Why are hit dice based on the class you choose as opposed to the race you pick? I would think the race you choose would be the perfect place for deriving hit point, hit dice, and general constitution as they sound more like racial features.
I would not. For all I know that Librarian could be a world class fighter. Your job doesn't necessarily define your lifestyle and your natural capabilities.
Implicit in my question was the fact that the librarian is not a boxer or world-class fighter. In D&D your class does define your lifestyle and natural capabilities.
I assume you mean implied, but being a Goliath boxer vs being a goblin boxer are very different things. Even if you are the best you can be there are obvious advantages that each one has that the other doesn't, and it simply comes down to race.
Game balance. Available HP is an important factor in balancing character power. In D&D most of a player character's power is derived from the class they choose, rather than the race they pick.
It used to be, back in the early days, that there were cases where your class would essentially be a racial choice. For instance, Elf used to be a character "class". But as the game has moved on, they've adopted more of a style where they don't want certain play styles to be gatekeepered by the race you choose.
Thus, racial options have an impact, but the bulk of player character power comes from class choice. It's an abstraction from reality in some respects, but from a game design perspective and narrative perspective, it makes more sense.
I assume you mean implied, but being a Goliath boxer vs being a goblin boxer are very different things. Even if you are the best you can be there are obvious advantages that each one has that the other doesn't, and it simply comes down to race.
Reflected by the goliath's Strength and Constitution bonus and Stone's Endurance trait.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Why are hit dice based on the class you choose as opposed to the race you pick? I would think the race you choose would be the perfect place for deriving hit point, hit dice, and general constitution as they sound more like racial features.
Because hit points aren't necessarily how many times you can get stabbed, its how many times you an avoid getting stabbed before dying. So wizards having less hp than a fighter means that a fighter is better at parrying or dodging blades or having better combat experience at reading opponents. Thats not to say a wizard can't be as good as a fighter, but they are less likely to be.
Because hit points aren't necessarily how many times you can get stabbed, its how many times you an avoid getting stabbed before dying. So wizards having less hp than a fighter means that a fighter is better at parrying or dodging blades or having better combat experience at reading opponents. Thats not to say a wizard can't be as good as a fighter, but they are less likely to be.
Because hit points aren't necessarily how many times you can get stabbed, its how many times you an avoid getting stabbed before dying. So wizards having less hp than a fighter means that a fighter is better at parrying or dodging blades or having better combat experience at reading opponents. Thats not to say a wizard can't be as good as a fighter, but they are less likely to be.
...what? This makes no sense at all.
And you think being able to be hit by 20 arrows without dying makes sense? A very common interpretation of hit points is that they are more abstract than how much physical damage you can take. That it accounts for fatigue, stress, will, as well as how much physical punishment you can take. Thats why a high level barbarian can survive a 500 foot fall, they find ways to slow themselves down, and reduce the hit. That they know how to tuck and roll in order to reduce damage. Hp is in part fighting and survival experience.
Edit: From PHB: “Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck.”
Not to mention the implications of racial superiority. Probably something to shy away from.
I don’t think this plays a factor. They have been more inclusive over the last few years, which is awesome and something I really appreciate. However, I don’t think this is a consideration for HP.
The answer, as others have suggested is game balance. This is one of those areas where the fact that it’s a game trumps any argument for realism.
If hit dice were tied to race, then you would have to restrict classes to specific races. A fighter with d6 hit die can’t really do their job and a caster with a d12 hit die would be a beast.
Yes, some races offer bonuses to CON, but that effect isn’t as pronounced as a change in hit dice combined with a CON boosted race.
In 5e certain races may have a bonus that is more optimized for a specific class, but by and large any race can play any class. I believe this was part of their design philosophy, which is likely why they got rid of ability score penalties for races.
The current system creates more freedom to make a unique character that isn’t a drain on the party. In previous editions (3.5 at least), this wasn’t really the case. You could make a bad character. That’s pretty hard to do in 5e. You can min/max, but the difference between an optimized character and one that isn’t in 5e is relatively small overall, despite what some might lead you to believe.
Ahh yeah - I think they're conscious effort to be inclusive is awesome. I just didn't think this specific issue was tied to that, but I could be wrong. Either way, agreed that it's a positive thing.
I would not. For all I know that Librarian could be a world class fighter. Your job doesn't necessarily define your lifestyle and your natural capabilities.
That would be a multi-class person =)
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
A Wizard does not usually do much physical workout, they do not have to carry around pounds and pounds of weaponry and armor, they do not train with said armor and weapons. The most they do is study their spells from their spellbook, and did so for the better part of their lives (most probably in terrible lighting conditions until they learn the Light cantrip).
So, to answer your question, a Fighter has a higher Hit Dice in order to signify the fact that on average they have a more active lifestyle and a better physical form, allowing them to withstand more "punishment". Also, as already pointed out, CON bonus coming from race already addresses the point of race having a relation to HP.
Why are hit dice based on the class you choose as opposed to the race you pick? I would think the race you choose would be the perfect place for deriving hit point, hit dice, and general constitution as they sound more like racial features.
Wouldn't you expect a boxer to be harder to knock out than a librarian? Races already give bonuses to HP and CON where appropriate.
I would not. For all I know that Librarian could be a world class fighter. Your job doesn't necessarily define your lifestyle and your natural capabilities.
Implicit in my question was the fact that the librarian is not a boxer or world-class fighter. In D&D your class does define your lifestyle and natural capabilities.
I assume you mean implied, but being a Goliath boxer vs being a goblin boxer are very different things. Even if you are the best you can be there are obvious advantages that each one has that the other doesn't, and it simply comes down to race.
Game balance. Available HP is an important factor in balancing character power. In D&D most of a player character's power is derived from the class they choose, rather than the race they pick.
It used to be, back in the early days, that there were cases where your class would essentially be a racial choice. For instance, Elf used to be a character "class". But as the game has moved on, they've adopted more of a style where they don't want certain play styles to be gatekeepered by the race you choose.
Thus, racial options have an impact, but the bulk of player character power comes from class choice. It's an abstraction from reality in some respects, but from a game design perspective and narrative perspective, it makes more sense.
Not to mention the implications of racial superiority. Probably something to shy away from.
Reflected by the goliath's Strength and Constitution bonus and Stone's Endurance trait.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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'Cause D&D?
Because hit points aren't necessarily how many times you can get stabbed, its how many times you an avoid getting stabbed before dying. So wizards having less hp than a fighter means that a fighter is better at parrying or dodging blades or having better combat experience at reading opponents. Thats not to say a wizard can't be as good as a fighter, but they are less likely to be.
...what? This makes no sense at all.
And you think being able to be hit by 20 arrows without dying makes sense? A very common interpretation of hit points is that they are more abstract than how much physical damage you can take. That it accounts for fatigue, stress, will, as well as how much physical punishment you can take. Thats why a high level barbarian can survive a 500 foot fall, they find ways to slow themselves down, and reduce the hit. That they know how to tuck and roll in order to reduce damage. Hp is in part fighting and survival experience.
Edit: From PHB: “Hit points represent a combination of physical and mental durability, the will to live, and luck.”
I don’t think this plays a factor. They have been more inclusive over the last few years, which is awesome and something I really appreciate. However, I don’t think this is a consideration for HP.
The answer, as others have suggested is game balance. This is one of those areas where the fact that it’s a game trumps any argument for realism.
If hit dice were tied to race, then you would have to restrict classes to specific races. A fighter with d6 hit die can’t really do their job and a caster with a d12 hit die would be a beast.
Yes, some races offer bonuses to CON, but that effect isn’t as pronounced as a change in hit dice combined with a CON boosted race.
In 5e certain races may have a bonus that is more optimized for a specific class, but by and large any race can play any class. I believe this was part of their design philosophy, which is likely why they got rid of ability score penalties for races.
The current system creates more freedom to make a unique character that isn’t a drain on the party. In previous editions (3.5 at least), this wasn’t really the case. You could make a bad character. That’s pretty hard to do in 5e. You can min/max, but the difference between an optimized character and one that isn’t in 5e is relatively small overall, despite what some might lead you to believe.
I meant it as more of a positive side effect.
Ahh yeah - I think they're conscious effort to be inclusive is awesome. I just didn't think this specific issue was tied to that, but I could be wrong. Either way, agreed that it's a positive thing.
No, but your class does.
I think that the person asking the question already knows the answer but is looking to argue a moot point.
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That would be a multi-class person =)
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
A Wizard does not usually do much physical workout, they do not have to carry around pounds and pounds of weaponry and armor, they do not train with said armor and weapons.
The most they do is study their spells from their spellbook, and did so for the better part of their lives (most probably in terrible lighting conditions until they learn the Light cantrip).
So, to answer your question, a Fighter has a higher Hit Dice in order to signify the fact that on average they have a more active lifestyle and a better physical form, allowing them to withstand more "punishment".
Also, as already pointed out, CON bonus coming from race already addresses the point of race having a relation to HP.
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