That's the thing though, Gaius. I don't feel cheated specifically because I did not buy the Wayfinder's Guide (Wayfinder's, really? Silly me, I coulda sworn it was Wayfarer's). I was waiting for it to settle down and be something less experimental before I pulled the trigger, though I'd very nearly done so anyways a couple of times. I'm now super glad I did not because Rising is coming out with everything that was in the Wayfinder's Guide and more.
Should I really be happy I didn't buy Wayfinder's Guide? Should Wizards be pleased with that reaction?
I'm remarking on this less out of personal animosity and more out of empathy for the people who didn't manage to dodge the same bullet I did. If they ever release a Wayfinder's Guide to Dark Sun or whatever, I'll know not to buy that book because the real Dark Sun book will be out a year or so later and there's no point in me buying the crappy public beta test first.
Honestly I would probably be less upset if it weren't for artificer being intentionally hamstrung in it. How does it hurt to publish all of artificer for the folks that supported you? Its all digital its not like its costing print shops money.
Answer: It hurts because if they included all of artificer you wouldn't have a reason to buy the NEW AND IMPROVED: Eberron if you didn't intend to DM a campaign.
ALL of the character options should be available. I understand leaving campaign info out of it, as its a *new* campaign. But the purpose of it was to let players support Eberron and not get screwed in the process.
Its like they said: "Oh crap we promised artificer would be in it, how can we ****Technically**** keep our word while still screwing them out of the content?" We will release it like the basic rules version of dnd with only subclass! Except we will charge them for it!
Again, the release of another book with more content doesn't retroactively make a previous product a ripoff. They were very clear that the (at the time hypothetical) hardcover would reproduce the racial and class options in Wayfinder's Guide.
Also, on D&D Beyond, you don't have to buy either full product if all you care about is the artificer. You can just buy class options individually.
Again, the release of another book with more content doesn't retroactively make a previous product a ripoff. They were very clear that the (at the time hypothetical) hardcover would reproduce the racial and class options in Wayfinder's Guide.
Also, on D&D Beyond, you don't have to buy either full product if all you care about is the artificer. You can just buy class options individually.
Citation needed. The only statements on the subject that I've read stated that there would be enough content in each of them that it would be worthwhile to purchase both.
Well, worthwhile is a very subjective measure, and I don’t have the new book yet, so I can’t really comment on whether it’s worthwhile to own both. But I do know that if the new book didn’t contain all of the racial options from WGtE there’d be people complaining they’re being forced to buy two books to get all of the Eberron options.
Here's the thing. All sorts of people keep hopping in and telling everyone that how they should feel about this. All in some display of "brand loyalty" I guess?
The fact of the matter is, at release, WGtE was a mess, all sorts of people weren't even hip to the fact that it was all playtest content because it initially wasn't labelled as such on the DDB marketplace. And ever since then there hasn't been a 100% clear picture of what you were going to get when it all shook out. We were told Artificer would be included, that now has an asterisk on it. On top of that, everyone on DDB got access to the Artificer because they just made that part of UA in general. So if you bought in to WGtE for the Artificer stuff, way to go.
The idea that so many people can come up and say, "Hey, this feels off. I don't feel good about having spent my money on this product because things weren't 100% clear or certain promises aren't being kept.", and then other people come in and say, "Sorry bud, you're wrong to feel that way.", is more than a bit insulting.
Personally speaking, if WotC ever comes out with another "living document" or some such nonsense I will not be purchasing it due to the actions they've taken around WGtE and Rising. I increasingly feel like even if they weren't intending to go the route they have they ultimately have landed on a course of action that is damaging to those that bought in early.
We don't know everything that will be included in Rising, but we do know that all the crunchy bits; races, classes, dragonmarks, etc. will be included. That's a very good portion of what's in WGtE. WotC never promised there wouldn't be overlap in a "theoretical" (read; they were already working on Rising) future Eberron book. But they did say that it would be minimal. And that doesn't seem to be true. And they only technically have kept their word on Artificer being included.
So please, stop telling everyone what they "should" have known. Especially when there's enough of us out here that are confused or upset to indicate that maybe, just maybe, it's not because we're all idiots that can't read.
I can't say that I don't feel like Rising should be discounted for Wayfinders owners by the price of Wayfinders. If you're charging people to playtest for you, that charge should at least be able to be credited towards the final product. Adding only part of the initial Artificer *release*, I have to also consider pretty shady, based on what was advertised...
My bad, I just assumed that anything marked with "UA" was going to be archived.
Tagging the same races with different names for different books seems like it makes more work instead of just copying the updated info, since it would all be the same.
And the fact that when I check the purchase page its shows that I need to buy the Races that I have already unlocked, it makes me just a wee bit suspicious.
Edit: No wait figured it out, they did it that way so that the content wouldn't be unlocked. Unlocked content discounts the price. Its why none of the backrounds, feats, or older magic Items are on the purchase page, they would discount the price of the book. But they are in the book. That is cleaver, but shady.
They have already updated the warforged and the changelings in the WGtE. They have completely ruined both races in my opinion. The feel of both races is completely different.
For the warforged, we have lost the subraces. As it is now, I wouldn't play one if you paid me. I bought my WGtE when it came out and am used to what was in it. The changes feel like bait and switch to me. I have the feeling WotC is going to have a lot of very, very upset customers when people realize the extent of the butchery.
The only thing WGtE needed was the Artificer, not to have what we already paid for butchered six ways to Sunday.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Please. please, PLEASE . . . revert the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron back to what it was .They changes are horrible. Leave them in the new book, which I am probably going to try get my money back on.
I liek what we had in the WGtE far, far more than what just came out in the new piece of crap. I'll even give up access to the Artificer in WGtE to get what we had back.
My god, if this isn't a case of bait & switch I don't know what is. If the WGtE isn't reverted, I am very tempted to try get my mpney back on that also since it is in no way, shape, or form what I bought originally.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
So the WGtE Race Section is gone for me now, I can see it anymore. So it wasn't updated, it was either removed or archived.
However, in the E:RftLW Race Section I can access the updated Warforged, Changeling, and Kalashtar. The Shifter Subraces are still locked.
@Mergon
It doesn't look like the actual Sourcebook has changed, but as far as the Character Builder is concerned, you would have to make Homebrew stuff to make it work the way you wanted.
It will be hard to use the original source material in DDB, even if they don't change the original material in WGtE if that content is not available in the character builder.
At the moment, I am thourghly discusted with the new book and what has been done to WGtE.
This reminds me of the WotC online character builder for 4E. Every time they'd make official changes to 4E, they force it on the builder and ruin characters that you had been playing for months.
If this is the way WotC is going, and FORCING its linked businesses like DDB to go/follow, the whole industry will be going to crap. It may be time for me to go back to Pathfinder 1 (Pathfinder 2 is just Pathfinder going the way of 4E, and I won't touch it with a 10-foot cattle prod).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
This reminds me of the WotC online character builder for 4E. Every time they'd make official changes to 4E, they force it on the builder and ruin characters that you had been playing for months.
We understand this point all too well and will always do our best to ensure that any existing characters aren't updated without the knowledge of the player.
Any warforged/artificer/changeling etc that was created prior to the release of Eberron: Rising from the Last War, will continue to use the pre-release version of the class/race, unless you manually change it.
Like I said, the Homebrew section on the site will allow for you to use the character builder to make the older style characters. Its one of the nicest things about the site, they do let you use whatever you can Homebrew in there builder. A lot of people seem to be doing it.
I can't say that I don't feel like Rising should be discounted for Wayfinders owners by the price of Wayfinders. If you're charging people to playtest for you, that charge should at least be able to be credited towards the final product.
I'm just going to echo myself here. I know this probably is more WotC's fault rather than DDB; but it's incredibly bad form to not at least give us credit for the price already paid.
I can't say that I don't feel like Rising should be discounted for Wayfinders owners by the price of Wayfinders. If you're charging people to playtest for you, that charge should at least be able to be credited towards the final product.
I'm just going to echo myself here. I know this probably is more WotC's fault rather than DDB; but it's incredibly bad form to not at least give us credit for the price already paid.
I agree, the happy medium is either a discount for having WGTE or at least the standard discount for content already unlocked.
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That's the thing though, Gaius. I don't feel cheated specifically because I did not buy the Wayfinder's Guide (Wayfinder's, really? Silly me, I coulda sworn it was Wayfarer's). I was waiting for it to settle down and be something less experimental before I pulled the trigger, though I'd very nearly done so anyways a couple of times. I'm now super glad I did not because Rising is coming out with everything that was in the Wayfinder's Guide and more.
Should I really be happy I didn't buy Wayfinder's Guide? Should Wizards be pleased with that reaction?
I'm remarking on this less out of personal animosity and more out of empathy for the people who didn't manage to dodge the same bullet I did. If they ever release a Wayfinder's Guide to Dark Sun or whatever, I'll know not to buy that book because the real Dark Sun book will be out a year or so later and there's no point in me buying the crappy public beta test first.
Please do not contact or message me.
Honestly I would probably be less upset if it weren't for artificer being intentionally hamstrung in it. How does it hurt to publish all of artificer for the folks that supported you? Its all digital its not like its costing print shops money.
Answer: It hurts because if they included all of artificer you wouldn't have a reason to buy the NEW AND IMPROVED: Eberron if you didn't intend to DM a campaign.
ALL of the character options should be available. I understand leaving campaign info out of it, as its a *new* campaign. But the purpose of it was to let players support Eberron and not get screwed in the process.
Its like they said: "Oh crap we promised artificer would be in it, how can we ****Technically**** keep our word while still screwing them out of the content?" We will release it like the basic rules version of dnd with only subclass! Except we will charge them for it!
Again, the release of another book with more content doesn't retroactively make a previous product a ripoff. They were very clear that the (at the time hypothetical) hardcover would reproduce the racial and class options in Wayfinder's Guide.
Also, on D&D Beyond, you don't have to buy either full product if all you care about is the artificer. You can just buy class options individually.
Citation needed. The only statements on the subject that I've read stated that there would be enough content in each of them that it would be worthwhile to purchase both.
Well, worthwhile is a very subjective measure, and I don’t have the new book yet, so I can’t really comment on whether it’s worthwhile to own both. But I do know that if the new book didn’t contain all of the racial options from WGtE there’d be people complaining they’re being forced to buy two books to get all of the Eberron options.
Here's the thing. All sorts of people keep hopping in and telling everyone that how they should feel about this. All in some display of "brand loyalty" I guess?
The fact of the matter is, at release, WGtE was a mess, all sorts of people weren't even hip to the fact that it was all playtest content because it initially wasn't labelled as such on the DDB marketplace. And ever since then there hasn't been a 100% clear picture of what you were going to get when it all shook out. We were told Artificer would be included, that now has an asterisk on it. On top of that, everyone on DDB got access to the Artificer because they just made that part of UA in general. So if you bought in to WGtE for the Artificer stuff, way to go.
The idea that so many people can come up and say, "Hey, this feels off. I don't feel good about having spent my money on this product because things weren't 100% clear or certain promises aren't being kept.", and then other people come in and say, "Sorry bud, you're wrong to feel that way.", is more than a bit insulting.
Personally speaking, if WotC ever comes out with another "living document" or some such nonsense I will not be purchasing it due to the actions they've taken around WGtE and Rising. I increasingly feel like even if they weren't intending to go the route they have they ultimately have landed on a course of action that is damaging to those that bought in early.
We don't know everything that will be included in Rising, but we do know that all the crunchy bits; races, classes, dragonmarks, etc. will be included. That's a very good portion of what's in WGtE. WotC never promised there wouldn't be overlap in a "theoretical" (read; they were already working on Rising) future Eberron book. But they did say that it would be minimal. And that doesn't seem to be true. And they only technically have kept their word on Artificer being included.
So please, stop telling everyone what they "should" have known. Especially when there's enough of us out here that are confused or upset to indicate that maybe, just maybe, it's not because we're all idiots that can't read.
I can't say that I don't feel like Rising should be discounted for Wayfinders owners by the price of Wayfinders. If you're charging people to playtest for you, that charge should at least be able to be credited towards the final product. Adding only part of the initial Artificer *release*, I have to also consider pretty shady, based on what was advertised...
Soooo... Since WGtE is being archived, the content in it wont be updated...
Soooo... We have to buy E:RftLW to get the content we already paid for.
As of writing, all content is showing as locked. Not gonna lie, kinda annoyed.
The content of WGtE is being updated as ERftLW is released. It doesn't mean that it's being archived.
My bad, I just assumed that anything marked with "UA" was going to be archived.
Tagging the same races with different names for different books seems like it makes more work instead of just copying the updated info, since it would all be the same.
And the fact that when I check the purchase page its shows that I need to buy the Races that I have already unlocked, it makes me just a wee bit suspicious.
Edit: No wait figured it out, they did it that way so that the content wouldn't be unlocked. Unlocked content discounts the price. Its why none of the backrounds, feats, or older magic Items are on the purchase page, they would discount the price of the book. But they are in the book. That is cleaver, but shady.
They have already updated the warforged and the changelings in the WGtE. They have completely ruined both races in my opinion. The feel of both races is completely different.
For the warforged, we have lost the subraces. As it is now, I wouldn't play one if you paid me. I bought my WGtE when it came out and am used to what was in it. The changes feel like bait and switch to me. I have the feeling WotC is going to have a lot of very, very upset customers when people realize the extent of the butchery.
The only thing WGtE needed was the Artificer, not to have what we already paid for butchered six ways to Sunday.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
Please. please, PLEASE . . . revert the Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron back to what it was .They changes are horrible. Leave them in the new book, which I am probably going to try get my money back on.
I liek what we had in the WGtE far, far more than what just came out in the new piece of crap. I'll even give up access to the Artificer in WGtE to get what we had back.
My god, if this isn't a case of bait & switch I don't know what is. If the WGtE isn't reverted, I am very tempted to try get my mpney back on that also since it is in no way, shape, or form what I bought originally.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
So the WGtE Race Section is gone for me now, I can see it anymore. So it wasn't updated, it was either removed or archived.
However, in the E:RftLW Race Section I can access the updated Warforged, Changeling, and Kalashtar. The Shifter Subraces are still locked.
@Mergon
It doesn't look like the actual Sourcebook has changed, but as far as the Character Builder is concerned, you would have to make Homebrew stuff to make it work the way you wanted.
It will be hard to use the original source material in DDB, even if they don't change the original material in WGtE if that content is not available in the character builder.
At the moment, I am thourghly discusted with the new book and what has been done to WGtE.
This reminds me of the WotC online character builder for 4E. Every time they'd make official changes to 4E, they force it on the builder and ruin characters that you had been playing for months.
If this is the way WotC is going, and FORCING its linked businesses like DDB to go/follow, the whole industry will be going to crap. It may be time for me to go back to Pathfinder 1 (Pathfinder 2 is just Pathfinder going the way of 4E, and I won't touch it with a 10-foot cattle prod).
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
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D&D Beyond FoundersWe understand this point all too well and will always do our best to ensure that any existing characters aren't updated without the knowledge of the player.
Any warforged/artificer/changeling etc that was created prior to the release of Eberron: Rising from the Last War, will continue to use the pre-release version of the class/race, unless you manually change it.
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Like I said, the Homebrew section on the site will allow for you to use the character builder to make the older style characters. Its one of the nicest things about the site, they do let you use whatever you can Homebrew in there builder. A lot of people seem to be doing it.
So where did the WGtE Race Section go? Also, why do I have the option to purchase items I have already unlocked?![]()
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Are those items still unlocked for you this morning?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I'm just going to echo myself here. I know this probably is more WotC's fault rather than DDB; but it's incredibly bad form to not at least give us credit for the price already paid.
I agree, the happy medium is either a discount for having WGTE or at least the standard discount for content already unlocked.