Not sure if this is a bug or by design, but I am not sure how the following features and abilities are supposed to interact. I would have assumed that the base AC for the Unarmored Defense calculation would have started at 13 (Lizardfolk natural armor). This would mean a Lizardfolk Barbarian (if not wearing any armor) would have an AC of 13 +Dex modifier +Con modifier. So with a Dex of 14 and a Con of 14 their AC would be 17?
The character builder does not calculate it this way. Please let me know if this is by design (and if so, which one should be used, Natural Armor or Unarmored Defense) or if it is a bug.
Thanks,
Andrew
Natural Armor You have tough, scaly skin. When you aren’t wearing armor, your AC is 13 + your Dexterity modifier. You can use your natural armor to determine your AC if the armor you wear would leave you with a lower AC. A shield’s benefits apply as normal while you use your natural armor.
Unarmored Defense While you are not wearing any armor, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier. You can use a shield and still gain this benefit.
Armour calculations do not stack. You get one, not all. Generally you default to the best. So if your end AC is better with Natural Armour, that's your AC. If your end AC is better with Unarmoured Defence, that's your AC. They don't work together, it's one or the other.
So i loose my Scales when i have too much Con? That sounds pretty dumb. It makes one of the Race bonis completly obsolet. I understand that Wizrads of the Coast has the last word in that but still. I would have interpeted it that they have a base ac of 13 instead of 10 not that they wear "there scales as" Armor.
The rules on armor calculations are very clear on how it works - they don't stack.
You're welcome to use homebrew rules in your games and decide that's how it works if that's what your group want to do. Be careful though of unbalancing the game - by allowing armor sources to stack, characters can achieve a very high armor class.
I agree to only being allowed to pick one unarmored defense from a specific class because they are the same skill(the name), but lets not forget that d&d isn't a game abt being balanced and if one player is stronger than the others in a fight it's not a big deal because the game is about role-playing and if a creature has base stats that are stronger than you, then suck it up, life isnt fair and esspecially in the world of d&d races are different and a lot of them are just baseline better than others
Some races are definitely better at certain things than other races, that's for certain, but this isn't a matter of interpretation or agreement, it's a core rule of the game on how AC calculations work.
That said, the DM is always able to decide to alter the rules for their game. :)
What I hate is that this makes a Lizardfolk barbarian no tankier than a human one and I'm sorry but wearing nothing a Lizardfolk is going to be able to tank way more damage, maybe give it the calc or allow it to give plus 2 to another one. Just really seems stupid to be entirely disregarded.
The same could be said if the barbarian were to wear a set of leather armor - it doesn't count, as they get one calculation or the other.
My advice is not to get caught up in, "but that doesn't make sense to me based on my own experiences of the physics in our real world," as the world of D&D is clearly very different in the way that it works. :)
Then why list it at all as a racial ability when most classes a Lizardfolk would pursue from a lore perspective either get better unarmored ac in the case of a barbarian, or better armored ac in the case of a ranger or fighter. Just bad design from that stance.
Then why list it at all as a racial ability when most classes a Lizardfolk would pursue from a lore perspective either get better unarmored ac in the case of a barbarian, or better armored ac in the case of a ranger or fighter. Just bad design from that stance.
You know DnD Beyond has nothing to do with the design or rules?
The same could be said if the barbarian were to wear a set of leather armor - it doesn't count, as they get one calculation or the other.
My advice is not to get caught up in, "but that doesn't make sense to me based on my own experiences of the physics in our real world," as the world of D&D is clearly very different in the way that it works. :)
Ok, so chink here. 1. is defense from <base creatures> body; 13+Dex <Lizardfolk> vs. 10+Dex <large majority of other PC races>. 2. Barb Def should be <base creatures> ac+Dex+Con if unarmored, because thinking that an a naturally armored body gets weaker doing the same training a weaker body has to do, is dumb. So Adding Armor as the argument? Not logical, sorry not trolling, but yeah naked guy not the same as guy wearing armor. Armor isn't always weight, it is restrictive, that is what I believe the intent. This is a simple metric applied to all classes that use <base PC race Ac> 10, because where do you think they came up with that number for base AC, PC race perhaps?
To also address in the form the min-max multi-class ac munchkins, yeah, well they don't play in my games and anyone suggesting something close to the sort of a multi-class option, has a role-play obligation because it is a role-playing game, not a video game. I suggest you do the same if you have a balance concern or just to start taking levels in billionaire playboy tomorrow; cause it takes no training, no opportunity and just magically happens if you want it to happen, good luck.
I think they should re-examine this rule. Because one benefit comes from race and the other comes from class, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't stack. If they don't stack, it's just punishing a lizardfolk for being a barbarian.
I came across this “bug” and tried to make a tank style Barbarian. I ran it by the DM and he dropped the NOPE bomb because I got to high roles and put them into DEX and CON, making the lvl 1 AC 21. I managed to pursuance him to give the okay when I made it so my character only had one hand so he couldn't use a shield or two handed weapons. Sad ‘cause I didn’t get to add shield AC in, but I think it was worth it. Always talk to the DM, if you let them know what your going for, they will generally help you move in that direction.
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Hi,
Not sure if this is a bug or by design, but I am not sure how the following features and abilities are supposed to interact. I would have assumed that the base AC for the Unarmored Defense calculation would have started at 13 (Lizardfolk natural armor). This would mean a Lizardfolk Barbarian (if not wearing any armor) would have an AC of 13 +Dex modifier +Con modifier. So with a Dex of 14 and a Con of 14 their AC would be 17?
The character builder does not calculate it this way. Please let me know if this is by design (and if so, which one should be used, Natural Armor or Unarmored Defense) or if it is a bug.
Thanks,
Andrew
Natural Armor
You have tough, scaly skin. When you aren’t wearing armor, your AC is 13 + your Dexterity modifier. You can use your natural armor to determine your AC if the armor you wear would leave you with a lower AC. A shield’s benefits apply as normal while you use your natural armor.
Unarmored Defense
While you are not wearing any armor, your Armor Class equals 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier. You can use a shield and still gain this benefit.
Armour calculations do not stack. You get one, not all. Generally you default to the best. So if your end AC is better with Natural Armour, that's your AC. If your end AC is better with Unarmoured Defence, that's your AC. They don't work together, it's one or the other.
It'll be 10+dex+con OR 13+dex OR Armor+dex according to the rules. DDB will pick the higher of the two unarmored scores for you.
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Cool beans, thanks folks!
So i loose my Scales when i have too much Con?
That sounds pretty dumb.
It makes one of the Race bonis completly obsolet.
I understand that Wizrads of the Coast has the last word in that but still.
I would have interpeted it that they have a base ac of 13 instead of 10 not that they wear "there scales as" Armor.
The rules on armor calculations are very clear on how it works - they don't stack.
You're welcome to use homebrew rules in your games and decide that's how it works if that's what your group want to do. Be careful though of unbalancing the game - by allowing armor sources to stack, characters can achieve a very high armor class.
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If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
You still have them, but it’s not what is protecting you at that point.
The rule exists so that you can not take say a Lizarfolk Barbarian with a dip in monk and end up with an AC calculation looking like (13+Dex+Con+Wis).
And to not also take a dip as a Draconic Sorcerer for another 3 points in AC as well.
I agree to only being allowed to pick one unarmored defense from a specific class because they are the same skill(the name), but lets not forget that d&d isn't a game abt being balanced and if one player is stronger than the others in a fight it's not a big deal because the game is about role-playing and if a creature has base stats that are stronger than you, then suck it up, life isnt fair and esspecially in the world of d&d races are different and a lot of them are just baseline better than others
Some races are definitely better at certain things than other races, that's for certain, but this isn't a matter of interpretation or agreement, it's a core rule of the game on how AC calculations work.
That said, the DM is always able to decide to alter the rules for their game. :)
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
What I hate is that this makes a Lizardfolk barbarian no tankier than a human one and I'm sorry but wearing nothing a Lizardfolk is going to be able to tank way more damage, maybe give it the calc or allow it to give plus 2 to another one. Just really seems stupid to be entirely disregarded.
The same could be said if the barbarian were to wear a set of leather armor - it doesn't count, as they get one calculation or the other.
My advice is not to get caught up in, "but that doesn't make sense to me based on my own experiences of the physics in our real world," as the world of D&D is clearly very different in the way that it works. :)
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Then why list it at all as a racial ability when most classes a Lizardfolk would pursue from a lore perspective either get better unarmored ac in the case of a barbarian, or better armored ac in the case of a ranger or fighter. Just bad design from that stance.
You know DnD Beyond has nothing to do with the design or rules?
I'm stating as a rule/trait in the first place, not on this site.
Ok, so chink here. 1. is defense from <base creatures> body; 13+Dex <Lizardfolk> vs. 10+Dex <large majority of other PC races>. 2. Barb Def should be <base creatures> ac+Dex+Con if unarmored, because thinking that an a naturally armored body gets weaker doing the same training a weaker body has to do, is dumb. So Adding Armor as the argument? Not logical, sorry not trolling, but yeah naked guy not the same as guy wearing armor. Armor isn't always weight, it is restrictive, that is what I believe the intent. This is a simple metric applied to all classes that use <base PC race Ac> 10, because where do you think they came up with that number for base AC, PC race perhaps?
To also address in the form the min-max multi-class ac munchkins, yeah, well they don't play in my games and anyone suggesting something close to the sort of a multi-class option, has a role-play obligation because it is a role-playing game, not a video game. I suggest you do the same if you have a balance concern or just to start taking levels in billionaire playboy tomorrow; cause it takes no training, no opportunity and just magically happens if you want it to happen, good luck.
I think they should re-examine this rule. Because one benefit comes from race and the other comes from class, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't stack. If they don't stack, it's just punishing a lizardfolk for being a barbarian.
exactly, they destroy a good fitting concept and a Lizardfolk would be better of as Wizard
I came across this “bug” and tried to make a tank style Barbarian. I ran it by the DM and he dropped the NOPE bomb because I got to high roles and put them into DEX and CON, making the lvl 1 AC 21. I managed to pursuance him to give the okay when I made it so my character only had one hand so he couldn't use a shield or two handed weapons. Sad ‘cause I didn’t get to add shield AC in, but I think it was worth it. Always talk to the DM, if you let them know what your going for, they will generally help you move in that direction.