The $750k royalty threshold means that any competitor (that'd fall under OGL 1.1) that has a 20% profit margin cannot make more than $150k profit per year. WotC holds the right to adjust that royalty threshold as they see fit, which means that they can dictate how large the competition can be. It's not meant to get some cash out of the alleged <20 big earners, it's meant to keep them from growing. Even if a company could get to a profit margin of 25%, they'd still only be able to make $187,5k yearly profit at max. Royalties being 20-25% directly negates any profit that'd be made at those profit percentages after the threshold is reached.
Edit: That is also why they want you to report your revenue over $50k, so they can keep you at the size they want (as they can change the threshold).
it's only a royalty on an amount OVER 750k. if they make 760k, then they only owe royalties on 10k....not the whole 760.
as for your edit point.....ummm....what?
You are completely forgetting, that's REVENUE, not profit. At best there is 25% margin in the RPG industry. Basically, they are saying any company can make up to $150K PROFIT each year and EVERY CENT ABOVE THAT IS WOTC'S!
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
That might be ok, if they didn't blatantly say that they OWN YOUR WORK and can resell/rewrite/do with it as they will and you have no recourse, because you also have given away your rights to sue them or take any legal action.
Yeah it wouldn't effect many independent 3rd party creators, the other stuff like getting to use your work etc is worse for them. Paywalling stuff on Patreon is also getting shafted (free stuff public, premium version behind Patreon support). What my point affects is companies like Paizo, smaller companies like Mage Hand Press or big successful Kickstarters.
If your revenue is greater than $750k, then Hasbro doesn't want you operating under the OGL is what this really says.
No company of scale would ever agree to giving away 25% of revenue to a third party, even if it is only on revenue over $750k. You'll negotiate a new deal first.
I’m sorry. I like D&D and I’m not giving it up just because some people I never heard of can’t make money on it anymore.
D&D is not there for you to make money off of. It’s there for you to spend money on in exchange for getting a fun and enjoyable game.
Sorry if this sounds childish. I’m not an expert in business like some of you guys, but I know what I like and I really like D&D.
This isn't childish at all. It's a 100% valid point of view.
If there is one thing about life, it's that everything is relative. WotC / Hasbro view is relative to what they want to accomplish just as 3rd party content providers view is also relative. In the political world, the right and left are just relative points of view.
In the end, each of us to should follow what makes us happy in our own relative point of view.
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Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Just read the Open Game License 1.1 15-page agreement that they want people to sign.
It is springing up all over the Internet since 3 AM this morning and has been verified by several sources.
It is the scariest document I have ever seen in my life and much worse than people have been thinking in terms of liability to anyone that signs it.
It is NOT a simple case of as long as you do not do major content you are OK. In my opinion some defending this needs to read it first.
Seriously, go find it and read it yourself. I am not providing a link to it for obvious reasons. It is easy to find by limiting a search to things for the last 24 hours relating to the Open Game License 1.1
I’m sorry. I like D&D and I’m not giving it up just because some people I never heard of can’t make money on it anymore.
D&D is not there for you to make money off of. It’s there for you to spend money on in exchange for getting a fun and enjoyable game.
Sorry if this sounds childish. I’m not an expert in business like some of you guys, but I know what I like and I really like D&D.
You have in your tag that you enjoy Exandria. This new license could absolutely negatively impact Critical role. Yes, they have a shared content with CR still controlling the IP for the Wildmount supplement, but under the terms of the OGL 1.1 WotC/Hasbro could (and would) take full use of the Taldori Reborn campaign guide without paying royalties back to the CR team. So its not just companies you haven't heard of. In reality (as seen with the Wildmount supplement) CR would be in a position to warrant better terms or a better deal, but they would be absolute fools to agree to the terms of the new deal as written. But the salient point is that Exandria in its current form, would not exist had it not been for the original OGL 1.0a.
"OGL" 1.1 - If Kickstarter, Youtube and other big platforms have signed on, has the community already lost the fight?
Depends on what they agreed to and whether you're trying to use that platform. It does mean they aren't going to provide legal assistance, but they probably weren't going to anyway.
If people care, looks like creators have been sharing the full leaked draft now. It's long and I understand most won't spend the time to read the 9000 word document in full, but it's available now for those who have been asking for it.
Here's another creator - Roll for Combat (who broke the original story) - actively livestreaming the leaked content here, but they're about to wrap up now.
Having seen Hasbro in action in the past I seriously doubt they will pay any attention to any community frustrations. The suits are all about the money and nothing else is ever considered. They are a business and no matter how may customers they lose their primary concerns are more monetization of their IP and ensure the coming VTT of theirs has no completion around.
I believe the major companies that have already cut a modified deal or in the process are going to find out when they alone are left in a year with Hasbro and no longer have the rest of us around the Scorpion and the Frog reenactment may occur.
I’m sorry. I like D&D and I’m not giving it up just because some people I never heard of can’t make money on it anymore.
D&D is not there for you to make money off of. It’s there for you to spend money on in exchange for getting a fun and enjoyable game.
Sorry if this sounds childish. I’m not an expert in business like some of you guys, but I know what I like and I really like D&D.
Do you use any third party products, like Kobold Press's books? How about Pathfinder?
I did buy the Midgard setting book from Kobold Press. It was pretty good. The rules for Pathfinder were a lot more complicated than 5e so I never got into it.
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I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
I’m sorry. I like D&D and I’m not giving it up just because some people I never heard of can’t make money on it anymore.
D&D is not there for you to make money off of. It’s there for you to spend money on in exchange for getting a fun and enjoyable game.
Sorry if this sounds childish. I’m not an expert in business like some of you guys, but I know what I like and I really like D&D.
You have in your tag that you enjoy Exandria. This new license could absolutely negatively impact Critical role. Yes, they have a shared content with CR still controlling the IP for the Wildmount supplement, but under the terms of the OGL 1.1 WotC/Hasbro could (and would) take full use of the Taldori Reborn campaign guide without paying royalties back to the CR team. So its not just companies you haven't heard of. In reality (as seen with the Wildmount supplement) CR would be in a position to warrant better terms or a better deal, but they would be absolute fools to agree to the terms of the new deal as written. But the salient point is that Exandria in its current form, would not exist had it not been for the original OGL 1.0a.
That’s a good point. I like Critical Role a lot and I did buy Tal’Dorei Reborn. Thanks.
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I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
I love D&D but the new OGL is so atrocious, that I cannot give this company another cent. Hence I cancelled my Sub to DDB. Will have to find a new game now.
Having seen Hasbro in action in the past I seriously doubt they will pay any attention to any community frustrations. The suits are all about the money and nothing else is ever considered. They are a business and no matter how may customers they lose their primary concerns are more monetization of their IP and ensure the coming VTT of theirs has no completion around.
I believe the major companies that have already cut a modified deal or in the process are going to find out when they alone are left in a year with Hasbro and no longer have the rest of us around the Scorpion and the Frog reenactment may occur.
It is in their nature.
Yes, Hasbro has shown hostility in the past towards competing products, but what is happening here is similar, but not the same. While they want to do the same thing here, they are facing double jeopardy. Legal jeopardy and customer backlash jeopardy. In this case, their customers also have options besides legal. They can literally create a competing product, but not only that. There are literally hundreds and even thousands of content creators out there that they as a company could never compete with. (even a billion dollar one)
If an of an Open Gaming System comes out with basically similar (even the same) ruleset of D&D (a Linux of TTRPGs), it won't only be the fans creating a backlash against WotC / Hasbro, but their shareholder will blame them for the self-destruction of the D&D IP and Goodwill.
The $750k royalty threshold means that any competitor (that'd fall under OGL 1.1) that has a 20% profit margin cannot make more than $150k profit per year. WotC holds the right to adjust that royalty threshold as they see fit, which means that they can dictate how large the competition can be. It's not meant to get some cash out of the alleged <20 big earners, it's meant to keep them from growing. Even if a company could get to a profit margin of 25%, they'd still only be able to make $187,5k yearly profit at max. Royalties being 20-25% directly negates any profit that'd be made at those profit percentages after the threshold is reached.
Edit: That is also why they want you to report your revenue over $50k, so they can keep you at the size they want (as they can change the threshold).
Made up numbers are made up. None of these make any sense at all - you seem to be confusing "revenue", "gross profit", and "net profit" and mixing them into some sort of financial slurry.
25% of REVENUE over $750,000 would brutalise the net and gross profit margins on a publishing project. Print based media typically operates on 10-30% gross profit, digital press is a bit better at 15-35% gross profit. A 25% royalty will strip gross profit completely away for most 3rd party content producers, and eat away the gross profits from below the $750,000 trigger point. And that is the point, because below $750,000 your 3rd party publishing is likely break even - net profits of close to zero. This also deeply impacts long tail earnings that make 3rd party creators much of their money - their IP over time pushes them over $750,000 and then a ton of royalty fees kick in, driving them below profitability.
The point here is that this change is designed to kill 3rd party producers and gatekeep the content ecosystem. It is a vertical integration strategy backed by Hasbro's large legal team and history of lawsuits.
Where the biggest risk for Hasbro exists is forcing a change to OGL1.0 - that is illegal in many IP jurisdictions, most notable the EU. Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Activision, EA Games, IMB. They have all tried similar moves and been slammed with millions to billions in fines in the EU. In N.America, where laws are friendlier to corporations doing legal shenanigans around licensing, Hasbro has been VERY successful at litigation and IP protection.
So the question is does Kobold Press and the like have the funds, or willpower, to out legal Hasbro. My bet is no. They will just stop making content for WotC IP and either switch or quit. Pathfinder, on the other hand, may fight. They have the will, but I doubt they have the funds.
The $750k royalty threshold means that any competitor (that'd fall under OGL 1.1) that has a 20% profit margin cannot make more than $150k profit per year. WotC holds the right to adjust that royalty threshold as they see fit, which means that they can dictate how large the competition can be. It's not meant to get some cash out of the alleged <20 big earners, it's meant to keep them from growing. Even if a company could get to a profit margin of 25%, they'd still only be able to make $187,5k yearly profit at max. Royalties being 20-25% directly negates any profit that'd be made at those profit percentages after the threshold is reached.
Edit: That is also why they want you to report your revenue over $50k, so they can keep you at the size they want (as they can change the threshold).
Made up numbers are made up. None of these make any sense at all - you seem to be confusing "revenue", "gross profit", and "net profit" and mixing them into some sort of financial slurry.
25% of REVENUE over $750,000 would brutalise the net and gross profit margins on a publishing project. Print based media typically operates on 10-30% gross profit, digital press is a bit better at 15-35% gross profit. A 25% royalty will strip gross profit completely away for most 3rd party content producers, and eat away the gross profits from below the $750,000 trigger point. And that is the point, because below $750,000 your 3rd party publishing is likely break even - net profits of close to zero. This also deeply impacts long tail earnings that make 3rd party creators much of their money - their IP over time pushes them over $750,000 and then a ton of royalty fees kick in, driving them below profitability.
The point here is that this change is designed to kill 3rd party producers and gatekeep the content ecosystem. It is a vertical integration strategy backed by Hasbro's large legal team and history of lawsuits.
Where the biggest risk for Hasbro exists is forcing a change to OGL1.0 - that is illegal in many IP jurisdictions, most notable the EU. Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Activision, EA Games, IMB. They have all tried similar moves and been slammed with millions to billions in fines in the EU. In N.America, where laws are friendlier to corporations doing legal shenanigans around licensing, Hasbro has been VERY successful at litigation and IP protection.
So the question is does Kobold Press and the like have the funds, or willpower, to out legal Hasbro. My bet is no. They will just stop making content for WotC IP and either switch or quit. Pathfinder, on the other hand, may fight. They have the will, but I doubt they have the funds.
Yes, I don't own a business or talk financials in my own language or English for that matter - so my terms are likely all over the place. I also tend to ramble when I get heated, I apologize for that. What I'm referencing was brought up on Indestructoboys youtube stream reading the OGL (which was sent to him last night, 1:29:24 timestamp).
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You are completely forgetting, that's REVENUE, not profit. At best there is 25% margin in the RPG industry. Basically, they are saying any company can make up to $150K PROFIT each year and EVERY CENT ABOVE THAT IS WOTC'S!
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
I’m sorry. I like D&D and I’m not giving it up just because some people I never heard of can’t make money on it anymore.
D&D is not there for you to make money off of. It’s there for you to spend money on in exchange for getting a fun and enjoyable game.
Sorry if this sounds childish. I’m not an expert in business like some of you guys, but I know what I like and I really like D&D.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Yeah it wouldn't effect many independent 3rd party creators, the other stuff like getting to use your work etc is worse for them. Paywalling stuff on Patreon is also getting shafted (free stuff public, premium version behind Patreon support). What my point affects is companies like Paizo, smaller companies like Mage Hand Press or big successful Kickstarters.
If your revenue is greater than $750k, then Hasbro doesn't want you operating under the OGL is what this really says.
No company of scale would ever agree to giving away 25% of revenue to a third party, even if it is only on revenue over $750k. You'll negotiate a new deal first.
This isn't childish at all. It's a 100% valid point of view.
If there is one thing about life, it's that everything is relative. WotC / Hasbro view is relative to what they want to accomplish just as 3rd party content providers view is also relative. In the political world, the right and left are just relative points of view.
In the end, each of us to should follow what makes us happy in our own relative point of view.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Do you use any third party products, like Kobold Press's books? How about Pathfinder?
Just read the Open Game License 1.1 15-page agreement that they want people to sign.
It is springing up all over the Internet since 3 AM this morning and has been verified by several sources.
It is the scariest document I have ever seen in my life and much worse than people have been thinking in terms of liability to anyone that signs it.
It is NOT a simple case of as long as you do not do major content you are OK. In my opinion some defending this needs to read it first.
Seriously, go find it and read it yourself. I am not providing a link to it for obvious reasons. It is easy to find by limiting a search to things for the last 24 hours relating to the Open Game License 1.1
"OGL" 1.1 - If Kickstarter, Youtube and other big platforms have signed on, has the community already lost the fight?
You have in your tag that you enjoy Exandria. This new license could absolutely negatively impact Critical role. Yes, they have a shared content with CR still controlling the IP for the Wildmount supplement, but under the terms of the OGL 1.1 WotC/Hasbro could (and would) take full use of the Taldori Reborn campaign guide without paying royalties back to the CR team. So its not just companies you haven't heard of. In reality (as seen with the Wildmount supplement) CR would be in a position to warrant better terms or a better deal, but they would be absolute fools to agree to the terms of the new deal as written. But the salient point is that Exandria in its current form, would not exist had it not been for the original OGL 1.0a.
Depends on what they agreed to and whether you're trying to use that platform. It does mean they aren't going to provide legal assistance, but they probably weren't going to anyway.
If people care, looks like creators have been sharing the full leaked draft now. It's long and I understand most won't spend the time to read the 9000 word document in full, but it's available now for those who have been asking for it.
Here's another creator - Roll for Combat (who broke the original story) - actively livestreaming the leaked content here, but they're about to wrap up now.
Having seen Hasbro in action in the past I seriously doubt they will pay any attention to any community frustrations. The suits are all about the money and nothing else is ever considered. They are a business and no matter how may customers they lose their primary concerns are more monetization of their IP and ensure the coming VTT of theirs has no completion around.
I believe the major companies that have already cut a modified deal or in the process are going to find out when they alone are left in a year with Hasbro and no longer have the rest of us around the Scorpion and the Frog reenactment may occur.
It is in their nature.
I did buy the Midgard setting book from Kobold Press. It was pretty good. The rules for Pathfinder were a lot more complicated than 5e so I never got into it.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
That’s a good point. I like Critical Role a lot and I did buy Tal’Dorei Reborn. Thanks.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
I love D&D but the new OGL is so atrocious, that I cannot give this company another cent. Hence I cancelled my Sub to DDB. Will have to find a new game now.
Never underestimate the Importance of Session 0!
Hope you have a good time exploring all the other good games out there. D&D will be here for you when you get back.
Yes, Hasbro has shown hostility in the past towards competing products, but what is happening here is similar, but not the same. While they want to do the same thing here, they are facing double jeopardy. Legal jeopardy and customer backlash jeopardy. In this case, their customers also have options besides legal. They can literally create a competing product, but not only that. There are literally hundreds and even thousands of content creators out there that they as a company could never compete with. (even a billion dollar one)
If an of an Open Gaming System comes out with basically similar (even the same) ruleset of D&D (a Linux of TTRPGs), it won't only be the fans creating a backlash against WotC / Hasbro, but their shareholder will blame them for the self-destruction of the D&D IP and Goodwill.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Or they will play F&F instead. Fans & Fantasy that has the exact same ruleset, but with non-WotC content.
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Made up numbers are made up. None of these make any sense at all - you seem to be confusing "revenue", "gross profit", and "net profit" and mixing them into some sort of financial slurry.
25% of REVENUE over $750,000 would brutalise the net and gross profit margins on a publishing project. Print based media typically operates on 10-30% gross profit, digital press is a bit better at 15-35% gross profit. A 25% royalty will strip gross profit completely away for most 3rd party content producers, and eat away the gross profits from below the $750,000 trigger point. And that is the point, because below $750,000 your 3rd party publishing is likely break even - net profits of close to zero. This also deeply impacts long tail earnings that make 3rd party creators much of their money - their IP over time pushes them over $750,000 and then a ton of royalty fees kick in, driving them below profitability.
The point here is that this change is designed to kill 3rd party producers and gatekeep the content ecosystem. It is a vertical integration strategy backed by Hasbro's large legal team and history of lawsuits.
Where the biggest risk for Hasbro exists is forcing a change to OGL1.0 - that is illegal in many IP jurisdictions, most notable the EU. Apple, Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Activision, EA Games, IMB. They have all tried similar moves and been slammed with millions to billions in fines in the EU. In N.America, where laws are friendlier to corporations doing legal shenanigans around licensing, Hasbro has been VERY successful at litigation and IP protection.
So the question is does Kobold Press and the like have the funds, or willpower, to out legal Hasbro. My bet is no. They will just stop making content for WotC IP and either switch or quit. Pathfinder, on the other hand, may fight. They have the will, but I doubt they have the funds.
Yes, I don't own a business or talk financials in my own language or English for that matter - so my terms are likely all over the place. I also tend to ramble when I get heated, I apologize for that. What I'm referencing was brought up on Indestructoboys youtube stream reading the OGL (which was sent to him last night, 1:29:24 timestamp).