I won't try to convince you regarding the narrative of level 3 patrons - by now they've described how it works in the fiction multiple times, so either you buy it or you don't at this point.
I've seen this concern a few times and I genuinely don't understand it. If you make a couple of encounters and your players breeze through them... just make the subsequent ones harder. Bump up the party's APL a notch, add more monsters, add tougher monsters, unfavorable terrain, use waves / reinforcements etc. The DM has many tools in their toolbelt to modulate difficulty.
What do you mean "in the fiction," please?
When they were describing the warlock of the archfey in the video, it just sounded like it's going to be able to teleport away from everything from level 1 up. And the underlying assumptions seem to be that D&D is best or only fun when the characters get deal lots of damage with no real fear of being killed. Just my impression.
My overarching concern - not limited to warlocks - is what feels like a significant jump in power for all classes and subclasses. Which makes me wonder will Tier III and Tier IV characters be even more unbalanced and godlike in the 2024 versions? It also feels like character death will become even harder/more unlikely, which means establishing tension and stakes are going to be harder for DMs.
Pretty sure they're going to update the encounter building rules, so they could simply adjust them so the extra power is actually needed.
I want to think the new Monster Manual (and encounter rules) will have been written with the increase in power in mind, but I'm not overly hopeful. 5E is fairly broken after 10th-12th level; I would like to have reason to hope the 2024 versions won't be.
When they were describing the warlock of the archfey in the video, it just sounded like it's going to be able to teleport away from everything from level 1 up. And the underlying assumptions seem to be that D&D is best or only fun when the characters get deal lots of damage with no real fear of being killed. Just my impression.
It's literally just extra Misty Step. Has Misty Step never been used at your tables?
I thought "in the fiction" meant novels, not the fluff/introductory text for the class. My misunderstanding. Was this in the UA? I don't remember but would go check if it was.
Of course Misty Step has been used in my game. Again, just going by the video, Crawford made it sound like the warlock's just going to popping around the battlefield nonstop.
havent watched the video yet tho im guessing by the lack of people there arent any crazy changes like paladin?
There are very big changes.
There are big changes from 2014, but from UA7 it's pretty much identical barring a handful of spell swaps/expansions.
No word on the casting stat so it's probably just Cha again. Sigh. Maybe we'll get Intlocks in Dalamar's Tower of Everything or something.
Pure curiosity here, but why do you prefer Intelligence for spellcasting ability?
It’s one of those cases where the mechanics don’t reconcile nicely with the roleplay some people want. Some people like the idea of framing their Warlock as an “up by their own bootstraps” caster who personally did a bunch of legwork to get their power, rather than going through the typical transactional process, and there’s a few blurbs in the description that support that narrative option. Personally, I’d say if you actually self-taught yourself magic then you’re still a Wizard, whereas “discovering the secrets of the ancients” sounds more like cribbing someone else’s notes rather than actually learning the underlying mechanics of magic. It’s ultimately mostly arguing over the semantics of the class description, with a bit of bean counting over the distribution of casting stats.
I thought "in the fiction" meant novels, not the fluff/introductory text for the class. My misunderstanding. Was this in the UA? I don't remember but would go check if it was.
It's in the devblog videos where they provided their rationale for the change. I'll dig up a specific example later.
Of course Misty Step has been used in my game. Again, just going by the video, Crawford made it sound like the warlock's just going to popping around the battlefield nonstop.
Even if they could Misty Step at will - which, to be 100% clear, they cannot - D&D is still a turn-based game at the end of the day. Think about it - what's going to happen on most rounds is that the Archfey is going to teleport from point A to point B, then they'll spend the rest of the round in Point B (or within movement distance of point B) where they can be attacked. Does it give them more positioning options, absolutely; does it make them invincible, of course not.
Why the heck are the subclasses now at level 3 ?!?!?
It s a complete nonsense : you are given your powers by a patron BUT for TWO ******* LEVELS you have NO patron !!
And, by the way, all the 1lvl spells granted by the subclasses will be useless because you ll get the 2lvl spells at the same time, making it harder for newbies who have difficulties with spells.
Plus, it makes this class less personal at the first levels. And multiclass in warlock costs much more lvl for the same benefits
So, please, pleeaaase, give us back the 1lvl subclasses
Why the heck are the subclasses now at level 3 ?!?!?
It s a complete nonsense : you are given your powers by a patron BUT for TWO ******* LEVELS you have NO patron !!
And, by the way, all the 1lvl spells granted by the subclasses will be useless because you ll get the 2lvl spells at the same time, making it harder for newbies who have difficulties with spells.
Plus, it makes this class less personal at the first levels. And multiclass in warlock costs much more lvl for the same benefits
So, please, pleeaaase, give us back the 1lvl subclasses
Think of it this way: you do have your patron for those first two levels, but perhaps level 3 is when they choose to fully show themselves to you, rather than being a voice in your head, a nightly dream, or whatever. I feel like a lot of the changes to the 2024 PHB lend themselves well to better roleplay opportunities.
You're also still free to use the 2014 version of the class if that notion appeals to you more.
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Why the heck are the subclasses now at level 3 ?!?!?
It s a complete nonsense : you are given your powers by a patron BUT for TWO ******* LEVELS you have NO patron !!
And, by the way, all the 1lvl spells granted by the subclasses will be useless because you ll get the 2lvl spells at the same time, making it harder for newbies who have difficulties with spells.
Plus, it makes this class less personal at the first levels. And multiclass in warlock costs much more lvl for the same benefits
So, please, pleeaaase, give us back the 1lvl subclasses
So just like a paladin's oath has been since the start of 5e where you get the power from your oath, or the same way a cleric works or the way a sorcerer is going to work. At level 1 you have made a deal with an otherworldly entity. That entity does not give you their specific powers until level 3, in some cases your character may not know the nature of the entity you have made the deal with. Or may believe they have made a deal with one type of entity only to realize it is a different one later. This was done for both balance reasons and for the new player experience so they can get the feel for a warlock before being locked in to one of the most character defining decisions at level 1. This is the case for every class.
For Sorcerer's OF COURSE you have a bloodline before level 3, but those specific powers don't manifest in the sorcerer till level 3. For Cleric OF COURSE you have a deity before level 3, but what domain that deity will make you a champion of will not be known till level 3. All of it for balance and for new players to get a feel for a class in the first 2 levels before they are locked into their major subclass decision.
And just because you have level 2 spells doesn't mean level 1 spells are useless that is just a false statement.
Soooo, the Warlock video is over! What do you think? Do you (finally) got your perfect warlock?
Also, a note for those of you who are enjoying the articles: the DDB article for the warlock will be out later this week!
I'm liking what I see, and as a DM I really hope my next campaign has a new Warlock.
Lots of good, sadly my favorite subclass they described also is filled with table taboos so will be automatically added to the Banned list... first subclass to be banned outright I think. our table has a table taboo on mind control, and the new GOO is a mindcontrol gaslight powerhouse.
Predictions:
Coffee-lock will no longer be the meme, Fey tank-locks have the right material to become the new meme class. Can't wait for the rules to read them over, see how to make a busted combo.
Also got to say Celestial will probably become the pure healer of choice. Getting a cute kitten as a summons reeks of Final Fantasy 14 Carbuncles. Can we say Pokemon levels of cute?
The rest of the given material has me thinking a mostly Warlock character might be actually very good, but also multiclass combos with Warlock will be even better now.
I understand this point of view, yet the features of the subclasses should be granted before : for the cleric, your Channel divinity feature makes you a classic cleric until you can finally choose a subclass that will grant you one that fits with your caracter, and concerning the spells : if you have the Spellcasting feature, yes you might use them a little bit at low levels, however Warlocks with their special spell slots will extremely rarely use them for level 1 spells.
I understand the will of making the classes similars for similar strenght but it makes them less personnal, what s really sad.
Weird that the warlock appears to be the only class in which there's a significant delay between the online article and the YT video.
I'd assume that the person who got the assignment got sick or had some other personal issue going on (or just flaked), they need more time to make it happen, and they didn't want to reorder the infodumps for whatever reason.
I waiting to see a Subclass that focus on melee builds as pact of the blade.
Fiend and Archfey both seem well-suited to gishing - Archfey due to unparalleled mobility and short-range control effects, Fiend due to significant durability and punishing attackers.
My hope is that they took weapon masteries out of Blade Pact so that that can be the new Hexblade's thing.
What do you mean "in the fiction," please?
When they were describing the warlock of the archfey in the video, it just sounded like it's going to be able to teleport away from everything from level 1 up. And the underlying assumptions seem to be that D&D is best or only fun when the characters get deal lots of damage with no real fear of being killed. Just my impression.
Pretty sure they're going to update the encounter building rules, so they could simply adjust them so the extra power is actually needed.
I want to think the new Monster Manual (and encounter rules) will have been written with the increase in power in mind, but I'm not overly hopeful. 5E is fairly broken after 10th-12th level; I would like to have reason to hope the 2024 versions won't be.
I mean they explained how a Warlock can have powers for two levels before picking a primary Patron at 3rd.
It's literally just extra Misty Step. Has Misty Step never been used at your tables?
I thought "in the fiction" meant novels, not the fluff/introductory text for the class. My misunderstanding. Was this in the UA? I don't remember but would go check if it was.
Of course Misty Step has been used in my game. Again, just going by the video, Crawford made it sound like the warlock's just going to popping around the battlefield nonstop.
It’s one of those cases where the mechanics don’t reconcile nicely with the roleplay some people want. Some people like the idea of framing their Warlock as an “up by their own bootstraps” caster who personally did a bunch of legwork to get their power, rather than going through the typical transactional process, and there’s a few blurbs in the description that support that narrative option. Personally, I’d say if you actually self-taught yourself magic then you’re still a Wizard, whereas “discovering the secrets of the ancients” sounds more like cribbing someone else’s notes rather than actually learning the underlying mechanics of magic. It’s ultimately mostly arguing over the semantics of the class description, with a bit of bean counting over the distribution of casting stats.
It's in the devblog videos where they provided their rationale for the change. I'll dig up a specific example later.
Even if they could Misty Step at will - which, to be 100% clear, they cannot - D&D is still a turn-based game at the end of the day. Think about it - what's going to happen on most rounds is that the Archfey is going to teleport from point A to point B, then they'll spend the rest of the round in Point B (or within movement distance of point B) where they can be attacked. Does it give them more positioning options, absolutely; does it make them invincible, of course not.
Why the heck are the subclasses now at level 3 ?!?!?
It s a complete nonsense : you are given your powers by a patron BUT for TWO ******* LEVELS you have NO patron !!
And, by the way, all the 1lvl spells granted by the subclasses will be useless because you ll get the 2lvl spells at the same time, making it harder for newbies who have difficulties with spells.
Plus, it makes this class less personal at the first levels. And multiclass in warlock costs much more lvl for the same benefits
So, please, pleeaaase, give us back the 1lvl subclasses
~Ulfgar.
Think of it this way: you do have your patron for those first two levels, but perhaps level 3 is when they choose to fully show themselves to you, rather than being a voice in your head, a nightly dream, or whatever. I feel like a lot of the changes to the 2024 PHB lend themselves well to better roleplay opportunities.
You're also still free to use the 2014 version of the class if that notion appeals to you more.
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You can call me LT. :)
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You have a patron, it just has no mechanical effect.
So just like a paladin's oath has been since the start of 5e where you get the power from your oath, or the same way a cleric works or the way a sorcerer is going to work. At level 1 you have made a deal with an otherworldly entity. That entity does not give you their specific powers until level 3, in some cases your character may not know the nature of the entity you have made the deal with. Or may believe they have made a deal with one type of entity only to realize it is a different one later. This was done for both balance reasons and for the new player experience so they can get the feel for a warlock before being locked in to one of the most character defining decisions at level 1. This is the case for every class.
For Sorcerer's OF COURSE you have a bloodline before level 3, but those specific powers don't manifest in the sorcerer till level 3. For Cleric OF COURSE you have a deity before level 3, but what domain that deity will make you a champion of will not be known till level 3. All of it for balance and for new players to get a feel for a class in the first 2 levels before they are locked into their major subclass decision.
And just because you have level 2 spells doesn't mean level 1 spells are useless that is just a false statement.
Is there an ETA for the warlock article?
When can we expect the article?
I'm liking what I see, and as a DM I really hope my next campaign has a new Warlock.
Lots of good, sadly my favorite subclass they described also is filled with table taboos so will be automatically added to the Banned list... first subclass to be banned outright I think. our table has a table taboo on mind control, and the new GOO is a mindcontrol gaslight powerhouse.
Predictions:
Coffee-lock will no longer be the meme, Fey tank-locks have the right material to become the new meme class. Can't wait for the rules to read them over, see how to make a busted combo.
Also got to say Celestial will probably become the pure healer of choice. Getting a cute kitten as a summons reeks of Final Fantasy 14 Carbuncles. Can we say Pokemon levels of cute?
The rest of the given material has me thinking a mostly Warlock character might be actually very good, but also multiclass combos with Warlock will be even better now.
Oops missclick sorry
~Ulfgar.
I understand this point of view, yet the features of the subclasses should be granted before : for the cleric, your Channel divinity feature makes you a classic cleric until you can finally choose a subclass that will grant you one that fits with your caracter, and concerning the spells : if you have the Spellcasting feature, yes you might use them a little bit at low levels, however Warlocks with their special spell slots will extremely rarely use them for level 1 spells.
I understand the will of making the classes similars for similar strenght but it makes them less personnal, what s really sad.
~Ulfgar.
Weird that the warlock appears to be the only class in which there's a significant delay between the online article and the YT video.
I'd assume that the person who got the assignment got sick or had some other personal issue going on (or just flaked), they need more time to make it happen, and they didn't want to reorder the infodumps for whatever reason.
Much love to the class.
I waiting to see a Subclass that focus on melee builds as pact of the blade.
Fiend and Archfey both seem well-suited to gishing - Archfey due to unparalleled mobility and short-range control effects, Fiend due to significant durability and punishing attackers.
My hope is that they took weapon masteries out of Blade Pact so that that can be the new Hexblade's thing.