Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
Sign in- Marketplace
Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
Sign in
I seem to recall folks saying WAIT TILL MONDAY! WOTC WILL RELEASE A STATEMENT! and it's Monday afternoon EST and all we've got is crickets so far. Most points that to my mind need to be made have already been made in the thread (the feudal era revenue terms, total ownership of IP, ability to change terms at will with 30 days notice), so I'm not really going to say anything further except that OGL 1.1 seems to have been written with the express consultation of IP / Patent Troll style lawyers.
The reputational damage has been done, and even if Wizards were to magically release a "fair" version of OGL 1.1 that "only" needs third party creators to sells their kidneys instead of all of their organs, we'd still know that the preferred option was the latter one. Folks who say "but you see, corps can be EVIL but not STUPID" - guys, the only thing a corporation has to do is maximise shareholder value legally. Clearly some lawyers and execs did the math and figured the golden goose wasn't laying enough eggs, so time Move Aggressively to Capture The Undermonetized Market.
As someone who plays in almost exclusively homebrew games with 5e core books providing the basic framework, there is really no way I can continue to support this platform or WOTC. I had a hero membership on DDB, which I have cancelled. I won't be buying anything in the future through this platform, and to be honest, I don't see myself ever returning to whatever shambling mess One D&D becomes.
>> #OpenDND
Yep, you cannot run a business if your entire business could be killed off in 30 days.
I was really hoping some of the leaked 1.1 was false, but too many creators have now said it is what they got. What a complete mess.
Yes, they would. But that would require CR to actually sign the 1.1 OGL, and I know the CR is not stupid, they would never agree to those terms especially as the CR team has been taken very obvious steps to consolidate and carefully control of their own IP However, while the Wildmount campaign does state that Exandria content is controlled by CR copyright, the 1.1 OGL as written could grant WotC/Hasbro the right to use any of that content royalty free. Who do you think WotC was talking about when they mentioned that it would only impact 20 content creators? CR is clearly one of those.
I don't think that WotC/Hasbro is evil or stupid, but they will 100% attempt to collect royalties from CR and attempt to exact control over their IP under the new OGL. Why not? They have a sharing agreement with the Wildmount and Netherdeep supplements, we just don't know what the split is. My guess is that it already heavily favorable to WotC/Hasbro.
My point was not to determine the likelihood of this happening, only that it COULD and their OGL would arguably give them the power to do so. D&D has been part of the CR tagline since episode 1, I don't think that CR (or WotC/Hasbro) wants to change that. But CR will make a business decision on what is best for their brand AND which will place a hefty focus on protecting their own IP.
I'm hoping it's because WotC / Hasbro is in a state of reconsideration and of course. It takes time to draft and review revisions of a legal agreement.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
What makes anyone harbor the idea the Critical Roll crew are going to be dealing with the new OGL instead of a special contract that business partners are already used to using for these things?
Hi, sorry to bother you, but could you point me to this F&F please? Google isn't helping me find it.
Also, can anyone point me to this stupid document yet? Or is it still not available to see?
check ogl.battlezoo.com
You might also consider adding your name to https://www.opendnd.games/ once you read it!
#OpenDND - opendnd.games
That's the thing... evil IS stupid. I know a lot of people think that companies willing to do this sort of thing are masterful schemers working three steps ahead, but they aren't. Greed and arrogance can blind anyone, and it wouldn't be the first time a company (or government or any other group) with power decided to abuse it the moment some dumb execs or corporate lawyers decided that there was cash to be made or that they had to do so to protect the brand.
They're putting CR in a bind; agree to 1.1 and they could lose everything the moment Dumb Corporate Exec decides, or open the company to blackmail ("Use our new supplement in your campaign, Matt... be a shame if anything were to happen to your show."), or that they decide CR isn't going in the right direction. If they don't, then CR and Wizards are on a collision course, because everyone will wonder why Matt and company keep getting away with using the 1.0a OGL. And if CR jumps ship then they can't go back to Pathfinder to escape legal problems, because PF IS OGL. Or CR could make a separate agreement and tick off the fans, who are currently spitting nails at Wizards.
If you're saying that CR will only escape because of its popularity, well... that's the problem, isn't it?
It doesn't exist. (yet) The idea behind that is because SCOTUS has already already ruled that rule / procedures are not copyrightable. The original case was Baker v. Selden circa 1879.
So if rules are not copyrightable, then theoretical, you can copy the rules and just create original content and have a *new game*.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
That's the most I've seen thus far, so I thank you for that. Realistically, I'll probably be taking a step back from all this until something gives one way or the other; this whole debacle has been distressing, no matter how you look at it.
Ah. I thought you were referring to something that already exists. Well, thank you anyway.
People greatly overestimate the ease of doing this, as well as the clarity of the division between non-copyrightable procedures and copyrightable text.
100% agree. It would have to be a group effort, with a ton of legal oversite during the process.
I think it's definitely do-able, and honestly, would love to see an open sourced Linux style approach to the base D&D mechanism. Something that third party creators could use free of charge to control their IP without having to play by Hasbro's ridiculous OGL 1.1 terms.
Also, I think there would be a huge amount of momentum and support for this from the "20 companies" that will only be impacted by this.
You are correct. To the layman that is very true. You would definitely need a lawyer to define which parts are usable and which are not. The general rules can be copied, but you start to get into a gray area when it comes to spells, abilities, races, etc. Some pre-date D&D and some are direct TSR/WotC creations. You must know what is what and where the lines in the dirt would be drawn. Not to mention, someone could sue you over something that isn't even near the gray line. (Hasbro has done this several times)
That said, I have ZERO doubt it can be done especially with the TTRPG community (and it's money) behind the movement. That said, I hope it doesn't come to that. D&D has a special place in my heart dating back to my childhood. I would hate for anything negative to happen to D&D as a game as I want D&D to survive providing it doesn't become the archenemy of the TTRPG world. It's on the doorstep now.
EDIT: Actually, based on the wording of the original OGL and documented conformation from Ryan Dancey. It seems like you can outright copy the SRD and start a new game providing you remove the WotC trademarks and begin adding content ala, Pathfinder. The same way CentOS copied Redhat Linux and just changed the trademarks within the system itself.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
This is something I’ve been curious about for a while, because I’ve played around with the idea of creating a system similar to 5e, but free of the legal/copyright baggage. But that’s obviously not as simple as just copying out the mechanics and adding new flavor text around them. There’s a reason why no one has done that; even if it’s theoretically allowed, there’s a strong sense that testing the theory would be a huge risk.
I will not financially support Wizards of the Coast if they attempt to revoke any previous OGL. #opendnd
When I read the discussions here, I am impressed that everyone is being civil to everyone else without any moderator interactions. Congrats to all, I really mean that. I want to bring up things I have been thinking about today after going over what I have read since the leaks have been verified that will in my opinion affect me.
I normally have two VTT sessions every two weeks since the pandemic started up and just started a third in my home with family and friends coming here yesterday. First the setups.
A. One session hosted at Roll20 with Discord and resources are from the previous OGL.
B. One using Foundry running on a server I built with a static IP from an Internet provider.
C. One ran in home using DND Beyond with my desktop wirelessly connected to a 50 inch 4k display thru a Microsoft Wireless Display Adapter plugged into an HDMI port on it using Widows 11 Connect to a Wireless monitor option. The content comes from both resources from DND Beyond I have paid for, resources that are from the previous OGL I paid for from another place and my homebrew campaign stuff from dungeons I created over 50 years ago along with some apps and programs on the computer. I did need some updating and add ins to the DND Beyond homebrew magic items so they would go into the character sheets on DYD Beyond so I could use the Campaign and Encounter sections.
Putting aside everything about the 50k and 750k sections of groups and people and if those numbers change and looking ONLY at users who do not sell any content, I have come to the following conclusions that will affect my groups and I on the 13 when the new OGL goes in effect from what I have read.
First -Session A may be the least affected if Roll20 and Discord reach an agreement with Hasbro (WOTC) except I will lose content from many 3 party sources as their material will not be allowed on Roll20 or Discord because the old agreement will be nullified and I would be in violation of rules sure to be coming on Roll20 and Discord on the current OGL as of 13 January if I used materials from some company who did not sign onto the new OGL.
Second - Session B will be dead since there is NO interest from Hasbro (WOTC) in making a deal with Foundry from what I have researched. Money for server, license and static IP down the drain.
Third - Session C is interesting. Since I am wirelessly broadcasting from my computer to a tv across the room for my players and using apps and programs with that screen and my computer for the players I seem to meet the legal definition of a VTT (sounds dumb but we are talking lawyers, the law and money) and I believe I would be in violation of the rules for 13 January even though I paid for my DND Beyond top tier subscription and my source materials. In addition, I may be OK in my home created campaign materials and the materials from DND Beyond I paid for. The ones I obtained from 3 parties that were covered by the old OGL license who did not sign up for the new OGL definitely are not and would be a violation of rules to come I am sure for Hasbro’s (WOTC) VTT when it is finished and I sign up for it. The VTT Hasbro (WOTC) is building is most of the reason for this new OGL agreement from what I can determine.
People should map out in their mind what actions occur the next time they have a gaming session and think in what ways could my group or I be affected. Then remember we are talking lawyers and money so common sense left the building along with Elvis long before. If you do not think it will get that crazy then go read a copy of the OGL that is supposed to go into effect in 4 days.
Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
@RedSix -
unless you're charging for your game, you would likely NOT be affected by the OGL changes...I have my own plans when it comes to my Foundry server and would be happy to discuss low/no-cost hosting options with you if you should choose to reach out. WoTC can say whatever they like, but no one can tell you what you can do with property you've purchased and run within your home. :)
Regards
#OpenDND - opendnd.games