Salvatore has not been especially concerned with keeping his novels consistent with Forgotten Realms lore ever since 3rd Edition rolled around.
It is difficult to maintain a consistent literary world which parallels a game rules world when the game rules and background are always changing.
Yeah, not saying that it's a bad thing, just that the way things work in his books won't typically line up with how the game is set up anymore. After 3rd Edition came out, I know he kept right on using Infravision instead of using Darkvision the way that the game rules did- no idea if that ever changed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Read Fizban's it's a source book that says you have a dragon as an ancestor so yes you are part dragon. older editions didn't have that but now it is a thing.
Read Fizban's it's a source book that says you have a dragon as an ancestor so yes you are part dragon. older editions didn't have that but now it is a thing.
So ... the answer is simply that when crossing dragons with humans, the gene for darkvision isn't dominant.
Why is it dominant if one parent is an elf, and not when one parent (or ancestor, whatever) is a dragon? That's life for you. Kobolds are miniature dragon-guys, why don't they have wings? Well, for the same reason dolphins don't have legs, and ostriches have wings but can't fly, and why the platypus. Whatever helps a creature breed and survive - that's what get's passed on.
So the dragonborn who did get darkvision - back in the evolutionary past - they got too brave, and went off and died in various dungeons. Leaving only the slightly more cautious, nightblind dragonborn behind to live on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Gameplay wise, it makes sense since Dragonborn have many other abilities. But lore wise, it does make me wonder...
In the PHB, these are their "many other abilities":
Dragon's Breath, Damage Resistance, Draconic language
That's it. The language can hardly be considered an ability, and the breath is terrible.
Taking a 1 level dip in Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer rounds out the race by actually making their scales mechanically relevant, making them tougher, and making their knowledge of Draconic a bit more useful by giving them expertise on social checks with dragons. And they get spells on top of that.
But is there an actual in-lore explanation behind why Dragonborn don't have Darkvision?
Not sure. What I do know is that for the Forgotten Realms, dragonborn were a distinct species from another world called Abeir that came to Toril (the planet the Forgotten Realms setting is located on) due to the Spellplague event. They're not the same as half-dragons, who are literal crossbreeds of humanoids and dragons.
But is there an actual in-lore explanation behind why Dragonborn don't have Darkvision?
No. The only reason why lore like that would exist is if Dragonborn had once had darkvision and lost it, but that's not the case so asking that question is like asking if there's in-game lore for why dwarves don't have the ability to breathe fire.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Regardless, I still stand by my view that the race as it is in the PHB needed something more. And Fizban's did give them that, but they went back to something closer to the PHB version in the One D&D playtest, with the (ironic, given this discussion) addition of darkvision.
Why do you feel that giving them Darkvision makes them closer to the PHB version?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Why do you feel that giving them Darkvision makes them closer to the PHB version?
????
I am saying that the playtest went back to something resembling the PHB 2014 version of the race instead of what was done for them in Fizban's, but they also added darkvision to dragonborn in the playtest, despite all the fuss in this thread about giving it to dragonborn.
Why do you feel that giving them Darkvision makes them closer to the PHB version?
????
I am saying that the playtest went back to something resembling the PHB 2014 version of the race instead of what was done for them in Fizban's, but they also added darkvision to dragonborn in the playtest, despite all the fuss in this thread about giving it to dragonborn.
The way you phrased it made it sound like the addition of Darkvision made it more like the PHB version.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Why do you feel that giving them Darkvision makes them closer to the PHB version?
????
I am saying that the playtest went back to something resembling the PHB 2014 version of the race instead of what was done for them in Fizban's, but they also added darkvision to dragonborn in the playtest, despite all the fuss in this thread about giving it to dragonborn.
The way you phrased it made it sound like the addition of Darkvision made it more like the PHB version.
The PHB is the core rulebook of the game for players, and it's right here on D&D Beyond. And the Dragonborn race is free to access and read in the SRD.
Why would I say that a trait that the PHB Dragonborn literally doesn't have, and which this very thread was made to debate about, puts the playtest version closer to the PHB version?
Hence the question? I wouldn't ask if I knew the answer.
I'm not even sure why you're telling me about what the PHB is and where I can find the Dragonborn. I asked you about your statement because it was different to what I would have expected. You just intended something other than what it sounded like, that's all.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It is difficult to maintain a consistent literary world which parallels a game rules world when the game rules and background are always changing.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Yeah, not saying that it's a bad thing, just that the way things work in his books won't typically line up with how the game is set up anymore. After 3rd Edition came out, I know he kept right on using Infravision instead of using Darkvision the way that the game rules did- no idea if that ever changed.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Read Fizban's it's a source book that says you have a dragon as an ancestor so yes you are part dragon. older editions didn't have that but now it is a thing.
I don’t know why you felt the need to @ me about this. I never said that Dragonborn weren’t part dragon. I said they aren’t “Half-Dragons.” (Ya’know, like “Half-Elf” or “Half-Orc.”) Half-Dragons are something completely different than Dragonborn, they even have tails and everything: (https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters?filter-type=0&filter-search=Half dragon&filter-cr-min=&filter-cr-max=&filter-armor-class-min=&filter-armor-class-max=&filter-average-hp-min=&filter-average-hp-max=&filter-is-legendary=&filter-is-mythic=&filter-has-lair=). Half-Dragons used to be a playable race back in 3/3.5e, but not any longer.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
And dragonborn still don't qualify as dragons for the purposes of a Ranger's Favored Enemy or being hit by an enemy wielding a Dragonslayer.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
So ... the answer is simply that when crossing dragons with humans, the gene for darkvision isn't dominant.
Why is it dominant if one parent is an elf, and not when one parent (or ancestor, whatever) is a dragon? That's life for you. Kobolds are miniature dragon-guys, why don't they have wings? Well, for the same reason dolphins don't have legs, and ostriches have wings but can't fly, and why the platypus. Whatever helps a creature breed and survive - that's what get's passed on.
So the dragonborn who did get darkvision - back in the evolutionary past - they got too brave, and went off and died in various dungeons. Leaving only the slightly more cautious, nightblind dragonborn behind to live on.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Dragonborn aren’t a cross between Dragons & Humans, those are Half-Dragons and they do have darkvision.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
In the PHB, these are their "many other abilities":
Dragon's Breath, Damage Resistance, Draconic language
That's it. The language can hardly be considered an ability, and the breath is terrible.
Taking a 1 level dip in Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer rounds out the race by actually making their scales mechanically relevant, making them tougher, and making their knowledge of Draconic a bit more useful by giving them expertise on social checks with dragons. And they get spells on top of that.
Not sure. What I do know is that for the Forgotten Realms, dragonborn were a distinct species from another world called Abeir that came to Toril (the planet the Forgotten Realms setting is located on) due to the Spellplague event. They're not the same as half-dragons, who are literal crossbreeds of humanoids and dragons.
No. The only reason why lore like that would exist is if Dragonborn had once had darkvision and lost it, but that's not the case so asking that question is like asking if there's in-game lore for why dwarves don't have the ability to breathe fire.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Regardless, I still stand by my view that the race as it is in the PHB needed something more. And Fizban's did give them that, but they went back to something closer to the PHB version in the One D&D playtest, with the (ironic, given this discussion) addition of darkvision.
Why do you feel that giving them Darkvision makes them closer to the PHB version?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
????
I am saying that the playtest went back to something resembling the PHB 2014 version of the race instead of what was done for them in Fizban's, but they also added darkvision to dragonborn in the playtest, despite all the fuss in this thread about giving it to dragonborn.
Well, if OneD&D is supposed to be backwards-compatible with 5E they wouldn't want to reprint Fizban's version of Dragonborn.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The way you phrased it made it sound like the addition of Darkvision made it more like the PHB version.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The PHB is the core rulebook of the game for players, and it's right here on D&D Beyond. And the Dragonborn race is free to access and read in the SRD.
Why would I say that a trait that the PHB Dragonborn literally doesn't have, and which this very thread was made to debate about, puts the playtest version closer to the PHB version?
Hence the question? I wouldn't ask if I knew the answer.
I'm not even sure why you're telling me about what the PHB is and where I can find the Dragonborn. I asked you about your statement because it was different to what I would have expected. You just intended something other than what it sounded like, that's all.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.