I'd expect part of the issue is DDB will always be mostly seen as a character management tool, because that is the primary use for players and players typically always outnumber the DMs at the table (even if you have other DMs playing).
Generally speaking, players don't need to reference things all the time, so DDB being a good reference tool isn't of as much value to them (outside of their character) as it is to a DM. Many players expect the DM to make the final calling on rules or how things will work out at the table, despite what the rules say as well (and rightly so, as that is a core part of the DMs job).
The campaign tools on the other hand aren't something that is immediately accessible to see how it will play out (past an idea), only the entire group investing in the tools use will really show it's value to that group. That core aspect is up against the way the group/DM has already been doing things for however long they have been doing it for.
As it is DDB could offer all the tools in the world to help run a campaign, but at the end of the day unless it does a sound job of managing player characters, the campaign tools may just be avoided for doing things in whatever manner works already for the current group.
Isn't the point of the forum (and specifically the feedback section of the forum) to show them what we want? By explaining what we like about the other sheet they could possibly emulate it? It really just seems like most people here are telling me I am wrong (despite the fact that i have spent at least a hundred dollars on the DnD beyond system as well as all the physical copies of the books) for explaining what i like about those other things, and what i feel is missing in DnD beyond? It is sad, because the dnd community is mostly open to criticism but this forum seems to be against that conversation. I have love for all of you and the DnD community, but it feels like I am unwelcome for looking at something differently than you guys.
Isn't the point of the forum (and specifically the feedback section of the forum) to show them what we want? By explaining what we like about the other sheet they could possibly emulate it? It really just seems like most people here are telling me I am wrong (despite the fact that i have spent at least a hundred dollars on the DnD beyond system as well as all the physical copies of the books) for explaining what i like about those other things, and what i feel is missing in DnD beyond? It is sad, because the dnd community is mostly open to criticism but this forum seems to be against that conversation. I have love for all of you and the DnD community, but it feels like I am unwelcome for looking at something differently than you guys.
The staff here are all about hearing what improvement ideas you have on the toolset. Please, explain what you like and dislike about what is being offered, as numerous changes have been made in accordance with prior feedback. It is only in feedback which they hear how the tools should develop.
I want to echo that I think it's good that critical posts are allowed here from the searching I've done. It's the only way to make the product better and it's good to see that criticism that is constructive is acceptable.
I don't see this as complaining. Is it wrong to provide feedback? I think the product could use these features. Offline functionality is coming so it isn't much to ask that it be implemented. If you lose internet you have access too what you are paying for. You pay a subscription so you have a right to say what you would like to see.
There are ways to provide feedback, and the way the OP does it is far from respectful. If he did it in a respectful manner, I could even agree, but alas, he did not
There are ways to provide feedback, and the way the OP does it is far from respectful. If he did it in a respectful manner, I could even agree, but alas, he did not
1. The PDF used on D&DB is not nearly as effective as the editable PDF. Perhaps make it cleaner and easier to read.
2. You can not make a character from the PHB without purchasing content from D&DB. In my opinion this is wrong and it feels like I'm being nickle and dimmed. The PHB is a core book, you can not make a character or play the game without it.
3. For additional books like Volo's, Xanathar's or Sword Coast I'm all for purchasing additional content since these books are basically ad-ons and not necessary to play the game.
4. There are too many drop downs and sub-menus when making a character. I would suggest looking at and reviewing how the 4th Edition D&D version of the character builder achieved the same thing. The interface was cleaner and made more sense.
I understand this is a work in progress, and I'm not trying to be harsh, but as someone who's played the game for decades without online tools I can certainly say that in its current form D&DB is overpriced and unnecessary. Hopefully the product gets better with time.
2. You can not make a character from the PHB without purchasing content from D&DB. In my opinion this is wrong and it feels like I'm being nickle and dimmed. The PHB is a core book, you can not make a character or play the game without it.
I totally understand your point of view here and there are plenty of threads debating that, but I will just clarify that the PHB is not required to play the game. The basic rules+SRD (https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules) are free and available in the character builder and compendium without any purchases, and include everything in the PHB except for specific subclasses, subraces, backgrounds, spells, etc; and note that all of these (except subclasses, but that's coming) can be recreated in the homebrew system for free for private use.
I understand this is a work in progress, and I'm not trying to be harsh, but as someone who's played the game for decades without online tools I can certainly say that in its current form D&DB is overpriced and unnecessary. Hopefully the product gets better with time.
Just curious is all, but what is regular price for licensed D&D book content, if D&D Beyond is overpriced?
Just curious is all, but what is regular price for licensed D&D book content, if D&D Beyond is overpriced?
I think it's like I said before, people aren't taking into account that you get a full digital copy of the book, access to the database of monsters, items, and spells, and the ability to share the content with all of your players with a subscription. They just see it as a character builder, and for that, yeah, it's overpriced.
But to actually answer your question, you can get D&D on Fantasy Grounds which comes with digital access to the content and the whole thing prepped on a virtual tabletop for about the same price as Beyond. $25 a book seems the going rate, with Amazon charging $30 but you get a physical version, and Roll20 and game stores being the ones overcharging at $50 a pop. I'm not sure game stores can really compete with Beyond's offering, and in some sense that's unfair to them since they provide a place to actually play.
Just curious is all, but what is regular price for licensed D&D book content, if D&D Beyond is overpriced?
I think it's like I said before, people aren't taking into account that you get a full digital copy of the book, access to the database of monsters, items, and spells, and the ability to share the content with all of your players with a subscription. They just see it as a character builder, and for that, yeah, it's overpriced.
But to actually answer your question, you can get D&D on Fantasy Grounds which comes with digital access to the content and the whole thing prepped on a virtual tabletop for about the same price as Beyond. $25 a book seems the going rate, with Amazon charging $30 but you get a physical version, and Roll20 and game stores being the ones overcharging at $50 a pop. I'm not sure game stores can really compete with Beyond's offering, and in some sense that's unfair to them since they provide a place to actually play.
Also, it is not game stores or Roll20 overcharging, as the ~50$ pricetag is the suggested price from WotC itself, so if anything it is amazon being able to provide discounted prices for whatever deal they have with WotC. If someone offers something discounted it doesn't automatically becomes the "going rate" if the company producing the item suggests a retail price.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
That's quite a drop. Makes me think it might have been overpriced before, and makes it very competitive now. I'm considering FG because I'm not too invested in Roll20, though I am already very invested in D&D Beyond.
That's quite a drop. Makes me think it might have been overpriced before, and makes it very competitive now. I'm considering FG because I'm not too invested in Roll20, though I am already very invested in D&D Beyond.
I'd be inclined to suggest you to wait a bit more. It had been asked in the past if DDB would ever provide a VVT, and while the reply was a resounding "Nope", they did say they are looking into possible integrations with VVTs, specifically Roll20.
So it might be that in the near-ish future you'd be able to use some of the DDB content in Roll20.
DISCLAIMER: this is, at this point int time, only speculation based on what replies had been given months ago, I do not personally have any additional info on this, so take my post with a teaspoon of salt.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I'd be inclined to suggest you to wait a bit more. It had been asked in the past if DDB would ever provide a VVT, and while the reply was a resounding "Nope", they did say they are looking into possible integrations with VVTs, specifically Roll20.
So it might be that in the near-ish future you'd be able to use some of the DDB content in Roll20.
DISCLAIMER: this is, at this point int time, only speculation based on what replies had been given months ago, I do not personally have any additional info on this, so take my post with a teaspoon of salt.
Can you link me to the posts you've seen on the subject? I've not followed DDB development.
I'd be inclined to suggest you to wait a bit more. It had been asked in the past if DDB would ever provide a VVT, and while the reply was a resounding "Nope", they did say they are looking into possible integrations with VVTs, specifically Roll20.
So it might be that in the near-ish future you'd be able to use some of the DDB content in Roll20.
DISCLAIMER: this is, at this point int time, only speculation based on what replies had been given months ago, I do not personally have any additional info on this, so take my post with a teaspoon of salt.
Can you link me to the posts you've seen on the subject? I've not followed DDB development.
I could not find the original Staff reply on this (there's a LOT of staff posts, and I unfortunately do not have the time to look into all of them to fin the one), but here you have another thread on this with replies from mods confirming things have been taken into consideration and confirmed (at least as an initial intent) integration with roll20 and fantasy grounds.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
The DNDBeyond character generator is way too complicated, and having to buy all that content to make even a basic character is a rip off. They also should tell you how much the PHB and other books are before you buy them!
Except my 12 year old son, managed to create a perfectly good 5th Edition dragonborn sorcerer with minimal input from me, despite only having played 4th Edition rules once about three years ago (Just about the time I stopped playing, not coincidentally!) He has spent exactly nothing with DNDBeyond. I have the PHB, and he is in my campaign, so he can access my PHB and another player's XGTE. Admittedly, I have to pay way over a dollar a week to allow this!
Oh, apparently they put the price of the books next to them in the marketplace, it's that figure with a $ symbol in front of it. A bit sneaky, but I suppose it keeps the lawyers off their backs.
Speaking as someone who was writing up character sheets before the photo-copier was invented* I can tell you that this sort of online service is purely a luxury. If you believe it is too expensive, you are probably right; save your money and feed your kids instead. Or upgrade your iphone 8. Phone in your vote to a televised talent show, or buy a $10 pair of jeans for $120.
But if you make the choice to buy into this millionaire lifestyle, at least be civil when giving feedback.
*maybe a slight exaggeration, but photo-copied character sheets were a luxury not a given back then.
Notes: removed off-topic comment that caused thread to start to derail
I'm still intrigued by the feedback that the character builder is difficult to use. From some of the earlier discussion in this thread it sounds like it's not necessarily that it's difficult to use, but different than what some people are used to/prefer. Personally, I find it the easiest character builder I've ever used, but I never used the 4E tools so I guess maybe that was better. I personally find DDB to be leagues better and easier than OrcPub (and MPMB, insofar as that's a character builder--which isn't exactly right).
Notes: part of post deleted - please stay on topic
I'd expect part of the issue is DDB will always be mostly seen as a character management tool, because that is the primary use for players and players typically always outnumber the DMs at the table (even if you have other DMs playing).
Generally speaking, players don't need to reference things all the time, so DDB being a good reference tool isn't of as much value to them (outside of their character) as it is to a DM. Many players expect the DM to make the final calling on rules or how things will work out at the table, despite what the rules say as well (and rightly so, as that is a core part of the DMs job).
The campaign tools on the other hand aren't something that is immediately accessible to see how it will play out (past an idea), only the entire group investing in the tools use will really show it's value to that group. That core aspect is up against the way the group/DM has already been doing things for however long they have been doing it for.
As it is DDB could offer all the tools in the world to help run a campaign, but at the end of the day unless it does a sound job of managing player characters, the campaign tools may just be avoided for doing things in whatever manner works already for the current group.
- Loswaith
Isn't the point of the forum (and specifically the feedback section of the forum) to show them what we want? By explaining what we like about the other sheet they could possibly emulate it? It really just seems like most people here are telling me I am wrong (despite the fact that i have spent at least a hundred dollars on the DnD beyond system as well as all the physical copies of the books) for explaining what i like about those other things, and what i feel is missing in DnD beyond? It is sad, because the dnd community is mostly open to criticism but this forum seems to be against that conversation. I have love for all of you and the DnD community, but it feels like I am unwelcome for looking at something differently than you guys.
[ Site Rules & Guidelines ] --- [ Homebrew Rules & Guidelines ]
Send me a message with any questions or concerns
The moderators here have been lovely that was not targeted towards you.
I want to echo that I think it's good that critical posts are allowed here from the searching I've done. It's the only way to make the product better and it's good to see that criticism that is constructive is acceptable.
I don't see this as complaining. Is it wrong to provide feedback? I think the product could use these features. Offline functionality is coming so it isn't much to ask that it be implemented. If you lose internet you have access too what you are paying for. You pay a subscription so you have a right to say what you would like to see.
There are ways to provide feedback, and the way the OP does it is far from respectful. If he did it in a respectful manner, I could even agree, but alas, he did not
Constructive Criticisms:
1. The PDF used on D&DB is not nearly as effective as the editable PDF. Perhaps make it cleaner and easier to read.
2. You can not make a character from the PHB without purchasing content from D&DB. In my opinion this is wrong and it feels like I'm being nickle and dimmed. The PHB is a core book, you can not make a character or play the game without it.
3. For additional books like Volo's, Xanathar's or Sword Coast I'm all for purchasing additional content since these books are basically ad-ons and not necessary to play the game.
4. There are too many drop downs and sub-menus when making a character. I would suggest looking at and reviewing how the 4th Edition D&D version of the character builder achieved the same thing. The interface was cleaner and made more sense.
I understand this is a work in progress, and I'm not trying to be harsh, but as someone who's played the game for decades without online tools I can certainly say that in its current form D&DB is overpriced and unnecessary. Hopefully the product gets better with time.
[ Site Rules & Guidelines ] --- [ Homebrew Rules & Guidelines ]
Send me a message with any questions or concerns
DM for the Adventures in Erylia Podcast
Where five friends sit around the table and record themselves playing Dungeons and Dragons
Also, it is not game stores or Roll20 overcharging, as the ~50$ pricetag is the suggested price from WotC itself, so if anything it is amazon being able to provide discounted prices for whatever deal they have with WotC.
If someone offers something discounted it doesn't automatically becomes the "going rate" if the company producing the item suggests a retail price.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
It had been asked in the past if DDB would ever provide a VVT, and while the reply was a resounding "Nope", they did say they are looking into possible integrations with VVTs, specifically Roll20.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
My two nickels:
The DNDBeyond character generator is way too complicated, and having to buy all that content to make even a basic character is a rip off. They also should tell you how much the PHB and other books are before you buy them!
Except my 12 year old son, managed to create a perfectly good 5th Edition dragonborn sorcerer with minimal input from me, despite only having played 4th Edition rules once about three years ago (Just about the time I stopped playing, not coincidentally!)
He has spent exactly nothing with DNDBeyond. I have the PHB, and he is in my campaign, so he can access my PHB and another player's XGTE. Admittedly, I have to pay way over a dollar a week to allow this!
Oh, apparently they put the price of the books next to them in the marketplace, it's that figure with a $ symbol in front of it. A bit sneaky, but I suppose it keeps the lawyers off their backs.
Speaking as someone who was writing up character sheets before the photo-copier was invented* I can tell you that this sort of online service is purely a luxury. If you believe it is too expensive, you are probably right; save your money and feed your kids instead. Or upgrade your iphone 8. Phone in your vote to a televised talent show, or buy a $10 pair of jeans for $120.
But if you make the choice to buy into this millionaire lifestyle, at least be civil when giving feedback.
*maybe a slight exaggeration, but photo-copied character sheets were a luxury not a given back then.
Roleplaying since Runequest.
I'm still intrigued by the feedback that the character builder is difficult to use. From some of the earlier discussion in this thread it sounds like it's not necessarily that it's difficult to use, but different than what some people are used to/prefer. Personally, I find it the easiest character builder I've ever used, but I never used the 4E tools so I guess maybe that was better. I personally find DDB to be leagues better and easier than OrcPub (and MPMB, insofar as that's a character builder--which isn't exactly right).
DM: The Cult of the Crystal Spider (Currently playing Storm King's Thunder)
Player: The Knuckles of Arth - Lemire (Tiefling Rogue 5/Fighter 1)