If you read through the thread, you can still embed images. You just have to upload it to another site first.
It costs money to host information online, especially files as large as images, and I rather Beyond invest in more valuable features rather than waste money on hosting images.
It may cost money, but they are also asking us to pay for publicly available information, and offer little more than a repository for our campaigns and characters. If that functionality is missing the most basic of things...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
None of the stuff on beyond that costs money is publically available?!. You can see the stuff online sure but I don't think "I can view stuff if other people post it places" is a very valid argument. Also I like that "just a repository for our campaigns and characters" is somehow just some tiny offering in your eyes but posting images somewhere isn't!?.
In-Depth character creator that is ostensibly the most user-friendly one available which also gives the easy way to quick reference spells, abilities, items etc without needing to open up a bunch of tabs or flick through a book... No thank you I don't need any of that hard work, I'd rather you let me post images directly into the site because apparently I've never heard of any cloud storage or image hosting where I could do the exact thing I require.
If creating a character is THAT difficult for you, then I have nothing to help you.
The knowledge that you so value is purchased- just as the books are. The fact that we have to buy it a second time when the SRP and other resources are handily available is debatable, but another topic entirely.
The gripe I have, is that we PAY for the hosting of our characters and campaigns. You get charged monthly, and the site does the absolute bare minimum of that. You can champion the character generator, but there are many that do the same thing for free or for little cost, and then don't charge you a monthly fee to hold onto it. Your last statement is just a strawman that shows how weak your argument is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
Its funny that you say my argument is weak as I used a strawman when your comment starts with one lol. I clearly said for new players, based on my experience (as well as logic) its easier to say to your players "Hey here's a link to make your character" rather than "Heres a link to a character creator, and another to a link to a page about classes where you'll see the info you need, also you'll need those open when we play to reference your spells".
I realise I was being flippant at the end but I'm struggling with the crux of your issue here.
You aren't impressed with the service they provide, and according to you there's equally good, free alternatives (I would honestly be keen to hear which tools these are as I'd love an equally good tool to use instead) so why are you paying and why are you complaining about paying for it?.
Presumably you already own the books (if you're paying 'twice') so again why are you paying and complaining about it when its pretty logical that the main demographic is people who play primarily through Beyond?.
To return to the original gripe of this thread, you don't like paying when they can't even offer a image hosting (despite the fact thats basically unrelated to the tool Beyond IS currently) but then if you look at all worthwhile campaign manager tools that have image hosting (World Anvil etc) they all charge similar or often more for hosting than Beyond does for their significant image hosting.
I mean don't get me wrong, Beyond is not a perfect tool, there's still some things that need to be added/improved like the boons etc. They do however provide a tool that does what it needs to do, in a user friendly way and actually is free to use, just not when you want specific features not in the basic rules which is a WotC thing not a Beyond thing. You also have the option to buy only the bits you need, so again they really aren't 'forcing you to buy everything twice'. I mean it would be cool if everything was free, but server hosting and the dev time for making all the moving parts work correctly together aren't just free resources so paying a nominal monthly fee seems like a pretty standard business model nowadays.
If creating a character is THAT difficult for you, then I have nothing to help you.
The knowledge that you so value is purchased- just as the books are. The fact that we have to buy it a second time when the SRP and other resources are handily available is debatable, but another topic entirely.
The gripe I have, is that we PAY for the hosting of our characters and campaigns. You get charged monthly, and the site does the absolute bare minimum of that. You can champion the character generator, but there are many that do the same thing for free or for little cost, and then don't charge you a monthly fee to hold onto it. Your last statement is just a strawman that shows how weak your argument is.
When DDB was created it was originally only intended to be a digital character builder & sheet for people to use on mobile devices while sitting at the same IR table with one another. The Campaign manager was originally only added to enable content sharing. In addition, DDB started three years behind the VTTs with 5e, and more than that in general. COVID has changed things so that now online play and they are developing the DM tools side of things as a Digital DM’s Screen towards eventually creating a “Digital Play Space” intended to be like a VTT, but far more in-depth since DDB is a 5e exclusive service. However, they are now 7 years behind those VTTs in terms of development. (In programming years, that’s the equivalent of decades like dog years.)
The good news for you however is that DDB doesn’t charge anything for the use of their admittedly rudimentary campaign service. So you don’t pay anything to not attach a map to a DDB Campaign.
In addition, DDB is not owned or operated by the company that makes the game. It’s like a bookstore that only sells digital D&D content. Saying they charge for something you already own is only relevant if you want to use that content here. So you also don’t pay for the books a second time if you don’t want to, and since you don’t seem to value DDB’s digital character builder/sheet very much, you don’t need the digital content here. As to the free access to that content online elsewhere, other than the Basic Rules, SRD, and EEPC, it’s technically a violation of internationally recognized copyright laws for those sites to post that other content, sooo…. Saying it’s unfair to have to pay for it is like saying it’s unfair to have to pay for a car when you could just steal one. 🤷♂️ Or if you prefer a less controversial analogy, like complaining that Barns & Nobles would charge you full MSRP ($50) for the books when you already bought them from Amazon for less ($30).
Also, in case you are unaware, the SRD has been rolled into the Basic Rules on DDB, so that’s all free access here, as is all of the EEPC content. And they automatically update that free content if it changes. The Spells and Races that were originally published in the EEPC but later published elsewhere and changed, DDB automatically updates the free version of the content (like when Goliaths got upgraded). And DDB charges even less than Amazon ($20) for the same read-only access to the content. They only charge the same price as Amazon for the use of their proprietary interactive digital tools. Tools that you say are superfluous, unnecessary, and insufficient. So if one doesn’t want to use DDB’s Player or DM tools, DDB is actually the least expensive access to the same content anywhere other than stealing it. (They still update the content to reflect the most recent errata info at no additional charge.)
A parting note, while you may not find it challenging to create and manage your PCs without digital assistance such as what DDB provides, many folks do. I don’t personally find it difficult to follow the posted traffic laws by driving in the rightmost lane on limited access highways and only merge left to pass slower motorists before reentering that rightmost lane, but apparently the overwhelming majority of the population of the Eastern seaboard are intrinsically incapable of grasping that basic concept. They apparently also feel it challenging to safely operate their vehicles at speeds higher than 70ish mph, while I find it very easy to cruise at 110. Their accumulated ineptitude has forced all the states to post speed limit la between 15-30 miles per hour lower than what should really be necessary. That’s just as derp to me as character creation is to you, but that’s an actual safety concern, D&D is just a game. If I can accept a highway where the speed limit is 65 when it should be 80 (and the subsequently interminable commute times), can’t you find it in your heart to cut some folks some slack when it comes to needing some help keeping a lot of rules straight for a game? In the spirit of the holidays if nothing else…?
PS- They only charge me annually for my subscription and it’s way cheaper than the monthly subscription costs.
The fact that they are 7 years behind in coding doesn't mean anything... I've seen teens knock together something in a weekend and this doesn't need a VTT... but that has no bearing on a simple service. DNDB is a digital one-stop-shop for 5th ed, or plugs itself as one, but lacks some simple overlooked services. If you want free, there's loads online (without stealing as you seem to be insinuating) that do nearly a good job and don't require a subscription (I too paid for the annual subscription).
The licensing fees and double payments... that's also an often explained-away problem that tells of great ideas, poorly implemented. The fine people at DNDB sub out the books to us, but with what incentive? If we can buy a bag of Doritos and get game codes for Triple-A games without concern, why haven't they figured out a way to sub-license as an official online resource without passing on the cost and being nothing more than someone to read the books for you? It may be difficult for you, or others, but I don't see that as a practical business model in the long run.
As for the speeding analogy... what? You can do something that is critical to your safety but DND is just a game? I think you have your analogy backwards.
Look- I like the service. I bought the service. I bought in for a full year- but I'm not daft enough to say that it's faultless, and I call it as I see it. I hope you find joy in your party, and they get your (offline it's so much easier) snark, but I deserve to call out failure as much as I want in the same way that you can praise the developers to your heart's content. In the end, it's a business, and they are missing a critical, and easily fixed, step in the process.
Notes: Do not engage in personal attacks on other users
I didn’t attack you neighbor, if I had the mods would have redacted my post to remove the colorful metaphors, rude suggestions, and likely worse that I would have included. Believe me, when I go off on a body, I go all the way off. Once I even plopped the middle finger emoji into a spoiler at 1000pt font. (When my fuse burns out… lemme put it this way: Ever heard of a “subtle explosion?”) I snarked. Attacked? Not so much.
I also got my Varsity Letter on the debate team. I don’t rely on 🐂💩 JV nonsense like strawmen, I don’t need to.
This is the complete catalog of all officially published 5e content that is legally available anywhere for free:
Any website that offers any free access to any official WotC content not included in those documents is illegally hosting pirated content. I’m not “insinuating” a Goddamned thing. I’m explicitly stating that’s a ******* crime. That is a legal fact. Theft of intellectual property is no less criminal than theft of physical property. Whether It be a digital download of a pirated PDF of the PHB, or accepting possession of a boosted car, it is absolutely just as illegal.
If you doubt me, download as much of that free content you calaimnis not illegal onto a flash drive, take it to your local police station, tell them you want to turn yourself in for committing a crime and that you brought evidence of your crime and hand them that flash drive. After they pick up dust off, and reattach their chins, and then look at your flash drive contents, and then do a little research You will absolutely learn definitively which of us is correct regarding this matter. Believe dat.
So… how confident are you really that you’re right and I’m not? Hmm?
Those bags of chips can have cores to download those Triple-A games because the companies have hat make those games choose to issue what are essentially “manufacturer instant rebates” and absorb the costs for those codes. Effectively, they choose to give a limited number of copies of their own products away for free as promotional advertising, and list the “cost” of all those copies as advertising expenses when they file their corporate taxes. The reason content isn’t free like that here is because WotC has decided not to do that. That’s on WotC, not DDB. So if you want to rail against the way things work, rail against the right company, if you want to seem credible. You wouldn’t shout at a retailer like Walmart because you think there should be a manufacturer coupon for Pantene Shampoo, you would contact customer service for P&G as the product’s manufacturer. Right? By that exact same logic, it makes more sense to contact WotC Customer Services regarding what you see as that company’s failure to offer manufacturer supported rebates for digital copies of D&D products.
You misunderstand. Driving at posted highway speeds is absolutely not “critical to my safety.” I know for a fact that can safely navigate limited access highways at up to 110mph without even feeling nervous. (I had the opportunity to receive some limited training from an actual Hollywood stunt driver on Daimler’s dime (pun not intended), and impressed him with how well I handled the course without having had any previous training. I also work with some of my area’s best doctors and apparently there was a little concerned that my visual acuity & fields, reaction times, and various coordinations are all excelent but could I please dial it back a little when instructing for the students’ benefit. There are other reasons (that I won’t publicly admit to) for my I knowing I can whip at 110 without breaking a sweat, and up to 134mph (1mph below the trigger point for the governor on that car), but I’ll admit I was puckered up a bit at that speed. I absolutely can drive that fast “safely,” I just may not do it “legally.”
You are absolutely right, I do care quite a bit about this comunity. Don’t make the mistake of conflating this comunity with the company or it’s products & services. In fact, if you actually skim through my 18,500+ posts you mentioned, you will discover that I care about it to the point where I have absolutely no reservations whatsoever about telling DDB (or anyone else for that matter) when I think they’re full of 🐴💩. And I know about more of their actual 🐴💩 than most users even know exists. There’s plenty of things DDB deserves to be called out on and on, I could fill threads. You wanna hold the company accountable for their failings? Great. But at least hold them responsible for the 💩 they are actually deserve.
No, I don’t personally find creating and managing characters without digital assistance difficult. But I don’t pay DDB to do stuff for me that I find difficult. I pay them to make things more convenient for me. I used to keep two backpacks full of sourcebooks and dice and paper and pencils in my car for ready access wherever I drove.
Now I have:
The Legendary Bundle.
The character sheets for every PC in any campaigns I DM.
Every single character sheet for all of my PCs in other DMs’ campaigns..
And everything else DDB provides.
And that’s all in a device that weighs under a pound and fits in my pocket, and none of my players or DM’s have had any of their access to all of that restricted because it’s not in my trunk anymore.
I’m worth the $54.99+T Christmas present I give myself each year.
The fact that they are 7 years behind in coding doesn't mean anything... I've seen teens knock together something in a weekend and this doesn't need a VTT... but that has no bearing on a simple service. DNDB is a digital one-stop-shop for 5th ed, or plugs itself as one, but lacks some simple overlooked services.
Image hosting is not simple, and Beyond certainly has NOT marketed itself as a digital-one-stop-shop for 5e. The primary purpose of Beyond is to help supplement real life play with digital tools. I fail to see how image hosting is anywhere remotely relevant to that purpose.
People want better homebrew tools? I can get behind that, although its current form is fine enough for me.
People want dice? Ugh, fine, I will bite, they do look kind of cool.
People want encounter builder and combat tracker? I have not found them super useful, but at least I can see some GMs using them at a table.
Freaking image hosting though? I do not want Beyond to touch it even with a stick a thousand miles away. Getting rid of UA that many people want just so they can devote those resources for image hosting would piss a ton of people off, especially me. If Beyond wants to dabble in image hosting, I want them to sell that as a separate service, cause I do not want to buy it nor do I want it to be part of the subscription service as it will probably raise subscription prices.
If you want free, there's loads online (without stealing as you seem to be insinuating) that do nearly a good job and don't require a subscription (I too paid for the annual subscription).
Name one that is legal. If there is one, I would gladly jump ship.
The licensing fees and double payments... that's also an often explained-away problem that tells of great ideas, poorly implemented. The fine people at DNDB sub out the books to us, but with what incentive? If we can buy a bag of Doritos and get game codes for Triple-A games without concern, why haven't they figured out a way to sub-license as an official online resource without passing on the cost and being nothing more than someone to read the books for you? It may be difficult for you, or others, but I don't see that as a practical business model in the long run.
Maybe you have not been paying attention, but not only is it a practical business model to sell different versions of a product as separate distinct products without bundling them for quite a long time now, it is also very successful. Buying a product and getting a version of that product that is available in another medium for free is rare and not the norm. If you buy a book from Walmart and go to Amazon and complain about having to buy that book again on Kindle, people will look at you funny. Not only does Disney make a ton of money from MCU movie tickets, they can sell them again to customers as a service via Disney+, and they can even sell it again the third freaking time as a physical disc for those die hard fans.
In the end, it's a business, and they are missing a critical, and easily fixed, step in the process.
If you know so much about business, please enlighten me on how this can be easily fixed. I assure you image hosting (or any kind of hosting for that matter) is not easy and certainly not cheap, or else everyone would be doing it instead of a handful of massive technology companies.
Okay the topic of this thread has gone off a little, the fundamental answer to 'Why D&D Beyond doesn't provide image hosting for maps etc' is its not a fundamental part of the service they are providing, they provide resources for official content and predominantly facilities for players to use, they aren't a full VTT (yet based on supposed dev plans) and they aren't a comprehensive campaign manager for a DM. Therefore things such as that aren't 'missing' they are just not what is being provided, when/if they move to a full VTT then yeah totally a missing feature but currently when all they market themselves as is a 'companion' then its not a missing feature. I actually don't want them to move to a full VTT because it will logically make things more expensive and I already use Foundry for VTT and Beyond is more for my players so don't need them to be anything else.
To answer the questions about validity of the business plan, its been working well for them so far and generally the only people who have a gripe are the people who own the actual books who believe they are owed something. For someone like me its the other way round, I have no use for the books, I DM mostly remotely with my friends and even when in person I use my laptop for digital resources and my friends use Beyond on their phones/tablets. I get how its frustrating to feel like you're 'buying the same thing twice' but as much as the comparisons often seem superfluous they are accurate (You don't get the digital version of something automatically when you own the physical) and as Sposta said in response to the Doritos analogy it would be all on WotC, they'd have to agree to the new licensing, do the significant work to backdate everyone who owns the books (basically impossible) and crucially they'd need to pay Beyond for the money they'd be losing on giving away their service for free/at a discount.
Without repeating Spostas exhaustive paragraph providing of the list official free content, I return to my original question of could you provide the names/links to these services? Services that are subscription free and provide the same quality (or better) services than D&D Beyond, you've mentioned them a lot but not actually said what they are?. That isn't me being critical or trying to egg you on, I legitimately would like to check them out, if they are as good as Beyond and free and have all the official content then I'd love to give them a try because as you say Beyond isn't perfect, so a free alternative that is equal or superior would be great. To my knowledge they don't exist because I've not encountered a properly put together character builder/encyclopedia of official content thats all wrapped up in a user-friendly way that all works together, but I'm happy to discover one I've missed and would move to that if I'm impressed.
I think the reason Sposta is providing such substantial responses and seeming to defend the product so vehemently is because your biggest gripes appear to be more with either the licensing practices which as noted aren't really in Beyond's control so is a complaint for the WotC forums or lacking of features that aren't currently provided by the service so its not a 'missing feature' its just wanting them to do more than they do, which is fair but is a feature request not a failure to provide a fundamental. If your issues were with how epic boons haven't been implemented for characters yet, or how the currency tracker is fiddlier than it should be etc then fair they are parts of the service currently provided that are lacking.
Oh please... casually dismissing the VAST amount of complaints that there are missing features (still looking at the "beta" of encounters) as just being the whining of people who are entitled is disingenuous at best, and highly arrogant.
As for posting competitors, I'm pretty sure that's going to be some sort of ban-worthy, or at least highly discouraged here, action. They are easily found when you search for 5th Ed. character generators. There are free ones, ones that have more support, and ones that are incredibly fast- but they all have their own issues. Again, I've lumped my money here because I thought it the best choice- but I'm not blind, and I certainly think there are many broken or missing features here as well.
If you genuinely feel that missing features aren't needed, and therefore not "lacking," fine. That's your opinion. There are many of us however, that feel otherwise.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
Image hosting, at the expensive end of things, ranges from 3 to 4 cents a Gig... not sure where the outrage over being able to post a few pictures on your campaign (even if limited) is such a rallying point. https://www.keycdn.com/pricing
Again, I won't be posting to competitors here, as they are EASILY found, and I'm not going to be baited into getting flagged.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
Oh please... casually dismissing the VAST amount of complaints that there are missing features (still looking at the "beta" of encounters) as just being the whining of people who are entitled is disingenuous at best, and highly arrogant.
As for posting competitors, I'm pretty sure that's going to be some sort of ban-worthy, or at least highly discouraged here, action. They are easily found when you search for 5th Ed. character generators. There are free ones, ones that have more support, and ones that are incredibly fast- but they all have their own issues. Again, I've lumped my money here because I thought it the best choice- but I'm not blind, and I certainly think there are many broken or missing features here as well.
If you genuinely feel that missing features aren't needed, and therefore not "lacking," fine. That's your opinion. There are many of us however, that feel otherwise.
Dude you keep acting like people are attacking you; weirdly criticising a strawman when you use them, making out like I'm too dumb to create my own character when it was an example, and assuming I'm trying to bait you into getting banned because apparently asking you to actually back up your points is so problematic, and you call us the highly arrogant ones?!, I'm over here trying to actually meet you half way after Sposta and Gamma wrote an extensive response that you could have taken as going off at you even though as with most of this thread you've curiously ignored all their points that cogently answered all of your *****ing.
Go use one of those unnameable other character creators that apparently exist, they're apparently free, have more support and are incredibly fast, they sound perfect, makes you wonder why you still thought Beyond was the 'best choice' despite it being run by lazy devs who only want to rip you off, 'force' you to buy things twice, pay a subscription, not provide image hosting and full of missing and broken features.
Image hosting, at the expensive end of things, ranges from 3 to 4 cents a Gig... not sure where the outrage over being able to post a few pictures on your campaign (even if limited) is such a rallying point. https://www.keycdn.com/pricing
Again, I won't be posting to competitors here, as they are EASILY found, and I'm not going to be baited into getting flagged.
As far as I am aware, only the largest tech companies offer hosting and do it at a reasonable price. Not only can they rely on economy of scale from having a much more massive user base, they also have numerous business clients to further offset the cost. Beyond itself is hosting a shit ton of data from millions of homebrew, and that is not cheap, and it is financially maintained by user subscription fees.
While I do not expect everyone to read all the forum rules, I do expect people to at least do a little basic research and cite their sources on where in the rules say that you cannot mention competitors. I think you are just trolling at this point because you would have also seen a bunch of people mentioning, discussing,, and linking to Roll20Fantasy Grounds, and a few others, and no one gets banned for that. What people do get banned for is discussing and linking to illegal pirated intellectual property, and since you do not feel confident about listing your free "legal" ones, I think you are refusing to admit that you are referring to illegal pirated resources.
Hi! Does dndbeyond allow me to upload various documents to my campaign that my players can view (maps, calendars, ancient texts, etc.)
Not "upload" per se. DDB does not host images or documents for users. But you can link and embed to your heart's content.
Thank you! I assume I link and embed in the public DM notes?
Or campaign description, however you want to do that.
Thanks a bunch :))
wow, thats crappy. Should be able to upload maps
If you read through the thread, you can still embed images. You just have to upload it to another site first.
It costs money to host information online, especially files as large as images, and I rather Beyond invest in more valuable features rather than waste money on hosting images.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
It may cost money, but they are also asking us to pay for publicly available information, and offer little more than a repository for our campaigns and characters. If that functionality is missing the most basic of things...
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
None of the stuff on beyond that costs money is publically available?!. You can see the stuff online sure but I don't think "I can view stuff if other people post it places" is a very valid argument. Also I like that "just a repository for our campaigns and characters" is somehow just some tiny offering in your eyes but posting images somewhere isn't!?.
In-Depth character creator that is ostensibly the most user-friendly one available which also gives the easy way to quick reference spells, abilities, items etc without needing to open up a bunch of tabs or flick through a book... No thank you I don't need any of that hard work, I'd rather you let me post images directly into the site because apparently I've never heard of any cloud storage or image hosting where I could do the exact thing I require.
If creating a character is THAT difficult for you, then I have nothing to help you.
The knowledge that you so value is purchased- just as the books are. The fact that we have to buy it a second time when the SRP and other resources are handily available is debatable, but another topic entirely.
The gripe I have, is that we PAY for the hosting of our characters and campaigns. You get charged monthly, and the site does the absolute bare minimum of that. You can champion the character generator, but there are many that do the same thing for free or for little cost, and then don't charge you a monthly fee to hold onto it. Your last statement is just a strawman that shows how weak your argument is.
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
Its funny that you say my argument is weak as I used a strawman when your comment starts with one lol. I clearly said for new players, based on my experience (as well as logic) its easier to say to your players "Hey here's a link to make your character" rather than "Heres a link to a character creator, and another to a link to a page about classes where you'll see the info you need, also you'll need those open when we play to reference your spells".
I realise I was being flippant at the end but I'm struggling with the crux of your issue here.
You aren't impressed with the service they provide, and according to you there's equally good, free alternatives (I would honestly be keen to hear which tools these are as I'd love an equally good tool to use instead) so why are you paying and why are you complaining about paying for it?.
Presumably you already own the books (if you're paying 'twice') so again why are you paying and complaining about it when its pretty logical that the main demographic is people who play primarily through Beyond?.
To return to the original gripe of this thread, you don't like paying when they can't even offer a image hosting (despite the fact thats basically unrelated to the tool Beyond IS currently) but then if you look at all worthwhile campaign manager tools that have image hosting (World Anvil etc) they all charge similar or often more for hosting than Beyond does for their significant image hosting.
I mean don't get me wrong, Beyond is not a perfect tool, there's still some things that need to be added/improved like the boons etc. They do however provide a tool that does what it needs to do, in a user friendly way and actually is free to use, just not when you want specific features not in the basic rules which is a WotC thing not a Beyond thing. You also have the option to buy only the bits you need, so again they really aren't 'forcing you to buy everything twice'. I mean it would be cool if everything was free, but server hosting and the dev time for making all the moving parts work correctly together aren't just free resources so paying a nominal monthly fee seems like a pretty standard business model nowadays.
EDITED - For Grammar
When DDB was created it was originally only intended to be a digital character builder & sheet for people to use on mobile devices while sitting at the same IR table with one another. The Campaign manager was originally only added to enable content sharing. In addition, DDB started three years behind the VTTs with 5e, and more than that in general. COVID has changed things so that now online play and they are developing the DM tools side of things as a Digital DM’s Screen towards eventually creating a “Digital Play Space” intended to be like a VTT, but far more in-depth since DDB is a 5e exclusive service. However, they are now 7 years behind those VTTs in terms of development. (In programming years, that’s the equivalent of decades like dog years.)
The good news for you however is that DDB doesn’t charge anything for the use of their admittedly rudimentary campaign service. So you don’t pay anything to not attach a map to a DDB Campaign.
In addition, DDB is not owned or operated by the company that makes the game. It’s like a bookstore that only sells digital D&D content. Saying they charge for something you already own is only relevant if you want to use that content here. So you also don’t pay for the books a second time if you don’t want to, and since you don’t seem to value DDB’s digital character builder/sheet very much, you don’t need the digital content here. As to the free access to that content online elsewhere, other than the Basic Rules, SRD, and EEPC, it’s technically a violation of internationally recognized copyright laws for those sites to post that other content, sooo…. Saying it’s unfair to have to pay for it is like saying it’s unfair to have to pay for a car when you could just steal one. 🤷♂️ Or if you prefer a less controversial analogy, like complaining that Barns & Nobles would charge you full MSRP ($50) for the books when you already bought them from Amazon for less ($30).
Also, in case you are unaware, the SRD has been rolled into the Basic Rules on DDB, so that’s all free access here, as is all of the EEPC content. And they automatically update that free content if it changes. The Spells and Races that were originally published in the EEPC but later published elsewhere and changed, DDB automatically updates the free version of the content (like when Goliaths got upgraded). And DDB charges even less than Amazon ($20) for the same read-only access to the content. They only charge the same price as Amazon for the use of their proprietary interactive digital tools. Tools that you say are superfluous, unnecessary, and insufficient. So if one doesn’t want to use DDB’s Player or DM tools, DDB is actually the least expensive access to the same content anywhere other than stealing it. (They still update the content to reflect the most recent errata info at no additional charge.)
A parting note, while you may not find it challenging to create and manage your PCs without digital assistance such as what DDB provides, many folks do. I don’t personally find it difficult to follow the posted traffic laws by driving in the rightmost lane on limited access highways and only merge left to pass slower motorists before reentering that rightmost lane, but apparently the overwhelming majority of the population of the Eastern seaboard are intrinsically incapable of grasping that basic concept. They apparently also feel it challenging to safely operate their vehicles at speeds higher than 70ish mph, while I find it very easy to cruise at 110. Their accumulated ineptitude has forced all the states to post speed limit la between 15-30 miles per hour lower than what should really be necessary. That’s just as derp to me as character creation is to you, but that’s an actual safety concern, D&D is just a game. If I can accept a highway where the speed limit is 65 when it should be 80 (and the subsequently interminable commute times), can’t you find it in your heart to cut some folks some slack when it comes to needing some help keeping a lot of rules straight for a game? In the spirit of the holidays if nothing else…?
PS- They only charge me annually for my subscription and it’s way cheaper than the monthly subscription costs.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
[REDACTED]
The fact that they are 7 years behind in coding doesn't mean anything... I've seen teens knock together something in a weekend and this doesn't need a VTT... but that has no bearing on a simple service. DNDB is a digital one-stop-shop for 5th ed, or plugs itself as one, but lacks some simple overlooked services. If you want free, there's loads online (without stealing as you seem to be insinuating) that do nearly a good job and don't require a subscription (I too paid for the annual subscription).
The licensing fees and double payments... that's also an often explained-away problem that tells of great ideas, poorly implemented. The fine people at DNDB sub out the books to us, but with what incentive? If we can buy a bag of Doritos and get game codes for Triple-A games without concern, why haven't they figured out a way to sub-license as an official online resource without passing on the cost and being nothing more than someone to read the books for you? It may be difficult for you, or others, but I don't see that as a practical business model in the long run.
As for the speeding analogy... what? You can do something that is critical to your safety but DND is just a game? I think you have your analogy backwards.
Look- I like the service. I bought the service. I bought in for a full year- but I'm not daft enough to say that it's faultless, and I call it as I see it. I hope you find joy in your party, and they get your (offline it's so much easier) snark, but I deserve to call out failure as much as I want in the same way that you can praise the developers to your heart's content. In the end, it's a business, and they are missing a critical, and easily fixed, step in the process.
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
I didn’t attack you neighbor, if I had the mods would have redacted my post to remove the colorful metaphors, rude suggestions, and likely worse that I would have included. Believe me, when I go off on a body, I go all the way off. Once I even plopped the middle finger emoji into a spoiler at 1000pt font. (When my fuse burns out… lemme put it this way: Ever heard of a “subtle explosion?”) I snarked. Attacked? Not so much.
I also got my Varsity Letter on the debate team. I don’t rely on 🐂💩 JV nonsense like strawmen, I don’t need to.
This is the complete catalog of all officially published 5e content that is legally available anywhere for free:
*Those two were combined (with express permission from WotC) into a DDB exclusive version of the “Basic Rules”
• (https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules)
Any website that offers any free access to any official WotC content not included in those documents is illegally hosting pirated content. I’m not “insinuating” a Goddamned thing. I’m explicitly stating that’s a ******* crime. That is a legal fact. Theft of intellectual property is no less criminal than theft of physical property. Whether It be a digital download of a pirated PDF of the PHB, or accepting possession of a boosted car, it is absolutely just as illegal.
If you doubt me, download as much of that free content you calaimnis not illegal onto a flash drive, take it to your local police station, tell them you want to turn yourself in for committing a crime and that you brought evidence of your crime and hand them that flash drive. After they pick up dust off, and reattach their chins, and then look at your flash drive contents, and then do a little research You will absolutely learn definitively which of us is correct regarding this matter. Believe dat.
So… how confident are you really that you’re right and I’m not? Hmm?
Those bags of chips can have cores to download those Triple-A games because the companies have hat make those games choose to issue what are essentially “manufacturer instant rebates” and absorb the costs for those codes. Effectively, they choose to give a limited number of copies of their own products away for free as promotional advertising, and list the “cost” of all those copies as advertising expenses when they file their corporate taxes. The reason content isn’t free like that here is because WotC has decided not to do that. That’s on WotC, not DDB. So if you want to rail against the way things work, rail against the right company, if you want to seem credible. You wouldn’t shout at a retailer like Walmart because you think there should be a manufacturer coupon for Pantene Shampoo, you would contact customer service for P&G as the product’s manufacturer. Right? By that exact same logic, it makes more sense to contact WotC Customer Services regarding what you see as that company’s failure to offer manufacturer supported rebates for digital copies of D&D products.
You misunderstand. Driving at posted highway speeds is absolutely not “critical to my safety.” I know for a fact that can safely navigate limited access highways at up to 110mph without even feeling nervous. (I had the opportunity to receive some limited training from an actual Hollywood stunt driver on Daimler’s dime (pun not intended), and impressed him with how well I handled the course without having had any previous training. I also work with some of my area’s best doctors and apparently there was a little concerned that my visual acuity & fields, reaction times, and various coordinations are all excelent but could I please dial it back a little when instructing for the students’ benefit. There are other reasons (that I won’t publicly admit to) for my I knowing I can whip at 110 without breaking a sweat, and up to 134mph (1mph below the trigger point for the governor on that car), but I’ll admit I was puckered up a bit at that speed. I absolutely can drive that fast “safely,” I just may not do it “legally.”
You are absolutely right, I do care quite a bit about this comunity. Don’t make the mistake of conflating this comunity with the company or it’s products & services. In fact, if you actually skim through my 18,500+ posts you mentioned, you will discover that I care about it to the point where I have absolutely no reservations whatsoever about telling DDB (or anyone else for that matter) when I think they’re full of 🐴💩. And I know about more of their actual 🐴💩 than most users even know exists. There’s plenty of things DDB deserves to be called out on and on, I could fill threads. You wanna hold the company accountable for their failings? Great. But at least hold them responsible for the 💩 they are actually deserve.
No, I don’t personally find creating and managing characters without digital assistance difficult. But I don’t pay DDB to do stuff for me that I find difficult. I pay them to make things more convenient for me. I used to keep two backpacks full of sourcebooks and dice and paper and pencils in my car for ready access wherever I drove.
Now I have:
And that’s all in a device that weighs under a pound and fits in my pocket, and none of my players or DM’s have had any of their access to all of that restricted because it’s not in my trunk anymore.
I’m worth the $54.99+T Christmas present I give myself each year.
Toldja I didn’ need any’a dat JV 🐂💩.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Image hosting is not simple, and Beyond certainly has NOT marketed itself as a digital-one-stop-shop for 5e. The primary purpose of Beyond is to help supplement real life play with digital tools. I fail to see how image hosting is anywhere remotely relevant to that purpose.
People want better homebrew tools? I can get behind that, although its current form is fine enough for me.
People want dice? Ugh, fine, I will bite, they do look kind of cool.
People want encounter builder and combat tracker? I have not found them super useful, but at least I can see some GMs using them at a table.
Freaking image hosting though? I do not want Beyond to touch it even with a stick a thousand miles away. Getting rid of UA that many people want just so they can devote those resources for image hosting would piss a ton of people off, especially me. If Beyond wants to dabble in image hosting, I want them to sell that as a separate service, cause I do not want to buy it nor do I want it to be part of the subscription service as it will probably raise subscription prices.
Name one that is legal. If there is one, I would gladly jump ship.
Maybe you have not been paying attention, but not only is it a practical business model to sell different versions of a product as separate distinct products without bundling them for quite a long time now, it is also very successful. Buying a product and getting a version of that product that is available in another medium for free is rare and not the norm. If you buy a book from Walmart and go to Amazon and complain about having to buy that book again on Kindle, people will look at you funny. Not only does Disney make a ton of money from MCU movie tickets, they can sell them again to customers as a service via Disney+, and they can even sell it again the third freaking time as a physical disc for those die hard fans.
If you know so much about business, please enlighten me on how this can be easily fixed. I assure you image hosting (or any kind of hosting for that matter) is not easy and certainly not cheap, or else everyone would be doing it instead of a handful of massive technology companies.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >
Okay the topic of this thread has gone off a little, the fundamental answer to 'Why D&D Beyond doesn't provide image hosting for maps etc' is its not a fundamental part of the service they are providing, they provide resources for official content and predominantly facilities for players to use, they aren't a full VTT (yet based on supposed dev plans) and they aren't a comprehensive campaign manager for a DM. Therefore things such as that aren't 'missing' they are just not what is being provided, when/if they move to a full VTT then yeah totally a missing feature but currently when all they market themselves as is a 'companion' then its not a missing feature. I actually don't want them to move to a full VTT because it will logically make things more expensive and I already use Foundry for VTT and Beyond is more for my players so don't need them to be anything else.
To answer the questions about validity of the business plan, its been working well for them so far and generally the only people who have a gripe are the people who own the actual books who believe they are owed something. For someone like me its the other way round, I have no use for the books, I DM mostly remotely with my friends and even when in person I use my laptop for digital resources and my friends use Beyond on their phones/tablets. I get how its frustrating to feel like you're 'buying the same thing twice' but as much as the comparisons often seem superfluous they are accurate (You don't get the digital version of something automatically when you own the physical) and as Sposta said in response to the Doritos analogy it would be all on WotC, they'd have to agree to the new licensing, do the significant work to backdate everyone who owns the books (basically impossible) and crucially they'd need to pay Beyond for the money they'd be losing on giving away their service for free/at a discount.
Without repeating Spostas exhaustive paragraph providing of the list official free content, I return to my original question of could you provide the names/links to these services? Services that are subscription free and provide the same quality (or better) services than D&D Beyond, you've mentioned them a lot but not actually said what they are?. That isn't me being critical or trying to egg you on, I legitimately would like to check them out, if they are as good as Beyond and free and have all the official content then I'd love to give them a try because as you say Beyond isn't perfect, so a free alternative that is equal or superior would be great. To my knowledge they don't exist because I've not encountered a properly put together character builder/encyclopedia of official content thats all wrapped up in a user-friendly way that all works together, but I'm happy to discover one I've missed and would move to that if I'm impressed.
I think the reason Sposta is providing such substantial responses and seeming to defend the product so vehemently is because your biggest gripes appear to be more with either the licensing practices which as noted aren't really in Beyond's control so is a complaint for the WotC forums or lacking of features that aren't currently provided by the service so its not a 'missing feature' its just wanting them to do more than they do, which is fair but is a feature request not a failure to provide a fundamental. If your issues were with how epic boons haven't been implemented for characters yet, or how the currency tracker is fiddlier than it should be etc then fair they are parts of the service currently provided that are lacking.
Oh please... casually dismissing the VAST amount of complaints that there are missing features (still looking at the "beta" of encounters) as just being the whining of people who are entitled is disingenuous at best, and highly arrogant.
As for posting competitors, I'm pretty sure that's going to be some sort of ban-worthy, or at least highly discouraged here, action. They are easily found when you search for 5th Ed. character generators. There are free ones, ones that have more support, and ones that are incredibly fast- but they all have their own issues. Again, I've lumped my money here because I thought it the best choice- but I'm not blind, and I certainly think there are many broken or missing features here as well.
If you genuinely feel that missing features aren't needed, and therefore not "lacking," fine. That's your opinion. There are many of us however, that feel otherwise.
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
Image hosting, at the expensive end of things, ranges from 3 to 4 cents a Gig... not sure where the outrage over being able to post a few pictures on your campaign (even if limited) is such a rallying point. https://www.keycdn.com/pricing
Again, I won't be posting to competitors here, as they are EASILY found, and I'm not going to be baited into getting flagged.
-The old curmudgeon feeling of a DM mixed with the wanderlust and inspiration of a new player wrapped into one meta-gamed homebrew burrito.
Dude you keep acting like people are attacking you; weirdly criticising a strawman when you use them, making out like I'm too dumb to create my own character when it was an example, and assuming I'm trying to bait you into getting banned because apparently asking you to actually back up your points is so problematic, and you call us the highly arrogant ones?!, I'm over here trying to actually meet you half way after Sposta and Gamma wrote an extensive response that you could have taken as going off at you even though as with most of this thread you've curiously ignored all their points that cogently answered all of your *****ing.
Go use one of those unnameable other character creators that apparently exist, they're apparently free, have more support and are incredibly fast, they sound perfect, makes you wonder why you still thought Beyond was the 'best choice' despite it being run by lazy devs who only want to rip you off, 'force' you to buy things twice, pay a subscription, not provide image hosting and full of missing and broken features.
As far as I am aware, only the largest tech companies offer hosting and do it at a reasonable price. Not only can they rely on economy of scale from having a much more massive user base, they also have numerous business clients to further offset the cost. Beyond itself is hosting a shit ton of data from millions of homebrew, and that is not cheap, and it is financially maintained by user subscription fees.
While I do not expect everyone to read all the forum rules, I do expect people to at least do a little basic research and cite their sources on where in the rules say that you cannot mention competitors. I think you are just trolling at this point because you would have also seen a bunch of people mentioning, discussing,, and linking to Roll20 Fantasy Grounds, and a few others, and no one gets banned for that. What people do get banned for is discussing and linking to illegal pirated intellectual property, and since you do not feel confident about listing your free "legal" ones, I think you are refusing to admit that you are referring to illegal pirated resources.
Check Licenses and Resync Entitlements: < https://www.dndbeyond.com/account/licenses >
Running the Game by Matt Colville; Introduction: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-YZvLUXcR8 >
D&D with High School Students by Bill Allen; Season 1 Episode 1: < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NJTUDokyk&t >