I don't get how that one person can say that none of the player/DM requested stuff is on the roadmap. Everything, on there, is pretty much what we have all been wanting. You only have to read the forum posts from people asking for features, or saying that they wish certain features were available, to see that.
I am quite pleased with the stuff that is part of both the short term and long term plan, and I don't understand how that guy can say its all just marketing.
Because they take a lot of time on marketting and not on design.
To them short term plans are 1 year development. While most of that stuff is easy development. Like dice and physics. 1 year of development for 1 feature is a long time.
In comparision...
Fantasy Ground has integrated all the random tables from 5e in a matter of about 3 to 6 weeks. Then if they had bugs, fixed them in about another 3 weeks. Thats far far faster then beyond.
Basically i think they work too much on aesthetics and marketting to get more people on it then they do actually developping stuff. Plus i suspect they dont have a dedicated team.
But thats my opinion. I dont work there. But just comparing to roll20 and fantasy ground... Yeah they take tons more time to develop.
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Do they really spend a lot of time on marketing? They do sponsorships and have Adam doing the dev stream, plus they send community moderators like Oboecrazy to cons. That's it really, nothing too zany. Like, the biggest thing was the Party Presidential Election and that was entirely Critical Role handled.
As for the dice thing being 1 year in development, you don't know that, none of us do. All we know is that it's something that's been recently announced as being 'played around with'.
The random tables is a false comparison; fantasy grounds has the framework for random tables, displaying and executing, it's just a case of data entry. On the other hand, DDB is still figuring out how they want to implement random tables because they're not a VTT service. There's no chat or other such site space to push random results to, so they'd have to implement UI formatting, pop ups for results etc
As for 'aesthetics', isn't DDB's usability one of it's bit draws? Just look at the homebrew tools; that'd development over aesthetic and it gets heavily criticised. Compare to roll20 or Fantasy Grounds, which are powerful tools but get slammed constantly for their steep learning curve.
And saying they "don't have a dedicated team" is just rudeness in the highest regard and I think very much not true.
Sure, you're voice your opinion, and it seems completely unfounded and just a little bit unfair in its disparagement. Plus comparing DDB to roll20/fantasy grounds is apples to oranges.
As a DM, one of the reasons I did not get into VTT services like Roll20 of FG, was due to their complexity. It's not just complicated for a DM who is using those tools for the first time; it's complicated for the players as well, who have to play using those tools.
It is for that very reason that I resisted VTT and online gaming services for so long.
I was introduced to DDB by a fellow DM and although I have not been around since the very beginning; I had a look at DDB and liked its aesthetics and ease of use, and at this point, have been here for quite a while and have begun integrating DDB into my games more and more.
I genuinely think that what the DDB guys are doing is fantastic, and I am not saying that because of their Marketing either. Yes, I have bought some of the digital books, but I have only purchased the ones that I use the most, and buy little bits and pieces of out of all the rest of the books, as and when I need them. Also; where it is also true that I have a Master Tier subscription, that is because my players only have free accounts. As a result, they rely on my sharing content with them, and I also create large numbers of characters, as I use them as NPCs as well.
So it is not the marketing that has won me over; instead, it is the aesthetic, usability of the system, and friendliness of the staff and other community members.
In short, where TTV services like Roll20 and FG, might seemingly provide a more complete service, they do not provide the same level of usability, and you do not get the same sense of community from them as you do from DnDBeyond.
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
Do they really spend a lot of time on marketing? They do sponsorships and have Adam doing the dev stream, plus they send community moderators like Oboecrazy to cons. That's it really, nothing too zany. Like, the biggest thing was the Party Presidential Election and that was entirely Critical Role handled.
As for the dice thing being 1 year in development, you don't know that, none of us do. All we know is that it's something that's been recently announced as being 'played around with'.
The random tables is a false comparison; fantasy grounds has the framework for random tables, displaying and executing, it's just a case of data entry. On the other hand, DDB is still figuring out how they want to implement random tables because they're not a VTT service. There's no chat or other such site space to push random results to, so they'd have to implement UI formatting, pop ups for results etc
As for 'aesthetics', isn't DDB's usability one of it's bit draws? Just look at the homebrew tools; that'd development over aesthetic and it gets heavily criticised. Compare to roll20 or Fantasy Grounds, which are powerful tools but get slammed constantly for their steep learning curve.
And saying they "don't have a dedicated team" is just rudeness in the highest regard and I think very much not true.
Sure, you're voice your opinion, and it seems completely unfounded and just a little bit unfair in its disparagement. Plus comparing DDB to roll20/fantasy grounds is apples to oranges.
Yet you seem to think other developpers didnt have to develop anything. If anything you are trying defend a point that has no foundation. Because yet... Fantasy ground had to develop too. Which was back in 3e era. Also they are there not just for 1 ttrpg but all of them. Imagine if they had to wait 2 years just to get a few export type ? Imagine if doing their dice would of taken 2 years in the making.
As for not knowing...
I am a programmer too... I know what i can do. I know companies want aesthetics a lot. I know companies can take time to make things happens. But that said... If you asked how many of us preffered the features instead of aesthetics... Im quite god damn sure wed all preffered the features.
I know what i know and based on a number of things... They are way behind. At some point roll20 and fantasy ground decided that features is what people are willing to pay for. I just wished beyond did the same.
As a programmer i can also relate to the fact that many are perfectionnist and its hard to stop. But thats also a pithole we expect companies not to fall in.
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DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
and lets not forget this was marketed as a Digital Service with offline in mobile apps. the only thing I can do on a mobile app is download the books. that is all. We have asked for the mobile app to be expanded because not everyone plays where there is great internet/wifi. They said they were working on it. Still waiting....just my $.02.
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I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
and lets not forget this was marketed as a Digital Service with offline in mobile apps. the only thing I can do on a mobile app is download the books. that is all. We have asked for the mobile app to be expanded because not everyone plays where there is great internet/wifi. They said they were working on it. Still waiting....just my $.02.
Let's be honest though, mobile data plans are now so large that standard WiFi is almost absolute anyway, when you can tether your devices and get 60Mbps down and 30Mbps up, using 4G (LTE).
We are now moving into the 5G era as well, which gives even faster and more stable speeds.
So do we really need offline mode?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
I live in a small and very techy country so I only lose connection in elevators and underground parking lots.
But, coverage in the US, for example, and other big countries isn't complete. And sometimes, even when covered, it's not great. I get it why people want offline mode.
There are many places where Telcom X is fine but Telcom Y has no signal, or no one has a signal. Plus, a weak signal means long delays in opening a number of pages.
Yes, offline mode is very necessary. Even if you have play at someone's house. When you move, you may not have wi-fi set up because it takes about a week, so if you meet weekly, that's one session with no wi-fi, and my house does not have good 4G signal, at least with Verizon. And then you have when the power goes out, which is more frequent than other places just because of where I live. So if you don't have character sheets printed out as a backup, you can't play.
My humble opinion is that the features are being rolled out far too slowly. I think D&D Beyond has a great layout and usability in general. But there's simply not much that can be done with it. I want HP tracking. Initiative tracking. Combat tracking. An actual VTT.
It's not actually useful in the ways that would be truly helpful to me.
My humble opinion is that the features are being rolled out far too slowly. I think D&D Beyond has a great layout and usability in general. But there's simply not much that can be done with it. I want HP tracking. Initiative tracking. Combat tracking. An actual VTT.
It's not actually useful in the ways that would be truly helpful to me.
I happen to agree with this sentiment. For the amount of users, the official support from WoTC, and the stated goals of DDB, I would have expected much more progress in terms of the extensive objectives proposed by the team. I have a suspicion however that, as someone mentioned above, the team might actually not be large enough to handle these requests. Furthermore, I think that it's also quite possible that each new release from WoTC adds just enough overhead and complexity that it's all the team can do to make sure that each new book releases on time feature-complete.
My concern is that the majority of the focus is on getting new WotC material ready for release, since that is what WotC cares about. Making by definition HP tracking, Initiative tracking. Combat tracking, mapping, campaign management, VTT, etc... of less concern and that having made them less concern, they are considered, "would be nice, but we need to focus on the marketplace".
My concern is that the majority of the focus is on getting new WotC material ready for release, since that is what WotC cares about. Making by definition HP tracking, Initiative tracking. Combat tracking, mapping, campaign management, VTT, etc... of less concern and that having made them less concern, they are considered, "would be nice, but we need to focus on the marketplace".
Let’s be honest - if they didn’t focus on getting all the official material out on-time, we’d be screaming bloody murder. All the other features are nice and great to have, but the game material is the core of the service.
DDB has said in multiple dev streams they're working on expanding their teams and migrating their databases to large infrastructure to cope with the demand of the service. That takes time and effort.
DDB wants money, so they're obviously rolling out features as fast as they can; the faster they roll out features, the more users they draw in, the more money they make. So complaining that they're not going fast enough for your liking is just a bit entitled, they're literally going as fast as they can.
DDB has said in multiple dev streams they're working on expanding their teams and migrating their databases to large infrastructure to cope with the demand of the service. That takes time and effort.
DDB wants money, so they're obviously rolling out features as fast as they can; the faster they roll out features, the more users they draw in, the more money they make. So complaining that they're not going fast enough for your liking is just a bit entitled, they're literally going as fast as they can.
I'm not sure that they expected such a massive uptake of the DDB services when they launched. At least not in such a mass scale. They have been helped along in bk small part, I think, by their partnership with Wizards and sponsorship of Critical Role.
That is all good news for us end-users, but for the staff and the devs, it creates a nightmare scenario where they can not develop and release services fast enough, to keep up with growth and demand.
Like you said; however, that doesn't mean they aren't working on doing so as fast as they can, and it annoys me slightly when people compare DDB to places like FG or Roll20 as this is not either of those places.
My knee jerk reaction is to say to those people, "if you like FG or Roll20 so much, and feel DDB does not meet your needs, why are you here?" But then my calmer head prevails, and I don't say that.
It does make me sometimes wonder, though.
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I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
My knee jerk reaction is to say to those people, "if you like FG or Roll20 so much, and feel DDB does not meet your needs, why are you here?" But then my calmer head prevails, and I don't say that.
I mean, you're still saying it, just in a passive aggressive fashion.
Well, I think it but I don't actually go ahead and say it every time I see someone saying stuff like that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
So complaining that they're not going fast enough for your liking is just a bit entitled, they're literally going as fast as they can.
I'm not sure I even understand this argument. DDB is competing with a lot of other services, but unlike these services, DDB is officially partnered with WoTC and is trying to be the definitive toolset for D&D5E. That's always been the stated goal. If that's going to be the case, they've got a long way to go, and a huge list of features that need to be implemented. Frankly, there aren't any services out there that can be considered definitive--thus the appeal of the promise of DDB, and also why the lack of progress is disheartening. Furthermore, it's hardly being entitled to expect features from a service that you're paying for, and if no one ever complained about the lack of features or the pace of the releases, DDB would have no reason to think they need to expand their team.
They also need to be careful about what they do. If Wizards think that DDB is no longer representing the interests of WoTC, by making poor decisions that cast themselves or their content in an unfavourable light, they could pull the licensing agreement and their partnership with DDB.
Also, let's be honest. What would you most like to see, a whole load of glitchy services, that does not fit with the brands that DDB represents (including their own), or well tested, polished and integrated solutions that provide high-quality services which fulfil the most request features on the roadmap?
I know which I'd rather have.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
Because they take a lot of time on marketting and not on design.
To them short term plans are 1 year development. While most of that stuff is easy development. Like dice and physics. 1 year of development for 1 feature is a long time.
In comparision...
Fantasy Ground has integrated all the random tables from 5e in a matter of about 3 to 6 weeks. Then if they had bugs, fixed them in about another 3 weeks. Thats far far faster then beyond.
Basically i think they work too much on aesthetics and marketting to get more people on it then they do actually developping stuff. Plus i suspect they dont have a dedicated team.
But thats my opinion. I dont work there. But just comparing to roll20 and fantasy ground... Yeah they take tons more time to develop.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
Do they really spend a lot of time on marketing? They do sponsorships and have Adam doing the dev stream, plus they send community moderators like Oboecrazy to cons. That's it really, nothing too zany. Like, the biggest thing was the Party Presidential Election and that was entirely Critical Role handled.
As for the dice thing being 1 year in development, you don't know that, none of us do. All we know is that it's something that's been recently announced as being 'played around with'.
The random tables is a false comparison; fantasy grounds has the framework for random tables, displaying and executing, it's just a case of data entry. On the other hand, DDB is still figuring out how they want to implement random tables because they're not a VTT service. There's no chat or other such site space to push random results to, so they'd have to implement UI formatting, pop ups for results etc
As for 'aesthetics', isn't DDB's usability one of it's bit draws? Just look at the homebrew tools; that'd development over aesthetic and it gets heavily criticised. Compare to roll20 or Fantasy Grounds, which are powerful tools but get slammed constantly for their steep learning curve.
And saying they "don't have a dedicated team" is just rudeness in the highest regard and I think very much not true.
Sure, you're voice your opinion, and it seems completely unfounded and just a little bit unfair in its disparagement. Plus comparing DDB to roll20/fantasy grounds is apples to oranges.
D&D Beyond moderator across forums, Discord, Twitch and YouTube. Always happy to help and willing to answer questions (or at least try). (he/him/his)
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
Site Rules & Guidelines - Homebrew Rules - Looking for Players and Groups Rules
As a DM, one of the reasons I did not get into VTT services like Roll20 of FG, was due to their complexity. It's not just complicated for a DM who is using those tools for the first time; it's complicated for the players as well, who have to play using those tools.
It is for that very reason that I resisted VTT and online gaming services for so long.
I was introduced to DDB by a fellow DM and although I have not been around since the very beginning; I had a look at DDB and liked its aesthetics and ease of use, and at this point, have been here for quite a while and have begun integrating DDB into my games more and more.
I genuinely think that what the DDB guys are doing is fantastic, and I am not saying that because of their Marketing either. Yes, I have bought some of the digital books, but I have only purchased the ones that I use the most, and buy little bits and pieces of out of all the rest of the books, as and when I need them. Also; where it is also true that I have a Master Tier subscription, that is because my players only have free accounts. As a result, they rely on my sharing content with them, and I also create large numbers of characters, as I use them as NPCs as well.
So it is not the marketing that has won me over; instead, it is the aesthetic, usability of the system, and friendliness of the staff and other community members.
In short, where TTV services like Roll20 and FG, might seemingly provide a more complete service, they do not provide the same level of usability, and you do not get the same sense of community from them as you do from DnDBeyond.
At least in my opinion.
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
Yet you seem to think other developpers didnt have to develop anything. If anything you are trying defend a point that has no foundation. Because yet... Fantasy ground had to develop too. Which was back in 3e era. Also they are there not just for 1 ttrpg but all of them. Imagine if they had to wait 2 years just to get a few export type ? Imagine if doing their dice would of taken 2 years in the making.
As for not knowing...
I am a programmer too... I know what i can do. I know companies want aesthetics a lot. I know companies can take time to make things happens. But that said... If you asked how many of us preffered the features instead of aesthetics... Im quite god damn sure wed all preffered the features.
I know what i know and based on a number of things... They are way behind. At some point roll20 and fantasy ground decided that features is what people are willing to pay for. I just wished beyond did the same.
As a programmer i can also relate to the fact that many are perfectionnist and its hard to stop. But thats also a pithole we expect companies not to fall in.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
and lets not forget this was marketed as a Digital Service with offline in mobile apps. the only thing I can do on a mobile app is download the books. that is all. We have asked for the mobile app to be expanded because not everyone plays where there is great internet/wifi. They said they were working on it. Still waiting....just my $.02.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Let's be honest though, mobile data plans are now so large that standard WiFi is almost absolute anyway, when you can tether your devices and get 60Mbps down and 30Mbps up, using 4G (LTE).
We are now moving into the 5G era as well, which gives even faster and more stable speeds.
So do we really need offline mode?
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
I live in a small and very techy country so I only lose connection in elevators and underground parking lots.
But, coverage in the US, for example, and other big countries isn't complete. And sometimes, even when covered, it's not great. I get it why people want offline mode.
Check out all my important links here.
May we live in Less Interesting Times
There are many places where Telcom X is fine but Telcom Y has no signal, or no one has a signal. Plus, a weak signal means long delays in opening a number of pages.
Yes, offline mode is very necessary. Even if you have play at someone's house. When you move, you may not have wi-fi set up because it takes about a week, so if you meet weekly, that's one session with no wi-fi, and my house does not have good 4G signal, at least with Verizon. And then you have when the power goes out, which is more frequent than other places just because of where I live. So if you don't have character sheets printed out as a backup, you can't play.
Published Subclasses
My humble opinion is that the features are being rolled out far too slowly. I think D&D Beyond has a great layout and usability in general. But there's simply not much that can be done with it. I want HP tracking. Initiative tracking. Combat tracking. An actual VTT.
It's not actually useful in the ways that would be truly helpful to me.
I happen to agree with this sentiment. For the amount of users, the official support from WoTC, and the stated goals of DDB, I would have expected much more progress in terms of the extensive objectives proposed by the team. I have a suspicion however that, as someone mentioned above, the team might actually not be large enough to handle these requests. Furthermore, I think that it's also quite possible that each new release from WoTC adds just enough overhead and complexity that it's all the team can do to make sure that each new book releases on time feature-complete.
My concern is that the majority of the focus is on getting new WotC material ready for release, since that is what WotC cares about. Making by definition HP tracking, Initiative tracking. Combat tracking, mapping, campaign management, VTT, etc... of less concern and that having made them less concern, they are considered, "would be nice, but we need to focus on the marketplace".
Let’s be honest - if they didn’t focus on getting all the official material out on-time, we’d be screaming bloody murder. All the other features are nice and great to have, but the game material is the core of the service.
DDB has said in multiple dev streams they're working on expanding their teams and migrating their databases to large infrastructure to cope with the demand of the service. That takes time and effort.
DDB wants money, so they're obviously rolling out features as fast as they can; the faster they roll out features, the more users they draw in, the more money they make. So complaining that they're not going fast enough for your liking is just a bit entitled, they're literally going as fast as they can.
D&D Beyond moderator across forums, Discord, Twitch and YouTube. Always happy to help and willing to answer questions (or at least try). (he/him/his)
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
Site Rules & Guidelines - Homebrew Rules - Looking for Players and Groups Rules
I'm not sure that they expected such a massive uptake of the DDB services when they launched. At least not in such a mass scale. They have been helped along in bk small part, I think, by their partnership with Wizards and sponsorship of Critical Role.
That is all good news for us end-users, but for the staff and the devs, it creates a nightmare scenario where they can not develop and release services fast enough, to keep up with growth and demand.
Like you said; however, that doesn't mean they aren't working on doing so as fast as they can, and it annoys me slightly when people compare DDB to places like FG or Roll20 as this is not either of those places.
My knee jerk reaction is to say to those people, "if you like FG or Roll20 so much, and feel DDB does not meet your needs, why are you here?" But then my calmer head prevails, and I don't say that.
It does make me sometimes wonder, though.
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
I mean, you're still saying it, just in a passive aggressive fashion.
D&D Beyond moderator across forums, Discord, Twitch and YouTube. Always happy to help and willing to answer questions (or at least try). (he/him/his)
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
Site Rules & Guidelines - Homebrew Rules - Looking for Players and Groups Rules
Well, I think it but I don't actually go ahead and say it every time I see someone saying stuff like that.
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
I'm not sure I even understand this argument. DDB is competing with a lot of other services, but unlike these services, DDB is officially partnered with WoTC and is trying to be the definitive toolset for D&D5E. That's always been the stated goal. If that's going to be the case, they've got a long way to go, and a huge list of features that need to be implemented. Frankly, there aren't any services out there that can be considered definitive--thus the appeal of the promise of DDB, and also why the lack of progress is disheartening. Furthermore, it's hardly being entitled to expect features from a service that you're paying for, and if no one ever complained about the lack of features or the pace of the releases, DDB would have no reason to think they need to expand their team.
They also need to be careful about what they do. If Wizards think that DDB is no longer representing the interests of WoTC, by making poor decisions that cast themselves or their content in an unfavourable light, they could pull the licensing agreement and their partnership with DDB.
Also, let's be honest. What would you most like to see, a whole load of glitchy services, that does not fit with the brands that DDB represents (including their own), or well tested, polished and integrated solutions that provide high-quality services which fulfil the most request features on the roadmap?
I know which I'd rather have.
I am an online author and sci-fi lover who plays table too roleplaying games in his free time. See all my character concepts at: Character Bios – Jays Blog (jaytelford.me)
My mother always says:
"think about what you do carefully or you will do things too fast and end up like the goverment. a cheese grater oozing problems"
If DDB would rush everything like others do, we would have the same problem.
Just look at the game industry.
What happened with rush launches? Èxactly ->Catastrophic releases
What followed? A massive sh!tstorm
@DnDPaladin
As a programmer you should know that the code isnt that simple, that you can implement everything that wasnt on the core code that easily.
The moment you do, some dormand bugs could awake or things that werent even a bug, become bugs.
What would happen if thanks to rushed releases DDB would be out on the weekend due to bugs?
Exactly, a massive sh!tstorm.
All that stuff is optional. Nice to have, but not essential. If it comes later but done right, I dont have a problem with it.
We are so comfortably nowaday, with everything done for us that we whine about every little thing that isnt worth whining about...
high level whine
Homebrew I share:
Demonic Houndmaster