Hi, the new monster stat blocks look great and the change is appreciated. I appreciate the not wanting a "knee-jerk" reaction on the changing of anything also. However the underlined text for the conditions links is very difficult for me to see. I can barely tell if conditions are underlined or not, as those are underlined green, and the coloring just doesn't seem to come through very well on that thin line. The purple (spells) and red (monsters) underlines are more visible, but I think the problem is the green on the yellow background. If there is a way to make the underline thicker, or even a slightly darker shade of green I think it would be a bit easier to read.
An example of a monster with all three of these underlines is a Drow Mage
Additionally I reported a bug, that there are no underlines visible at all in Safari on the iPhone 7. I'm not sure if this is a browser/mobile/iPhone issue or not, but if I click something I know is a link (like a spell) it works, however in the text the underline isn't there at all. I figured this is "feedback" as well, so included it here.
So, I hate to be the contrarian but I vehemently dislike the new user experience with the monster stat blocks. Please don't fall into the trap of trying to recreate the art direction of the books. I use D&D Beyond because of it's utility. KEEP IT SIMPLE and DO NOT muck it up with artistic flair. The UX on mobile devices for Monster stats is legible, clean, and easily scanned in the midst of play. I can't read the new stats block as easily - I have the same issue with the analog books. UPDATE: Oh, noes! You mucked up the mobile device UX, too! Why!?!
Here's a compromise - keep the summary view (when clicking the + symbol from the Monster list) as it was before - nice, clean, and simple. But, have the Details Page incorporate this new look you are trying out. That distinguishes the two from each other, at least. And, you won't piss off us oldos with the oldo eyes! And if you need more incentive, allow me to remind you that my demographic has the discretionary income...rolls Intimidation...
I guess the old adage of you wont keep everyone happy ever applies here.
I also preferred the previous way of visualization, while on web and tablet, I felt it was easier to parse. for print, I guess the new format is ok? TBH when I'm DMing I just have the tabs open with the creatures I need and switch between them, so the previous easier to read format was golden, can we compromise with an account setting that allows us to choose which way to display is preferred?
What I would actually like to see is perhaps an expandable div or something while on tablet/mobile, so when I click a spell, it displays on the same page instead of taking me to a new page and then forcing me to browse back.
So, I hate to be the contrarian but I vehemently dislike the new user experience with the monster stat blocks. Please don't fall into the trap of trying to recreate the art direction of the books. I use D&D Beyond because of it's utility. KEEP IT SIMPLE and DO NOT muck it up with artistic flair. The UX on mobile devices for Monster stats is legible, clean, and easily scanned in the midst of play. I can't read the new stats block as easily - I have the same issue with the analog books. UPDATE: Oh, noes! You mucked up the mobile device UX, too! Why!?!
Here's a compromise - keep the summary view (when clicking the + symbol from the Monster list) as it was before - nice, clean, and simple. But, have the Details Page incorporate this new look you are trying out. That distinguishes the two from each other, at least. And, you won't piss off us oldos with the oldo eyes! And if you need more incentive, allow me to remind you that my demographic has the discretionary income...rolls Intimidation...
I really agree with this. I was actually super shocked when I looked up a monster and saw the new look. One of the main reasons I chose to re-buy content on here that I already own is because the format was SO MUCH EASIER to read. Please please please change it back or give us an option to choose the other format. It was much more accessible. :(
1) As I've said many times before, we certainly won't be able to make everyone happy, and this case is no different.
2) The fairly convincing majority of both the requests we received prior to making this change and the feedback we've received since making the change is that the new layout is preferred. I know it typically isn't enjoyable to be in a minority on these kinds of things, but those are the facts on the ground.
3) We won't be changing the stat block layout itself from where we are now - we made an intentional decision to change and use the standardized layout that is used everywhere else. After many months of reviewing feedback, the pros of using the standard layout outweigh the cons. If Wizards of the Coast makes changes in the future, then we'll make changes accordingly.
4) After looking through the early feedback, many of the issues (including several raised in this thread) could be attributed to look and feel and not layout. The good news is, as I have mentioned elsewhere, that we can and will allow for folks to view the stat blocks without the background texture, tooltip style changes, and so on.
For mobile, I agree that the stat blocks aren't using the space appropriately, and a change to reduce margin sizes is already in development and should be available soon.
To use some examples, the current implementation looks like:
In the near future, the mobile view will look more like this:
And we'll introduce a preference to allow folks to view stat blocks like this:
I feel that these changes will fix many of the cited issues and we'll keep everyone updated.
In the meantime, I'm happy to continue to take a look at any feedback to see if these conclusions need to change.
Having used it briefly last night in a game, it's my opinion that the new layout is better for running games with a notebook at the table. The darker 'parchment' background actually makes things easier for me to read and the format/layout of it makes it more intuitive to find things and reference during a game.
Prior to using it, I had similar qualms about it on initial reaction. And even after that, I was happy to know that I'd be given an option to get rid of the parchment. I'll still test that feature out once it's available, but I'm actually leaning towards the fact that I'll probably end up preferring the parchment look.
One thing to consider is that, even though there isn't always a direct correlation to usability between a book and a screen, there has been a lot of research and effort that's gone into how stat blocks in D&D have evolved over the last forty years, and especially in 5e. Although I'm not 100% happy with the book-look and layout, I do find it to be the best statblock of any edition prior, and I'm finding that that ease of use is actually translating, at least for me, to use on a screen.
I personally preferred the bolded text to the underlined text. I can't quite place my finger on it but the legibility of this new layout is definitely worse for me. Granted, my eyes are awful, but I still vastly prefer the typesetting of the previous format. I do like the page layout, just not the particular text. Perhaps we could have account based text settings? I would personally like to change from a sans-serif font because of personal preference, and the new monster stat blocks just don't feel right font wise, maybe because of the text size?
4) After looking through the early feedback, many of the issues (including several raised in this thread) could be attributed to look and feel and not layout. The good news is, as I have mentioned elsewhere, that we can and will allow for folks to view the stat blocks without the background texture, tooltip style changes, and so on.
By "look and feel", are you referring to consistency across the product? Right now, while I love the new monster layout, for how it matches the book layout better, there seems to be some inconsistency across the product. I can find three different layouts for the same monster.
For example, here is the Allosaurus entry in the Monsters listing:
(Ignore dice icons added by a Chrome extension.)
Here is the Allosaurus entry in the Monster Manual in the compendium:
Here is the Allosaurus entry for the tooltip, when you mouse-over Allosaurus:
4) After looking through the early feedback, many of the issues (including several raised in this thread) could be attributed to look and feel and not layout. The good news is, as I have mentioned elsewhere, that we can and will allow for folks to view the stat blocks without the background texture, tooltip style changes, and so on.
By "look and feel", are you referring to consistency across the product? Right now, while I love the new monster layout, for how it matches the book layout better, there seems to be some inconsistency across the product. I can find three different layouts for the same monster.
For example, here is the Aarakocra entry in the Monsters listing:
(Ignore dice icons added by a Chrome extension.)
Here is the Aarakocra entry in the Monster Manual in the compendium:
Here is the Aarakocra entry for the tooltip, when you mouse-over Aarakocra:
You are correct - all of those views will be standardized in the coming weeks.
i am fine with the new look as wizards as made quite a good stat blocks compared to what it used to be. i must say though, i was fine either way, the old or the new. but i will say this, the new look which is copied from the MM. needs a bit of working to make it work on mobiles. i have an app i had created for myself that tries that and i can say, you just can't double up like the MM when it comes to mobiles, so everything has to be on one page and it ends up scrolling a lot for legendary creatures.
but i am fine wither way, i don't plan on checking those on my phone.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Looking good. I like the MM type stat block, but agree it would be good for those who want to be able to turn off the background art and have it plain white.
The only thing I would alter is the color of the link underlines. They're distracting and unattractive. Right now, they're colorized to match the color of the relevant section they link to (red for monsters, purple for spells, green for compendium). It's a noble attempt at visual consistency, but that information isn't important. If a spell is underlined, I know the link leads to the spell. I would make the underline the same color as the text.
Keep up the good work!
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Hi, the new monster stat blocks look great and the change is appreciated. I appreciate the not wanting a "knee-jerk" reaction on the changing of anything also. However the underlined text for the conditions links is very difficult for me to see. I can barely tell if conditions are underlined or not, as those are underlined green, and the coloring just doesn't seem to come through very well on that thin line. The purple (spells) and red (monsters) underlines are more visible, but I think the problem is the green on the yellow background. If there is a way to make the underline thicker, or even a slightly darker shade of green I think it would be a bit easier to read.
An example of a monster with all three of these underlines is a Drow Mage
Additionally I reported a bug, that there are no underlines visible at all in Safari on the iPhone 7. I'm not sure if this is a browser/mobile/iPhone issue or not, but if I click something I know is a link (like a spell) it works, however in the text the underline isn't there at all. I figured this is "feedback" as well, so included it here.
Thanks for the hard work and the great update!
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
So, I hate to be the contrarian but I vehemently dislike the new user experience with the monster stat blocks. Please don't fall into the trap of trying to recreate the art direction of the books. I use D&D Beyond because of it's utility. KEEP IT SIMPLE and DO NOT muck it up with artistic flair. The UX on mobile devices for Monster stats is legible, clean, and easily scanned in the midst of play. I can't read the new stats block as easily - I have the same issue with the analog books. UPDATE: Oh, noes! You mucked up the mobile device UX, too! Why!?!
Here's a compromise - keep the summary view (when clicking the + symbol from the Monster list) as it was before - nice, clean, and simple. But, have the Details Page incorporate this new look you are trying out. That distinguishes the two from each other, at least. And, you won't piss off us oldos with the oldo eyes! And if you need more incentive, allow me to remind you that my demographic has the discretionary income...rolls Intimidation...
I guess the old adage of you wont keep everyone happy ever applies here.
I also preferred the previous way of visualization, while on web and tablet, I felt it was easier to parse. for print, I guess the new format is ok?
TBH when I'm DMing I just have the tabs open with the creatures I need and switch between them, so the previous easier to read format was golden, can we compromise with an account setting that allows us to choose which way to display is preferred?
What I would actually like to see is perhaps an expandable div or something while on tablet/mobile, so when I click a spell, it displays on the same page instead of taking me to a new page and then forcing me to browse back.
Hello everyone. Thanks for the feedback here.
I've got some details to share, few things:
1) As I've said many times before, we certainly won't be able to make everyone happy, and this case is no different.
2) The fairly convincing majority of both the requests we received prior to making this change and the feedback we've received since making the change is that the new layout is preferred. I know it typically isn't enjoyable to be in a minority on these kinds of things, but those are the facts on the ground.
3) We won't be changing the stat block layout itself from where we are now - we made an intentional decision to change and use the standardized layout that is used everywhere else. After many months of reviewing feedback, the pros of using the standard layout outweigh the cons. If Wizards of the Coast makes changes in the future, then we'll make changes accordingly.
4) After looking through the early feedback, many of the issues (including several raised in this thread) could be attributed to look and feel and not layout. The good news is, as I have mentioned elsewhere, that we can and will allow for folks to view the stat blocks without the background texture, tooltip style changes, and so on.
For mobile, I agree that the stat blocks aren't using the space appropriately, and a change to reduce margin sizes is already in development and should be available soon.
To use some examples, the current implementation looks like:
In the near future, the mobile view will look more like this:
And we'll introduce a preference to allow folks to view stat blocks like this:
I feel that these changes will fix many of the cited issues and we'll keep everyone updated.
In the meantime, I'm happy to continue to take a look at any feedback to see if these conclusions need to change.
Thanks!
Having used it briefly last night in a game, it's my opinion that the new layout is better for running games with a notebook at the table. The darker 'parchment' background actually makes things easier for me to read and the format/layout of it makes it more intuitive to find things and reference during a game.
Prior to using it, I had similar qualms about it on initial reaction. And even after that, I was happy to know that I'd be given an option to get rid of the parchment. I'll still test that feature out once it's available, but I'm actually leaning towards the fact that I'll probably end up preferring the parchment look.
One thing to consider is that, even though there isn't always a direct correlation to usability between a book and a screen, there has been a lot of research and effort that's gone into how stat blocks in D&D have evolved over the last forty years, and especially in 5e. Although I'm not 100% happy with the book-look and layout, I do find it to be the best statblock of any edition prior, and I'm finding that that ease of use is actually translating, at least for me, to use on a screen.
Thanks BadEye, the narrower margins in that mock-up look spot on.
Love the new stat blocks. Looks great!
I personally preferred the bolded text to the underlined text. I can't quite place my finger on it but the legibility of this new layout is definitely worse for me. Granted, my eyes are awful, but I still vastly prefer the typesetting of the previous format. I do like the page layout, just not the particular text. Perhaps we could have account based text settings? I would personally like to change from a sans-serif font because of personal preference, and the new monster stat blocks just don't feel right font wise, maybe because of the text size?
i am fine with the new look as wizards as made quite a good stat blocks compared to what it used to be.
i must say though, i was fine either way, the old or the new. but i will say this, the new look which is copied from the MM. needs a bit of working to make it work on mobiles.
i have an app i had created for myself that tries that and i can say, you just can't double up like the MM when it comes to mobiles, so everything has to be on one page and it ends up scrolling a lot for legendary creatures.
but i am fine wither way, i don't plan on checking those on my phone.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Looking good. I like the MM type stat block, but agree it would be good for those who want to be able to turn off the background art and have it plain white.
I really like the stat block change.
The only thing I would alter is the color of the link underlines. They're distracting and unattractive. Right now, they're colorized to match the color of the relevant section they link to (red for monsters, purple for spells, green for compendium). It's a noble attempt at visual consistency, but that information isn't important. If a spell is underlined, I know the link leads to the spell. I would make the underline the same color as the text.
Keep up the good work!