phase 2 (yesterday, preferably), it better be polished as all the nine-hells, otherwise that precious hype will be gone!
Seriously?..
Totally hyped as well! Constantly checking the forums for updates and stuff pretty much on a daily basis, though personally I feel the same hype for video games or movies, it's just a matter of waiting in anticipation for things to be released.
Also, this is beta and we are all here to test, give feedback and hopefully help the developers as much as we can in making d&d beyond awesome.
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InsidersA dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
Ok, fair enough! Many of what's being said above makes sense. I'm just eager to get on with it I guess.
But, I don't understand what there is left to test content wise? It took me literally 15 minutes to go through what has been released and I have little to nothing to say about it as there's already so many sites out there that do exactly the same thing. So in honesty I was, ok yeah this looks promising. So while I understand the concept of "It will be released when it is actually finished" There's also a counter argument for, "Give us access to what you have right now and we'll help you finish it". Is there access to beta2 somewhere already? Or are we relegated to theoretical discussions about "Would like to have"?
I'm currently not using this tool in any games as I have my monster manual, players handbook, DM's guide and not everything is actually in this Beta version.
Now, there's probably a lot of people who are playing the white knight and defending developer decisions with vigor and zeal or an overly vivid use of font sizes and colours. Sorry if I stepped on your toes!
It not about being the "white knight", it about using a proper tone toward people that are working.
That being said, Phase 2 and Phase 3 are very interconnected, that is one of the reason they are taking time.
Hey folks,
For the sake of the community vibe here, can we please treat the phrase "white knight" and so many others like it that only serve to undermine someone else's opinion not on its merits or with any merits of your own position, but with personal attack via accusation that someone is doing something besides just sharing their own opinion, as the entirely unacceptable shenanigans they are?
That'd be great, thanks. I'm just tired of this whole "Your opinion is opposed to mine, which means your some kind of ******* by default" attitude that so many on-line means of discussion get dragged into - it's already catalyzed me leaving numerous other forums.
I get what the OP means in terms of hype, but D&D Beyond is the boat. They can't possibly miss it.
Since this is clearly pointed at me, might I also point out it's also not very positive for the community vibe if people's opinion get put under sarcasm, ridicule and mocking. Which sole purpose is actually to undermine that persons argument by attacking their person. Don't take it personal as it wasn't intended for you.
As for the White Knight, seeing you've got quite a few posts under your belt I think you should also be aware of the way popular opinion tends to drown out individual arguments. Why can't we ask more pointed questions? Why can't we be more critical? Why is my comment taken as negative and not positive criticism?
As for the being nice in wording goes, that's solely in the eye of the reader on how they would like to interpret the wording.
Hopefully now having put all these side topics on forum and behavioural ethics to bed. I'd like to stay on topic.
What is the hold up? Why is it taking so long?
For more info on the release of Phase 2, feel free to visit the following threads:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/beta-testing-feedback/3125-beta-report-first-60-days
http://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/beta-testing-feedback/1535-mega-thread-focused-feedback-items-listing?comment=228
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Well I guess I'm not the only one who's seeing what's happening.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/beta-testing-feedback/3125-beta-report-first-60-days?page=2#c25
You've taken a lot of flack for this comment, I'll show you some support, because I think you're making a valid point, even though it's an unpopular opinion.
We've had a lot of games over sold on hype in the past few years, No Man's Sky and Mass Effect Andromeda were both cautionary tales of what can happen if you try to release a product before it's polished and ready. So understandably, they want to take their time and do things right with DDB, which is probably a good thing.
But, on the other hand, as a customer, I'm eager to see how DDB is going to change the way I buy my D&D content, and I'm putting off purchasing any new D&D stuff until I see how this plays out. And this is the advice I give to other players thinking about buying new books. Wait until DDB comes out, it might work out better than buying the books, or you might be able to unlock DDB connect with the purchase of a physical book of you hold off for a month. Or two. Or three.
I'm excited about this, I'm talking about it with other players, I say this is a thing that might be really cool, it might really improve the way we play the game, it's in the works, it's supposed to be coming out "soon..." I'm definitely helping to drive the hype machine, because I really want for DDB to be successful, but sometimes I feel like an idiot for telling people about this awesome new thing that's coming very soon and it's still not out yet.
Firstly let me give my replies to your arguments:
Secondly, lets track back a bit and make sure we don't divulge and lose track of what I am posting about.
Now please tell me what is wrong with that statement? Especially with the fact that I'm not alone in saying this exact same thing. If you're fine with it then let's just move on from that already.
Thanks for the support!
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D&D Beyond FoundersOk, everyone - take a step back on this one for a moment, please.
The topic at hand can be discussed and is relevant - that's fine, "whether beta 2 should be released asap, or wait until it's ready."
What's not fine is that this thread is rapidly becoming a series of posts attacking the way that each other are posting, the phrasing, or the tone used.
Please, I'd like us all to cease picking apart the way that each other post, and continue with the topic.
I don't want to have to lock this thread and issue warnings to people! :)
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