A Discussion on how WoTC can make money and not make people mad

Quote from Keeshii >>

At this point, I just want to find what the real change is.  I keep seeing the hyperbole of what it could or would mean, but nobody is talking about what it is.  How much is blown out of proportion?  How much is false?  Regardless of my sentiment for Hasbro or WotC, all I keep seeing flooding the feeds is the what ifs.  

Ultimately, so long as I can play with friends and share with friends, I don't mind dishing out the dollars.  

•  Fact 1: D&D Beyond released DDB Drops
  
  • These include once a month game content (spells, feats, backgrounds etc)
  • Once a week ready made encounters for Maps
• Fact 2: Drops were only available while you have an active subscription and you'd lose access if you stopped subscribing
  • These were available at both subscription tiers
  • They came at no increase to subscription prices
• Fact 3: Drops were originally not shareable via the Master Tier subscription and were only accessible to those who were subscribed
  • You could bypass this by making a homebrew copy of an option and sharing that
  • The DM of a campaign could bypass this (assuming they had a subscription) by going to a players sheet and adding the option
  • There were no initial plans to release the options as digital purchases or in a physical book
• Fact 4: A portion of the community did not like drops for various reasons including but not limited to:
  • Inability to share content
    • WotC response: How they worked with sharing was being reviewed, but not enabling content sharing was a business decision based on improving the value of subscriptions
  • The idea of subscription only options:
    • WotC response: It was being considered to offer drops for purchase in some form of quarterly or yearly digital bundle
  • The idea of digital only options
    • WotC response: It was stated the content options represented game features that weren't polished enough or suited a book release
  • Fear this represented a move towards subscription based D&D
    • Wotc response: WotC stated multiple times they had no plans to move away from physical books
• Fact 5: D&D Beyond changed the content sharing to allow Master Tier subscriptions to share drops (and Maps soon)

If I have the chance, I'll try and source all the WotC statements, but can't do that right now

Quote from BigHeartedGuy >>

Quote from LanBandit >>

So what? Reinvent away! Isn't that what is happening now anyway!?!

 No, it's not. What you suggested would require completely starting from scratch on elements like the marketplace and subscriptions and building out non-scalable, cost-prohibitive new features (providing player character premium artwork). What is happening now is that WotC is rebuilding the infrastructure that underlies the site. After years of accrued technical debt, they need to do it to keep growing the site and it's features. That is growth, not reinvention. Building something entirely new adds long periods of alpha and beta testing, almost certainly a limited or gated initial release for public beta testing (oh the gnashing of teeth that would cause), lots of new bugs and a much higher cost to WotC. Guess who would likely absorb that cost.

What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?

Quote from LanBandit >>

Quote from BigHeartedGuy >>

Quote from LanBandit >>

So what? Reinvent away! Isn't that what is happening now anyway!?!

 No, it's not. What you suggested would require completely starting from scratch on elements like the marketplace and subscriptions and building out non-scalable, cost-prohibitive new features (providing player character premium artwork). What is happening now is that WotC is rebuilding the infrastructure that underlies the site. After years of accrued technical debt, they need to do it to keep growing the site and it's features. That is growth, not reinvention. Building something entirely new adds long periods of alpha and beta testing, almost certainly a limited or gated initial release for public beta testing (oh the gnashing of teeth that would cause), lots of new bugs and a much higher cost to WotC. Guess who would likely absorb that cost.

What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?

As has previously been pointed out, that's not the purpose of this thread. The point, again, is what they can do to make money and not make people mad. I think there is a certain segment that are going to find offense no matter what Wizard's does, but for the majority of people I think the answer is to listen to community feedback and keep people informed. Both are things that they have made big improvements in recently as can easily be seen in their change of course with Drops.

Quote from BigHeartedGuy >>

Quote from LanBandit >>

Quote from BigHeartedGuy >>

Quote from LanBandit >>

So what? Reinvent away! Isn't that what is happening now anyway!?!

 No, it's not. What you suggested would require completely starting from scratch on elements like the marketplace and subscriptions and building out non-scalable, cost-prohibitive new features (providing player character premium artwork). What is happening now is that WotC is rebuilding the infrastructure that underlies the site. After years of accrued technical debt, they need to do it to keep growing the site and it's features. That is growth, not reinvention. Building something entirely new adds long periods of alpha and beta testing, almost certainly a limited or gated initial release for public beta testing (oh the gnashing of teeth that would cause), lots of new bugs and a much higher cost to WotC. Guess who would likely absorb that cost.

What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?

As has previously been pointed out, that's not the purpose of this thread. The point, again, is what they can do to make money and not make people mad. I think there is a certain segment that are going to find offense no matter what Wizard's does, but for the majority of people I think the answer is to listen to community feedback and keep people informed. Both are things that they have made big improvements in recently as can easily be seen in their change of course with Drops.

Quote from BigHeartedGuy >>

Quote from LanBandit >>

Quote from BigHeartedGuy >>

Quote from LanBandit >>

So what? Reinvent away! Isn't that what is happening now anyway!?!

 No, it's not. What you suggested would require completely starting from scratch on elements like the marketplace and subscriptions and building out non-scalable, cost-prohibitive new features (providing player character premium artwork). What is happening now is that WotC is rebuilding the infrastructure that underlies the site. After years of accrued technical debt, they need to do it to keep growing the site and it's features. That is growth, not reinvention. Building something entirely new adds long periods of alpha and beta testing, almost certainly a limited or gated initial release for public beta testing (oh the gnashing of teeth that would cause), lots of new bugs and a much higher cost to WotC. Guess who would likely absorb that cost.

What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?

As has previously been pointed out, that's not the purpose of this thread. The point, again, is what they can do to make money and not make people mad. I think there is a certain segment that are going to find offense no matter what Wizard's does, but for the majority of people I think the answer is to listen to community feedback and keep people informed. Both are things that they have made big improvements in recently as can easily be seen in their change of course with Drops.

Then what new suggestions might you have for "how WoTC can make money and not make people mad", besides those already implemented, or on the roadmap? You seem quite knowledgeable, regarding this topic, I am certain you have some ideas that you haven't yet shared!

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.

If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.

Quote from ApplePaladin >>

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.

If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that waThere's a suggestion!

Quote from ApplePaladin >>

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.

If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.

 There's a great suggestion for the next edition! Maybe there's someplace suggestions can be upvoted, if the community likes them!?!

Quote from ApplePaladin >>

I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.

If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.

I did not mean to offend you on BigHeartedGuy's behalf. Please accept my humble, and sincere apologies! As I hope everyone else, especially BigHeartedGuy, will do. I clearly do not understand how forums work, nor have anything meaningful to contribute.

Quote from ApplePaladin >>

If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.

 There's already been a lot of complaints about having to "rebuy" Van Richten's in this latest update, which to some degree are fair, but it's been 5 years between Ravenloft sourcebooks (2016, 2021, 2026).  That said, It's still a decent chunk of work to do the rebalancing and upgrading.  Artificer as a whole class took a bit of tweaking and overhaul, and they've been getting  alot of subclasses out in books.  They're clearly trying to get things back up to the wide array of options as fast as they can, but selling 200-400 page books is their core publishing business.  People forget with all this digitization that WOTC has repeatedly pointed out that their primary revenue stream is selling paper books.

The thing that will really irritate me is if they 're-release' the 5e campaigns as 5.5 instead of producing new ones.  Enough people are going to start clamouring for new pre-written adventures soon enough, but just because the system changed doesn't mean you can re-play Tyranny of Dragons or Princes of the Apocalypse again.

Quote from Perringaiden >>

Quote from ApplePaladin >>

If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.

 There's already been a lot of complaints about having to "rebuy" Van Richten's in this latest update, which to some degree are fair, but it's been 5 years between Ravenloft sourcebooks (2016, 2021, 2026).  That said, It's still a decent chunk of work to do the rebalancing and upgrading.  Artificer as a whole class took a bit of tweaking and overhaul, and they've been getting  alot of subclasses out in books.  They're clearly trying to get things back up to the wide array of options as fast as they can, but selling 200-400 page books is their core publishing business.  People forget with all this digitization that WOTC has repeatedly pointed out that their primary revenue stream is selling paper books.

The thing that will really irritate me is if they 're-release' the 5e campaigns as 5.5 instead of producing new ones.  Enough people are going to start clamouring for new pre-written adventures soon enough, but just because the system changed doesn't mean you can re-play Tyranny of Dragons or Princes of the Apocalypse again.

 That creates a counter-problem w/people demanding adventures be perfect to every conceivable play style or else it's bad/slop/a conspiracy.

There is NOTHING that can be done to prevent people from being mad, because you can't please everyone who wields outrage short of self-obliteration and immediate & perpetual restitution to each & every degree of "victim".

Quote from MaedraDawnkeeper >>

 That creates a counter-problem w/people demanding adventures be perfect to every conceivable play style or else it's bad/slop/a conspiracy.

There is NOTHING that can be done to prevent people from being mad, because you can't please everyone who wields outrage short of self-obliteration and immediate & perpetual restitution to each & every degree of "victim".

 New adventures is bad?

Quote from Perringaiden >>

Quote from MaedraDawnkeeper >>

 That creates a counter-problem w/people demanding adventures be perfect to every conceivable play style or else it's bad/slop/a conspiracy.

There is NOTHING that can be done to prevent people from being mad, because you can't please everyone who wields outrage short of self-obliteration and immediate & perpetual restitution to each & every degree of "victim".

 New adventures is bad?

 No.

But the howling void of outrage will not be satisfied until it has consumed all of Hasbro.

It is a bit strange that we’re coming up for two years since the new PHB dropped and we’ve yet to see an actual campaign for 5.5. That’s a very big and obvious gap in their releases. When even was the last campaign? Vecna in 2024 which sold badly, before that there was Phandelver and Below that was essential a retread of LMoP and a rerelease of Tyranny of Dragons. I think before that it was Dragonlance, in 2022 which again sold badly. Maybe they’ve taken the wrong lesson and instead of “bad things sell badly” they’ve decided it’s campaigns themselves that do 

Quote from CunningSmile >>

It is a bit strange that we’re coming up for two years since the new PHB dropped and we’ve yet to see an actual campaign for 5.5. That’s a very big and obvious gap in their releases. When even was the last campaign? Vecna in 2024 which sold badly, before that there was Phandelver and Below that was essential a retread of LMoP and a rerelease of Tyranny of Dragons. I think before that it was Dragonlance, in 2022 which again sold badly. Maybe they’ve taken the wrong lesson and instead of “bad things sell badly” they’ve decided it’s campaigns themselves that do 

 I remember seeing a lot of "Why do you keep making campaigns, I just want anthologies" posts.  The most recent adventure books were (in reverse chron, ignoring starters)

• Dungeon Delves (2024)
• Quests from the Infinite Staircase
• Vecna: Eve of Ruin
• Phandelver and Below
• Keys from the Golden Vault
• Tyranny of Dragons (re-release)
• Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen
• Journeys through the Radiant Citadel
• Critical Role: Call of the Netherdeep
• Wild Beyond the Witchlight
• Candlekeep Mysteries
• icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden

So I'm not sure that it's a case of "They don't do campaigns" but more of a "They're focused on the source books, not the campaigns" right now.  Remembering that every sourcebook has had a number of adventures (ignoring Heroes of Faerun for obvious reasons), and if you include Last Flight of the Recluse.  The Adventures in Faerun book is filled with them and so is the Ravenloft book, and I really wish they'd done the same for Eberron.

I think it's more a case of "We need to update everything, and people can still play the old campaigns with new rules", but I do hope they come up with some new campaigns at some point.

Quote from Perringaiden >>

Quote from CunningSmile >>

It is a bit strange that we’re coming up for two years since the new PHB dropped and we’ve yet to see an actual campaign for 5.5. That’s a very big and obvious gap in their releases. When even was the last campaign? Vecna in 2024 which sold badly, before that there was Phandelver and Below that was essential a retread of LMoP and a rerelease of Tyranny of Dragons. I think before that it was Dragonlance, in 2022 which again sold badly. Maybe they’ve taken the wrong lesson and instead of “bad things sell badly” they’ve decided it’s campaigns themselves that do 

 I remember seeing a lot of "Why do you keep making campaigns, I just want anthologies" posts.  The most recent adventure books were (in reverse chron, ignoring starters)

• Dungeon Delves (2024)
• Quests from the Infinite Staircase
• Vecna: Eve of Ruin
• Phandelver and Below
• Keys from the Golden Vault
• Tyranny of Dragons (re-release)
• Dragonlance: Shadow of the Dragon Queen
• Journeys through the Radiant Citadel
• Critical Role: Call of the Netherdeep
• Wild Beyond the Witchlight
• Candlekeep Mysteries
• icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden

So I'm not sure that it's a case of "They don't do campaigns" but more of a "They're focused on the source books, not the campaigns" right now.  Remembering that every sourcebook has had a number of adventures (ignoring Heroes of Faerun for obvious reasons), and if you include Last Flight of the Recluse.  The Adventures in Faerun book is filled with them and so is the Ravenloft book, and I really wish they'd done the same for Eberron.

I think it's more a case of "We need to update everything, and people can still play the old campaigns with new rules", but I do hope they come up with some new campaigns at some point.

 The anthologies are good, some of them are great, it would just be nice to get something with a storyline again that doesn’t need me to think of a way to string together a dozen one shots 

We're going to have a campaing this year, is in the roadmap

*Dragon Delves

As enamored as I am with the beasts myself, I've made this same mistake more than once.

Quote from sabin76 >>

*Dragon Delves

As enamored as I am with the beasts myself, I've made this same mistake more than once.

 Lol me thinking that I missed a book when in reality that book has such a Quantum Name. They should have just called it "Dungeon and Dragon Delves

Quote from sabin76 >>

*Dragon Delves

As enamored as I am with the beasts myself, I've made this same mistake more than once.

 https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/2136-d-d-2026-calendar-release

Care to point out where?  If you mean deadfall, it's not described as a Campaign.

Quote from Perringaiden >>

Quote from sabin76 >>

*Dragon Delves

As enamored as I am with the beasts myself, I've made this same mistake more than once.

 https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/2136-d-d-2026-calendar-release

Care to point out where?  If you mean deadfall, it's not described as a Campaign.

You wrote "Dungeon Delves (2024)"

I was simply pointing out the mistake, and that it was common enough for me to make it as well.

Quote from sabin76 >>

Quote from Perringaiden >>

Quote from sabin76 >>

*Dragon Delves

As enamored as I am with the beasts myself, I've made this same mistake more than once.

 https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/2136-d-d-2026-calendar-release

Care to point out where?  If you mean deadfall, it's not described as a Campaign.

You wrote "Dungeon Delves (2024)"

I was simply pointing out the mistake, and that it was common enough for me to make it as well.

 Sorry, quoted the wrong post.