I hope these guys have a lot of talented creators to pick up the slack when no one is making content for them any more.
The Elderscrolls skyrim is still going strong twelve years later. Why? Modders, that's why. Content creators who love their game and want to do their part.
I used to play this game a lot, but rules changes and a focus shift has left me wanting. When I did play I bought a lot of books, 3e particularly, but I soon got tired of buying books no one else had or wanted to use. I Dm you see and I liked to have a lot of variety in my campaigns.
Will the virtual table top come with a single player mode or the 1st edition rules set? I'm sure they won't just sell me the software and that's the end of it. I really can't see paying a monthly to play D&D. This might be a very bad thing. And it will be us, who use their rules and want quality gaming material who will suffer the most.
Give Savage Worlds a look, especially Savage Worlds for Pathfinder. It reignited my love of fantasy rpgs and is now my #1 system. I’ve been a DM for 40 years, and I love it.
I stopped playing 3.5 for many reasons. I hate the numbers bloat and the power creep and the never ending amount of actions they kept piling on. Pathfinder is the same in all the wrong places. My brother and I are dusting off our old 1e books and I have some new rules I want to try out. I designed them with the old rules in mind so they should bolt on reasonably well. Like I said, I was an upstanding member of the book of the month club for a year or more. I got all kinds of 3rd party books gathering dust.
TBH I would like to see the community come together in a MAJOR way like never before... NOT to fight the new CGL 1.1, or WotC/Hasbro, but to create a BRAND NEW Fantasy TTRPG that plays like D&D, but uses NOTHING of their IP and requires NO acceptance of any OGL or SRD.
It is doable. Given all the major players out there - the big TTRPG developers, the major TTRPG web sites (like EN World), the sheer size and creativeness of the community, imagine if this giant community created a new truly open-source system that plays like D&D but isn't beholden to WotC, and we can ALL then play in that creative playground royalty-free in real perpetuity, with a truly irrevocable open gaming license.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Cool, this is the exact information I wanted before forming any real strong opinions on the whole OGL thing. To bad they didn't add irrevocable to the original OGL 1.0a, but I guess they didn't want to set the entire thing in stone.
TBH I would like to see the community come together in a MAJOR way like never before... NOT to fight the new CGL 1.1, or WotC/Hasbro, but to create a BRAND NEW Fantasy TTRPG that plays like D&D, but uses NOTHING of their IP and requires NO acceptance of any OGL or SRD.
It is doable. Given all the major players out there - the big TTRPG developers, the major TTRPG web sites (like EN World), the sheer size and creativeness of the community, imagine if this giant community created a new truly open-source system that plays like D&D but isn't beholden to WotC, and we can ALL then play in that creative playground royalty-free in real perpetuity, with a truly irrevocable open gaming license.
I believe something like this is already in the works, but I don't have any links or sources. Something I read in the last few days re: the new OGL mentioned that some creators were basically doing this very thing: coming up with an open source TTRPG that won't be beholden to WOTC or any corporation.
I personally will be sticking with D&D, at least 5e, as it has brought many pleasant experiences and I liked every single product I bought from WotC. That said, while I was supporting WotC wholeheartedly just days before, I am still stunned by the horribleness of this OGL 1.1. I don't think Wizards had much influence on this move, but the silence is rather deafening. Still, these are legal documents and anything you say can be used against you in a court of law, so no-one will be saying anything unless a final decision has been made. The reasons for the leak could have been many, and honestly the version that WotC released this for the purpose of market research is the least likely as the whole thing is a complete disaster that will cause real damage to Wizards even if they walk everything back. Even if they make the updates to OGL 1.0 minor, the damage has been done, thousands of gamers won't be buying any WotC products for months, maybe longer. I really hope that this was leaked by Wizards to show Hasbro that things that work in the software industry really don't work in TTRPGs, and that that is also the reason they are keeping silent. After all, Paizo, the number one victim of the new OGL (so far) has made a statement that they're not making a statement yet. As someone in this thread said, I am yet to see an actual image or even screenshot of the leak, and while the Kickstarter statement lends credibility to the leak, in legal documents every single word is absolutely crucial to the meaning of the document (perpetual vs irrevocable, for example). I must also say that my sleep, though thankfully not my health, has been impacted by this leak. I just hope Dungeons and Dragons the game, in all of its parts, will survive and once again thrive after this settles down. If Wizards sinks like the Titanic, I will be one of the band members still playing as the water surges all around, but I really, really hope it won't come to that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
TBH I would like to see the community come together in a MAJOR way like never before... NOT to fight the new CGL 1.1, or WotC/Hasbro, but to create a BRAND NEW Fantasy TTRPG that plays like D&D, but uses NOTHING of their IP and requires NO acceptance of any OGL or SRD.
It is doable. Given all the major players out there - the big TTRPG developers, the major TTRPG web sites (like EN World), the sheer size and creativeness of the community, imagine if this giant community created a new truly open-source system that plays like D&D but isn't beholden to WotC, and we can ALL then play in that creative playground royalty-free in real perpetuity, with a truly irrevocable open gaming license.
I'll be right there if/when we do. As a D&D and an MTG player, I am very sick of Hasbro's crap. I've been considering switching systems/making my own for a while, but this is the final nail in the coffin.
If anyone from WotC is reading this, keep this in mind:
The succes of 5e is mainly driven by hardcore fans, new players are coming along because the old guard is bringing them in and it'is willing to master games for them. If you stay on this road, you're going to suffocate what gave 5e its success. Dnd is not the only TTRPG out there, if needed we'll migrate to greener pastures, and bring all the newbies with us.
People can smell coroporate greed from a mile away, and it removes all magic that draws people in in the first place.
What they did do was confirm it was a "DRAFT" by confirming its content
The Problem with the "Draft" is the intent and the Audacity of WotC to assume that people will just accept that. This is why I Paid for physical Books and have printed out of all my Characters on DND Beyond. I only keep a minimal subscription so I play on Discord. If they change things I'll use other methods to build characters. I understand that they are in business to make money but not on the backs of community creators who work hard on their content. You want their stuff Hire them, make a offer to buy their IP. but this is insulting. even if they change it the damage is done and Trust is broken in my opinion.
If you think OGL 1.1 is bad, when you use DNDBeyond, you agree to WOTC ToS. They can steal all of your homebrew, DM notes. Everything you post on this platform.
5.2.License to Wizards. By posting or submitting any User Content to or through the Websites, Games, or Services, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sublicensable license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to: (i) exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to, rights under copyright, trademark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction; (ii) your name, likeness, and any other information included in your User Content, without any obligation to you. You waive any and all claims that any use by us or our licensees of your User Content violates any of your rights, including moral rights, privacy rights, rights to publicity, proprietary, attribution, or other rights, and rights to any material or ideas contained in your User Content.
Saw copy of OGL 1.1 linked to by Tenkar's Tavern YT channel. It is so, so horrible. So predatory. We can sue you, you can't sue us, that kind of stuff. To the extreme.
And of course all the other awful crap the community has been discussing.
Anyone who makes content for D&D going forward is simply begging to be exploited.
Saw copy of OGL 1.1 linked to by Tenkar's Tavern YT channel. It is so, so horrible. So predatory. We can sue you, you can't sue us, that kind of stuff. To the extreme.
And of course all the other awful crap the community has been discussing.
Anyone who makes content for D&D going forward is simply begging to be exploited.
Join the revolution on DND Beyond ;) #avatarOpenDnD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The D&D game has neither losers nor winners, it has only gamers who relish exercising their imagination."- T. Moldvay
If you think OGL 1.1 is bad, when you use DNDBeyond, you agree to WOTC ToS.
I mean, sure, that's pretty harsh, but there's a difference. Posting content on this site you're literally giving them content, it's kind of the usual expectation. No one gave you any expectation to the contrary, at least.
By contrast, OGL 1.0 setup 20 years of precedent and expectations, and now they're trying to retroactively steal it all back by pretending "Oh, that's not what we really meant in the first place."
I stopped playing 3.5 for many reasons. I hate the numbers bloat and the power creep and the never ending amount of actions they kept piling on. Pathfinder is the same in all the wrong places. My brother and I are dusting off our old 1e books and I have some new rules I want to try out. I designed them with the old rules in mind so they should bolt on reasonably well. Like I said, I was an upstanding member of the book of the month club for a year or more. I got all kinds of 3rd party books gathering dust.
I've been playing all the editions without break since 1983, and the recent versions have left me wanting (similar to your experience). Between the increases in character power, HP creep, action paralysis and story breaking 2 hour combats, I'm tiring on the current version.
Check out OSE Advanced - the author used the OGL to create an extremely streamlined and cleaned up version of the B/X rules and then skinned the 1E classes and races on to it. It seems very interesting, although we may house-rule a version of the 5E ability skill system on to it.
I'm play testing it with college friends in the next few weeks.
Check out OSE Advanced - the author used the OGL to create an extremely streamlined and cleaned up version of the B/X rules and then skinned the 1E classes and races on to it. It seems very interesting, although we may house-rule a version of the 5E ability skill system on to it.
I'm play testing it with college friends in the next few weeks.
If it's (OSE) being made with the OGL then it's also DOA if 1.1 is approved.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I wonder if you license your content to a third party prior to publication then allow the third party to publish if that preempts their claim. Since legally you can't give what isn't yours.
I wonder if you license your content to a third party prior to publication then allow the third party to publish if that preempts their claim. Since legally you can't give what isn't yours.
Someone at some point needs to agree to the OGL terms, if anything covered by the OGL is used in the book. If you license or sell your works to a 3rd party, that just means they need to sign the OGL instead of you. If you didn't transfer the right to agree with the terms of the OGL (not necessarily using those exact words), and the 3rd party signed the OGL anyway, that would likely be a breach of the contract / OGL, and therefore neither you nor the 3rd party has the right to use WotC materials in the published book, and WotC sues everyone into oblivion, kills your dog, slashes the tires on your truck, & pays Taylor Swift to write a soon-to-be-#1 song about how you are a terrible person, more or less. Not a lawyer, but it feels truthy.
Otherwise, everyone would pull those shenanigans all the time for everything.
I've now listened to three different lawyers go over the documents out presently... yes I have no life... Every, single, one, of whom said functionally the same thing, to summarize: "Not only is this deal awful, probalby illegal in some territories, but if you think it's bad, it's worse, and if you think it's fine you haven't read it. No lawyer would advise any business or individual to sign this." SO... Now we have an "informed and professional" position, oh people opining "Mm actually you don't know what you are talking about!"...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I hope these guys have a lot of talented creators to pick up the slack when no one is making content for them any more.
The Elderscrolls skyrim is still going strong twelve years later. Why? Modders, that's why. Content creators who love their game and want to do their part.
I used to play this game a lot, but rules changes and a focus shift has left me wanting. When I did play I bought a lot of books, 3e particularly, but I soon got tired of buying books no one else had or wanted to use. I Dm you see and I liked to have a lot of variety in my campaigns.
Will the virtual table top come with a single player mode or the 1st edition rules set? I'm sure they won't just sell me the software and that's the end of it. I really can't see paying a monthly to play D&D. This might be a very bad thing. And it will be us, who use their rules and want quality gaming material who will suffer the most.
Give Savage Worlds a look, especially Savage Worlds for Pathfinder. It reignited my love of fantasy rpgs and is now my #1 system. I’ve been a DM for 40 years, and I love it.
I stopped playing 3.5 for many reasons. I hate the numbers bloat and the power creep and the never ending amount of actions they kept piling on. Pathfinder is the same in all the wrong places. My brother and I are dusting off our old 1e books and I have some new rules I want to try out. I designed them with the old rules in mind so they should bolt on reasonably well. Like I said, I was an upstanding member of the book of the month club for a year or more. I got all kinds of 3rd party books gathering dust.
TBH I would like to see the community come together in a MAJOR way like never before... NOT to fight the new CGL 1.1, or WotC/Hasbro, but to create a BRAND NEW Fantasy TTRPG that plays like D&D, but uses NOTHING of their IP and requires NO acceptance of any OGL or SRD.
It is doable. Given all the major players out there - the big TTRPG developers, the major TTRPG web sites (like EN World), the sheer size and creativeness of the community, imagine if this giant community created a new truly open-source system that plays like D&D but isn't beholden to WotC, and we can ALL then play in that creative playground royalty-free in real perpetuity, with a truly irrevocable open gaming license.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Cool, this is the exact information I wanted before forming any real strong opinions on the whole OGL thing. To bad they didn't add irrevocable to the original OGL 1.0a, but I guess they didn't want to set the entire thing in stone.
I hate Dungeons & Dragons. :D
I believe something like this is already in the works, but I don't have any links or sources. Something I read in the last few days re: the new OGL mentioned that some creators were basically doing this very thing: coming up with an open source TTRPG that won't be beholden to WOTC or any corporation.
I personally will be sticking with D&D, at least 5e, as it has brought many pleasant experiences and I liked every single product I bought from WotC. That said, while I was supporting WotC wholeheartedly just days before, I am still stunned by the horribleness of this OGL 1.1. I don't think Wizards had much influence on this move, but the silence is rather deafening. Still, these are legal documents and anything you say can be used against you in a court of law, so no-one will be saying anything unless a final decision has been made. The reasons for the leak could have been many, and honestly the version that WotC released this for the purpose of market research is the least likely as the whole thing is a complete disaster that will cause real damage to Wizards even if they walk everything back. Even if they make the updates to OGL 1.0 minor, the damage has been done, thousands of gamers won't be buying any WotC products for months, maybe longer. I really hope that this was leaked by Wizards to show Hasbro that things that work in the software industry really don't work in TTRPGs, and that that is also the reason they are keeping silent. After all, Paizo, the number one victim of the new OGL (so far) has made a statement that they're not making a statement yet. As someone in this thread said, I am yet to see an actual image or even screenshot of the leak, and while the Kickstarter statement lends credibility to the leak, in legal documents every single word is absolutely crucial to the meaning of the document (perpetual vs irrevocable, for example). I must also say that my sleep, though thankfully not my health, has been impacted by this leak. I just hope Dungeons and Dragons the game, in all of its parts, will survive and once again thrive after this settles down. If Wizards sinks like the Titanic, I will be one of the band members still playing as the water surges all around, but I really, really hope it won't come to that.
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
I'll be right there if/when we do. As a D&D and an MTG player, I am very sick of Hasbro's crap. I've been considering switching systems/making my own for a while, but this is the final nail in the coffin.
If anyone from WotC is reading this, keep this in mind:
The succes of 5e is mainly driven by hardcore fans, new players are coming along because the old guard is bringing them in and it'is willing to master games for them.
If you stay on this road, you're going to suffocate what gave 5e its success. Dnd is not the only TTRPG out there, if needed we'll migrate to greener pastures, and bring all the newbies with us.
People can smell coroporate greed from a mile away, and it removes all magic that draws people in in the first place.
Let's look at this closely:
The Problem with the "Draft" is the intent and the Audacity of WotC to assume that people will just accept that. This is why I Paid for physical Books and have printed out of all my Characters on DND Beyond. I only keep a minimal subscription so I play on Discord. If they change things I'll use other methods to build characters. I understand that they are in business to make money but not on the backs of community creators who work hard on their content. You want their stuff Hire them, make a offer to buy their IP. but this is insulting. even if they change it the damage is done and Trust is broken in my opinion.
[REDACTED]
If you think OGL 1.1 is bad, when you use DNDBeyond, you agree to WOTC ToS. They can steal all of your homebrew, DM notes. Everything you post on this platform.
5.2. License to Wizards. By posting or submitting any User Content to or through the Websites, Games, or Services, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sublicensable license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to: (i) exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to, rights under copyright, trademark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction; (ii) your name, likeness, and any other information included in your User Content, without any obligation to you. You waive any and all claims that any use by us or our licensees of your User Content violates any of your rights, including moral rights, privacy rights, rights to publicity, proprietary, attribution, or other rights, and rights to any material or ideas contained in your User Content.
Saw copy of OGL 1.1 linked to by Tenkar's Tavern YT channel. It is so, so horrible. So predatory. We can sue you, you can't sue us, that kind of stuff. To the extreme.
And of course all the other awful crap the community has been discussing.
Anyone who makes content for D&D going forward is simply begging to be exploited.
Join the revolution on DND Beyond ;) #avatarOpenDnD
"The D&D game has neither losers nor winners, it has only gamers who relish exercising their imagination."- T. Moldvay
I mean, sure, that's pretty harsh, but there's a difference. Posting content on this site you're literally giving them content, it's kind of the usual expectation. No one gave you any expectation to the contrary, at least.
By contrast, OGL 1.0 setup 20 years of precedent and expectations, and now they're trying to retroactively steal it all back by pretending "Oh, that's not what we really meant in the first place."
I've been playing all the editions without break since 1983, and the recent versions have left me wanting (similar to your experience). Between the increases in character power, HP creep, action paralysis and story breaking 2 hour combats, I'm tiring on the current version.
Check out OSE Advanced - the author used the OGL to create an extremely streamlined and cleaned up version of the B/X rules and then skinned the 1E classes and races on to it. It seems very interesting, although we may house-rule a version of the 5E ability skill system on to it.
I'm play testing it with college friends in the next few weeks.
If the previous OGL is revoked, I will no longer be financially supporting Wizards of the Coast products. #opendnd
If it's (OSE) being made with the OGL then it's also DOA if 1.1 is approved.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I wonder if you license your content to a third party prior to publication then allow the third party to publish if that preempts their claim. Since legally you can't give what isn't yours.
Someone at some point needs to agree to the OGL terms, if anything covered by the OGL is used in the book. If you license or sell your works to a 3rd party, that just means they need to sign the OGL instead of you. If you didn't transfer the right to agree with the terms of the OGL (not necessarily using those exact words), and the 3rd party signed the OGL anyway, that would likely be a breach of the contract / OGL, and therefore neither you nor the 3rd party has the right to use WotC materials in the published book, and WotC sues everyone into oblivion, kills your dog, slashes the tires on your truck, & pays Taylor Swift to write a soon-to-be-#1 song about how you are a terrible person, more or less. Not a lawyer, but it feels truthy.
Otherwise, everyone would pull those shenanigans all the time for everything.
I've now listened to three different lawyers go over the documents out presently... yes I have no life... Every, single, one, of whom said functionally the same thing, to summarize: "Not only is this deal awful, probalby illegal in some territories, but if you think it's bad, it's worse, and if you think it's fine you haven't read it. No lawyer would advise any business or individual to sign this." SO... Now we have an "informed and professional" position, oh people opining "Mm actually you don't know what you are talking about!"...