"productive ways for WotC to engage with otherwise disaffected D&D fans"
They do engage. They keep making books for the book lovers. They have an app for the app lovers. They offer free use of online servises for limited charavters, and dm's can share content with all their players.
And still, some people just wanna be disaffected.
It is a little disappointing that they engage on Reddit far more than they do here on the forums.
"productive ways for WotC to engage with otherwise disaffected D&D fans"
They do engage. They keep making books for the book lovers. They have an app for the app lovers. They offer free use of online servises for limited charavters, and dm's can share content with all their players.
And still, some people just wanna be disaffected.
It is a little disappointing that they engage on Reddit far more than they do here on the forums.
This is a sentiment I can get behind. Reddit is so impermanent as far as engagement goes. I appreciate you going to the trouble of posting those, BTW.
I suspect Reddit has a better ROI on engagement than the forums. The forums represent a small clique of users who exist within their own niches. Reddit on the other hand has a much wider reach. As such, if you've only got so many hours in your day, going for the platform that reaches 1,000 users is going to be a better use of your time than the platform that reaches 100.
I say this as someone who loves the forums and loathes reddit—I see the fundamental practicality in using the latter over the former. My suggestion to anyone else who feels the same would be to make a reddit account, only join r/dndbeyond, and then follow the following profiles (the follow button is in the top right)
I suspect Reddit has a better ROI on engagement than the forums. The forums represent a small clique of users who exist within their own niches. Reddit on the other hand has a much wider reach. As such, if you've only got so many hours in your day, going for the platform that reaches 1,000 users is going to be a better use of your time than the platform that reaches 100.
I say this as someone who loves the forums and loathes reddit—I see the fundamental practicality in using the latter over the former. My suggestion to anyone else who feels the same would be to make a reddit account, only join r/dndbeyond, and then follow the following profiles (the follow button is in the top right)
In theory this should mean you are automatically notified when any staff member posts and your feed will only be D&D Beyond related.
"Better ROI" doesn't account for near silence from anyone but Spamandtuna who is there to manage the forums. The D&D Discord has more engagement, and it's far more ephemeral and "close-knit". At least on the forums you could link to responses, where as with Discord, it's gone within minutes never to be found again
I think the ROI for the forums would actually be pretty high, simply because the "investment" is incredibly minimal. All they need do it create a post with a link to what they're actually doing (whether it's on Reddit, or elsewhere), and let the forums do their thing. You wouldn't use it for the actual AMA, for instance, but as a permanent, easily searched (and hopefully even pinned until irrelevant) forum entity, it has longevity that is the very staple of forums.
But I feel I've taken this a bit too far off topic, since this won't generate them much money (as much as it would make me happy to see).
I think the ROI for the forums would actually be pretty high, simply because the "investment" is incredibly minimal. All they need do it create a post with a link to what they're actually doing (whether it's on Reddit, or elsewhere), and let the forums do their thing. You wouldn't use it for the actual AMA, for instance, but as a permanent, easily searched (and hopefully even pinned until irrelevant) forum entity, it has longevity that is the very staple of forums.
But I feel I've taken this a bit too far off topic, since this won't generate them much money (as much as it would make me happy to see).
I think maybe you're misunderstanding what the engagement is on Reddit. Anything that warrants a post on Reddit actually gets a post here (all the Reddit posts are are links to changelog updates or articles). Outside that, it's replies to threads, which would be time intensive* if every time a member of staff made a post on Reddit they'd have to then come over to the forums and cross link it
*I'm referring to net time investment across daily duties, not individual time investment
I think it's more that the changelogs and articles don't necessarily get forum posts. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I only use DDB for the forums, my books, and maps. I've gone to the News and Updates subforum a few times, but that frankly doesn't have much in the way of News or Updates that are at all current... Clicking on the changelog link on reddit just now was the first time I've ever even seen that.
But that does assuage at least most of my grievances in that regard. They are here-ish. And they are permanent-ish. I just wish they'd use the actual forum for it, too. I might also be wrong in that, but I'm not seeing said posts anywhere.
At this point, I just want to find what the real change is. I keep seeing the hyperbole of what it could or would mean, but nobody is talking about what it is. How much is blown out of proportion? How much is false? Regardless of my sentiment for Hasbro or WotC, all I keep seeing flooding the feeds is the what ifs.
Ultimately, so long as I can play with friends and share with friends, I don't mind dishing out the dollars.
At this point, I just want to find what the real change is. I keep seeing the hyperbole of what it could or would mean, but nobody is talking about what it is. How much is blown out of proportion? How much is false? Regardless of my sentiment for Hasbro or WotC, all I keep seeing flooding the feeds is the what ifs.
Ultimately, so long as I can play with friends and share with friends, I don't mind dishing out the dollars.
Fact 1: D&D Beyond released DDB Drops
These include once a month game content (spells, feats, backgrounds etc)
Once a week ready made encounters for Maps
Fact 2: Drops were only available while you have an active subscription and you'd lose access if you stopped subscribing
These were available at both subscription tiers
They came at no increase to subscription prices
Fact 3: Drops were originally not shareable via the Master Tier subscription and were only accessible to those who were subscribed
You could bypass this by making a homebrew copy of an option and sharing that
The DM of a campaign could bypass this (assuming they had a subscription) by going to a players sheet and adding the option
There were no initial plans to release the options as digital purchases or in a physical book
Fact 4: A portion of the community did not like drops for various reasons including but not limited to:
Inability to share content
WotC response: How they worked with sharing was being reviewed, but not enabling content sharing was a business decision based on improving the value of subscriptions
The idea of subscription only options:
WotC response: It was being considered to offer drops for purchase in some form of quarterly or yearly digital bundle
The idea of digital only options
WotC response: It was stated the content options represented game features that weren't polished enough or suited a book release
Fear this represented a move towards subscription based D&D
Wotc response: WotC stated multiple times they had no plans to move away from physical books
Fact 5: D&D Beyond changed the content sharing to allow Master Tier subscriptions to share drops (and Maps soon)
If I have the chance, I'll try and source all the WotC statements, but can't do that right now
So what? Reinvent away! Isn't that what is happening now anyway!?!
No, it's not. What you suggested would require completely starting from scratch on elements like the marketplace and subscriptions and building out non-scalable, cost-prohibitive new features (providing player character premium artwork). What is happening now is that WotC is rebuilding the infrastructure that underlies the site. After years of accrued technical debt, they need to do it to keep growing the site and it's features. That is growth, not reinvention. Building something entirely new adds long periods of alpha and beta testing, almost certainly a limited or gated initial release for public beta testing (oh the gnashing of teeth that would cause), lots of new bugs and a much higher cost to WotC. Guess who would likely absorb that cost.
What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?
So what? Reinvent away! Isn't that what is happening now anyway!?!
No, it's not. What you suggested would require completely starting from scratch on elements like the marketplace and subscriptions and building out non-scalable, cost-prohibitive new features (providing player character premium artwork). What is happening now is that WotC is rebuilding the infrastructure that underlies the site. After years of accrued technical debt, they need to do it to keep growing the site and it's features. That is growth, not reinvention. Building something entirely new adds long periods of alpha and beta testing, almost certainly a limited or gated initial release for public beta testing (oh the gnashing of teeth that would cause), lots of new bugs and a much higher cost to WotC. Guess who would likely absorb that cost.
What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?
As has previously been pointed out, that's not the purpose of this thread. The point, again, is what they can do to make money and not make people mad. I think there is a certain segment that are going to find offense no matter what Wizard's does, but for the majority of people I think the answer is to listen to community feedback and keep people informed. Both are things that they have made big improvements in recently as can easily be seen in their change of course with Drops.
So what? Reinvent away! Isn't that what is happening now anyway!?!
No, it's not. What you suggested would require completely starting from scratch on elements like the marketplace and subscriptions and building out non-scalable, cost-prohibitive new features (providing player character premium artwork). What is happening now is that WotC is rebuilding the infrastructure that underlies the site. After years of accrued technical debt, they need to do it to keep growing the site and it's features. That is growth, not reinvention. Building something entirely new adds long periods of alpha and beta testing, almost certainly a limited or gated initial release for public beta testing (oh the gnashing of teeth that would cause), lots of new bugs and a much higher cost to WotC. Guess who would likely absorb that cost.
What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?
As has previously been pointed out, that's not the purpose of this thread. The point, again, is what they can do to make money and not make people mad. I think there is a certain segment that are going to find offense no matter what Wizard's does, but for the majority of people I think the answer is to listen to community feedback and keep people informed. Both are things that they have made big improvements in recently as can easily be seen in their change of course with Drops.
So what? Reinvent away! Isn't that what is happening now anyway!?!
No, it's not. What you suggested would require completely starting from scratch on elements like the marketplace and subscriptions and building out non-scalable, cost-prohibitive new features (providing player character premium artwork). What is happening now is that WotC is rebuilding the infrastructure that underlies the site. After years of accrued technical debt, they need to do it to keep growing the site and it's features. That is growth, not reinvention. Building something entirely new adds long periods of alpha and beta testing, almost certainly a limited or gated initial release for public beta testing (oh the gnashing of teeth that would cause), lots of new bugs and a much higher cost to WotC. Guess who would likely absorb that cost.
What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?
As has previously been pointed out, that's not the purpose of this thread. The point, again, is what they can do to make money and not make people mad. I think there is a certain segment that are going to find offense no matter what Wizard's does, but for the majority of people I think the answer is to listen to community feedback and keep people informed. Both are things that they have made big improvements in recently as can easily be seen in their change of course with Drops.
Then what new suggestions might you have for "how WoTC can make money and not make people mad", besides those already implemented, or on the roadmap? You seem quite knowledgeable, regarding this topic, I am certain you have some ideas that you haven't yet shared!
I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.
If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.
I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.
If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that waThere's a suggestion!
I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.
If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.
There's a great suggestion for the next edition! Maybe there's someplace suggestions can be upvoted, if the community likes them!?!
I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.
If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.
I did not mean to offend you on BigHeartedGuy's behalf. Please accept my humble, and sincere apologies! As I hope everyone else, especially BigHeartedGuy, will do. I clearly do not understand how forums work, nor have anything meaningful to contribute.
If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.
There's already been a lot of complaints about having to "rebuy" Van Richten's in this latest update, which to some degree are fair, but it's been 5 years between Ravenloft sourcebooks (2016, 2021, 2026). That said, It's still a decent chunk of work to do the rebalancing and upgrading. Artificer as a whole class took a bit of tweaking and overhaul, and they've been getting alot of subclasses out in books. They're clearly trying to get things back up to the wide array of options as fast as they can, but selling 200-400 page books is their core publishing business. People forget with all this digitization that WOTC has repeatedly pointed out that their primary revenue stream is selling paper books.
The thing that will really irritate me is if they 're-release' the 5e campaigns as 5.5 instead of producing new ones. Enough people are going to start clamouring for new pre-written adventures soon enough, but just because the system changed doesn't mean you can re-play Tyranny of Dragons or Princes of the Apocalypse again.
If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.
There's already been a lot of complaints about having to "rebuy" Van Richten's in this latest update, which to some degree are fair, but it's been 5 years between Ravenloft sourcebooks (2016, 2021, 2026). That said, It's still a decent chunk of work to do the rebalancing and upgrading. Artificer as a whole class took a bit of tweaking and overhaul, and they've been getting alot of subclasses out in books. They're clearly trying to get things back up to the wide array of options as fast as they can, but selling 200-400 page books is their core publishing business. People forget with all this digitization that WOTC has repeatedly pointed out that their primary revenue stream is selling paper books.
The thing that will really irritate me is if they 're-release' the 5e campaigns as 5.5 instead of producing new ones. Enough people are going to start clamouring for new pre-written adventures soon enough, but just because the system changed doesn't mean you can re-play Tyranny of Dragons or Princes of the Apocalypse again.
That creates a counter-problem w/people demanding adventures be perfect to every conceivable play style or else it's bad/slop/a conspiracy.
There is NOTHING that can be done to prevent people from being mad, because you can't please everyone who wields outrage short of self-obliteration and immediate & perpetual restitution to each & every degree of "victim".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
That creates a counter-problem w/people demanding adventures be perfect to every conceivable play style or else it's bad/slop/a conspiracy.
There is NOTHING that can be done to prevent people from being mad, because you can't please everyone who wields outrage short of self-obliteration and immediate & perpetual restitution to each & every degree of "victim".
That creates a counter-problem w/people demanding adventures be perfect to every conceivable play style or else it's bad/slop/a conspiracy.
There is NOTHING that can be done to prevent people from being mad, because you can't please everyone who wields outrage short of self-obliteration and immediate & perpetual restitution to each & every degree of "victim".
New adventures is bad?
No.
But the howling void of outrage will not be satisfied until it has consumed all of Hasbro.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
It is a bit strange that we’re coming up for two years since the new PHB dropped and we’ve yet to see an actual campaign for 5.5. That’s a very big and obvious gap in their releases. When even was the last campaign? Vecna in 2024 which sold badly, before that there was Phandelver and Below that was essential a retread of LMoP and a rerelease of Tyranny of Dragons. I think before that it was Dragonlance, in 2022 which again sold badly. Maybe they’ve taken the wrong lesson and instead of “bad things sell badly” they’ve decided it’s campaigns themselves that do
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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It is a little disappointing that they engage on Reddit far more than they do here on the forums.
This is a sentiment I can get behind. Reddit is so impermanent as far as engagement goes. I appreciate you going to the trouble of posting those, BTW.
I suspect Reddit has a better ROI on engagement than the forums. The forums represent a small clique of users who exist within their own niches. Reddit on the other hand has a much wider reach. As such, if you've only got so many hours in your day, going for the platform that reaches 1,000 users is going to be a better use of your time than the platform that reaches 100.
I say this as someone who loves the forums and loathes reddit—I see the fundamental practicality in using the latter over the former. My suggestion to anyone else who feels the same would be to make a reddit account, only join r/dndbeyond, and then follow the following profiles (the follow button is in the top right)
In theory this should mean you are automatically notified when any staff member posts and your feed will only be D&D Beyond related.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
"Better ROI" doesn't account for near silence from anyone but Spamandtuna who is there to manage the forums. The D&D Discord has more engagement, and it's far more ephemeral and "close-knit". At least on the forums you could link to responses, where as with Discord, it's gone within minutes never to be found again
I think the ROI for the forums would actually be pretty high, simply because the "investment" is incredibly minimal. All they need do it create a post with a link to what they're actually doing (whether it's on Reddit, or elsewhere), and let the forums do their thing. You wouldn't use it for the actual AMA, for instance, but as a permanent, easily searched (and hopefully even pinned until irrelevant) forum entity, it has longevity that is the very staple of forums.
But I feel I've taken this a bit too far off topic, since this won't generate them much money (as much as it would make me happy to see).
I think maybe you're misunderstanding what the engagement is on Reddit. Anything that warrants a post on Reddit actually gets a post here (all the Reddit posts are are links to changelog updates or articles). Outside that, it's replies to threads, which would be time intensive* if every time a member of staff made a post on Reddit they'd have to then come over to the forums and cross link it
*I'm referring to net time investment across daily duties, not individual time investment
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I think it's more that the changelogs and articles don't necessarily get forum posts. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I only use DDB for the forums, my books, and maps. I've gone to the News and Updates subforum a few times, but that frankly doesn't have much in the way of News or Updates that are at all current... Clicking on the changelog link on reddit just now was the first time I've ever even seen that.
But that does assuage at least most of my grievances in that regard. They are here-ish. And they are permanent-ish. I just wish they'd use the actual forum for it, too. I might also be wrong in that, but I'm not seeing said posts anywhere.
At this point, I just want to find what the real change is. I keep seeing the hyperbole of what it could or would mean, but nobody is talking about what it is. How much is blown out of proportion? How much is false? Regardless of my sentiment for Hasbro or WotC, all I keep seeing flooding the feeds is the what ifs.
Ultimately, so long as I can play with friends and share with friends, I don't mind dishing out the dollars.
If I have the chance, I'll try and source all the WotC statements, but can't do that right now
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
What suggestions do you have for WoTC to improve profitability?
As has previously been pointed out, that's not the purpose of this thread. The point, again, is what they can do to make money and not make people mad. I think there is a certain segment that are going to find offense no matter what Wizard's does, but for the majority of people I think the answer is to listen to community feedback and keep people informed. Both are things that they have made big improvements in recently as can easily be seen in their change of course with Drops.
Then what new suggestions might you have for "how WoTC can make money and not make people mad", besides those already implemented, or on the roadmap? You seem quite knowledgeable, regarding this topic, I am certain you have some ideas that you haven't yet shared!
I'm not sure what you think you're accomplishing by badgering BigHeartedGuy. He's not obligated to make a proposal, and him not making a proposal doesn't mean he's wrong about your idea being unworkable. Learning to accept constructive criticism gracefully is an impressive skill that pays dividends in life.
If I had my druthers, WotC would sell a reasonably priced update pack that brings all the 5E subclasses up to 5.5E, because I'd find it super convenient to get them all at once. But while that might be what I want, I suspect some folks would get upset about having to re-buy all the subclasses that way.
There's a great suggestion for the next edition! Maybe there's someplace suggestions can be upvoted, if the community likes them!?!
I did not mean to offend you on BigHeartedGuy's behalf. Please accept my humble, and sincere apologies! As I hope everyone else, especially BigHeartedGuy, will do. I clearly do not understand how forums work, nor have anything meaningful to contribute.
There's already been a lot of complaints about having to "rebuy" Van Richten's in this latest update, which to some degree are fair, but it's been 5 years between Ravenloft sourcebooks (2016, 2021, 2026). That said, It's still a decent chunk of work to do the rebalancing and upgrading. Artificer as a whole class took a bit of tweaking and overhaul, and they've been getting alot of subclasses out in books. They're clearly trying to get things back up to the wide array of options as fast as they can, but selling 200-400 page books is their core publishing business. People forget with all this digitization that WOTC has repeatedly pointed out that their primary revenue stream is selling paper books.
The thing that will really irritate me is if they 're-release' the 5e campaigns as 5.5 instead of producing new ones. Enough people are going to start clamouring for new pre-written adventures soon enough, but just because the system changed doesn't mean you can re-play Tyranny of Dragons or Princes of the Apocalypse again.
That creates a counter-problem w/people demanding adventures be perfect to every conceivable play style or else it's bad/slop/a conspiracy.
There is NOTHING that can be done to prevent people from being mad, because you can't please everyone who wields outrage short of self-obliteration and immediate & perpetual restitution to each & every degree of "victim".
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
New adventures is bad?
No.
But the howling void of outrage will not be satisfied until it has consumed all of Hasbro.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
It is a bit strange that we’re coming up for two years since the new PHB dropped and we’ve yet to see an actual campaign for 5.5. That’s a very big and obvious gap in their releases. When even was the last campaign? Vecna in 2024 which sold badly, before that there was Phandelver and Below that was essential a retread of LMoP and a rerelease of Tyranny of Dragons. I think before that it was Dragonlance, in 2022 which again sold badly. Maybe they’ve taken the wrong lesson and instead of “bad things sell badly” they’ve decided it’s campaigns themselves that do