even some out of the blue AD&D5e magic overhaul wouldn't bring back 2e psionics as a single class. are we really holding out for that or would a splat book with some "new" spells based on old psionic powers be enough?
as it is, they'll continue to handle 5e psionics in subclasses and feats because there's no overhauling the magic system that way. no upsetting the goose that lays the golden eggs.
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Doesn’t the Sorcerer fill the need for a character whose powers are all mental? Just select the right spells and cantrips; Telekinesis, Mage Hand, Detect Thoughts, Jump, Magic Missile, etc. and use the Metamagics which free you from needing spell components.
The one thing I miss is the Psionic Warrior from 3e. I feel that that’s how Monks should be done.
There is a psi warrior in 5e. It's not going to be 1:1 with it's predecessor but that's honestly a good thing given how 3rd was honestly terrible from a class design/balance standpoint.
Also You can just as easily argue that the paladin or hexblade is psionic if you need a MIND POWERZ MAN1!1 swinging a sword around.
I should have prefaced my statement with “that’s like saying, Fighters were awful in 1E” but I was in a hurry.
Awful, yes, but so was every class in it's own way. 1st, 2nd, AD&D the whole era was filled with inconsistent bad mechanics and gameplay. Every class had it's own XP table, Humans could do anything, everyone else was limited in both level and classes.
Theres also the fact that you can easily reflavor just about any class to be psionic:
Barbarian: literally mind over matter as you will yourself to ignore injury by tapping into vast amounts of anger.
Bard: you telepathically manipulate those around you.
Druid: You have the ability to telepathically interact with natural elements around you.
Cleric: Your god is an abstract concept that your complete belief in allows you manifest "miracles" from by force of will.
Fighter: years of discipline and intuition have given you a preternatual understanding of those around you as well as tapping into greater levels of innate instinct thus affording you an edge in combat.
Monk: Chi was literally the inspiration for the force which is basically psionics.
Paladin: you literally draw strength from a codified ideal.
Ranger: You are telepathically in tune with the natural world.
Rogue: your telepathic abilities make you better at sneaking around and manipulating others.
Sorcerer: you are literally tapping into your own mind to manifest raw psychic energy.
Warlock: an extradimensional entity has untapped a portion of your psychic abilities.
Wizard: you have studied how to utilize psionic abilties.
Like this isn't nearly as hard or convoluted as the people who want a treehouse magic system think it needs to be.
i could see a feat for certain (classes of) characters that develop psionics later: [level 4 barbarian, monk, sorcerer, warlock, or fighter] - as an Action begin concentrating. roll 1d4: while concentrating, add the number rolled + INT mod to your next skill check. if the number rolled is greater than the user's INT mod, then this action requires a rest to recharge.
if i had more time (and a bigger screen) I'd split this into different feats grouping certain skills based on separate disciplines: body augmentation (athletics, stealth), information gathering (survival, history), mind stuff (persuade, intimidate), etc. psionics isn't complete with only telepathy and telekinetics.
Small list of Psionics already in the game, there is more.
Wild Magic is psionics from AD&D, most of your charm spells, and many of your Force damage type spells.
So Wild Magic Barbarian is technically a Psionic Subclass Monk's Ki points are basically an improved version of the AD&D PSP system, all Monks are Psions
Aberrant Mind is from the Mystic UA the 5e UA for a psionic class.
Warlocks can easily be flavored psionic esp Great Old one. As some people have Systems ie more than one mind occupying the same body, you could RP the Warlock as taking the Pact from the Psionic half of their mind. Kalashtar work well with this.
Psi-Warrior from the Mystic class, Echo-Knight and Eldritch-Knight also work with the psionic theme.
Soul-Knife came from the Mystic, and you can theme a few other Rogues as Psionic.
I hated psionics in 2e. it was just magic but better because you couldn't detect it or dispel it. The limited classes of the 3/3.5e soul knife and psi warrior, IMO, were better. I would be hesitant to include psionics that was treated different than other magic in any game I was in.
AD&D = No, it was not magic back then. It was an overly complicated mess, it was both over powered and self destructive at the same time. It did a few good ideas ie one of the fist Mana systems for table top RPGs. It was however horribly designed, and impossible to build a truly powerful build with it. You also had two Abilities which were both game breaking in wording and could just as easily backfire. Yet most DMs never read the mishap rules on Psionics as they basically created a 10% chance of Total Party Kill if the Psion used Disintegrate or Detonate. Meanwhile the rest of the Abilities basically became situational feats you could buy per fight. Which was honestly great, but everyone focused on the two OP abilities.
3rd era I was running a Game Store back then, and honestly I was more impressed with Star Wars D20 than any of the other 3rd era books. Not to say I disliked the third era, it was fine, just the D20 system of games made Table Top RPGs a lot more interesting than just D&D. Which is why Hasbro has tried repeatedly to kill it, too late Hasbro.
4th ed... meh.
5th ok D&D got gud. Mystic UA was fine, as a DM I would allow it, if you have a decent Backstory.
Or we can just leave psionics in the dutbin of history, like race classes, percentile strength and THAC0.
Dustbin. And sorry to bust your bubble, but psionics has been a major part of D&D lore and gameplay from the Beginning. Also there are plenty of ways to play a psionic in 5e without having to use the Mystic class, or make a new Psionic class. Is there room for a Psionic class, yes, the real issue is, and you see this with the Mystic UA, it can do melee, tank, heal, ranged, and caster roles making it the Jack of all roles Class. And unlike the Druid or Monk it does them all really well.
To be honest few people did the math, they looked at the tables. And it was usually the DM who used the Tables, so that meant the screen was used more for the tables and less about hiding dice rolls.
even some out of the blue AD&D5e magic overhaul wouldn't bring back 2e psionics as a single class. are we really holding out for that or would a splat book with some "new" spells based on old psionic powers be enough?
as it is, they'll continue to handle 5e psionics in subclasses and feats because there's no overhauling the magic system that way. no upsetting the goose that lays the golden eggs.
Mystic was almost a thing, it failed not because it was broken, but because it was a jack of all trades class. Every Subclass of the mystic became a Subclass for the other classes, and the mystic was probably used to create the Artificer Class.
You don't need to overhaul anything to have psionics in 5e, as psionics is already here and playable.
Doesn’t the Sorcerer fill the need for a character whose powers are all mental? Just select the right spells and cantrips; Telekinesis, Mage Hand, Detect Thoughts, Jump, Magic Missile, etc. and use the Metamagics which free you from needing spell components.
The one thing I miss is the Psionic Warrior from 3e. I feel that that’s how Monks should be done.
Aberrant Mind - is the Sorcerer psion
The current also the Monk class uses Ki points, you should read up on PSP (Psionic Strength Points) it's basically the ancient ancestor of the current Ki point system. Yes it should be updated, and 5.5 (D&D 2024) should fix it... hopefully, crosses fingers, prays to Asmodeus and Jeremy Crawford, please make monks gud.
Dustbin. And sorry to bust your bubble, but psionics has been a major part of D&D lore and gameplay from the Beginning. Also there are plenty of ways to play a psionic in 5e without having to use the Mystic class, or make a new Psionic class. Is there room for a Psionic class, yes, the real issue is, and you see this with the Mystic UA, it can do melee, tank, heal, ranged, and caster roles making it the Jack of all roles Class. And unlike the Druid or Monk it does them all really well.
In the whole of D&D's history, there has been precisely 1 time when the delineation of psionics from magic actually made sense and that was Dark sun wherein they needed to have a "mystic" type class in order to satisfy people's desire for a caster archetype in a world where magic was synonymous with war crimes.
To a lesser extent 4e was able to do it as well because they had actual dedicated psychic classes and the whole conceit of 4e's mechanics was that they streamlined it to feel like you were playing an MMORPG with dedicated class roles (IE "job hats") that pigeonholed people into specific functions (Leader, Defender, Striker, Controller) and allowed for very little deviation therein.
5th's approach to this has been to simply role "psionics" into the extent class system and while some people may not like that, it's honestly the smartest way to handle this.
5th's approach to this has been to simply role "psionics" into the extent class system and while some people may not like that, it's honestly the smartest way to handle this.
I wonder if some people's desire for psionics stems in part from a desire for a specialist caster -- one who's good at a specific set of stuff, rather than the jack-of-all-tradesness of casters made with the traditional D&D magic system, which really can't be worked around. (Even if you want to take only a themed set of spells, you pretty much always run out of options before you run out of spells to prep. You're also choosing to make a weaker character just for theme, which rubs people the wrong way, and you don't get anything for it.)
I wonder if some people's desire for psionics stems in part from a desire for a specialist caster
I think it's fair to say that the problem with current implementation is that D&D doesn't do specialist casters well, so using the current implementation building a themed psionic caster just feels like an inferior wizard, but I think they do want that specific theme.
It is the usual problem: How do you make such a class in such a way that it fits in with everything else, is still interesting and sufficiently unique and not OP?
I like the idea of a psychic class but I don’t think we will see it until a new edition comes out. The 2024 update is just that, an update to 5E, so it won’t happen there. Because I think the only way to make it work is to get rid of all the “psychic” spells like detect thoughts, telekinesis. Psychic damage spells, etc. and move them to class features or something akin to warlock invocations or Artifice’s infusions that you get to pick in a limited fashion. The main class would have some basic abilities that could scale and the subclasses would focus on a type like telepathy/mind reading (mental influence), telekinesis (object influence) or psychic combat.
5th's approach to this has been to simply role "psionics" into the extent class system and while some people may not like that, it's honestly the smartest way to handle this.
I wonder if some people's desire for psionics stems in part from a desire for a specialist caster -- one who's good at a specific set of stuff, rather than the jack-of-all-tradesness of casters made with the traditional D&D magic system, which really can't be worked around. (Even if you want to take only a themed set of spells, you pretty much always run out of options before you run out of spells to prep. You're also choosing to make a weaker character just for theme, which rubs people the wrong way, and you don't get anything for it.)
I mean, people do this all the time. There are multiple classes that do this whole specialist thing really well, those being Fighter (who tend to go all in on a specific combat roll and weapon), Barbarian (I'd guess somewhere around half or more of barbarians have been bear totem because having the ultra super power to not fall down is great) and warlock (who typically maximize the value of eldrtich blast).
And as I've pointed out if someone said they wanted to make their characters ability to do these things "psionic" then my response would be and I quote
I like the idea of a psychic class but I don’t think we will see it until a new edition comes out. The 2024 update is just that, an update to 5E, so it won’t happen there. Because I think the only way to make it work is to get rid of all the “psychic” spells like detect thoughts, telekinesis. Psychic damage spells, etc. and move them to class features or something akin to warlock invocations or Artifice’s infusions that you get to pick in a limited fashion. The main class would have some basic abilities that could scale and the subclasses would focus on a type like telepathy/mind reading (mental influence), telekinesis (object influence) or psychic combat.
So, Putting aside how you'd need to gut multiple other classes in order to make something like this work, the other thing to remember is that in the whole of 5e's run up to this point there has been a grand whopping total of 1 Class added to the game that wasn't part of the OG PHB that was released in 2014 and that was the Artificer. Everything else has been a sub-class, background or race option but they've been incredibly reticient to do so because amongst other things you need to be prepared to iterate on that system going forward which get's really, really hard to do if you make it super niche like "I use my mind powers to give the dragon IBS".
5th's approach to this has been to simply role "psionics" into the extent class system and while some people may not like that, it's honestly the smartest way to handle this.
I wonder if some people's desire for psionics stems in part from a desire for a specialist caster -- one who's good at a specific set of stuff, rather than the jack-of-all-tradesness of casters made with the traditional D&D magic system, which really can't be worked around. (Even if you want to take only a themed set of spells, you pretty much always run out of options before you run out of spells to prep. You're also choosing to make a weaker character just for theme, which rubs people the wrong way, and you don't get anything for it.)
I mean, people do this all the time. There are multiple classes that do this whole specialist thing really well, those being Fighter (who tend to go all in on a specific combat roll and weapon), Barbarian (I'd guess somewhere around half or more of barbarians have been bear totem because having the ultra super power to not fall down is great) and warlock (who typically maximize the value of eldrtich blast).
And as I've pointed out if someone said they wanted to make their characters ability to do these things "psionic" then my response would be and I quote
I like the idea of a psychic class but I don’t think we will see it until a new edition comes out. The 2024 update is just that, an update to 5E, so it won’t happen there. Because I think the only way to make it work is to get rid of all the “psychic” spells like detect thoughts, telekinesis. Psychic damage spells, etc. and move them to class features or something akin to warlock invocations or Artifice’s infusions that you get to pick in a limited fashion. The main class would have some basic abilities that could scale and the subclasses would focus on a type like telepathy/mind reading (mental influence), telekinesis (object influence) or psychic combat.
So, Putting aside how you'd need to gut multiple other classes in order to make something like this work, the other thing to remember is that in the whole of 5e's run up to this point there has been a grand whopping total of 1 Class added to the game that wasn't part of the OG PHB that was released in 2014 and that was the Artificer. Everything else has been a sub-class, background or race option but they've been incredibly reticient to do so because amongst other things you need to be prepared to iterate on that system going forward which get's really, really hard to do if you make it super niche like "I use my mind powers to give the dragon IBS".
I’m not sure why you would need to gut multiple classes to make this work. And I also said this would have to be in a 6th edition which is probably 10+ years away unless D&D sales takes a nose dive after the next few years. Then everything would be built alongside each other so there shouldn’t be a need to gut anything.
I’m not sure why you would need to gut multiple classes to make this work. And I also said this would have to be in a 6th edition which is probably 10+ years away unless D&D sales takes a nose dive after the next few years. Then everything would be built alongside each other so there shouldn’t be a need to gut anything.
In the end, it boils down to a large number of people deciding that psychic abilities "don't fit D&D" (despite the large number of inherently psychic monsters that appear as signature elements of the IP) and deciding that you can "flavor" anything as anything else. It doesn't matter if your character doesn't feel right, doesn't play right, and is a useless detriment to the table because you chose Flunff(C) over actually making an effective character. I.e. something the game severely punishes. Doing psychic abilities right would take design effort, and that's just not acceptable.
The Psionic Energy Dice pool that the psi warrior and soulknife get is the start of an idea for doing psychic abilities differently. It's simply implemented very strangely, with the actual die mattering or not mattering on seemingly random whim. The issue, of course, is that neither subclass is allowed to do anything actually meaningful with their psychic abilities, because as with all subclasses for all classes they have to be so minor, basic, and ineffectual that they don't change the gameplay of the base class they're attached to in the slightest.
Your Psi Warrior doesn't play or feel like a telekinetic martial badass manipulating the battlefield to their whim - they play and feel like a basic-ass boring fighter completely identical to every single other basic-ass boring fighter everyone has ever played in D&D (other than Battlemaster) that maybe gets to do one single vaguely telekinetic-adjacentish thing once per day. If you're lucky. And the DM's feeling generous. Soulknife same deal - it's just a basic-ass rogue whose entire schtick is "you get what amounts to an Uncommon-rarity magic item you can never upgrade or improve and which your entire subclass revolves around", and otherwise doesn't get to do anything vaguely adjacentish to psychic powers or abilities at all. Because subclasses in 5e have to be universally weak and ineffectual.
Which is, of course, the point for the people saying psychic characters are fine as nothing but subclass also-rans to other classes - that way psychic characters all get to be universally weak and ineffectual. Magic users can break physics over their knee, but dead gods help you if you want a kineticist that can simply achieve parity with one pointy-eared dude with a longbow. That's just one step too much.
In the end, it boils down to a large number of people deciding that psychic abilities "don't fit D&D" (despite the large number of inherently psychic monsters that appear as signature elements of the IP) and deciding that you can "flavor" anything as anything else. It doesn't matter if your character doesn't feel right, doesn't play right, and is a useless detriment to the table because you chose Flunff(C) over actually making an effective character. I.e. something the game severely punishes. Doing psychic abilities right would take design effort, and that's just not acceptable.
Or it's a case that the dev's have looked at the number of reasons to do this (tiny number of players that want it, one niche setting where the differences between psionics and magic is relevent) and concluded that the cons (needing to create a whole new system for it that is distinct from other extent magic archetypes beyond simply being psychic while also not being in a position to invalidate other ones and how Dark sun being developed by the modern team would be a complete Fiasco) are simply too severe to justify it's existance.
Your Psi Warrior doesn't play or feel like a telekinetic martial badass manipulating the battlefield to their whim - they play and feel like a basic-ass boring fighter completely identical to every single other basic-ass boring fighter everyone has ever played in D&D (other than Battlemaster) that maybe gets to do one single vaguely telekinetic-adjacentish thing once per day. If you're lucky. And the DM's feeling generous. Soulknife same deal - it's just a basic-ass rogue whose entire schtick is "you get what amounts to an Uncommon-rarity magic item you can never upgrade or improve and which your entire subclass revolves around", and otherwise doesn't get to do anything vaguely adjacentish to psychic powers or abilities at all. Because subclasses in 5e have to be universally weak and ineffectual.
If you want to run around as an unstoppable psi-warrior juggernaught then there are other, better systems for it then current D&D; Shadowrun, pretty much any of the Star wars games, Exalted, Mage the Ascension, Rogue Trader...
Meanwhile if you want to play something that is actually half way balanced then Good news! WotC has your back!
Which is, of course, the point for the people saying psychic characters are fine as nothing but subclass also-rans to other classes - that way psychic characters all get to be universally weak and ineffectual. Magic users can break physics over their knee, but dead gods help you if you want a kineticist that can simply achieve parity with one pointy-eared dude with a longbow. That's just one step too much.
I'm sorry that the game doesn't allow you to disintegrate your enemies at level one like it used to if you were able to make the totally legitimate roll that also made the rest of the party ablative armor for you.
In the end, it boils down to a large number of people deciding that psychic abilities "don't fit D&D"
No it doesn't. Psychic abilities absolutely fit in D&D -- they're just magic (see mind flayer: Mind Blast (Recharge 5–6). The mind flayer magicallyemits psychic energy in a 60-foot cone). The problem is that the game system doesn't encourage creating a themed spellcaster -- sure, you can fill a sorcerer or bard with only psi-themed abilities, but if you do, you're gimping yourself for no real benefit -- and the easiest way to change that is to gimp generalist spellcasters.
Also, I'd just like to note that I may be comning across as rather hostile with this, but a lot of it coms down to how no one is meaningfully articulating why we need to have a distinction between it and other more conventional forms of magic, let alone creating whole new systems built with it in mind when we already *have* classes that do the things that the proponents ostensibly think the game needs.
Having a more focused caster built around doing one or two things? Warlock is right there. Class that uses a resource to overclock their abilities? Paladin, Monk and sorcerer all exist. You want someone who can use effects to influence those around you on an emotional/mental level? Cleric, Bard and Wizard are all in this category.
And it isn't like I don't have expierience with psionics from a previous system; my first expierience with 4e was during the rollout of Dark sun wherein they were showcasing Psion, Ardent and Battlemind as parts of the pre-gen classes and while they were interesting and thematic they were also built in to 4e's MMOesque power system and thus felt... very similar to the other at will/encounter/daily powers.
Also, I'd just like to note that I may be comning across as rather hostile with this, but a lot of it coms down to how no one is meaningfully articulating why we need to have a distinction between it and other more conventional forms of magic,
Well, can you explain why Clerics and Wizards need different systems? Or Wizards and Sorcerers?
Putting aside how they're still all using fundamentally the same mechanics? Sure.
A Cleric gains their power via the devotion to their deity and as a result are able to perform miracles as reward for their faith. Further, the Cleric will gain additional powers based on what aspect of the god they are extolling (IE Sune's beauty being represented by the light domain or War for Bane based on his need to dominate).
A Wizard gains their power by being the ultimate nerd: they study and read and study day after day in order to unlock the secrets of magic via sheer brain power and with time they gravitate to one of 13 "schools" of thought on how best to utilize this knowledge.
A sorcerer is an individual who was typically born with some inherent connection to magical forces and is thus able to manifest it through force of will.
A Warlock is a person who lacked any real potential for magic, but due to the machinations of some powerful entity are gifted a handful of powers that they can use as they see fit.
Now with all of that said: Please articulate why we need Psionics as it's own distinct system.
Also, I'd just like to note that I may be comning across as rather hostile with this, but a lot of it coms down to how no one is meaningfully articulating why we need to have a distinction between it and other more conventional forms of magic, let alone creating whole new systems built with it in mind when we already *have* classes that do the things that the proponents ostensibly think the game needs.
Why do we need to have a distinction between fighter and barbarian?
Why do we need to have a distinction between cleric and paladin? Or cleric and druid, for that matter?
Why do we need to have a distinction between wizard and sorcerer?
Why do we need to have a distinction between melee and ranged?
Why do we need to have a distinction between halfling and gnome?
Why do we need to have a distinction between ale and mead?
Why bother with any distinctions whatsoever in any circumstance?
The fact that you do not perceive any difference between psychic abilities and someone screaming at the top of their lungs while waving a twenty-pound bag of chalk-covered penguin spleens around in order to conjure up elementals from beyond reality to do their bidding, i.e. conventional spellcasting, does not mean there is no difference to perceive.
I'm sorry that the game doesn't allow you to disintegrate your enemies at level one like it used to if you were able to make the totally legitimate roll that also made the rest of the party ablative armor for you.
I love that this is always the counter. Someone says "you don't need psi, we have psi at home". I or others point out that the 'psi at home' is weak, underwhelming, poorly designed in many cases, and just does not live up to the character fantasy someone's after even half as well as, say, the barbarian lives up to the Conan Man-Mountain fantasy. The same someone comes back with something to the effect of "I knew all you wanted was to be super OP and ruin the game!"
No. I want psychic characters to be ******* functional. An Aberant Mind sorcerer with 'just psi spells' is not a functional character no matter how many times Pantagruel says that's the "correct" way to play. You cannot create a kineticist in D&D. You take Catapult at first level and then you're done taking new spells until fifth level and Telekinesis.
Could I homebrew a bunch of "psi spells" to fill in the gaps? Easily. But then I'm still bellowing Magic Words as loud as I possibly can while carrying around the twenty-pound bag of penguin spleens so I can use my kineticist abilities maybe three times a day tops because Spell Slots. I am, in fact, still a spellcaster. And an extremely terrible one at that.
A system not dissimilar to warlock invocations, where the character chooses new powers/enhancements to existing powers every few levels, is a better framework. The character gets basic usage of its abilities freely/at-will, but must expend a resource for Exerted abilities. I favor spending hit dice - psychic characters frequently suffer physical damage from overusing their powers, expending your vitality to fuel your abilities beyond their normal limits is wonderfully flavorful. This naturally meters the more impactful of the character's abilities because not only do you have a sharply limited number of hit dice, but those are also the same hit dice some DMs occasionally allow people to use for healing. Could also do the Psionic Energy Dice thing, just less weirdly where half the abilities don 't cost anything except they do cost something except only if you succeed unless you fail first but only if it's frog outside on a Gorbsday.
Each base power has a Basic form, which can be used at will and is tuned as such. It also has an Exertion, which costs either a hit die or a psi die to use. Later choices can offer new ways to Exert your abilities, enhancements to your powers, or let you select entirely new powers if you prefer to have a lot of minor gifts rather than one strong one. You get one choice of base power at first level to be your foundational talent. Easy. Simple. And no, I have no idea what the Mystic does, that was before my time and I don't care because everybody clearly hated it. So, new ideas.
Unless, of course, there's no reason to "reinvent the wheel". But in that case you'd better get rid of barbarians, rangers, paladins, druids, sorcerers, warlocks, artificers, gnomes, mead, and every other remotely 'duplicated' thing in all of D&D
You're right: It is underwhelming for you because you've fallen so completely in love with psionics as a concept that you aren't seeing the inherent problems with the idea and refusing to acknowledge the legitimate problems that existed when it was ostensibly a developed part of the game.
Like Christ, I wanted Knights of Solamnia to be an actual class instead of a background but you don't see me crying about it.
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even some out of the blue AD&D5e magic overhaul wouldn't bring back 2e psionics as a single class. are we really holding out for that or would a splat book with some "new" spells based on old psionic powers be enough?
as it is, they'll continue to handle 5e psionics in subclasses and feats because there's no overhauling the magic system that way. no upsetting the goose that lays the golden eggs.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Doesn’t the Sorcerer fill the need for a character whose powers are all mental? Just select the right spells and cantrips; Telekinesis, Mage Hand, Detect Thoughts, Jump, Magic Missile, etc. and use the Metamagics which free you from needing spell components.
The one thing I miss is the Psionic Warrior from 3e. I feel that that’s how Monks should be done.
There is a psi warrior in 5e. It's not going to be 1:1 with it's predecessor but that's honestly a good thing given how 3rd was honestly terrible from a class design/balance standpoint.
Also You can just as easily argue that the paladin or hexblade is psionic if you need a MIND POWERZ MAN1!1 swinging a sword around.
Awful, yes, but so was every class in it's own way. 1st, 2nd, AD&D the whole era was filled with inconsistent bad mechanics and gameplay. Every class had it's own XP table, Humans could do anything, everyone else was limited in both level and classes.
I said this Here: My comments about 5e psionics.
Small list of Psionics already in the game, there is more.
Wild Magic is psionics from AD&D, most of your charm spells, and many of your Force damage type spells.
So Wild Magic Barbarian is technically a Psionic Subclass Monk's Ki points are basically an improved version of the AD&D PSP system, all Monks are Psions
Aberrant Mind is from the Mystic UA the 5e UA for a psionic class.
Warlocks can easily be flavored psionic esp Great Old one. As some people have Systems ie more than one mind occupying the same body, you could RP the Warlock as taking the Pact from the Psionic half of their mind. Kalashtar work well with this.
Psi-Warrior from the Mystic class, Echo-Knight and Eldritch-Knight also work with the psionic theme.
Soul-Knife came from the Mystic, and you can theme a few other Rogues as Psionic.
A bunch of feats... besides the obvious. Telepathic& Telekinetic. The dragon themed feats (Gift of the Gem Dragon, Aberrant Dragonmark), any of the Magic Initiate feats all feel very psionic awaking to me.
AD&D = No, it was not magic back then. It was an overly complicated mess, it was both over powered and self destructive at the same time. It did a few good ideas ie one of the fist Mana systems for table top RPGs. It was however horribly designed, and impossible to build a truly powerful build with it. You also had two Abilities which were both game breaking in wording and could just as easily backfire. Yet most DMs never read the mishap rules on Psionics as they basically created a 10% chance of Total Party Kill if the Psion used Disintegrate or Detonate. Meanwhile the rest of the Abilities basically became situational feats you could buy per fight. Which was honestly great, but everyone focused on the two OP abilities.
3rd era I was running a Game Store back then, and honestly I was more impressed with Star Wars D20 than any of the other 3rd era books. Not to say I disliked the third era, it was fine, just the D20 system of games made Table Top RPGs a lot more interesting than just D&D. Which is why Hasbro has tried repeatedly to kill it, too late Hasbro.
4th ed... meh.
5th ok D&D got gud. Mystic UA was fine, as a DM I would allow it, if you have a decent Backstory.
Dustbin. And sorry to bust your bubble, but psionics has been a major part of D&D lore and gameplay from the Beginning. Also there are plenty of ways to play a psionic in 5e without having to use the Mystic class, or make a new Psionic class. Is there room for a Psionic class, yes, the real issue is, and you see this with the Mystic UA, it can do melee, tank, heal, ranged, and caster roles making it the Jack of all roles Class. And unlike the Druid or Monk it does them all really well.
To be honest few people did the math, they looked at the tables. And it was usually the DM who used the Tables, so that meant the screen was used more for the tables and less about hiding dice rolls.
Mystic was almost a thing, it failed not because it was broken, but because it was a jack of all trades class. Every Subclass of the mystic became a Subclass for the other classes, and the mystic was probably used to create the Artificer Class.
You don't need to overhaul anything to have psionics in 5e, as psionics is already here and playable.
Aberrant Mind - is the Sorcerer psion
The current also the Monk class uses Ki points, you should read up on PSP (Psionic Strength Points) it's basically the ancient ancestor of the current Ki point system. Yes it should be updated, and 5.5 (D&D 2024) should fix it... hopefully, crosses fingers, prays to Asmodeus and Jeremy Crawford, please make monks gud.
In the whole of D&D's history, there has been precisely 1 time when the delineation of psionics from magic actually made sense and that was Dark sun wherein they needed to have a "mystic" type class in order to satisfy people's desire for a caster archetype in a world where magic was synonymous with war crimes.
To a lesser extent 4e was able to do it as well because they had actual dedicated psychic classes and the whole conceit of 4e's mechanics was that they streamlined it to feel like you were playing an MMORPG with dedicated class roles (IE "job hats") that pigeonholed people into specific functions (Leader, Defender, Striker, Controller) and allowed for very little deviation therein.
5th's approach to this has been to simply role "psionics" into the extent class system and while some people may not like that, it's honestly the smartest way to handle this.
I wonder if some people's desire for psionics stems in part from a desire for a specialist caster -- one who's good at a specific set of stuff, rather than the jack-of-all-tradesness of casters made with the traditional D&D magic system, which really can't be worked around. (Even if you want to take only a themed set of spells, you pretty much always run out of options before you run out of spells to prep. You're also choosing to make a weaker character just for theme, which rubs people the wrong way, and you don't get anything for it.)
I think it's fair to say that the problem with current implementation is that D&D doesn't do specialist casters well, so using the current implementation building a themed psionic caster just feels like an inferior wizard, but I think they do want that specific theme.
It is the usual problem: How do you make such a class in such a way that it fits in with everything else, is still interesting and sufficiently unique and not OP?
It is far easier said than done.
I like the idea of a psychic class but I don’t think we will see it until a new edition comes out. The 2024 update is just that, an update to 5E, so it won’t happen there. Because I think the only way to make it work is to get rid of all the “psychic” spells like detect thoughts, telekinesis. Psychic damage spells, etc. and move them to class features or something akin to warlock invocations or Artifice’s infusions that you get to pick in a limited fashion. The main class would have some basic abilities that could scale and the subclasses would focus on a type like telepathy/mind reading (mental influence), telekinesis (object influence) or psychic combat.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I mean, people do this all the time. There are multiple classes that do this whole specialist thing really well, those being Fighter (who tend to go all in on a specific combat roll and weapon), Barbarian (I'd guess somewhere around half or more of barbarians have been bear totem because having the ultra super power to not fall down is great) and warlock (who typically maximize the value of eldrtich blast).
And as I've pointed out if someone said they wanted to make their characters ability to do these things "psionic" then my response would be and I quote
So, Putting aside how you'd need to gut multiple other classes in order to make something like this work, the other thing to remember is that in the whole of 5e's run up to this point there has been a grand whopping total of 1 Class added to the game that wasn't part of the OG PHB that was released in 2014 and that was the Artificer. Everything else has been a sub-class, background or race option but they've been incredibly reticient to do so because amongst other things you need to be prepared to iterate on that system going forward which get's really, really hard to do if you make it super niche like "I use my mind powers to give the dragon IBS".
I’m not sure why you would need to gut multiple classes to make this work. And I also said this would have to be in a 6th edition which is probably 10+ years away unless D&D sales takes a nose dive after the next few years. Then everything would be built alongside each other so there shouldn’t be a need to gut anything.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I do not see a need to remove the psionic spells from anything.
It could just be stated that they were originally created as a copy of what some people observed psionic characters do.
It could also be stated that psionics in general are just the mere touch of the power of the gods.
You have to answer the question. Are you born with them or do you just train a little and gain a few, like a caster learns their spells and abilities.
I say your born with a few abilities and improve them as you gain level. You do not gain new ones as you go. The class needs a few limits.
Or you gain them like you do feats. Treat them and write them up like psion only feats.
The psion. A class with no subclasses. Dual class if you want more abilities.
Ideas abound.
Psions could be implemented but the true fans would not like everything about them.
In the end, it boils down to a large number of people deciding that psychic abilities "don't fit D&D" (despite the large number of inherently psychic monsters that appear as signature elements of the IP) and deciding that you can "flavor" anything as anything else. It doesn't matter if your character doesn't feel right, doesn't play right, and is a useless detriment to the table because you chose Flunff(C) over actually making an effective character. I.e. something the game severely punishes. Doing psychic abilities right would take design effort, and that's just not acceptable.
The Psionic Energy Dice pool that the psi warrior and soulknife get is the start of an idea for doing psychic abilities differently. It's simply implemented very strangely, with the actual die mattering or not mattering on seemingly random whim. The issue, of course, is that neither subclass is allowed to do anything actually meaningful with their psychic abilities, because as with all subclasses for all classes they have to be so minor, basic, and ineffectual that they don't change the gameplay of the base class they're attached to in the slightest.
Your Psi Warrior doesn't play or feel like a telekinetic martial badass manipulating the battlefield to their whim - they play and feel like a basic-ass boring fighter completely identical to every single other basic-ass boring fighter everyone has ever played in D&D (other than Battlemaster) that maybe gets to do one single vaguely telekinetic-adjacentish thing once per day. If you're lucky. And the DM's feeling generous. Soulknife same deal - it's just a basic-ass rogue whose entire schtick is "you get what amounts to an Uncommon-rarity magic item you can never upgrade or improve and which your entire subclass revolves around", and otherwise doesn't get to do anything vaguely adjacentish to psychic powers or abilities at all. Because subclasses in 5e have to be universally weak and ineffectual.
Which is, of course, the point for the people saying psychic characters are fine as nothing but subclass also-rans to other classes - that way psychic characters all get to be universally weak and ineffectual. Magic users can break physics over their knee, but dead gods help you if you want a kineticist that can simply achieve parity with one pointy-eared dude with a longbow. That's just one step too much.
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Or it's a case that the dev's have looked at the number of reasons to do this (tiny number of players that want it, one niche setting where the differences between psionics and magic is relevent) and concluded that the cons (needing to create a whole new system for it that is distinct from other extent magic archetypes beyond simply being psychic while also not being in a position to invalidate other ones and how Dark sun being developed by the modern team would be a complete Fiasco) are simply too severe to justify it's existance.
If you want to run around as an unstoppable psi-warrior juggernaught then there are other, better systems for it then current D&D; Shadowrun, pretty much any of the Star wars games, Exalted, Mage the Ascension, Rogue Trader...
Meanwhile if you want to play something that is actually half way balanced then Good news! WotC has your back!
I'm sorry that the game doesn't allow you to disintegrate your enemies at level one like it used to if you were able to make the totally legitimate roll that also made the rest of the party ablative armor for you.
No it doesn't. Psychic abilities absolutely fit in D&D -- they're just magic (see mind flayer: Mind Blast (Recharge 5–6). The mind flayer magically emits psychic energy in a 60-foot cone). The problem is that the game system doesn't encourage creating a themed spellcaster -- sure, you can fill a sorcerer or bard with only psi-themed abilities, but if you do, you're gimping yourself for no real benefit -- and the easiest way to change that is to gimp generalist spellcasters.
Also, I'd just like to note that I may be comning across as rather hostile with this, but a lot of it coms down to how no one is meaningfully articulating why we need to have a distinction between it and other more conventional forms of magic, let alone creating whole new systems built with it in mind when we already *have* classes that do the things that the proponents ostensibly think the game needs.
Having a more focused caster built around doing one or two things? Warlock is right there. Class that uses a resource to overclock their abilities? Paladin, Monk and sorcerer all exist. You want someone who can use effects to influence those around you on an emotional/mental level? Cleric, Bard and Wizard are all in this category.
And it isn't like I don't have expierience with psionics from a previous system; my first expierience with 4e was during the rollout of Dark sun wherein they were showcasing Psion, Ardent and Battlemind as parts of the pre-gen classes and while they were interesting and thematic they were also built in to 4e's MMOesque power system and thus felt... very similar to the other at will/encounter/daily powers.
Well, can you explain why Clerics and Wizards need different systems? Or Wizards and Sorcerers?
Putting aside how they're still all using fundamentally the same mechanics? Sure.
Now with all of that said: Please articulate why we need Psionics as it's own distinct system.
Why do we need to have a distinction between fighter and barbarian?
Why do we need to have a distinction between cleric and paladin? Or cleric and druid, for that matter?
Why do we need to have a distinction between wizard and sorcerer?
Why do we need to have a distinction between melee and ranged?
Why do we need to have a distinction between halfling and gnome?
Why do we need to have a distinction between ale and mead?
Why bother with any distinctions whatsoever in any circumstance?
The fact that you do not perceive any difference between psychic abilities and someone screaming at the top of their lungs while waving a twenty-pound bag of chalk-covered penguin spleens around in order to conjure up elementals from beyond reality to do their bidding, i.e. conventional spellcasting, does not mean there is no difference to perceive.
I love that this is always the counter. Someone says "you don't need psi, we have psi at home". I or others point out that the 'psi at home' is weak, underwhelming, poorly designed in many cases, and just does not live up to the character fantasy someone's after even half as well as, say, the barbarian lives up to the Conan Man-Mountain fantasy. The same someone comes back with something to the effect of "I knew all you wanted was to be super OP and ruin the game!"
No. I want psychic characters to be ******* functional. An Aberant Mind sorcerer with 'just psi spells' is not a functional character no matter how many times Pantagruel says that's the "correct" way to play. You cannot create a kineticist in D&D. You take Catapult at first level and then you're done taking new spells until fifth level and Telekinesis.
Could I homebrew a bunch of "psi spells" to fill in the gaps? Easily. But then I'm still bellowing Magic Words as loud as I possibly can while carrying around the twenty-pound bag of penguin spleens so I can use my kineticist abilities maybe three times a day tops because Spell Slots. I am, in fact, still a spellcaster. And an extremely terrible one at that.
A system not dissimilar to warlock invocations, where the character chooses new powers/enhancements to existing powers every few levels, is a better framework. The character gets basic usage of its abilities freely/at-will, but must expend a resource for Exerted abilities. I favor spending hit dice - psychic characters frequently suffer physical damage from overusing their powers, expending your vitality to fuel your abilities beyond their normal limits is wonderfully flavorful. This naturally meters the more impactful of the character's abilities because not only do you have a sharply limited number of hit dice, but those are also the same hit dice some DMs occasionally allow people to use for healing. Could also do the Psionic Energy Dice thing, just less weirdly where half the abilities don 't cost anything except they do cost something except only if you succeed unless you fail first but only if it's frog outside on a Gorbsday.
Each base power has a Basic form, which can be used at will and is tuned as such. It also has an Exertion, which costs either a hit die or a psi die to use. Later choices can offer new ways to Exert your abilities, enhancements to your powers, or let you select entirely new powers if you prefer to have a lot of minor gifts rather than one strong one. You get one choice of base power at first level to be your foundational talent. Easy. Simple. And no, I have no idea what the Mystic does, that was before my time and I don't care because everybody clearly hated it. So, new ideas.
Unless, of course, there's no reason to "reinvent the wheel". But in that case you'd better get rid of barbarians, rangers, paladins, druids, sorcerers, warlocks, artificers, gnomes, mead, and every other remotely 'duplicated' thing in all of D&D
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You're right: It is underwhelming for you because you've fallen so completely in love with psionics as a concept that you aren't seeing the inherent problems with the idea and refusing to acknowledge the legitimate problems that existed when it was ostensibly a developed part of the game.
Like Christ, I wanted Knights of Solamnia to be an actual class instead of a background but you don't see me crying about it.