I purchased DnD Beyond in December. So far, I am extremely disappointed in the product. Here are some of the reasons:
1) The character builder is horrible. It does not calculate appropriate to hit values, it is difficult to navigate, and is overall a clumsy product. I did build a basic character in the "free" version, but that does not come close to being able to evaluate more complex character builds. So I bought the content ($300+). So far, I have two characters built and as I mentioned earlier, it is difficult and frustrating. I much prefer something like HeroForge, while not optimal, is much much better. I wanted to go with this product because it would have all the content added as it was released.
2) When the characters are built, and you export the character sheet, it does not put everything into it. For example, I have created a Hexblade. I had to create "custom" weapons in the tool to enter what my to hit values would be when using my Hexblade with my curse, and another for when I am using my pact blade alone. First, I should not have to build these, the builder should create them automatically. Second, I have to MANUALLY CALCULATE my to hits, manually adding in each of the bonuses I might have. (I thought this was being done on a computer...apparently the thought of the computer doing the calculations never crossed the developer's minds.)
3) When exporting the character sheets, the generated PDF does not include the custom weapons I built (see #2)! Instead, I am given and editable PDF, where I can MANUALLY TYPE ALL OF THE STUFF THAT I PREVIOUSLY HAD TO MANUALLY CALCULATE AND ENTER INTO THE CHARACTER BUILDER (no, the caps lock was not on, it was intentional).
4) There is no support in the character builder for Adventurer's League. I have been part of WoTC's organized play since it started as the RPGA. It is frustrating to me that I cannot limit the resources each character can utilize by character. In other words, to abide by the PHB+1 rule of AL. Additionally, the reference material (spells, races, classes, etc.) do not state from which source the content is from. For example, Bladesingers should say it is from SCAG, Hexblades from XGtE, Bonfire cantrip from EE, etc.
I have listed many things that are bad about DnD Beyond, mostly with the character builder (I suggest the product owners take a look at other builders as a resource). However, the content within the DnD Beyond tool as a reference is very good and accessible. The glaring flaw of the builder, makes is worthless and really feels like I wasted my money.
Thank you for your feedback and for being an early adopter of the tools!
The new character sheet will completely change what the current format is and many of the concerns you have will be addressed when it releases. Short Descriptions will be added in both the digital sheet and the pdf export. There will be additional export options as well (formats, views, etc). These changes are set to occur before the end of the first quarter.
AL support has always been something the team wants to add to the campaign management section. It'll be a toggle similar to what we have for Critical Role or UA content.
Thanks for sticking around - The tools are just going to get better and staff is aware of the concerns you have mentioned, that's why those concerns are on the immediate set of priorities.
It is a shame that this very expensive product is unable to handle functions that were built into MorePurpleMoreBetter's free sheet long ago, and a number of other apps. I mean, many of us are double paying for content here, since we own the books, simply to have access to a character builder. You'd think one of the first things done would be to actually look at what is already out there and at least match it, rather than forcing those to be taken down while putting out an inferior product.
Also, anyone who pays IS entitled to give their thoughts on the product. It's not like WOTC / Twitch is giving us this for free, they are charging us quite a bit.
First I want to say just because someone is giving feedback that you don't agree with doesn't mean they are wrong or entitled or whatever word you want to use to describe them. Pointing out the issues with a product is how it becomes better, if we just tell them everything is fine, what will improve?
Anyway, I think most of your complaints are going to resolved in the elusive "Character sheet revamp" which has been talked about for months and yet still seems far off (by my standards) -- I say this because the live dev stream said it would be here "in the coming months." My number 1 complaint about DNDBeyond is the speed of development. It's constantly brought up by BadEye that they will never be fast enough to please everyone, and while yes that's true, I just feel like it is still an issue.
The great thing about DNDBeyond though is that they definitely listen to their customers. The staff (mostly BadEye and Hartless, but a few others are active as well) are constantly on the forums providing updates, asking us for clarity in our requests, and assuring us that the things we ask for are coming. Not only are they telling us this, but it has been proven that they listen in the updates that have been given -- things that most of the userbase here didn't like were adjusted to meet the standards we wanted multiple times -- from things like the monster stat blocks looking as they do in the books (originally they looked completely different) to updating the header menus to a better format/style. This is huge, and gives me great confidence in what this could be as a product, it's just taking longer than I would like or expect. They also respond on twitter, and they do have the live dev stream every month where he answers common questions on the forums as well as takes questions asked live.
It is a shame that this very expensive product is unable to handle functions that were built into MorePurpleMoreBetter's free sheet long ago, and a number of other apps. I mean, many of us are double paying for content here, since we own the books, simply to have access to a character builder. You'd think one of the first things done would be to actually look at what is already out there and at least match it, rather than forcing those to be taken down while putting out an inferior product.
Also, anyone who pays IS entitled to give their thoughts on the product. It's not like WOTC / Twitch is giving us this for free, they are charging us quite a bit.
A few points.
Calling one of the most affordable, and most bang for your buck, ways to get D&D products "very expensive" is misleading at best. The game is either "very expensive" no matter how you are getting it so it's not fair to imply that being "very expensive" is a unique trait to D&D Beyond, or D&D Beyond isn't "very expensive" by virtue of being relatively cheap compared to other ways to get D&D Products.
Sure, the character sheet aspect of D&D Beyond can't do everything MPMB's sheet does - but there are also things that D&D Beyond does that MPMB's sheet doesn't, and I mean more than just actually include all the rules info without breaking laws and infringing upon trademarks.
D&D Beyond had zero to do with MPMB's sheet attracting the attention of WotC's legal team. That is entirely down to MPMB's choice to include content in the sheet that is not allowed (and use trademarks without permission, which WotC has to stop when they know it's happening or they will loose their legal claim to those trademarks, because trademarks are weird like that).
My take on this has been completely different, I guess. I saw DND Beyond as a legal means of getting books on my laptop, iPad or iPhone. What I paid for was access to content. And I absolutely love DND Beyond for this. It is exactly what I expected. I also own physical books, but I no longer use them. Let’s be honest, D&D is inherently expensive. In the past you would have bought the core books, then any modules you wanted, paper, dice, notebooks and so on. It all adds up. When I got back into the game, I knew I was going to be spending some. And I think DND Beyond has been a great value for what it is. The content is beautiful, and I have access to it all. On my laptop or iPad. How cool is that?
Anything above and beyond the books to me is almost gravy. The character sheet has had some issues, but overall is quite good. I have stopped using other iPad programs and am using DND Beyond for my character and when I’m DMing. I would love to see the initiative tracker completed and other things, but lets be fair to DND Beyond, they aren’t making money providing these to you. It is just an additional benefit.
I love DND Beyond, and am excited to see where it goes. I am looking forward to 2018 with DND Beyond!!
It is a shame that this very expensive product is unable to handle functions that were built into MorePurpleMoreBetter's free sheet long ago, and a number of other apps. I mean, many of us are double paying for content here, since we own the books, simply to have access to a character builder. You'd think one of the first things done would be to actually look at what is already out there and at least match it, rather than forcing those to be taken down while putting out an inferior product.
Also, anyone who pays IS entitled to give their thoughts on the product. It's not like WOTC / Twitch is giving us this for free, they are charging us quite a bit.
A few points.
Calling one of the most affordable, and most bang for your buck, ways to get D&D products "very expensive" is misleading at best. The game is either "very expensive" no matter how you are getting it so it's not fair to imply that being "very expensive" is a unique trait to D&D Beyond, or D&D Beyond isn't "very expensive" by virtue of being relatively cheap compared to other ways to get D&D Products.
Sure, the character sheet aspect of D&D Beyond can't do everything MPMB's sheet does - but there are also things that D&D Beyond does that MPMB's sheet doesn't, and I mean more than just actually include all the rules info without breaking laws and infringing upon trademarks.
D&D Beyond had zero to do with MPMB's sheet attracting the attention of WotC's legal team. That is entirely down to MPMB's choice to include content in the sheet that is not allowed (and use trademarks without permission, which WotC has to stop when they know it's happening or they will loose their legal claim to those trademarks, because trademarks are weird like that).
So I'll respond to points 1 and 3. I'll concede 2 with the caveat that I, as an experienced player, would rather have a legal version of MPMB's sheet features than the hold your hand character generation with limited functionality of DNDB. But that's just my opinion. It'd be nice if there were both options.
For point 1, many of us already own the content though. So sure, if I was just buying the books on DNDB, it is cheaper than buying physical copies. That's not super useful right now for many of us, due to the poor mobile support at the moment. Maybe when the app actually gets public. So essentially, for many of us, you are paying for the ability to use the content you already own in a legal online character generator. And the price we pay for that IS expensive, considering how much we already shelled out for the books. Not to mention the restrictions if we don't also buy a subscription.
For point 3, MPMB's sheet was on the DMSGuild, which explicitly allowed use of the copyrighted material. It was on there for quite a while. It was not until XGTE was set to go live on DNDB that DMSGuild took it down with a different interpretation of their rules than had been applied before. (That is, because the sheet does not add anything new but is just a tool for accessing what is already out there, it isn't welcome on DMSGuild). But it had been one of the top selling/downloaded products on DMSGuild for a long time. It had been approved by DMSGuild staff in the past. It seems very obvious to me that the sudden shift in rules interpretations and the subsequent decision to take it down was due to fear that many players would continue to ignore DNDB if there was another option to make characters online based on XGTE material.
I agree that having access to digital content for the published materials IS a great benefit. The package of D&D Beyond was sold as the access to the digital material AND the access to a fully integrated character builder that would be updated as new content is released. Fo rthose that aren't only DMs but are also players (I'm about 50/50), it is important to have that feature within the framework. What is there, is difficult to use (see my comments above).
To be told "it's coming in the first quarter" doesn't really give me warm fuzzies. Exactly what is coming? From the response, it won't include AL integration. I want to be optimistic, but from prior years of paying for the online character builder of 4E, promises are not worth much. WotC should publish what will be included. (I also know this is not feasible. I have my own development company and I know how priorities can shift during a release cycle.)
From what BadEye has said in the Q&A streams, AL integration is actually an easy thing for them to add, but they have been told to hit the brakes by WotC because there are updates coming to AL soon that would make adding it now futile, since certain things will be changing soon. That's at least how I have come to understand it.
All of your other concerns are valid and have been addressed. BadEye also said that the staff is very unhappy with the PDF export as it currently exists. I'm not sure if the order of bullet points listed in the Q&A represents the order of priority, but I believe the team is focused on getting a fully functional mobile app out now, and then the character revamp is next on the list. Trust me, I'm anxious for it too. If I had my way, those priorities would be flipped, but I'm content for now because I do still get a lot of use out of the service as it is.
Ray, I find significance in your feedback. It's really great to start a healthy discussion about your friction with a product that you believed in enough to purchase and buy access to. Tabletop gaming is both an affordable and expensive hobby; for most of us, buying the books several times is definitely unavoidable not only in the digital realm. I see this in audiobooks and e-books as well, as an unfortunate truth, but it's important for these products to be easy to use and work as intended.
It's definitely hard when something is said "it's coming" will never be satisfactory to anyone anxiously awaiting a product. Priorities can definitely shift, but also knowing you own a development company, you'll probably recognize as well that not everything is perfect on the first release and that all products (software too) are iterative. Tools are constantly undergoing maintenance, upgrades, design (new features, redesign), testing (usability, functional, performance, memory, security) using feedback like what you've provided. One of the greatest mental leaps as a designer is knowing that we don't know it all the first time around, and the journey is significantly iterative. We can't know it all so we keep iterating, going, until we solve the problem or know the best way to design and fix it.
@subsistcyber is living proof that I'm not fit for moderating. My fuse is way to short to handle this kind of entitlement.
Tell me about it. My rage-o-metre hits 11 half the time I'm reading through the forums and see yet another one of these types of threads. Give me a ban-hammer and I'd go berserk.
Ray, I find significance in your feedback. It's really great to start a healthy discussion about your friction with a product that you believed in enough to purchase and buy access to. Tabletop gaming is both an affordable and expensive hobby; for most of us, buying the books several times is definitely unavoidable not only in the digital realm. I see this in audiobooks and e-books as well, as an unfortunate truth, but it's important for these products to be easy to use and work as intended.
It's definitely hard when something is said "it's coming" will never be satisfactory to anyone anxiously awaiting a product. Priorities can definitely shift, but also knowing you own a development company, you'll probably recognize as well that not everything is perfect on the first release and that all products (software too) are iterative. Tools are constantly undergoing maintenance, upgrades, design (new features, redesign), testing (usability, functional, performance, memory, security) using feedback like what you've provided. One of the greatest mental leaps as a designer is knowing that we don't know it all the first time around, and the journey is significantly iterative. We can't know it all so we keep iterating, going, until we solve the problem or know the best way to design and fix it.
I can understand the initial product not being perfect, especially if you are developing a new innovative product. On the character generation/creation side, it is not an innovative concept where you are creating something from scratch. There are many generators out there (Hero Labs, MPBM's sheet, other sheets, even WotC's 4e generator) that could provide examples and SHOULD have been included in the initial product.
Is it fair to ask that it be complete at first? Well, for the cost of the content that includes the generator, I would expect more. Right now, I can have 6 characters and have to pay a monthly charge for more than that. For the monthly fee I can create more poor quality character sheets. Sheets that do not have all of the abilities of the classes/races that I chose for my characters. A sheet that doesn't have the "to hit" and "damage" bonuses calculated correctly.
I expect that there will be bugs and issues as a new product is rolled out. However, I expect a functional, usable product for which I am being charged. If the released product was "as intended" and the remaining missing functionality is "iterative enhancements", then this should be complete about the time 8e is released.
From a purely paying user point of view, your claims, while theoretically correct, have a couple of issues, imho.
- Why would you spend 300+$, as it seems you have, on something you can test endlessly without paying a single cent? (granted, you have the 6 character slots limitation, but to test out something you do not really need to keep all 6 characters you create as test) It seems to me like an at least questionable economic choice (I myself, a quite fervent supporter of DDB, spent quite some time testing it before dumping a considerable amount of money into it);
- You seem imply that the tools here are basically useless without all the content bought from the marketplace, which is a pretty narrow point of view, imho. You can use the tools independently of the content you buy and the subscription you have, you are just limited to the Basic Rules content and ALL the homebrew things people are creating and that you yourself can create. Technically speaking, as soon as the subclass homebrew functionality will be integrated, you do not need to spend a dime on the marketplace and can create all the subclasses you want, even from the published material, and use them privately in your campaigns. That is quite far from absolutely needing to spend 300+$ in the marketplace to use the tools.
- You say the digital sheet does not calculate stuff correctly, two questions on this: could you please provide an actual example? are you aware that, should you feel some numbers are off, you are able to modify whatever parameter you want and override the basic calculation?
- I can agree on the PDF export being quite ugly and of relatively little use without further input after export. That is something that the team recognised and admitted was more of a placeholder than anything else. It's going to be changed soon anyway.
- The product itself is perfectly usable, so much so that there are thousand of people using it every day. Is it perfect? Certainly not. Did they ever claim it would be perfect from the start? I don't seem to recall such a claim ever being made. Could they have gone live with a more polished product? Certainly, but I bet there was quite some pressure from the community and maybe even WotC for DDB to go live when it did. Did they force people to buy anything when they went live in order to use the site and its tools? Not that I have seen.
- On the "no AL support" they said from the beginning that there would be no AL support at launch and that it would come with time. On this, BadEye shared in a post some time ago that the integration is coming, but they are waiting for WotC to officialise a series of changes before going ahead.
So, again, I understand your arguments, but they look to me you are ignoring quite some factors and details (I might be wrong, and if I am I apologise). I do not mean to be antagonistic in the least, but your messages to me really look like you are unsatisfied with a purchase you made almost "on a whim" and now regret because you did not take the time to properly see if this is what you really wanted or expected.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Well, to be fair, the initial advertised product was the digital sheet. That does have all of the details and rules. I take a tablet to the game I play in and use that instead of pencil and paper. The best part with that is I can leave my books at home too, as all of the information is right there. The PDF export was a feature that was added later per user request. So I think it was definitely an afterthought, which is why it is being overhauled now along with all of the requested features of the digital sheet as well.
A mod edited my reply. I said that he could say those things without being disrespectful towards the DnDB team7
They do so to keep confrontations and possible spill over into an argument to a minimum on here. Thankfully too! I feel like, minus a few instances here and there; this is one of the least toxic places on the internet anymore. All thanks to the Devs and Mods. :)
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"...Debts must always be paid, sometimes in more than blood and gold. But this is Ordo Ursa," Ren places his hand on Erakas's chest, right where the Dragonborn's heart is. "Right here. And it always has been and always will be. Don't ever forget that. Because I won't."
Serandis Mendaen (Aereni Elven Rogue/maybe one day Wizard)- Project Point Playtest
I think there's a ton of potential with D&DB, but for now I've decided to cap myself at the $55.00 I've spent so far. The character builder is clumsy and over complicated, with too many drop-down boxes and subheadings. And, once the character is created and exported to PDF, I still have to make edits to the PDF because the information is too jumbled to read. It's faster and cheaper to use the editable PDF character sheet to create a character, which for all intents and purposes shouldn't be the case if I'm using D&DB. I've used the 4e character builder when it was available and found that interface much easier to use.
@RaYG: It's a tough problem, and one that D&D Beyond decided to solve in a way that actively competes with how I've always played D&D with any group I've been in: the rules are simply the basis for our characters and we add, extend, and modify on top of that. I've resigned myself to the fact that DDB probably won't meet my needs, so instead treat it as a digital reference. I'm waiting to see if the character sheet revamp addresses the gaps we have in our characters.
I've found the best solution is the purchase the content here, subscribe so that I can share the content with my group, and then use dicecloud.com to create characters as it provides the flexibility in character creation that our group needs. The downside is that it won't generate PDFs and you have to manually handle the AL stuff you're interested in.
I've found this approach greater helps my frustrations here, YMMV. ;)
To me the argument of 'If you are using a different character sheet/creator that has access to non-SRD content, then you are using an illegal product' missed the point.
Why do people choose to pay for Netflix and Hulu over pirating? Not because pirating is illegal, but because it's EASIER than pirating. They are paying money to have a better experience than black market back alley internet shenanigans.
If you are going to charge a decent sum of money for access to an online character creator, then you damn well better make it easier and at least AS FUNCTIONAL as the free non-legal alternatives. It's basic business sense in the age of the internet.
And whenever some of us actually point out HOW IT IS INFERIOR, at best we get met with 'It's getting improved "sometime"'. More often it's 'You don't UNDERSTAND!!!!! It's tough to make a product as functional as those already made sheets! Don't be ungrateful! Don't be entitled! Also, I don't even like those sheets!'
It sends a message that the video streaming company WOTC hired to build something completely unrelated doesn't actually know what their product is, doesn't know what the competition, legal or otherwise, has put out, doesn't really have a solid plan for improvement, and just wants to grab as much money in the beginning because they know that eventually most people, aside from the worst apologists, will catch on that it will ALWAYS be an inferior product.
I purchased DnD Beyond in December. So far, I am extremely disappointed in the product. Here are some of the reasons:
1) The character builder is horrible. It does not calculate appropriate to hit values, it is difficult to navigate, and is overall a clumsy product. I did build a basic character in the "free" version, but that does not come close to being able to evaluate more complex character builds. So I bought the content ($300+). So far, I have two characters built and as I mentioned earlier, it is difficult and frustrating. I much prefer something like HeroForge, while not optimal, is much much better. I wanted to go with this product because it would have all the content added as it was released.
2) When the characters are built, and you export the character sheet, it does not put everything into it. For example, I have created a Hexblade. I had to create "custom" weapons in the tool to enter what my to hit values would be when using my Hexblade with my curse, and another for when I am using my pact blade alone. First, I should not have to build these, the builder should create them automatically. Second, I have to MANUALLY CALCULATE my to hits, manually adding in each of the bonuses I might have. (I thought this was being done on a computer...apparently the thought of the computer doing the calculations never crossed the developer's minds.)
3) When exporting the character sheets, the generated PDF does not include the custom weapons I built (see #2)! Instead, I am given and editable PDF, where I can MANUALLY TYPE ALL OF THE STUFF THAT I PREVIOUSLY HAD TO MANUALLY CALCULATE AND ENTER INTO THE CHARACTER BUILDER (no, the caps lock was not on, it was intentional).
4) There is no support in the character builder for Adventurer's League. I have been part of WoTC's organized play since it started as the RPGA. It is frustrating to me that I cannot limit the resources each character can utilize by character. In other words, to abide by the PHB+1 rule of AL. Additionally, the reference material (spells, races, classes, etc.) do not state from which source the content is from. For example, Bladesingers should say it is from SCAG, Hexblades from XGtE, Bonfire cantrip from EE, etc.
I have listed many things that are bad about DnD Beyond, mostly with the character builder (I suggest the product owners take a look at other builders as a resource). However, the content within the DnD Beyond tool as a reference is very good and accessible. The glaring flaw of the builder, makes is worthless and really feels like I wasted my money.
Ray Goodman
Thank you for your feedback and for being an early adopter of the tools!
The new character sheet will completely change what the current format is and many of the concerns you have will be addressed when it releases. Short Descriptions will be added in both the digital sheet and the pdf export. There will be additional export options as well (formats, views, etc). These changes are set to occur before the end of the first quarter.
AL support has always been something the team wants to add to the campaign management section. It'll be a toggle similar to what we have for Critical Role or UA content.
Thanks for sticking around - The tools are just going to get better and staff is aware of the concerns you have mentioned, that's why those concerns are on the immediate set of priorities.
Thanks!
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@subsistcyber is living proof that I'm not fit for moderating. My fuse is way to short to handle this kind of entitlement.
@RayG you know you can make the exact same statement
It is a shame that this very expensive product is unable to handle functions that were built into MorePurpleMoreBetter's free sheet long ago, and a number of other apps. I mean, many of us are double paying for content here, since we own the books, simply to have access to a character builder. You'd think one of the first things done would be to actually look at what is already out there and at least match it, rather than forcing those to be taken down while putting out an inferior product.
Also, anyone who pays IS entitled to give their thoughts on the product. It's not like WOTC / Twitch is giving us this for free, they are charging us quite a bit.
First I want to say just because someone is giving feedback that you don't agree with doesn't mean they are wrong or entitled or whatever word you want to use to describe them. Pointing out the issues with a product is how it becomes better, if we just tell them everything is fine, what will improve?
Anyway, I think most of your complaints are going to resolved in the elusive "Character sheet revamp" which has been talked about for months and yet still seems far off (by my standards) -- I say this because the live dev stream said it would be here "in the coming months." My number 1 complaint about DNDBeyond is the speed of development. It's constantly brought up by BadEye that they will never be fast enough to please everyone, and while yes that's true, I just feel like it is still an issue.
The great thing about DNDBeyond though is that they definitely listen to their customers. The staff (mostly BadEye and Hartless, but a few others are active as well) are constantly on the forums providing updates, asking us for clarity in our requests, and assuring us that the things we ask for are coming. Not only are they telling us this, but it has been proven that they listen in the updates that have been given -- things that most of the userbase here didn't like were adjusted to meet the standards we wanted multiple times -- from things like the monster stat blocks looking as they do in the books (originally they looked completely different) to updating the header menus to a better format/style. This is huge, and gives me great confidence in what this could be as a product, it's just taking longer than I would like or expect. They also respond on twitter, and they do have the live dev stream every month where he answers common questions on the forums as well as takes questions asked live.
How do you get a one-armed goblin out of a tree?
Wave!
My take on this has been completely different, I guess. I saw DND Beyond as a legal means of getting books on my laptop, iPad or iPhone. What I paid for was access to content. And I absolutely love DND Beyond for this. It is exactly what I expected. I also own physical books, but I no longer use them. Let’s be honest, D&D is inherently expensive. In the past you would have bought the core books, then any modules you wanted, paper, dice, notebooks and so on. It all adds up. When I got back into the game, I knew I was going to be spending some. And I think DND Beyond has been a great value for what it is. The content is beautiful, and I have access to it all. On my laptop or iPad. How cool is that?
Anything above and beyond the books to me is almost gravy. The character sheet has had some issues, but overall is quite good. I have stopped using other iPad programs and am using DND Beyond for my character and when I’m DMing. I would love to see the initiative tracker completed and other things, but lets be fair to DND Beyond, they aren’t making money providing these to you. It is just an additional benefit.
I love DND Beyond, and am excited to see where it goes. I am looking forward to 2018 with DND Beyond!!
A mod edited my reply. I said that he could say those things without being disrespectful towards the DnDB team7
I agree that having access to digital content for the published materials IS a great benefit. The package of D&D Beyond was sold as the access to the digital material AND the access to a fully integrated character builder that would be updated as new content is released. Fo rthose that aren't only DMs but are also players (I'm about 50/50), it is important to have that feature within the framework. What is there, is difficult to use (see my comments above).
To be told "it's coming in the first quarter" doesn't really give me warm fuzzies. Exactly what is coming? From the response, it won't include AL integration. I want to be optimistic, but from prior years of paying for the online character builder of 4E, promises are not worth much. WotC should publish what will be included. (I also know this is not feasible. I have my own development company and I know how priorities can shift during a release cycle.)
From what BadEye has said in the Q&A streams, AL integration is actually an easy thing for them to add, but they have been told to hit the brakes by WotC because there are updates coming to AL soon that would make adding it now futile, since certain things will be changing soon. That's at least how I have come to understand it.
All of your other concerns are valid and have been addressed. BadEye also said that the staff is very unhappy with the PDF export as it currently exists. I'm not sure if the order of bullet points listed in the Q&A represents the order of priority, but I believe the team is focused on getting a fully functional mobile app out now, and then the character revamp is next on the list. Trust me, I'm anxious for it too. If I had my way, those priorities would be flipped, but I'm content for now because I do still get a lot of use out of the service as it is.
Ray, I find significance in your feedback. It's really great to start a healthy discussion about your friction with a product that you believed in enough to purchase and buy access to. Tabletop gaming is both an affordable and expensive hobby; for most of us, buying the books several times is definitely unavoidable not only in the digital realm. I see this in audiobooks and e-books as well, as an unfortunate truth, but it's important for these products to be easy to use and work as intended.
It's definitely hard when something is said "it's coming" will never be satisfactory to anyone anxiously awaiting a product. Priorities can definitely shift, but also knowing you own a development company, you'll probably recognize as well that not everything is perfect on the first release and that all products (software too) are iterative. Tools are constantly undergoing maintenance, upgrades, design (new features, redesign), testing (usability, functional, performance, memory, security) using feedback like what you've provided. One of the greatest mental leaps as a designer is knowing that we don't know it all the first time around, and the journey is significantly iterative. We can't know it all so we keep iterating, going, until we solve the problem or know the best way to design and fix it.
From a purely paying user point of view, your claims, while theoretically correct, have a couple of issues, imho.
- Why would you spend 300+$, as it seems you have, on something you can test endlessly without paying a single cent? (granted, you have the 6 character slots limitation, but to test out something you do not really need to keep all 6 characters you create as test)
It seems to me like an at least questionable economic choice (I myself, a quite fervent supporter of DDB, spent quite some time testing it before dumping a considerable amount of money into it);
- You seem imply that the tools here are basically useless without all the content bought from the marketplace, which is a pretty narrow point of view, imho.
You can use the tools independently of the content you buy and the subscription you have, you are just limited to the Basic Rules content and ALL the homebrew things people are creating and that you yourself can create. Technically speaking, as soon as the subclass homebrew functionality will be integrated, you do not need to spend a dime on the marketplace and can create all the subclasses you want, even from the published material, and use them privately in your campaigns. That is quite far from absolutely needing to spend 300+$ in the marketplace to use the tools.
- You say the digital sheet does not calculate stuff correctly, two questions on this: could you please provide an actual example? are you aware that, should you feel some numbers are off, you are able to modify whatever parameter you want and override the basic calculation?
- I can agree on the PDF export being quite ugly and of relatively little use without further input after export. That is something that the team recognised and admitted was more of a placeholder than anything else. It's going to be changed soon anyway.
- The product itself is perfectly usable, so much so that there are thousand of people using it every day. Is it perfect? Certainly not. Did they ever claim it would be perfect from the start? I don't seem to recall such a claim ever being made. Could they have gone live with a more polished product? Certainly, but I bet there was quite some pressure from the community and maybe even WotC for DDB to go live when it did. Did they force people to buy anything when they went live in order to use the site and its tools? Not that I have seen.
- On the "no AL support" they said from the beginning that there would be no AL support at launch and that it would come with time. On this, BadEye shared in a post some time ago that the integration is coming, but they are waiting for WotC to officialise a series of changes before going ahead.
So, again, I understand your arguments, but they look to me you are ignoring quite some factors and details (I might be wrong, and if I am I apologise).
I do not mean to be antagonistic in the least, but your messages to me really look like you are unsatisfied with a purchase you made almost "on a whim" and now regret because you did not take the time to properly see if this is what you really wanted or expected.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Well, to be fair, the initial advertised product was the digital sheet. That does have all of the details and rules. I take a tablet to the game I play in and use that instead of pencil and paper. The best part with that is I can leave my books at home too, as all of the information is right there. The PDF export was a feature that was added later per user request. So I think it was definitely an afterthought, which is why it is being overhauled now along with all of the requested features of the digital sheet as well.
"...Debts must always be paid, sometimes in more than blood and gold. But this is Ordo Ursa," Ren places his hand on Erakas's chest, right where the Dragonborn's heart is. "Right here. And it always has been and always will be. Don't ever forget that. Because I won't."
Serandis Mendaen (Aereni Elven Rogue/maybe one day Wizard)- Project Point Playtest
I think there's a ton of potential with D&DB, but for now I've decided to cap myself at the $55.00 I've spent so far. The character builder is clumsy and over complicated, with too many drop-down boxes and subheadings. And, once the character is created and exported to PDF, I still have to make edits to the PDF because the information is too jumbled to read. It's faster and cheaper to use the editable PDF character sheet to create a character, which for all intents and purposes shouldn't be the case if I'm using D&DB. I've used the 4e character builder when it was available and found that interface much easier to use.
20D
@RaYG: It's a tough problem, and one that D&D Beyond decided to solve in a way that actively competes with how I've always played D&D with any group I've been in: the rules are simply the basis for our characters and we add, extend, and modify on top of that. I've resigned myself to the fact that DDB probably won't meet my needs, so instead treat it as a digital reference. I'm waiting to see if the character sheet revamp addresses the gaps we have in our characters.
I've found the best solution is the purchase the content here, subscribe so that I can share the content with my group, and then use dicecloud.com to create characters as it provides the flexibility in character creation that our group needs. The downside is that it won't generate PDFs and you have to manually handle the AL stuff you're interested in.
I've found this approach greater helps my frustrations here, YMMV. ;)
To me the argument of 'If you are using a different character sheet/creator that has access to non-SRD content, then you are using an illegal product' missed the point.
Why do people choose to pay for Netflix and Hulu over pirating? Not because pirating is illegal, but because it's EASIER than pirating. They are paying money to have a better experience than black market back alley internet shenanigans.
If you are going to charge a decent sum of money for access to an online character creator, then you damn well better make it easier and at least AS FUNCTIONAL as the free non-legal alternatives. It's basic business sense in the age of the internet.
And whenever some of us actually point out HOW IT IS INFERIOR, at best we get met with 'It's getting improved "sometime"'. More often it's 'You don't UNDERSTAND!!!!! It's tough to make a product as functional as those already made sheets! Don't be ungrateful! Don't be entitled! Also, I don't even like those sheets!'
It sends a message that the video streaming company WOTC hired to build something completely unrelated doesn't actually know what their product is, doesn't know what the competition, legal or otherwise, has put out, doesn't really have a solid plan for improvement, and just wants to grab as much money in the beginning because they know that eventually most people, aside from the worst apologists, will catch on that it will ALWAYS be an inferior product.