For the sake of clarity, I want to start by letting you know that I am an avid dndbeyond user... and I have had an active DM subscription for almost 2 years, and I have previously purchased a legendary bundle, and I was in the process of buying new content from dndbeyond (which I still purchased despite the issue listed below)... I love using dndbeyond, I'm going to keep using dndbeyond, I'm just left feeling really disappointed and let down in dndbeyond over an inconsequential amount of money.
I chose to purchased a legendary bundle in may of 2018, not just because of the plethora of content it included, but also because it also included the following caveat to protect my future purchases: "Purchasing the Legendary Bundle also secures a 15% discount off standard pricing for all future official digital Dungeons & Dragons sourcebook and adventure purchases. You will automatically receive this discount for each new release."
My issue relates to the fact that now, after purchasing the legendary bundle, when I go to purchase the Essentials Kit (which is sold as a single product by WOTC, and the four adventures within it are not for separate sale), I am being told by @DnDBeyond on Twitter, that the discount which has been SECURED by my purchase of the legendary bundle does not apply to the purchase of the Essentials Kit boxed set on dndbeyond, because dndbeyond has split the single product into it's component adventures, and then created a bundle from those components... then they say that the discount from the legendary bundle doesn't apply to new bundle purchases, even if that bundle is made exclusively of adventures (like the Essentials Kit is).
My issue relates to the fact that there are no exclusions to the discount formally listed anywhere, they didn't tell me about it not working with bundle purchases when I purchased the Legendary Bundle (and they couldn't have, as there were no other bundles at that time), and it still doesn't list any limitations or exclusions in the description of that bundle if a new person was to purchase it.
At this point I've sunk well over $1000AUD into digital content and subscriptions on a website, and dndbeyond arguing over $3 off the Essentials Kit because they chose to repackage it seems like a cheap and tacky trick that lowers the caliber and standing of the company.
Quite frankly dndbeyond, I thought this sort of shenanigans was below you... given that this only applies to people who have already spent a lot of money with you, please stop being so cheap and nasty, so that I don't have a bad taste in my mouth every time I load up the website.
The updated description of the legendary bundle (since there was nothing else in the marketplace besides sourcebooks and adventures when it first came out) now specifies it is a 15% discount on all sourcebooks and adventure books that come out after purchase.
Notably, the physical essentials kit only comes with dragon of ice spire peak, the other 3 adventures are digital exclusive (the physical kit does have a code that redeems for all 4 adventures). The 15% discount applies to all 4 adventures but not the bundled kit option. The kit bundle is an unusual situation.
So, we can agree that it's a change they have made after the fact, it only effects new bundles (so just the essential kit?), and that it only applies to people who have purchased a legendary bundle... because if we just wait for the next coupon code, that coupon code would apply to that purchase.
Sure, they've made a business decision to prevent the people who invested so much with them from getting a 15% discount that they promised them, but they are happy to hand out a 25% discount to anyone with a coupon code... But it just feels so bad to watch them go to so much effort to try and apply it to people retrospectively over a mater of $3.... and given that it only applies to like one thing, it seems like a really poor decision from a marketing standpoint to upset their best customers over such a small thing... it's just poor form.
I don't know what to tell you. The discount applies to books, not bundles. The description didn't specify this back when there was nothing on the marketplace except books, but the description was updated when the variety of content was. The discount applies to everything that gets added to the bundle after the fact, this does not include other bundles, just books.
And the essential kit is 15% less than the sum of the books, same as the discount. You are not being charged more despite your previous bundle purchase, everyone else is being charged less regardless of bundle purchase.
I can see why this may seem confusing, or possibly even deceptive, so please allow me to explain a bit further.
At the point where you purchased your Legendary Bundle, the description was correct - D&D Beyond only contained either Sourcebooks or Adventures, all of which were included in the Legendary Bundle. At that time, it was considered that all future products would neatly fall into either Sourcebook, or Adventure.
At a later date, the opportunity arose to start including other content on D&D Beyond, such as the Tactical Map pack and content from box sets, like the Essentials Kit. It also became clear, for a number of reasons, that these separate products shouldn't be included in the Legendary Bundle (Adam has discussed the thinking behind this on the dev update stream).
At that time, the description of the new Legendary Bundle was updated, to better explain the situation.
There is a thread here, where Adam (the General Manager of D&D Beyond) has answered questions on this - please take a look, as it addresses your concerns better than I can.
This would be twice now where the Legendary Bundle discount application has changed to exclude certain products despite the description of the discount, under which the discount was gained and therefore constituting a contract, leading very obviously and clearly to the belief that it would apply to those products before the fact.
The only reason I can't lodge a legal complaint is because apparently not being American makes me ineligible, and my own government body won't bother to wade in on a digital platform that is, comparatively speaking, small bikkies for them. Otherwise I would've pursued legal action over the exclusion of the Tactical Maps from the discount.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
The Legendary Bundle description has only changed once, to be updated with further information - the discussion around this is in the thread I linked above.
This thread is regarding the same change in description as that previous thread.
The thread you linked is clearly an argument about different kinds of digital content (specifically map packs vs adventures and source books), and to avoid having to apply the discount to those new product lines, they said that there would be future bundles of map packs that would allow ALL buyers to get a 15% discount (and I assure you, people that have effectively paid for a loyalty scheme, don't want you to give that deal to other people that haven't paid for it... you can see that clearly in the thread you linked).
Clearly, we are not talking about the same thing here, as the content in question here are all adventures... and you're agreeing that, adventure and sourcebook content should get a 15% discount... I purchased a product that SECURED my ability to get a set discount on the agreed content, and nothing in the terms of sale excluded any content based on whether or not that content was bundled or otherwise.
So what's stopping dndbeyond from just changing their product types from 'source book' to 'rules book', and 'adventure' to 'escapade' after the fact, which means they wouldn't need to apply the discount as it now only applies to source books and adventures?
My final concern here is that dndbeyond are trying to retrospectively change what I have agreed to in the terms of sale (which are locked at the time of sale, because it's the 'terms of sale' and not an ongoing service agreement).... So instead of just saying they changed the current Terms of Sale like many of the moderators did in the thread you linked, I invite you to quote the paragraph in the Terms of Sale that applies to the purchase I made from dndbeyond that allows them to stop providing me a discount on future sales that I bought from them on 29/05/2018.
In summary, we both agree that the content of the Essentials Kit is 100% adventures, but instead of labeling it as an adventure (like Tales of the Yawning Portal, or Ghost of Saltmarsh), they gave it a new product type of bundle, then retrospectively changed the product description of the legendary bundle after the fact in an to attempt to say that bundled adventures are not included... but neither the current description, nor the terms of service say that grouping adventures in a bundle stops them being adventures... and yet they spend hours arguing with people on the internet about it, instead of just honouring their initial sale in good faith.
But the adventures within the essentials kit are available for individual sale and are discounted 15% if you have the legendary bundle. They have kept their promise.
Bundles are a different type of product (the same type as the legendary bundle) and not part of the legendary bundle ever since the 1 time they changed the description of the LB to account for future non-book content.
1. If you sell something to everyone at a given price, then that is the standard price... it's not 15% cheaper than the parts it's made from.
For example, if you buy a new car for its full retail price of $20,000, it doesn't mater that the retail price on the components required to build that car total $23,000... if you paid $20,000 you paid full price, you didn't save 15%.
2. If you choose to group or bundle a product of a certain type, it it doesn't stop being a product of that type just because it's now in a group.
For example, if you sell donuts at $1.00 each, and bags of 6 donuts for $5.00, and then you put up a sign that says 'all donuts 15% off' ... you can't say that there is no discount on the bag of donuts, because you later choose to identify it as a bundle and not donuts.
It's two really simple concepts, there's no mystery to it, and I would appreciate if someone from dndbeyond would engage directly with my points, rather than engage with other people commenting about other adjacent topics in this thread.
my opinion on this (and its just that my opinion) it would be fair to allow people who had already purchased the legendary bundle prior to the updating and correcting of the wording of the legendary bundle to get their 15% off the products in question and say this is a one time thing going forward all bundles will not be part of the 15% off and any one who purchased the legendary bundle post correction not be eligible and that be the end of it.
Late to the party here but yeah I am currently having a similar issue that leads me to believe they don't care about their customers and will not ever. I love(d?) the site and made one large purchase (The Legendary Bundle) and would have spent a whole whole lot more than what I was asking for over the course of a good relationship, but have decided to back off and cut my losses. Was going to purchase a Master Tier subscription today and even thinking of gifting the LB at its current big discount to a friend of mine, but I think I'm just gonna use what I've bought until I wear it out while looking around at other options. Which will certainly be available by the time I work my way through the LB.
Christina, I guess I don't see what your issue is. You don't mention it. If you have recently purchased the LB, then you already have the Essential's Kit. If it's that they don't give a discount for subscriptions...I'm not sure why you'd expect that. The discount is towards future book purchases ONLY. Guide to Wildemount on preorder, you still get the 15% off. Plus the BookThanks for an additional $5 off. It doesn't work on what it doesn't say it covers. Books, yes. Other bundles, maps, source add-ons, etc...no.
If you truly were going to give the LB to a friend, I don't buy that you'd let some insignificant issue really stop you there....I'm sure your friend would be ecstatically thankful regardless and may actually find more use for this site than you are currently thinking. I wish I could gift the LB to all my friends. One has it, and for the others, I'm thinking of getting the subscription so we can all share. I'm simply waiting for everyone to make free accounts to show they'd use it outside of use with the books already.
It's a different specific issue, about which I have been in discussion with the company. Do you work for them? If so, this kind of response is exactly why I will do no further business with them. It assumes a lot that is inaccurate (pretty much everything you said) and is insulting. It is not unusual at all for me to make gifts of this size or type to friends, family members, and even people I do not know through charities. I won't support a company that doesn't value its customers though (which was the point of my post, not the specific issue, and which is quite significant to me), no matter how much my friends may like it. There is always another option.
I have money to spend, quite a bit actually. Someone will appreciate it.
Do you work for them? If so, this kind of response is exactly why I will do no further business with them.
Accounts with Orange names are moderators, red names are dev team. Those are the ones that work for DDB. Blue named accounts like ManOfValor of me are just regular user accounts, customers same as you.
And you never said what your problem actually is, so all we can do is assume.
Generally I ignore the "I was going to spend money, but now I'm not" people, because it seems like they are trying to hold their own money hostage to make demands of the company (which is dumb), and if that is not the case then they would just be complaining with no intention of improving the service (which is pointless). I only responded here to clear up who is staff and who is just trying to help for no reason.
People have lots of choices with their money. If a customer isn't satisfied, it's not up to them to say why, it's up to the company to find out.
Two customers are expressing their dissatisfaction on the company-sponcered public forum, and do not seem to be receiving any attempt to reach some sort of compromise.
As an outside observer, I am being warned off purchasing any digital content. I would expect someone would contact both users. If you do not have a customer's loyalty, and those customers you may have are being warned away, that company could face a troubled future.
People have lots of choices with their money. If a customer isn't satisfied, it's not up to them to say why, it's up to the company to find out.
Two customers are expressing their dissatisfaction on the company-sponcered public forum, and do not seem to be receiving any attempt to reach some sort of compromise.
As an outside observer, I am being warned off purchasing any digital content. I would expect someone would contact both users. If you do not have a customer's loyalty, and those customers you may have are being warned away, that company could face a troubled future.
People are attempting to help them.
No one can help that the description of a product they bought is not to their liking, or if they don't like the way the product description was changed after purchase to account for product types that did not exist at time of purchase. Especially when the new description of that product still accomplishes exactly what was expected before change. The customer's expectations changed, not their purchase, the only "help" we can offer is to try to adjust their expectations back.
And no one can help fix a problem that refuses to identify itself.
The first person has had staff respond, but like I said, can't fix a broken customer. The second person hasn't mentioned a problem to be fixed, the only thing a mod could do is echo our attempts to get information.
The digital tools here are great, the community is (mostly) great, the staff is helpful and polite. DDB may have a few issues, but it is still better and cheaper than its competitors (in my observations).
However, as you stated, you don't know anything about the problem I am referring to here or my communication with the company about it (it's not something general users can help). I absolutely explained my issue to them very clearly and politely and suggested several very reasonable ways they could make it right for me. They completely (and rather shortly) brushed me off without the slightest consideration. Just outright refused to even consider working with me at all.
It's not about the problem in question, as I've said. Here, this problem, is that if I -have- a problem, I cannot trust them to help me with it (0 of 2 so far). I am not holding my money hostage, I am protecting it. It was not until after a thorough (and again, perfectly polite) attempt to get a mutually acceptable resolution that I decided it would not be in my best interest to spend any more with them. I gave them several hundred dollars in good faith but I won't continue to reward a company that I cannot trust and treats me with so little respect in return. That is simply not smart.
I assure you, I try my very best not to behave in a dumb or pointless manner when it comes to significant portions of my hard earned cash.
I think the problem other forum users might be having is the cryptically stating that you're "0 for 2" on problems with DDB and that you're now "protecting" your money, you're insinuating there's some deep problem written ddbs service, but not actually saying what that problem is. Thus you're not giving others the information they would likely want/need to make informed decisions about using the service, just leaving it to their imagination as to what it could be.
You're obviously under zero obligation to share your troubles the using the service, but you can probably appreciate how others that use this service might want to know what potential issues there might be for their own future usage.
I am not insinuating anything. I have said quite plainly that I do not trust them to help me if I have an issue with their product or service, based on my experience with them so far. I talked with you about one of them and I really appreciate your help. The other I prefer to keep between me and them, but the real problem, and the one that I won't risk any more money on, is the one I have stated several times already. It doesn't really matter what the specific problem is if the other party won't work with you on it. It really is as simple as that.
They have NOT done anything illegal or tried to steal money from me or anything at all even remotely resembling anything like that.
For the sake of clarity, I want to start by letting you know that I am an avid dndbeyond user... and I have had an active DM subscription for almost 2 years, and I have previously purchased a legendary bundle, and I was in the process of buying new content from dndbeyond (which I still purchased despite the issue listed below)... I love using dndbeyond, I'm going to keep using dndbeyond, I'm just left feeling really disappointed and let down in dndbeyond over an inconsequential amount of money.
I chose to purchased a legendary bundle in may of 2018, not just because of the plethora of content it included, but also because it also included the following caveat to protect my future purchases: "Purchasing the Legendary Bundle also secures a 15% discount off standard pricing for all future official digital Dungeons & Dragons sourcebook and adventure purchases. You will automatically receive this discount for each new release."
My issue relates to the fact that now, after purchasing the legendary bundle, when I go to purchase the Essentials Kit (which is sold as a single product by WOTC, and the four adventures within it are not for separate sale), I am being told by @DnDBeyond on Twitter, that the discount which has been SECURED by my purchase of the legendary bundle does not apply to the purchase of the Essentials Kit boxed set on dndbeyond, because dndbeyond has split the single product into it's component adventures, and then created a bundle from those components... then they say that the discount from the legendary bundle doesn't apply to new bundle purchases, even if that bundle is made exclusively of adventures (like the Essentials Kit is).
My issue relates to the fact that there are no exclusions to the discount formally listed anywhere, they didn't tell me about it not working with bundle purchases when I purchased the Legendary Bundle (and they couldn't have, as there were no other bundles at that time), and it still doesn't list any limitations or exclusions in the description of that bundle if a new person was to purchase it.
At this point I've sunk well over $1000AUD into digital content and subscriptions on a website, and dndbeyond arguing over $3 off the Essentials Kit because they chose to repackage it seems like a cheap and tacky trick that lowers the caliber and standing of the company.
Quite frankly dndbeyond, I thought this sort of shenanigans was below you... given that this only applies to people who have already spent a lot of money with you, please stop being so cheap and nasty, so that I don't have a bad taste in my mouth every time I load up the website.
The updated description of the legendary bundle (since there was nothing else in the marketplace besides sourcebooks and adventures when it first came out) now specifies it is a 15% discount on all sourcebooks and adventure books that come out after purchase.
Notably, the physical essentials kit only comes with dragon of ice spire peak, the other 3 adventures are digital exclusive (the physical kit does have a code that redeems for all 4 adventures). The 15% discount applies to all 4 adventures but not the bundled kit option. The kit bundle is an unusual situation.
So, we can agree that it's a change they have made after the fact, it only effects new bundles (so just the essential kit?), and that it only applies to people who have purchased a legendary bundle... because if we just wait for the next coupon code, that coupon code would apply to that purchase.
Sure, they've made a business decision to prevent the people who invested so much with them from getting a 15% discount that they promised them, but they are happy to hand out a 25% discount to anyone with a coupon code... But it just feels so bad to watch them go to so much effort to try and apply it to people retrospectively over a mater of $3.... and given that it only applies to like one thing, it seems like a really poor decision from a marketing standpoint to upset their best customers over such a small thing... it's just poor form.
I don't know what to tell you. The discount applies to books, not bundles. The description didn't specify this back when there was nothing on the marketplace except books, but the description was updated when the variety of content was. The discount applies to everything that gets added to the bundle after the fact, this does not include other bundles, just books.
And the essential kit is 15% less than the sum of the books, same as the discount. You are not being charged more despite your previous bundle purchase, everyone else is being charged less regardless of bundle purchase.
I can see why this may seem confusing, or possibly even deceptive, so please allow me to explain a bit further.
At the point where you purchased your Legendary Bundle, the description was correct - D&D Beyond only contained either Sourcebooks or Adventures, all of which were included in the Legendary Bundle. At that time, it was considered that all future products would neatly fall into either Sourcebook, or Adventure.
At a later date, the opportunity arose to start including other content on D&D Beyond, such as the Tactical Map pack and content from box sets, like the Essentials Kit. It also became clear, for a number of reasons, that these separate products shouldn't be included in the Legendary Bundle (Adam has discussed the thinking behind this on the dev update stream).
At that time, the description of the new Legendary Bundle was updated, to better explain the situation.
There is a thread here, where Adam (the General Manager of D&D Beyond) has answered questions on this - please take a look, as it addresses your concerns better than I can.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/d-d-beyond-feedback/32990-do-you-think-that-the-legendary-bundle-gives-a
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
This would be twice now where the Legendary Bundle discount application has changed to exclude certain products despite the description of the discount, under which the discount was gained and therefore constituting a contract, leading very obviously and clearly to the belief that it would apply to those products before the fact.
The only reason I can't lodge a legal complaint is because apparently not being American makes me ineligible, and my own government body won't bother to wade in on a digital platform that is, comparatively speaking, small bikkies for them. Otherwise I would've pursued legal action over the exclusion of the Tactical Maps from the discount.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
― Oscar Wilde.
The Legendary Bundle description has only changed once, to be updated with further information - the discussion around this is in the thread I linked above.
This thread is regarding the same change in description as that previous thread.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
The thread you linked is clearly an argument about different kinds of digital content (specifically map packs vs adventures and source books), and to avoid having to apply the discount to those new product lines, they said that there would be future bundles of map packs that would allow ALL buyers to get a 15% discount (and I assure you, people that have effectively paid for a loyalty scheme, don't want you to give that deal to other people that haven't paid for it... you can see that clearly in the thread you linked).
Clearly, we are not talking about the same thing here, as the content in question here are all adventures... and you're agreeing that, adventure and sourcebook content should get a 15% discount... I purchased a product that SECURED my ability to get a set discount on the agreed content, and nothing in the terms of sale excluded any content based on whether or not that content was bundled or otherwise.
So what's stopping dndbeyond from just changing their product types from 'source book' to 'rules book', and 'adventure' to 'escapade' after the fact, which means they wouldn't need to apply the discount as it now only applies to source books and adventures?
My final concern here is that dndbeyond are trying to retrospectively change what I have agreed to in the terms of sale (which are locked at the time of sale, because it's the 'terms of sale' and not an ongoing service agreement).... So instead of just saying they changed the current Terms of Sale like many of the moderators did in the thread you linked, I invite you to quote the paragraph in the Terms of Sale that applies to the purchase I made from dndbeyond that allows them to stop providing me a discount on future sales that I bought from them on 29/05/2018.
In summary, we both agree that the content of the Essentials Kit is 100% adventures, but instead of labeling it as an adventure (like Tales of the Yawning Portal, or Ghost of Saltmarsh), they gave it a new product type of bundle, then retrospectively changed the product description of the legendary bundle after the fact in an to attempt to say that bundled adventures are not included... but neither the current description, nor the terms of service say that grouping adventures in a bundle stops them being adventures... and yet they spend hours arguing with people on the internet about it, instead of just honouring their initial sale in good faith.
But the adventures within the essentials kit are available for individual sale and are discounted 15% if you have the legendary bundle. They have kept their promise.
Bundles are a different type of product (the same type as the legendary bundle) and not part of the legendary bundle ever since the 1 time they changed the description of the LB to account for future non-book content.
I think you're intentionally missing the point.
1. If you sell something to everyone at a given price, then that is the standard price... it's not 15% cheaper than the parts it's made from.
For example, if you buy a new car for its full retail price of $20,000, it doesn't mater that the retail price on the components required to build that car total $23,000... if you paid $20,000 you paid full price, you didn't save 15%.
2. If you choose to group or bundle a product of a certain type, it it doesn't stop being a product of that type just because it's now in a group.
For example, if you sell donuts at $1.00 each, and bags of 6 donuts for $5.00, and then you put up a sign that says 'all donuts 15% off' ... you can't say that there is no discount on the bag of donuts, because you later choose to identify it as a bundle and not donuts.
It's two really simple concepts, there's no mystery to it, and I would appreciate if someone from dndbeyond would engage directly with my points, rather than engage with other people commenting about other adjacent topics in this thread.
my opinion on this (and its just that my opinion) it would be fair to allow people who had already purchased the legendary bundle prior to the updating and correcting of the wording of the legendary bundle to get their 15% off the products in question and say this is a one time thing going forward all bundles will not be part of the 15% off and any one who purchased the legendary bundle post correction not be eligible and that be the end of it.
Late to the party here but yeah I am currently having a similar issue that leads me to believe they don't care about their customers and will not ever. I love(d?) the site and made one large purchase (The Legendary Bundle) and would have spent a whole whole lot more than what I was asking for over the course of a good relationship, but have decided to back off and cut my losses. Was going to purchase a Master Tier subscription today and even thinking of gifting the LB at its current big discount to a friend of mine, but I think I'm just gonna use what I've bought until I wear it out while looking around at other options. Which will certainly be available by the time I work my way through the LB.
Christina, I guess I don't see what your issue is. You don't mention it. If you have recently purchased the LB, then you already have the Essential's Kit. If it's that they don't give a discount for subscriptions...I'm not sure why you'd expect that. The discount is towards future book purchases ONLY. Guide to Wildemount on preorder, you still get the 15% off. Plus the BookThanks for an additional $5 off. It doesn't work on what it doesn't say it covers. Books, yes. Other bundles, maps, source add-ons, etc...no.
If you truly were going to give the LB to a friend, I don't buy that you'd let some insignificant issue really stop you there....I'm sure your friend would be ecstatically thankful regardless and may actually find more use for this site than you are currently thinking. I wish I could gift the LB to all my friends. One has it, and for the others, I'm thinking of getting the subscription so we can all share. I'm simply waiting for everyone to make free accounts to show they'd use it outside of use with the books already.
It's a different specific issue, about which I have been in discussion with the company. Do you work for them? If so, this kind of response is exactly why I will do no further business with them. It assumes a lot that is inaccurate (pretty much everything you said) and is insulting. It is not unusual at all for me to make gifts of this size or type to friends, family members, and even people I do not know through charities. I won't support a company that doesn't value its customers though (which was the point of my post, not the specific issue, and which is quite significant to me), no matter how much my friends may like it. There is always another option.
I have money to spend, quite a bit actually. Someone will appreciate it.
Accounts with Orange names are moderators, red names are dev team. Those are the ones that work for DDB. Blue named accounts like ManOfValor of me are just regular user accounts, customers same as you.
And you never said what your problem actually is, so all we can do is assume.
Generally I ignore the "I was going to spend money, but now I'm not" people, because it seems like they are trying to hold their own money hostage to make demands of the company (which is dumb), and if that is not the case then they would just be complaining with no intention of improving the service (which is pointless). I only responded here to clear up who is staff and who is just trying to help for no reason.
People have lots of choices with their money. If a customer isn't satisfied, it's not up to them to say why, it's up to the company to find out.
Two customers are expressing their dissatisfaction on the company-sponcered public forum, and do not seem to be receiving any attempt to reach some sort of compromise.
As an outside observer, I am being warned off purchasing any digital content. I would expect someone would contact both users. If you do not have a customer's loyalty, and those customers you may have are being warned away, that company could face a troubled future.
People are attempting to help them.
No one can help that the description of a product they bought is not to their liking, or if they don't like the way the product description was changed after purchase to account for product types that did not exist at time of purchase. Especially when the new description of that product still accomplishes exactly what was expected before change. The customer's expectations changed, not their purchase, the only "help" we can offer is to try to adjust their expectations back.
And no one can help fix a problem that refuses to identify itself.
The first person has had staff respond, but like I said, can't fix a broken customer. The second person hasn't mentioned a problem to be fixed, the only thing a mod could do is echo our attempts to get information.
The digital tools here are great, the community is (mostly) great, the staff is helpful and polite. DDB may have a few issues, but it is still better and cheaper than its competitors (in my observations).
I appreciate your help on the other topic DxJxC.
However, as you stated, you don't know anything about the problem I am referring to here or my communication with the company about it (it's not something general users can help). I absolutely explained my issue to them very clearly and politely and suggested several very reasonable ways they could make it right for me. They completely (and rather shortly) brushed me off without the slightest consideration. Just outright refused to even consider working with me at all.
It's not about the problem in question, as I've said. Here, this problem, is that if I -have- a problem, I cannot trust them to help me with it (0 of 2 so far). I am not holding my money hostage, I am protecting it. It was not until after a thorough (and again, perfectly polite) attempt to get a mutually acceptable resolution that I decided it would not be in my best interest to spend any more with them. I gave them several hundred dollars in good faith but I won't continue to reward a company that I cannot trust and treats me with so little respect in return. That is simply not smart.
I assure you, I try my very best not to behave in a dumb or pointless manner when it comes to significant portions of my hard earned cash.
I think the problem other forum users might be having is the cryptically stating that you're "0 for 2" on problems with DDB and that you're now "protecting" your money, you're insinuating there's some deep problem written ddbs service, but not actually saying what that problem is. Thus you're not giving others the information they would likely want/need to make informed decisions about using the service, just leaving it to their imagination as to what it could be.
You're obviously under zero obligation to share your troubles the using the service, but you can probably appreciate how others that use this service might want to know what potential issues there might be for their own future usage.
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I am not insinuating anything. I have said quite plainly that I do not trust them to help me if I have an issue with their product or service, based on my experience with them so far. I talked with you about one of them and I really appreciate your help. The other I prefer to keep between me and them, but the real problem, and the one that I won't risk any more money on, is the one I have stated several times already. It doesn't really matter what the specific problem is if the other party won't work with you on it. It really is as simple as that.
They have NOT done anything illegal or tried to steal money from me or anything at all even remotely resembling anything like that.