Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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With Arcana Unleashed out, it got me thinking. I've always found it interesting with the juxtaposition between PC and NPC spellcasters in 5.5e. For those of you who don't know:
While PC's have spell lists and spell slots, NPC's only have limited asymmetric spell uses. This I totally get, spell slots can be a micromanaging nightmare for a DM which is running the rest of the game. However, they also all have a massive blaster ability called Arcane Burst. Multiple attacks in one round of high force damage, at melee or ranged. This I sort of get, as a monster needs a consistent damage output.
However, this does make me confused. Players cannot do this AT ALL. Cantrips don't even come close to the damage level of this, and the closest thing you can get is a Warlock with all the eldritch blast invocations. But even that is far below the damage par of this. I know PCs and NPCs have different rules for a reason, but this just seems so much more different than, for instance, marital PC's vs NPCs So, what do y'all think of this? Does it make sense or no?
It makes sense. PCs don't get Legendary Actions, Legendary Resistance, or auto-imposing conditions on an attack hit (in almost all circumstances). Monsters follow different rules, just like in almost any game.
Yes, but this is a very consistent thing though. Regarding Legendary Actions and Resistance, those are designed for boss monsters to provide a meaningful challenge for the characters. Auto imposing conditions is also one thing, but those are usually not consistent. Almost every spellcaster in 5.5e has Arcane Burst, which is a massive, reliable damage. And the only explanation behind this is: "They're not a player" just doesn't make sense, imo.
"This I totally get, spell slots can be a micromanaging nightmare for a DM which is running the rest of the game."
You answered your own question. It's to lessen the DM's workload.
This is what the game has become, but I, personally, have always preferred one set of rules for everything (PCs, NPCs, Monsters, etc.). If the game were balanced, there'd only be one set of rules and the game wouldn't need to have different abilities available to only PCs and a different set available to only NPCs/Monsters. For all their talk of 'balance', 5.5e is (despite all the good things about it) horribly out of balance.
As for me, and my groups, we give NPCs the same opportunities that PCs get. If you're a PC in one of our games, and you go up against a wizard, it's follows the same rules as your wizard does - and gets access to the same spells, spell slots, abilities, hp, etc. As for the idea that doing it the 5.5 way somehow lessens the DM's workload, I don't see that at all. It's just as easy to use a character sheet for each NPC as it is to use a statblock if using digital resources. If on paper, it's really not that hard to just list out the important details (aka statblock style) while keeping all the abilities that a PC gets. Most PCs don't even use all of their abilities, so just do the same for the NPCs (pick the ones they'll focus on, but if needed, the other abilities are still there).
It also gives the players stability knowing that the same rules apply to them as apply to the baddies, and it allows them to know what to expect. If they have a Paladin in the group, they'll know exactly what to expect from the Paladin they face. Same for Wizard, Warlock, etc... AND the idea that PCs can almost never counterspell enemies (because their attacks are no longer considered 'spells', while the enemies can counterspell them, is utterly unfair to the PCs.
Anyway, that's my 2.4 cp on the topic - but the devs have made it clear, they have no desire to actually balance the game.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
I'm not sure you get what people mean when they talk about the workload of running a spellcaster. Would you rather manage a small list of spells or a giant one?
Personally, I think that monsters using different rules than PCs increases balance. An Archmage really wouldn't be much of a challenge if it only had 2od6 + constitution, or around 100 hit points.
As someone who has DM'd for over 40 years, I know exactly what is meant and how much work things actually are.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Are you actually saying that a simplified stat block and a non-simplified one are just as difficult (or not difficult) to run? That does not make sense.
Let's count the mouse clicks shall we?
Using DnDBeyond's Beta (2014) Encounter tool: Click on monster whose turn it is to open their stat block, scroll to the attack you wish to use, click on it to roll the dice.
Using DnDBeyond Character Sheet for the evil NPC instead of a statblock: When the NPC's turn comes up, click on the browser tab with the open character sheet, scroll to the attack or spell you wish to use, click on it to roll the dice.
3 clicks of the mouse vs 3 clicks of the mouse. The only difference is the amount of screen real estate and distance scrolling (with a mouse wheel or touch screen that's a negligible amount of time).
So, yes, I'm saying it really isn't more work. Even spell slots are easy to track, with the click of a mouse, touch of a toggle with your finger in the case of a touch screen, or a hash mark with your pencil if using paper.
Playing D&D since 1982
Have played every version of the game since Basic (original Red Box Set), except that abomination sometimes called 4e.
Arcane Burst was always stupidly OP for the CR of the creatures it was given to, and it's still stupidly OP in Arcana Unleashed.
Any DM who abuses it should get a taste of their own medicine with a party full of True Polymorphed Evoker Archmages blasting 400 DPR at their monsters.
What even is Arcane Burst, tbh? Spells usually take longer to cast than just waving a sword around, so how can archmages attack with four massive damage attacks? It would make more sense if it was buffed version of something a player can do, but it isn't. A PC Wizard can't do anything close to it.
Also, I think that in stat blocks where Arcane Burst is less powerful, like the Necromancer Archmage, it just feels more satisfying.
But look at the basic, normal, run-of-the-mill Mage. This can do three attacks that each deal 3d8+3 damage in one turn at will. What? That is a higher damage output of any CR 6 creature, and its just a normal mid-level wizard NPC.
Fire Bolt at level 6 is 2d10. A CR6 Mage is a "worthy foe" for 4 level 6 players. So in one round, that's 8d10 or 44 damage if they all had Firebolt.
The Mage has three Arcane Burst, meaning 9d8+9, or 49.5 damage.
How is this not "not even close"?
A level 6 Barbarian has 47 max HP without the Tough Origin Feat. That Arcane Burst is strong enough to down ANY PC every single round without expending any daily use or spell slot. That's completely unbalanced.
Most CR 6 creatures sit around 30~35 DPR, with a few boss-like monsters in the 40s, but certainly not 50.
A CR6 creature is not equivalent to a level 6 PC. It's equivalent to Four level 6 PCs. Stop treading CR like Level.
I'm not saying that and you're not hearing me: At level 6, your party encountering a single mage should not result in a player going down every single round.
Stop reading only what you want to read.
If you think the cognitive load between a character sheet with dozens of spells to choose from and a stat block with three you can redress as the story demands is the same you’re either lying to us or lying to yourself. The “number of mouse clicks” is only the same if you already know which spell you’re using and that’s only possible if you have every spell memorised, and even then you’ve still got the decision to make on which spell to use. That is a much great cognitive load than “do this three times, it does X damage”
If I didn't already make this clear: This forum was never about the new spellcasting ways, but how OP and nonsensical arcane burst can be.
To throw in my two pennies, whilst I don't find it too egregious, I don't see why it had to be useable in Melee as well as Ranged. Also Fire Bolt was right there if they just wanted a basic damaging cantrip. All that said I think the damage, whilst high, helps combat the growing power of the 5.5e PC's (maybe not so much Ranger but that's for another thread 😝).
Haven't DM'd with those kinds of foes yet so will wait and see for a complete analysis.
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