I don't see/understand the argument against changing this. Why would anyone (not speaking to anyone specific here) be against improving other people's experience if it doesn't detract from others. It also should be a rather simple change assuming there isn't too much spaghetti. It wouldn't delay other projects. See spoiler tag for how I would personally like it implemented.
I may be missing something, and I apologize if I am, but to me, the simple fix would seem to be to change the section title in the Character Builder from PhysicalCharacteristics to Characteristics so it matches the Character Sheet.
I cannot argue, that would in fact be one way to eliminate the source of this particular confusion.
Although, my personal preference would be to not only do that, but also make separate entries for both sex and gender and let people decide individually which to fill out if not both or if either at all, and how for fill it out for themselves. That would be the most inclusive option I can imagine. It’ll never happen though because it’s not how WotC does it, and they ain’t gonna do another errata again so soon just for that.
In the character builder section "description", under physical characteristics, there is a box to write what the characters gender is. however, there is no box for sex, so this could lead to 2 potential confusions:
1. the term gender is used interchangebly with sex by the character builder, which is detrimental to the identity of the character and to some members of the LGBTQ+ community who may feel not feel represented, as well as being dismissive of gender identities as a whole.
2. The use of gender in the character builder refers to the definition of gender as understood today, in which case it should either be moved to a section other than physical characteristics, as it implies that gender identities must have visible physical characteristics, which helps perpetuate certain stereotypes, or a separate section for sex should be added to distinguish from the characters gender, allowing greater freedom and descriptiveness when creating the character, or should least be made clear in the meaning and use of this term.
thanks in advance.
Isn't there a freeform field somewhere that you can put whatever in that you choose?
It seems kinda of a stretch that this here should be an issue. Whatever you want your character to be you just narrate to your group.
It’s not just one person. Now it’s two people who are offended and hurt by it. How many do we need before it officially gets designated as a problem needs fixin’? Would three people be enough? Or four perhaps? When is it enough people offended by something before it becomes a problem needs to be addressed?
If we were to react to everything that anyone go offended by, then we couldn't do anything at all. There's probably at least 1 person that's offended that someone else is offended. Or there would be at least 1 person that would be offended by the change imposed by another person which was offended.
You see where this is going?
Noone is more "right" than the other when it comes to what they're offended by. So therefore, if two people are offended and want two different changes, which change do you pick?
I don't see/understand the argument against changing this. Why would anyone (not speaking to anyone specific here) be against improving other people's experience if it doesn't detract from others. It also should be a rather simple change assuming there isn't too much spaghetti. It wouldn't delay other projects. See spoiler tag for how I would personally like it implemented.
We have other "simple" changes suggested for the site, they've been in the works/suggested for 2+ years. Something as simple as override value and weight supporting decimals etc.
Changing a field in the code is apparently not something that gets done in a day around here. I personally don't care what it says in physical characteristics, I'm not against a change like this. I just wonder where it stops. What happens if someone else is offended by the change though? Do we change it back? Do we find out how many is for and against? Do we branch Dndbeyond into different character sheets? Where does it end?
I think we should focus our energy on fixing the technical limitations of the systems before stuff like this. There are plenty of freeform fields to describe your character with. You don't roleplay with your character sheet, so whichever identity you have for your character you're completely free to narrate to your group. I don't really see a problem here. People should try not to be so sensitive in my opinion.
We have other "simple" changes suggested for the site, they've been in the works/suggested for 2+ years. Something as simple as override value and weight supporting decimals etc.
Changing a field in the code is apparently not something that gets done in a day around here. I personally don't care what it says in physical characteristics, I'm not against a change like this. I just wonder where it stops. What happens if someone else is offended by the change though? Do we change it back? Do we find out how many is for and against? Do we branch Dndbeyond into different character sheets? Where does it end?
I think we should focus our energy on fixing the technical limitations of the systems before stuff like this. There are plenty of freeform fields to describe your character with. You don't roleplay with your character sheet, so whichever identity you have for your character you're completely free to narrate to your group. I don't really see a problem here. People should try not to be so sensitive in my opinion.
I know DNDBeyond isn't known for their expedience. However, I've seen DNDBeyond fix/change similar things quite quickly - less than a week or a few days before pushing a change live.
As for when to stop making changes because people are offended or something detracts from their experience on your platform. My personal line would be when someone is offended because of their own intolerance/prejudice. The reality is when DNDBeyond and/or WotC decide it isn't something they want to do. This isn't really a slippery slope type of problem.
In the scenario you provided, 2 people being offended about something and wanting different changes, if neither of them is offended due to their own bigotry, you find another solution that both can agree on. Solutions to these sorts of problems are rarely binary in real life there's usually a middle ground or something neither party thought of.
An example of where branching the sheet/site is what you want to accommodate opposite needs would be dark/light mode for accessibility. Now we have the option of either on the character sheet and hopefully on the rest of the site sooner™ than later. There are other things I would branch sites to like languages to include as many people as possible (not suggesting that here anytime soon). Most things don't require that sort of solution though.
Even in this thread we have multiple solutions. In this case I can't think of a reason someone would be upset by this change or any need to branch - we could come up with many more hypotheticals for other situations but those aren't relevant to this particular feedback.
It seems kinda of a stretch that this here should be an issue...
...Noone is more "right" than the other when it comes to what they're offended by...
...People should try not to be so sensitive in my opinion.
The issue is simple they are labeling gender as a physical characteristic when it's not.
I would argue that there is a "more right" when it comes to being offended based on the reason someone is offended. If they're offended because of their own or others experience of being mistreated versus if they are offended because of their own prejudices/bigotry - the former being obviously legitimate, the latter not.
I could be wrong but it seems the biggest complaint is other things should be a priority. I believe it's highly likely that DNDBeyond's team is capable of simultaneously working on the limitations of this site and providing this change without a noticeable delay to the larger projects. I have already admitted it may be more difficult/time consuming than my belief if spaghetti code is a problem but it should still be simple in comparison to the large projects (which would suffer from the same problem).
Are there other minor changes that need to be done that should take priority? Are there so many little things that they have to pick and choose between them if they want to get the big things done? Maybe and even likely - DNDBeyond's team probably has that information but we don't. Even if something isn't a priority for DNDBeyond I don't think that means people should be less sensitive and not want changes to things that remind them of bigotry they/others may face in real life.
It’s not just one person. Now it’s two people who are offended and hurt by it. How many do we need before it officially gets designated as a problem needs fixin’? Would three people be enough? Or four perhaps? When is it enough people offended by something before it becomes a problem needs to be addressed?
If we were to react to everything that anyone go offended by, then we couldn't do anything at all. There's probably at least 1 person that's offended that someone else is offended. Or there would be at least 1 person that would be offended by the change imposed by another person which was offended.
You see where this is going?
Noone is more "right" than the other when it comes to what they're offended by. So therefore, if two people are offended and want two different changes, which change do you pick?
Again, if those saying that Orcs and Drow are offensive were deemed “more right” than everyone who says that shouldn’t be an issue, then why not this?!? What makes that “more right” and this “less right” in any way shape or form?!? You? Are you the arbiter?!?
What makes my pain less valid than anyone else’s?!?
I don't see/understand the argument against changing this. Why would anyone (not speaking to anyone specific here) be against improving other people's experience if it doesn't detract from others. It also should be a rather simple change assuming there isn't too much spaghetti. It wouldn't delay other projects. See spoiler tag for how I would personally like it implemented.
How to get your dice to look like the ones in my profile picture and a full site dark mode.
Tutorial thread by Hyrkali
I cannot argue, that would in fact be one way to eliminate the source of this particular confusion.
Although, my personal preference would be to not only do that, but also make separate entries for both sex and gender and let people decide individually which to fill out if not both or if either at all, and how for fill it out for themselves. That would be the most inclusive option I can imagine. It’ll never happen though because it’s not how WotC does it, and they ain’t gonna do another errata again so soon just for that.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Isn't there a freeform field somewhere that you can put whatever in that you choose?
It seems kinda of a stretch that this here should be an issue. Whatever you want your character to be you just narrate to your group.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
If we were to react to everything that anyone go offended by, then we couldn't do anything at all. There's probably at least 1 person that's offended that someone else is offended. Or there would be at least 1 person that would be offended by the change imposed by another person which was offended.
You see where this is going?
Noone is more "right" than the other when it comes to what they're offended by. So therefore, if two people are offended and want two different changes, which change do you pick?
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
We have other "simple" changes suggested for the site, they've been in the works/suggested for 2+ years. Something as simple as override value and weight supporting decimals etc.
Changing a field in the code is apparently not something that gets done in a day around here. I personally don't care what it says in physical characteristics, I'm not against a change like this. I just wonder where it stops. What happens if someone else is offended by the change though? Do we change it back? Do we find out how many is for and against? Do we branch Dndbeyond into different character sheets? Where does it end?
I think we should focus our energy on fixing the technical limitations of the systems before stuff like this. There are plenty of freeform fields to describe your character with. You don't roleplay with your character sheet, so whichever identity you have for your character you're completely free to narrate to your group. I don't really see a problem here. People should try not to be so sensitive in my opinion.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
I know DNDBeyond isn't known for their expedience. However, I've seen DNDBeyond fix/change similar things quite quickly - less than a week or a few days before pushing a change live.
As for when to stop making changes because people are offended or something detracts from their experience on your platform. My personal line would be when someone is offended because of their own intolerance/prejudice. The reality is when DNDBeyond and/or WotC decide it isn't something they want to do. This isn't really a slippery slope type of problem.
In the scenario you provided, 2 people being offended about something and wanting different changes, if neither of them is offended due to their own bigotry, you find another solution that both can agree on. Solutions to these sorts of problems are rarely binary in real life there's usually a middle ground or something neither party thought of.
An example of where branching the sheet/site is what you want to accommodate opposite needs would be dark/light mode for accessibility. Now we have the option of either on the character sheet and hopefully on the rest of the site sooner™ than later. There are other things I would branch sites to like languages to include as many people as possible (not suggesting that here anytime soon). Most things don't require that sort of solution though.
Even in this thread we have multiple solutions. In this case I can't think of a reason someone would be upset by this change or any need to branch - we could come up with many more hypotheticals for other situations but those aren't relevant to this particular feedback.
The issue is simple they are labeling gender as a physical characteristic when it's not.
I would argue that there is a "more right" when it comes to being offended based on the reason someone is offended. If they're offended because of their own or others experience of being mistreated versus if they are offended because of their own prejudices/bigotry - the former being obviously legitimate, the latter not.
I could be wrong but it seems the biggest complaint is other things should be a priority. I believe it's highly likely that DNDBeyond's team is capable of simultaneously working on the limitations of this site and providing this change without a noticeable delay to the larger projects. I have already admitted it may be more difficult/time consuming than my belief if spaghetti code is a problem but it should still be simple in comparison to the large projects (which would suffer from the same problem).
Are there other minor changes that need to be done that should take priority? Are there so many little things that they have to pick and choose between them if they want to get the big things done? Maybe and even likely - DNDBeyond's team probably has that information but we don't. Even if something isn't a priority for DNDBeyond I don't think that means people should be less sensitive and not want changes to things that remind them of bigotry they/others may face in real life.
How to get your dice to look like the ones in my profile picture and a full site dark mode.
Tutorial thread by Hyrkali
Again, if those saying that Orcs and Drow are offensive were deemed “more right” than everyone who says that shouldn’t be an issue, then why not this?!? What makes that “more right” and this “less right” in any way shape or form?!? You? Are you the arbiter?!?
What makes my pain less valid than anyone else’s?!?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting