That was a really long, complex sentence. Incomprehensible to me. Can anyone translate?
"free" stuff usually isn't free - you paid for, and the company is pretending that you didn't because marketing.
Example: Chaosium sells a slipcase edition of their Call of Cthulhu game for $129.99. When you buy that from them directly, you also get the digital version of the included products. But those digital versions are not free or even discounted because the $129.99 price paid covers the cost of the digital versions with the portion of the price that would have paid distributor and store had you picked up the same slipcase set from somewhere other than direct from Chaosium.
Got it, thanks for clarifying. Why the focus on whether it is included for free or not? For me it is enough to make my point that it is included at all. People getting merged into this thread are just asking if digital is included in their purchase and by this example there is nothing wrong with them for thinking it might have been.
Got it, thanks for clarifying. Why the focus on whether it is included for free or not? For me it is enough to make my point that it is included at all. People getting merged into this thread are just asking if digital is included in their purchase and by this example there is nothing wrong with them by thinking it might have been.
Because you, and others, are suggesting that the digital versions should be free if someone has purchased the physical version.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Got it, thanks for clarifying. Why the focus on whether it is included for free or not? For me it is enough to make my point that it is included at all. People getting merged into this thread are just asking if digital is included in their purchase and by this example there is nothing wrong with them by thinking it might have been.
Because you, and others, are suggesting that the digital versions should be free if someone has purchased the physical version.
I've never meant to suggest that. I've been suggesting that it be discounted. I don't even think anyone has. Again, I took it as people hoping the digital was included (free, discounted or full price w/e). Like we all are agreeing, I think, we cannot know if it is free or not anyway so it's really beside the point.
Got it, thanks for clarifying. Why the focus on whether it is included for free or not? For me it is enough to make my point that it is included at all. People getting merged into this thread are just asking if digital is included in their purchase and by this example there is nothing wrong with them by thinking it might have been.
Because you, and others, are suggesting that the digital versions should be free if someone has purchased the physical version.
I've never meant to suggest that. I've been suggesting that it be discounted. I don't even think anyone has. Again, I took it as people hoping the digital was included (free, discounted or full price w/e). Like we all are agreeing, I think, we cannot know if it is free or not anyway so it's really beside the point.
It is discounted. By a lot. As we've already pointed out ad nauseam.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Got it, thanks for clarifying. Why the focus on whether it is included for free or not? For me it is enough to make my point that it is included at all. People getting merged into this thread are just asking if digital is included in their purchase and by this example there is nothing wrong with them by thinking it might have been.
Because you, and others, are suggesting that the digital versions should be free if someone has purchased the physical version.
I've never meant to suggest that. I've been suggesting that it be discounted. I don't even think anyone has. Again, I took it as people hoping the digital was included (free, discounted or full price w/e). Like we all are agreeing, I think, we cannot know if it is free or not anyway so it's really beside the point.
It is discounted. By a lot. As we've already pointed out ad nauseam.
DDB's PHB compendium is not discounted because of having bought the same content already though. The $500 bundle could be discounted because it is known that you bought the physical AND the digital content. It could be further discounted from the DDB compendium price for that adventure module.
DDB's PHB compendium is not discounted because of having bought the same content already though. The $500 bundle could be discounted because it is known that you bought the physical AND the digital content.
SMH.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
DDB's PHB compendium is not discounted because of having bought the same content already though. The $500 bundle could be discounted because it is known that you bought the physical AND the digital content. It could be further discounted from the DDB compendium price for that adventure module.
1. You never purchase content, you are only purchasing the paper it is printed on, that's pretty much copyright, so lets please stop with the "i bought the content" argument, no you did not.
2. It is only the same content if you had purchased the physical before hand, in which, there was no promise, offer or guarantee that you would get it in any other medium for a discounted/ reduced price or free. No one is forcing you or saying you have to have the digital version to play the game, it is a luxury if you want both, not a requirement.
3. The digital compendium is steeply discounted to the physical cost. Do i get the physical book cheaper somewhere because i purchased the digital version?
4. Are you also over at Roll20/FG on the forums asking for the same discounted price? If not, why? You do realize that until DDB came along, you had to pay full MSRP at Roll20 for the books, so you really would be paying double depending on where you bought the physical.
Lastly, I really do not see the $500 Bundle offered by a third party that includes a code to get the digital version at another 3rd party to show anything other than two vendors got together and struck a deal. I am sure some of those things cost them pennies to make when buying in quantity, so the "value" stated or shown is no where near cost and yes, they are out to make a profit and they will.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
DDB's PHB compendium is not discounted because of having bought the same content already though.
5e PHB retail $49.95
DDB PHB Compendium $19.99
Difference of $29.96. It is literally discounted by almost 60% from the physical PHB.
You don't get (nor are you owed) any extra discount on top of that for having bought the physical book. It might be nice if WotC offered that, but they are not obligated to do so at all.
The digital can't be a discount off the physical. To me, that's not a discount. A discount is like a senior citizen, military, family friends discount where the store recognizes you as a qualifying customer for the discount and gives you a % off the same exact transaction. What you're describing is not a discount imo.
Even still, what's the goal of all these comebacks? Are you(plural) trying to maintain the stance that you can label people getting merged here as entitled or flawed in some way because they thought the digital compendium content might be included in the purchase of the physical copy because they contain the same content? Are you trying to say that the content purchased registry is flawed (even though DDB uses it)? For example, in point 1. you focus on the truth that you don't buy the content. That doesn't change the fact that you have to have to pay for it twice. The difference between "purchasing the content" and "paying for the content" is such a pointless thing to focus on. It's true, but it doesn't refute anything. None of these comebacks do.
1. DDB and WotC are different companies. DDB is created by Curse and owned by Twitch. Asking DDB (Curse/Twitch) to give a discount because you/they purchased a different thing from a different company is not relevant here.
2. The difference in price between the physical PHB and the DDB compendium does constitute a discount, in so far as they are not the same price, despite being the same content. A consumer can purchase a physical PHB for $49.95, and then buy another discounted copy of the PHB by purchasing the Compendium from DDB.
(In fact, a consumer could purchase a physical copy of the PHB from Amazon at a discount, and then purchase the Compendium on DDB, and effectively get both versions for about the same cost as the physical PHB alone from a B&M store).
3. No content producer is obligated to ever offer a discount on anything. Some people argue (quite seriously) that because they bought a product from a company, if that company produces some derivative version of that work in a different format, the consumer is owed a discount, or free copy. Those people are wrong, because there is no law compelling any such thing. I am not debating the morality or philosophy of it, only the reality of commerce in the USA and Canada.
4. The cost of a product will reflect what the market is willing to bear. That DDB and WotC have been so resoundingly successful with 5e publications at the current prices means that the prices they demand are the "correct" ones, otherwise they would change those prices.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
DDB's PHB compendium is not discounted because of having bought the same content already though.
Just to make sure I am understanding your logic, you're saying that it doesn't count as a discount because the lower price isn't a result of a prior purchase?
So, by this logic, the prices could be exactly the same as they are now, except that users who haven't previously purchased the physical PHB would have to pay more for the Compendium Content (let's say hypothetically, full MSRP), and then you would be fine since it would be a discount at that point?
If I am understanding this correctly, why not just pretend like you are getting a special discount and pay what they ask? Why does it have to be a reward?
1. DDB and WotC are different companies. DDB is created by Curse and owned by Twitch. Asking DDB (Curse/Twitch) to give a discount because you/they purchased a different thing from a different company is not relevant here.
So people come here asking, "Hey I purchased the PHB book, does that include the compendium content here?" We respond "No it doesn't." but we don't add "Why would you ever think that? That's ridiculous to think it would be included. You're entitled." because if they had just asked the same question replacing PHB with $500 Waterdeep Dragon Heist Platinum Edition we would say, "Yes. Here's a link to the redemption key page." Just because they are different things from different companies they still have overlapping content so it's not ridiculous to think that a content purchased registry is in place (or should be in place) at a WotC level that would allow for a discount.
2. The difference in price between the physical PHB and the DDB compendium does constitute a discount, in so far as they are not the same price, despite being the same content. A consumer can purchase a physical PHB for $49.95, and then buy another discounted copy of the PHB by purchasing the Compendium from DDB.
(In fact, a consumer could purchase a physical copy of the PHB from Amazon at a discount, and then purchase the Compendium on DDB, and effectively get both versions for about the same cost as the physical PHB alone from a B&M store).
I can't argue with you any further on this. It's just a matter of what you think the word discount means and you can believe whatever you want there. If you think a barrel of apples is a discount on an apple tree ... w/e.
3. No content producer is obligated to ever offer a discount on anything. Some people argue (quite seriously) that because they bought a product from a company, if that company produces some derivative version of that work in a different format, the consumer is owed a discount, or free copy. Those people are wrong, because there is no law compelling any such thing. I am not debating the morality or philosophy of it, only the reality of commerce in the USA and Canada.
Again a great point but still irrelevant for me. This goes back to my confidence in the purchase. I don't think it's necessary to take it further into morality or philosophy, but I can say how that makes me feel about some of my purchases, regret. The fact that it's all legal doesn't do anything to resolve the issues. Legality is beside the point.
4. The cost of a product will reflect what the market is willing to bear. That DDB and WotC have been so resoundingly successful with 5e publications at the current prices means that the prices they demand are the "correct" ones, otherwise they would change those prices.
This is an oversimplification. You don't know that the market cannot bear higher prices. You haven't done any tests where you raise or lower the price on cohort user groups and measure profit margins. Again, arguments saying that DDB is successful support a stance FOR using a content purchased registry.
At the risk of being pedantic, the word "discount" has a definition. How you view discounts, that it be given in consideration of something else like already purchased physical books, is accurate. But special consideration is not a requirement of a discount, just a subset of discounts.
Ar the risk of being pedantic, the word "discount" has a definition. How you view discount, that it be given in consideration of something else like already purchased physical books, is accurate. But special consideration is not a requirement of a discount, just a subset of discounts.
One can buy the PHB for full price at retail, or for a discounted price from DDB. The price on DDB is discounted from the price of the physical PHB.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Ar the risk of being pedantic, the word "discount" has a definition. How you view discount, that it be given in consideration of something else like already purchased physical books, is accurate. But special consideration is not a requirement of a discount, just a subset of discounts.
One can buy the PHB for full price at retail, or for a discounted price from DDB. The price on DDB is discounted from the price of the physical PHB.
"The price on DDB is [less than] the price of the physical PHB." To me, "is discounted" is not synonymous with "less than".
dis·count
/ˈdiskount/
noun
1.
a deduction from the usual cost of something, typically given for prompt or advance payment or to a special category of buyers.
In your example there is no special category of buyers. Your "discount" is given to all digital compendium consumers. Nor is there any prompt for the discount.
The difference in price between the physical PHB and the DDB compendium does constitute a discount
You're saying the digital compendium is the discount on the physical but I'm saying that the the proof of purchase should constitute a new price which is a discount on the digital compendium. Refer back to my x/y/z explanation. There is a missing price point.
Please refer to your copied definition's use of the word "typically." Again, not all discounts require special circumstances. Whether or not it's one to you, it is a discount. That's not a matter of opinion. Whether or not it is enough of a discount certainly can be.
Additionally, consider that what you are asking for is two separate discounts to be applied simultaneously. Any marketable product with more than one discount applicable will only ever apply one upon purchase. Typically the better discount, but in the end you would find yourself in the same situation you are now.
Have you seen anything that specifies that licensed content purchased via D&D Beyond carrying a different MSRP from WOTC? You can interpret "discount" vs. "less than" until you're blue in the face, but it really has no relevance at all to "fact".
I have an idea that should shut this thread down. DDB increases the price of standalone compendium (only) content by $5 - it's still cheap compared to hardcopy at this price. They include a checkbox that says, "I own a physical copy of the product" that, when checked, reduces the cost of the compendium content by $5. This is an honour system, a goodwill gesture, so you don't need to produce a proof of purchase. Boom, everybody wins and this thread becomes irrelevant.
So, if it's not a discount, wouldn't that then mean that DDB and the physical PHB aren't the same thing twice?
Because if they are the same thing, and DDB is cheaper, wouldn't that be a discount? If they are different products at different prices, then DDB is just less than the physical.
And if they are completely different products at different prices, then buying one wouldn't entitle me to a discount of the other.
"free" stuff usually isn't free - you paid for, and the company is pretending that you didn't because marketing.
Example: Chaosium sells a slipcase edition of their Call of Cthulhu game for $129.99. When you buy that from them directly, you also get the digital version of the included products. But those digital versions are not free or even discounted because the $129.99 price paid covers the cost of the digital versions with the portion of the price that would have paid distributor and store had you picked up the same slipcase set from somewhere other than direct from Chaosium.
Got it, thanks for clarifying. Why the focus on whether it is included for free or not? For me it is enough to make my point that it is included at all. People getting merged into this thread are just asking if digital is included in their purchase and by this example there is nothing wrong with them for thinking it might have been.
Because you, and others, are suggesting that the digital versions should be free if someone has purchased the physical version.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I've never meant to suggest that. I've been suggesting that it be discounted. I don't even think anyone has. Again, I took it as people hoping the digital was included (free, discounted or full price w/e). Like we all are agreeing, I think, we cannot know if it is free or not anyway so it's really beside the point.
It is discounted. By a lot. As we've already pointed out ad nauseam.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
DDB's PHB compendium is not discounted because of having bought the same content already though. The $500 bundle could be discounted because it is known that you bought the physical AND the digital content. It could be further discounted from the DDB compendium price for that adventure module.
SMH.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
1. You never purchase content, you are only purchasing the paper it is printed on, that's pretty much copyright, so lets please stop with the "i bought the content" argument, no you did not.
2. It is only the same content if you had purchased the physical before hand, in which, there was no promise, offer or guarantee that you would get it in any other medium for a discounted/ reduced price or free. No one is forcing you or saying you have to have the digital version to play the game, it is a luxury if you want both, not a requirement.
3. The digital compendium is steeply discounted to the physical cost. Do i get the physical book cheaper somewhere because i purchased the digital version?
4. Are you also over at Roll20/FG on the forums asking for the same discounted price? If not, why? You do realize that until DDB came along, you had to pay full MSRP at Roll20 for the books, so you really would be paying double depending on where you bought the physical.
Lastly, I really do not see the $500 Bundle offered by a third party that includes a code to get the digital version at another 3rd party to show anything other than two vendors got together and struck a deal. I am sure some of those things cost them pennies to make when buying in quantity, so the "value" stated or shown is no where near cost and yes, they are out to make a profit and they will.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
5e PHB retail $49.95
DDB PHB Compendium $19.99
Difference of $29.96. It is literally discounted by almost 60% from the physical PHB.
You don't get (nor are you owed) any extra discount on top of that for having bought the physical book. It might be nice if WotC offered that, but they are not obligated to do so at all.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
The digital can't be a discount off the physical. To me, that's not a discount. A discount is like a senior citizen, military, family friends discount where the store recognizes you as a qualifying customer for the discount and gives you a % off the same exact transaction. What you're describing is not a discount imo.
Even still, what's the goal of all these comebacks? Are you(plural) trying to maintain the stance that you can label people getting merged here as entitled or flawed in some way because they thought the digital compendium content might be included in the purchase of the physical copy because they contain the same content? Are you trying to say that the content purchased registry is flawed (even though DDB uses it)? For example, in point 1. you focus on the truth that you don't buy the content. That doesn't change the fact that you have to have to pay for it twice. The difference between "purchasing the content" and "paying for the content" is such a pointless thing to focus on. It's true, but it doesn't refute anything. None of these comebacks do.
My goal is to educate new visitors to DDB that:
1. DDB and WotC are different companies. DDB is created by Curse and owned by Twitch. Asking DDB (Curse/Twitch) to give a discount because you/they purchased a different thing from a different company is not relevant here.
2. The difference in price between the physical PHB and the DDB compendium does constitute a discount, in so far as they are not the same price, despite being the same content. A consumer can purchase a physical PHB for $49.95, and then buy another discounted copy of the PHB by purchasing the Compendium from DDB.
(In fact, a consumer could purchase a physical copy of the PHB from Amazon at a discount, and then purchase the Compendium on DDB, and effectively get both versions for about the same cost as the physical PHB alone from a B&M store).
3. No content producer is obligated to ever offer a discount on anything. Some people argue (quite seriously) that because they bought a product from a company, if that company produces some derivative version of that work in a different format, the consumer is owed a discount, or free copy. Those people are wrong, because there is no law compelling any such thing. I am not debating the morality or philosophy of it, only the reality of commerce in the USA and Canada.
4. The cost of a product will reflect what the market is willing to bear. That DDB and WotC have been so resoundingly successful with 5e publications at the current prices means that the prices they demand are the "correct" ones, otherwise they would change those prices.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Just to make sure I am understanding your logic, you're saying that it doesn't count as a discount because the lower price isn't a result of a prior purchase?
So, by this logic, the prices could be exactly the same as they are now, except that users who haven't previously purchased the physical PHB would have to pay more for the Compendium Content (let's say hypothetically, full MSRP), and then you would be fine since it would be a discount at that point?
If I am understanding this correctly, why not just pretend like you are getting a special discount and pay what they ask? Why does it have to be a reward?
So people come here asking, "Hey I purchased the PHB book, does that include the compendium content here?" We respond "No it doesn't." but we don't add "Why would you ever think that? That's ridiculous to think it would be included. You're entitled." because if they had just asked the same question replacing PHB with $500 Waterdeep Dragon Heist Platinum Edition we would say, "Yes. Here's a link to the redemption key page." Just because they are different things from different companies they still have overlapping content so it's not ridiculous to think that a content purchased registry is in place (or should be in place) at a WotC level that would allow for a discount.
I can't argue with you any further on this. It's just a matter of what you think the word discount means and you can believe whatever you want there. If you think a barrel of apples is a discount on an apple tree ... w/e.
Again a great point but still irrelevant for me. This goes back to my confidence in the purchase. I don't think it's necessary to take it further into morality or philosophy, but I can say how that makes me feel about some of my purchases, regret. The fact that it's all legal doesn't do anything to resolve the issues. Legality is beside the point.
This is an oversimplification. You don't know that the market cannot bear higher prices. You haven't done any tests where you raise or lower the price on cohort user groups and measure profit margins. Again, arguments saying that DDB is successful support a stance FOR using a content purchased registry.
At the risk of being pedantic, the word "discount" has a definition. How you view discounts, that it be given in consideration of something else like already purchased physical books, is accurate. But special consideration is not a requirement of a discount, just a subset of discounts.
One can buy the PHB for full price at retail, or for a discounted price from DDB. The price on DDB is discounted from the price of the physical PHB.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
"The price on DDB is [less than] the price of the physical PHB." To me, "is discounted" is not synonymous with "less than".
In your example there is no special category of buyers. Your "discount" is given to all digital compendium consumers. Nor is there any prompt for the discount.
You're saying the digital compendium is the discount on the physical but I'm saying that the the proof of purchase should constitute a new price which is a discount on the digital compendium. Refer back to my x/y/z explanation. There is a missing price point.
Please refer to your copied definition's use of the word "typically." Again, not all discounts require special circumstances. Whether or not it's one to you, it is a discount. That's not a matter of opinion. Whether or not it is enough of a discount certainly can be.
Additionally, consider that what you are asking for is two separate discounts to be applied simultaneously. Any marketable product with more than one discount applicable will only ever apply one upon purchase. Typically the better discount, but in the end you would find yourself in the same situation you are now.
Have you seen anything that specifies that licensed content purchased via D&D Beyond carrying a different MSRP from WOTC? You can interpret "discount" vs. "less than" until you're blue in the face, but it really has no relevance at all to "fact".
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I have an idea that should shut this thread down. DDB increases the price of standalone compendium (only) content by $5 - it's still cheap compared to hardcopy at this price. They include a checkbox that says, "I own a physical copy of the product" that, when checked, reduces the cost of the compendium content by $5. This is an honour system, a goodwill gesture, so you don't need to produce a proof of purchase. Boom, everybody wins and this thread becomes irrelevant.
So, if it's not a discount, wouldn't that then mean that DDB and the physical PHB aren't the same thing twice?
Because if they are the same thing, and DDB is cheaper, wouldn't that be a discount? If they are different products at different prices, then DDB is just less than the physical.
And if they are completely different products at different prices, then buying one wouldn't entitle me to a discount of the other.