High level bombing. She and her minions doing multiple runs simply emptying sacks of pebbles from 100'+ up. They could even use sacks with drawstrings as giant sling-shotguns, getting quite a spread from that height.
Oh, Tiamat (either version) can lay waste to cities just fine, I was talking about the tarrasque.
I wasn't specifically talking about power disparity. The point is that the core mechanic of "unstoppable rampaging monster" plotlines is that you cannot win by normal means, and thus have to get clever.
Fair enough, my bad for misunderstanding you.
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If we're comparing them as final bosses then tiamat is still the more interesting boss; she's the mother of all evil dragons, is worshipped on multiple worlds, has throngs of zealous worshippers and a host of powers to utilize... whereas the tarrasque is just an animal that is big and hungry.
For a scheming big bad with like, a plan etc Tiamat's better. The Tarrasque would work well for like, a Kaiju attack presented as more of a force of nature, where say you're trying to repel it before it destroys a city or something in its path.
Ok, for those of you who even think that tiamat could lose, you are litterally pitting a god against something a second level character could kill with enough time. Like, a lot of the things people put towards the tarrasue winning are more of a draw thing. 'Oh, the tarrasque can burrow' ah, yes, i too die instantly when something burries itself. First, although the tarrasque is cr 30, it is also the weakest creature to be that cr level. It has no way of doing magical damage, meaning something like a clay golem cannot be harmed by it. Second, tiamat simply can deal enough damage to kill it before it could do the same. And were talking about a fight to the death, not one where they can just run away, because then there would be no winner due to both of them being able to escape from the other. And to prove my point that a tarrasque is weaker, here is the lists of creatures from the basic rule book immune to its damage types
Immune to its claws, bite, and horn:
-Wererat
-Werewolf
-Couatl
-Wereboar
-Weretiger
-Flesh Golem
-Clay Golem
-Stone Golem
-Rakshasa
-Iron Golem
-Mummy lord
-Androsphinx
-Lich
-Kraken
-A second tarrasque
And heres creatures immune to acid from it swallowing them:
-All form of copper dragon
-All form of black dragon
-Mimics
-Black Puddings
-Clay golems
And the creature that overlaps the two is a clay golem. Meaning that not only would tiamat body a tarrasque, a clay golem that is less than 1/3 its cr could do the same job. So in conclusion, tarrasques suck when pitted against other monsters and should be reserved for player encounters or to spook the party
If One D&D fixes the Tarrasque (give it regeneration, for starters, and the ability to hurt a clay golem!), it'll be a more even fight, but ultimately, Tiamat. The Tarrasque's regeneration in 3.5 could only be stopped by casting Wish or Miracle on it while it was at -10 hitpoints before it regenerated at the start of its turn. Tiamat is a god and is by definition capable of casting Miracle. Tiamat wins.
The Tarrasque is almost immune to spells and can even bounce them back while a nice sunbeam or disintegrate spell will work just fine on Tiamat
It's the exact opposite. You can just spam save or take damage spells at the Tarrasque while flying and all the Tarrasque can do is suffer (it might burn some legendary resistances initially, which is meaningless). A level 1 flying cleric can solo the Tarrasque.
Party member at level 1: I can fly, so I can beat the tarrasque
Me (thinking): Alright, i can do one of two things: say "what if I told you the Tarrasque learned how to use its and throws rocks at you" OR pull out that stat block of absolute pain
The true terror of the Tarrasque is not its stat block or abilities, nor is it its combat potential. No matter what you do, the Tarrasque won't stay dead. Even the wish spell cannot keep a Tarrasque dead for long. It will ALWAYS regenerate from the largest remaining piece of it, even if that piece is a sub-atomic particle. It may take days or weeks but it WILL regenerate. No god or magic weapon can truly kill the Tarrasque for good.
Also the Tarrasque's stomachs are the only things in the multiverse able to permanently kill gods and destroy artifacts. When you enter the Tarrasque's third stomach, you cease to exist, no magic, no divine intervention, nothing can save you or bring you back.
Where do you get this information from? It is nowhere in the 5e stat block, and so has no currently viable basis.
The true terror of the Tarrasque is not its stat block or abilities, nor is it its combat potential. No matter what you do, the Tarrasque won't stay dead. Even the wish spell cannot keep a Tarrasque dead for long. It will ALWAYS regenerate from the largest remaining piece of it, even if that piece is a sub-atomic particle. It may take days or weeks but it WILL regenerate. No god or magic weapon can truly kill the Tarrasque for good.
Also the Tarrasque's stomachs are the only things in the multiverse able to permanently kill gods and destroy artifacts. When you enter the Tarrasque's third stomach, you cease to exist, no magic, no divine intervention, nothing can save you or bring you back.
Where do you get this information from? It is nowhere in the 5e stat block, and so has no currently viable basis.
I believe they haven't checked the new statblock and still are talking about the old one, or maybe they are talking about the lore.
The true terror of the Tarrasque is not its stat block or abilities, nor is it its combat potential. No matter what you do, the Tarrasque won't stay dead. Even the wish spell cannot keep a Tarrasque dead for long. It will ALWAYS regenerate from the largest remaining piece of it, even if that piece is a sub-atomic particle. It may take days or weeks but it WILL regenerate. No god or magic weapon can truly kill the Tarrasque for good.
Also the Tarrasque's stomachs are the only things in the multiverse able to permanently kill gods and destroy artifacts. When you enter the Tarrasque's third stomach, you cease to exist, no magic, no divine intervention, nothing can save you or bring you back.
Where do you get this information from? It is nowhere in the 5e stat block, and so has no currently viable basis.
I believe they haven't checked the new statblock and still are talking about the old one, or maybe they are talking about the lore.
They're going off 1st or 2nd Edition lore.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
people please if the tarasque were to appear in a region Tiamat had active plans do you honestly believe she would waste the energy to fight the tarasque my magic 8 ball says probably not she would not waste the effort fighting a force of nature. being a thinking being she is goig to leave it well enough alone becasue the heroes who would normally be thwarting her will now be dealing with the tarasque leaving her free to move forward her plans elsewhere.
6th lyran guard you are right i am basing my stuff on 1st and 2nd ed lore because at least the people who wrote it had a clue on how to write lore as opposed to the swill WoTC has been slinging since 3rd Ed
people please if the tarasque were to appear in a region Tiamat had active plans do you honestly believe she would waste the energy to fight the tarasque my magic 8 ball says probably not she would not waste the effort fighting a force of nature. being a thinking being she is goig to leave it well enough alone becasue the heroes who would normally be thwarting her will now be dealing with the tarasque leaving her free to move forward her plans elsewhere.
6th lyran guard you are right i am basing my stuff on 1st and 2nd ed lore because at least the people who wrote it had a clue on how to write lore as opposed to the swill WoTC has been slinging since 3rd Ed
so...your making an argument thats not been relevant for several decades now at the very least?
and no, she may not, but the argument wasnt would she fight him, but who was the better boss, which is tiamat because of her intelligence, strength and magic, she just straight up outpowers the tarrasque in every way imaginable and is intellegent too
A bit of an asisde but after re-reading of the 5e Tarrasque, aside from the lack of the regeneration ability from previous editions which I hadn't noticed before, a couple of lines struck me in the description:
"so great is its hunger that it can devour the populations of whole towns."
and
"When it awakens in answer to some inscrutable cosmic call, it rises from the depths to obliterate everything in its path."
Now for me this could mean that the Tarrasque is not meant to be used as a challenge in the same way as Tiamat (who would be the final boss of a camapign) but more of a mystery plot device. If the Tarrasque is awake and rampaging around an area why would this be? A potential answer is it is actually an extension of the Great Old One Hadar, an aspect of Hadar's hunger manifest on/in the Material Planes. So you if you face off against the Tarrasque you are likely looking at more of a mid game boss, once you've vanquished it you might have a cult of Hadar to take out and then you get to go fight all those Star Spawn cultists and other entities that worship the Elder Evils.
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in terms of power, my rankings are the same. New Tiamat has a pop-up-from-death trait, the old Tiamat has some strong abilities, and tarrasque has few useful traits.
This is not a particularly serious response but Tiamat strikes me as the more dangerous as she isn't incapacitated by a dozen Intellect Devourers....now a Tarrasque having been incpacitated by said Intellect Devourers and then 'tweaked' by Mind Flayers and controlled by an Elder Brain could be a terror to behold.
*sigh* now I have to write up stats for an Elder Brain Tarrasque...
I'll be back.
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I write homebrew and don't publish it. (evil, I know)
Oh, Tiamat (either version) can lay waste to cities just fine, I was talking about the tarrasque.
Fair enough, my bad for misunderstanding you.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.If we're comparing them as final bosses then tiamat is still the more interesting boss; she's the mother of all evil dragons, is worshipped on multiple worlds, has throngs of zealous worshippers and a host of powers to utilize... whereas the tarrasque is just an animal that is big and hungry.
Like again: it's not even really a competition.
For a scheming big bad with like, a plan etc Tiamat's better. The Tarrasque would work well for like, a Kaiju attack presented as more of a force of nature, where say you're trying to repel it before it destroys a city or something in its path.
Ok, for those of you who even think that tiamat could lose, you are litterally pitting a god against something a second level character could kill with enough time. Like, a lot of the things people put towards the tarrasue winning are more of a draw thing. 'Oh, the tarrasque can burrow' ah, yes, i too die instantly when something burries itself. First, although the tarrasque is cr 30, it is also the weakest creature to be that cr level. It has no way of doing magical damage, meaning something like a clay golem cannot be harmed by it. Second, tiamat simply can deal enough damage to kill it before it could do the same. And were talking about a fight to the death, not one where they can just run away, because then there would be no winner due to both of them being able to escape from the other. And to prove my point that a tarrasque is weaker, here is the lists of creatures from the basic rule book immune to its damage types
Immune to its claws, bite, and horn:
-Wererat
-Werewolf
-Couatl
-Wereboar
-Weretiger
-Flesh Golem
-Clay Golem
-Stone Golem
-Rakshasa
-Iron Golem
-Mummy lord
-Androsphinx
-Lich
-Kraken
-A second tarrasque
And heres creatures immune to acid from it swallowing them:
-All form of copper dragon
-All form of black dragon
-Mimics
-Black Puddings
-Clay golems
And the creature that overlaps the two is a clay golem. Meaning that not only would tiamat body a tarrasque, a clay golem that is less than 1/3 its cr could do the same job. So in conclusion, tarrasques suck when pitted against other monsters and should be reserved for player encounters or to spook the party
I play a miriad of characters at the lord's rest inn
Two things are infinite: The universe, and human stupidity; and I'm not so sure about the universe.
Scifi horror is quite the trip :) Comics and a story
#FreeDND
Tiamat is brutal
Yes
I play a miriad of characters at the lord's rest inn
Two things are infinite: The universe, and human stupidity; and I'm not so sure about the universe.
Scifi horror is quite the trip :) Comics and a story
#FreeDND
If One D&D fixes the Tarrasque (give it regeneration, for starters, and the ability to hurt a clay golem!), it'll be a more even fight, but ultimately, Tiamat. The Tarrasque's regeneration in 3.5 could only be stopped by casting Wish or Miracle on it while it was at -10 hitpoints before it regenerated at the start of its turn. Tiamat is a god and is by definition capable of casting Miracle. Tiamat wins.
Party member at level 1: I can fly, so I can beat the tarrasque
Me (thinking): Alright, i can do one of two things: say "what if I told you the Tarrasque learned how to use its and throws rocks at you" OR pull out that stat block of absolute pain
Where do you get this information from? It is nowhere in the 5e stat block, and so has no currently viable basis.
I believe they haven't checked the new statblock and still are talking about the old one, or maybe they are talking about the lore.
They're going off 1st or 2nd Edition lore.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
people please if the tarasque were to appear in a region Tiamat had active plans do you honestly believe she would waste the energy to fight the tarasque my magic 8 ball says probably not she would not waste the effort fighting a force of nature. being a thinking being she is goig to leave it well enough alone becasue the heroes who would normally be thwarting her will now be dealing with the tarasque leaving her free to move forward her plans elsewhere.
6th lyran guard you are right i am basing my stuff on 1st and 2nd ed lore because at least the people who wrote it had a clue on how to write lore as opposed to the swill WoTC has been slinging since 3rd Ed
so...your making an argument thats not been relevant for several decades now at the very least?
and no, she may not, but the argument wasnt would she fight him, but who was the better boss, which is tiamat because of her intelligence, strength and magic, she just straight up outpowers the tarrasque in every way imaginable and is intellegent too
A bit of an asisde but after re-reading of the 5e Tarrasque, aside from the lack of the regeneration ability from previous editions which I hadn't noticed before, a couple of lines struck me in the description:
"so great is its hunger that it can devour the populations of whole towns."
and
"When it awakens in answer to some inscrutable cosmic call, it rises from the depths to obliterate everything in its path."
Now for me this could mean that the Tarrasque is not meant to be used as a challenge in the same way as Tiamat (who would be the final boss of a camapign) but more of a mystery plot device. If the Tarrasque is awake and rampaging around an area why would this be? A potential answer is it is actually an extension of the Great Old One Hadar, an aspect of Hadar's hunger manifest on/in the Material Planes. So you if you face off against the Tarrasque you are likely looking at more of a mid game boss, once you've vanquished it you might have a cult of Hadar to take out and then you get to go fight all those Star Spawn cultists and other entities that worship the Elder Evils.
In terms of being a fun bossfight:
1. Fizban’s Tiamat—equivalent to 2 CR 30 monsters
2. OG Tiamat—interesting abilities
3. tarrasque—a boring pile of damage.
in terms of power, my rankings are the same. New Tiamat has a pop-up-from-death trait, the old Tiamat has some strong abilities, and tarrasque has few useful traits.
*sigh* now I have to write up stats for an Elder Brain Tarrasque...
I'll be back.
I write homebrew and don't publish it. (evil, I know)
I'm back! Elder Brain Tarrasque stats! yay!
I write homebrew and don't publish it. (evil, I know)
These stats are well designed, and also scary.
Tiamat is also immune to the tarraques attacks as they are all in the range of Tiamat’s immunities and the Tarrasques attacks aren’t magical
Chromatic (Red) Dragonborn Sorcerer, the best matchup in the game #5e
oh and I have proficiency with sickles