Ehh I thought about it. But said no because of money. If they really want this to work. All new books need to include a CD Key in a sense. So people can register there owned product online. And get access to content that they own. And maybe after providing proof unlock the extra online functions for like a dollar or something. Otherwise this site isn't worth the $$. Not one bit.
I paid for the books on fantasy grounds. And I regretted it. I will never pay full price for an online version again. To me the online or digital functionality isn't worth more than the physical copy. And probable won't ever to me. Software is just done wrong everywhere. Seems to be you only ever pay for access. You own nothing. Not even the access. As it can be cut off or banned at any time. Which is lame as ****. So I'll pass. The world of software is ****ed up.
Not sure you are ever coming back to see this reply, but I will respond because it might be useful to the next person who shows up with the same complaint...
D&D Beyond (DDB) is not owned or operated by Wizards of the Coast (WotC).
DDB is operated by Curse, which is owned (now) by Fandom.
Regardless of where you bought your physical books, you most assuredly did NOT buy them from DDB, so DDB owes you nothing. DDB is a reseller of the content in a different format. They paid a license to WotC for the right to do so.
The two are not equivalent.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
The licensing model is understandable. Your explanation is clear.
A pay per use model could be negotiated and provided, included in the monthly subscription fees. It is not. Unfortunate.
A pay per use model can be much more expensive than the current system.
Right now one can pay for exactly what they want, and not a cent more, and keep access to it as long as the site will be around. With a pay-per-use model, the subscription price will be sensibly higher (let's not pretend it would not be), you only have access to stuff (possibly a lot of things you might not even want, making the price much higher than it could be) only as long as you pay for it, and when the site goes one might have spent a lot more than with the single-purchase model.
It might just be me, but it seems clear to me which model is the fairest, in the long run.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I'm not into Magic The Gathering, but my friend is. He was telling me about some years ago some digital version of the card game came out and there was a lot of confusion and complaining about owning physical cards that could not be carried over to the game. Now there's some newer iteration of an MTG digital card game out (or soon to be out?) and now neither the physical cards nor the cards from digital game v1 can be carried over to digital game v2. Looking forward to DDB v2 where we all have to pay AGAIN. I don't know how people are still willing to give so much money to WotC in any way shape or form.
Ehh I thought about it. But said no because of money. If they really want this to work. All new books need to include a CD Key in a sense. So people can register there owned product online. And get access to content that they own. And maybe after providing proof unlock the extra online functions for like a dollar or something. Otherwise this site isn't worth the $$. Not one bit.
I paid for the books on fantasy grounds. And I regretted it. I will never pay full price for an online version again. To me the online or digital functionality isn't worth more than the physical copy. And probable won't ever to me. Software is just done wrong everywhere. Seems to be you only ever pay for access. You own nothing. Not even the access. As it can be cut off or banned at any time. Which is lame as ****. So I'll pass. The world of software is ****ed up.
Not sure you are ever coming back to see this reply, but I will respond because it might be useful to the next person who shows up with the same complaint...
D&D Beyond (DDB) is not owned or operated by Wizards of the Coast (WotC).
DDB is operated by Curse, which is owned (now) by Fandom.
Regardless of where you bought your physical books, you most assuredly did NOT buy them from DDB, so DDB owes you nothing. DDB is a reseller of the content in a different format. They paid a license to WotC for the right to do so.
The two are not equivalent.
Who ever said they were? We live in an age of technology. If WotC want to be more competitive they should consider better ways to integrate with technology.
If DDB wants to resell WotC license/copyrighted material. Than they should work with, or at least attempt to work with WotC. So customers don't have to repay for the same content more than once. I don't give a **** if they are not equivalent, or whatnot. There is little to no effort on either parties to make this convenient. There is clearly a market for online D&D stuff. There are multiple companies trying to sell WotC in a digital capacity. Just because all these companies refuse to figure out a better way for their customers. Doesn't mean I am willing to fork out any more money to any of them. Simple because of the lack of... Well whatever you want to call it.
You simply only look at it as an impossible problem to solve. Try to simplify the reason, because they are different entities. I am telling you. The shit isn't that hard. I have made harder secure programs than this. It's not rocket science. It's computer science. And there are more tools than ever to help accomplish such a mundane software task. It would make WotC more profitable. It would give DDB more customers. And thus more profit. But we all know why the more practical/realistic option isn't chosen. Because of false perception of potential more profit. And not actual profit.
Just like micro-transactions. When companies say we wouldn't have them if most people didn't use it. When in reality only 1% of there customers pay/use them. This fact has been proven. But because the profit from that 1% is so ******* high. Well they don't care about the other 99% of people, or the morals of it. If you want to simplify things. Than I will simplify it in an more realistically way. And based off real market research. Rather; than your attempt to quite reasonable concerns.
So when I say I am not paying for digital content again. Yes I thought about. And probable a lot more deeply than you have. I am sick, and tired of everyone defending shit business practices. Just because they want something.
D&D Beyond (DDB) is not owned or operated by Wizards of the Coast (WotC).
DDB is operated by Curse, which is owned (now) by Fandom.
Regardless of where you bought your physical books, you most assuredly did NOT buy them from DDB, so DDB owes you nothing. DDB is a reseller of the content in a different format. They paid a license to WotC for the right to do so.
The two are not equivalent.
J/k AngryFan I feel your pain and I'm on your side. I'm just humorously predicting what the other side will say.
What we're sick of, Angryfan, is people coming in complaining "I have to buy the same content twice" when that's not the case at all.
You can buy the tools completely separately from the compendium content. The compendium content duplicates what you already have. You're not forced to buy it. The tools are what you want, and they're a completely different product created by a completely different company. You have to pay for access to those, if you don't want to type the information in yourself (which you are absolutely free to do). Don't want to do the work? Pay DDB to do it for you.
The shit business practice we're defending is "people who do work should get paid for it." I don't see why that's so crazy and requires a brave forums stand against it.
What we're sick of, Angryfan, is people coming in complaining "I have to buy the same content twice" when that's not the case at all.
You can buy the tools completely separately from the compendium content. The compendium content duplicates what you already have. You're not forced to buy it. The tools are what you want, and they're a completely different product created by a completely different company. You have to pay for access to those, if you don't want to type the information in yourself (which you are absolutely free to do). Don't want to do the work? Pay DDB to do it for you.
The shit business practice we're defending is "people who do work should get paid for it." I don't see why that's so crazy and requires a brave forums stand against it.
I looked at the tools. I can type in everything for free. So the only thing to pay for here are the rules. Which I already own. Your not really convincing me otherwise. And I'll admit I didn't read all 38 pages prior to posting. And I doubt many people will.
You can type everything in for free. Or you can pay DDB to do it for you. That's the decision you get to make. You don't have to buy the books again if you don't want to.
To stay on topic, what DDB is offering you is two different things. You can get an e-book copy of the physical books that you can read online or on your mobile device. You can also get the character generator, the database that lets you look up monsters/spells/feats, etc. You can get them together or separately. In my case, I bought both of them because both of them are useful to me above and beyond the physical books. I like being able to flip through the entirety of my collection on a single device when I'm stuck waiting somewhere, and I love the ability to look up spells and monsters instantly using the tools without having to dig through a stack of hardbacks. That was worth the purchase price to me. I don't feel like I had to pay for the same product twice.
Angryfan, with your comments, it doesn't sound like DDB is for you. Don't feel bad, it is not for everyone. Sorry you paid FULL MSRP PRICE for digital at that other place. When Curse came along with DDB, they negotiated that price down to compete with Amazon and other physical places, as a side effect, Roll20 and FG could offer it at the same price. You know what, it took Roll20 awhile to finally bring that price down. As far as integration, WOTC released 5e with no intention of going digital. Curse came to WOTC and wanted to create the platform, so they said yes, but to keep it fair, they had to use a license model same as they do with everyone else. Unless you want them to have lawsuits against them for basically creating a monopoly with one of their customers and pushing everyone else out? And why is it a 'shit business plan'? maybe because you already own physical and some digital ? If you had nothing then this is a great deal. If you own a business that sells to retailers, should they change their whole platform just because a new customer comes along? Sorry DDB is not for you.
Kreakdude, I already pointed out here your own words that you are not here for DDB, you are here to protest against WOTC and since they are not listening to you, you came here because we are active.
As for DDB2, I would assume that means we have D&D 6e and yes, we would have to buy new books, same as if you had physical books. However, that is when WotC could possibly start with a rotating Digital license that works among all digital platforms or a possible discount to the digital platform that would be fair to all. Or perhaps a D&D 5.5, but i am sure for now they are going to stay the course.
As I have said before, if you truly have a problem with the licensing model, then talk to WOTC, not DDB. Only WOTC can change it.
For the record, I own both Physical and DDB legendary bundle.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
To stay on topic, what DDB is offering you is two different things. You can get an e-book copy of the physical books that you can read online or on your mobile device. You can also get the character generator, the database that lets you look up monsters/spells/feats, etc. You can get them together or separately.
Can you actually get access to content in the character builder without having bought the compendium? For example, the PHB compendium costs $20. The PHB compendium + character builder access costs $30. Can I just pay $10 and bypass the compendium content? (something you'd want to do if you already have access to the content but don't have the ability to use it in the character builder).
Yes buy just the pieces you want. There isn't a "tools" purchase option but you could for instance buy the "feats" and the "backgrounds" and the "subclasses" and the "races" have pretty much any non spell casting class of the Players Handbook. You could then buy the "spells" (I think) since I've bought the books themselves I can't see the portions anymore or the price.
There were several books that I bought the races and backgrounds separately and then later bought the full version because I found being able to read the text worth it but I can't see a reason a user couldn't buy what the wanted on the tools occasionally make their own on the homebrew tools if it seemed easy enough to save the money. Honestly, I've found DnDBeyond's willingness to make the homebrew tools free and the ability to be incredibly hobby friendly.
I purchased the books even though I owned in Hardback PHB, DMG, MM and Xanathars because I wanted to support them and find the insults laid towards them of them being abusive of the customers shocking, irritating and entitled to a truly amazing degree. DnD isn't even my primary game but when I decide to play DnD I decided it was worth the cost.
To stay on topic, what DDB is offering you is two different things. You can get an e-book copy of the physical books that you can read online or on your mobile device. You can also get the character generator, the database that lets you look up monsters/spells/feats, etc. You can get them together or separately.
Can you actually get access to content in the character builder without having bought the compendium? For example, the PHB compendium costs $20. The PHB compendium + character builder access costs $30. Can I just pay $10 and bypass the compendium content? (something you'd want to do if you already have access to the content but don't have the ability to use it in the character builder).
I can speak from experience that yes, you can. I had bought all character creation options in January 2018. I did not buy any compendium content until I purchased the Legendary bundle, in March 2018.
For the period in-between, I had full access in the character builder.
I am curious what the 28 sources in the Bundle are as I only count 22 in the abstract. Further, I have picked up all but Tortle ($10) and Eberron ($20) which total $30 left to pick up, yet the Bundle in my Marketplace reflects I still have $70 worth of content I could pick up. It doesn't tell me what that content is and I am curious.
Anyone have a content listing for what is actually in the Bundle?
I am curious what the 28 sources in the Bundle are as I only count 22 in the abstract. Further, I have picked up all but Tortle ($10) and Eberron ($20) which total $30 left to pick up, yet the Bundle in my Marketplace reflects I still have $70 worth of content I could pick up. It doesn't tell me what that content is and I am curious.
Anyone have a content listing for what is actually in the Bundle?
I believe that the Tales from the Yawning Portal adventures are considered separate, don't hold me to it, though.
I am curious what the 28 sources in the Bundle are as I only count 22 in the abstract. Further, I have picked up all but Tortle ($10) and Eberron ($20) which total $30 left to pick up, yet the Bundle in my Marketplace reflects I still have $70 worth of content I could pick up. It doesn't tell me what that content is and I am curious.
Anyone have a content listing for what is actually in the Bundle?
I believe that the Tales from the Yawning Portal adventures are considered separate, don't hold me to it, though.
Ah....yes, that would do it.... 21+7 = 28! Although the $69.30 remaining to purchase $30 of books (at list) remains a mystery.
Yeah, the reason I'm asking isn't to make an apples to apples comparison, we've already done that a lot. I think it would be lame if I have paid for access to content in some form (physical, roll20, FG, w/e) and DDB has this cool character builder but in order to use it you have to buy ACCESS to the same content again in order to use that content to which you already had access with the character builder. (buy or data entry which is even more lame)
Btw, how can you buy just character builder access without buying compendium access? Also, even if you can really can do this I think this is still so far a bad buying experience that this situation is made to be so confusing. Still though, allowing us to buy just character builder access without compendium access (even if it's confusing or hidden) is still better than not allowing it at all.
So taking the DMG pricing as an example it is $30 for compendium & character builder. $20 for only compendium. The sum of the Individual Purchases is $20 ... is that the character builder access only? If so, $20 is the value of the compendium and $20 is also the value of the character builder access. Essentially they cap you at $30 so if you buy both you get the 2nd one half off.
Not sure you are ever coming back to see this reply, but I will respond because it might be useful to the next person who shows up with the same complaint...
D&D Beyond (DDB) is not owned or operated by Wizards of the Coast (WotC).
DDB is operated by Curse, which is owned (now) by Fandom.
Regardless of where you bought your physical books, you most assuredly did NOT buy them from DDB, so DDB owes you nothing. DDB is a reseller of the content in a different format. They paid a license to WotC for the right to do so.
The two are not equivalent.
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
The licensing model is understandable. Your explanation is clear.
A pay per use model could be negotiated and provided, included in the monthly subscription fees. It is not. Unfortunate.
Gray Mouser
A pay per use model can be much more expensive than the current system.
Right now one can pay for exactly what they want, and not a cent more, and keep access to it as long as the site will be around.
With a pay-per-use model, the subscription price will be sensibly higher (let's not pretend it would not be), you only have access to stuff (possibly a lot of things you might not even want, making the price much higher than it could be) only as long as you pay for it, and when the site goes one might have spent a lot more than with the single-purchase model.
It might just be me, but it seems clear to me which model is the fairest, in the long run.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
I'm not into Magic The Gathering, but my friend is. He was telling me about some years ago some digital version of the card game came out and there was a lot of confusion and complaining about owning physical cards that could not be carried over to the game. Now there's some newer iteration of an MTG digital card game out (or soon to be out?) and now neither the physical cards nor the cards from digital game v1 can be carried over to digital game v2. Looking forward to DDB v2 where we all have to pay AGAIN. I don't know how people are still willing to give so much money to WotC in any way shape or form.
Who ever said they were? We live in an age of technology. If WotC want to be more competitive they should consider better ways to integrate with technology.
If DDB wants to resell WotC license/copyrighted material. Than they should work with, or at least attempt to work with WotC. So customers don't have to repay for the same content more than once. I don't give a **** if they are not equivalent, or whatnot. There is little to no effort on either parties to make this convenient. There is clearly a market for online D&D stuff. There are multiple companies trying to sell WotC in a digital capacity. Just because all these companies refuse to figure out a better way for their customers. Doesn't mean I am willing to fork out any more money to any of them. Simple because of the lack of... Well whatever you want to call it.
You simply only look at it as an impossible problem to solve. Try to simplify the reason, because they are different entities. I am telling you. The shit isn't that hard. I have made harder secure programs than this. It's not rocket science. It's computer science. And there are more tools than ever to help accomplish such a mundane software task. It would make WotC more profitable. It would give DDB more customers. And thus more profit. But we all know why the more practical/realistic option isn't chosen. Because of false perception of potential more profit. And not actual profit.
Just like micro-transactions. When companies say we wouldn't have them if most people didn't use it. When in reality only 1% of there customers pay/use them. This fact has been proven. But because the profit from that 1% is so ******* high. Well they don't care about the other 99% of people, or the morals of it. If you want to simplify things. Than I will simplify it in an more realistically way. And based off real market research. Rather; than your attempt to quite reasonable concerns.
So when I say I am not paying for digital content again. Yes I thought about. And probable a lot more deeply than you have. I am sick, and tired of everyone defending shit business practices. Just because they want something.
Step aside guys, I got this one.
You see...
D&D Beyond (DDB) is not owned or operated by Wizards of the Coast (WotC).
DDB is operated by Curse, which is owned (now) by Fandom.
Regardless of where you bought your physical books, you most assuredly did NOT buy them from DDB, so DDB owes you nothing. DDB is a reseller of the content in a different format. They paid a license to WotC for the right to do so.
The two are not equivalent.
J/k AngryFan I feel your pain and I'm on your side. I'm just humorously predicting what the other side will say.
Just a gentle warning - this thread is again heading towards a situation where posts are targeted at users, rather than constructive discussion.
If people have ideas, by all means express them.
This can be done without labelling "sides" or insulting the passionate & hard-working development team.
Pun-loving nerd | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
What we're sick of, Angryfan, is people coming in complaining "I have to buy the same content twice" when that's not the case at all.
You can buy the tools completely separately from the compendium content. The compendium content duplicates what you already have. You're not forced to buy it. The tools are what you want, and they're a completely different product created by a completely different company. You have to pay for access to those, if you don't want to type the information in yourself (which you are absolutely free to do). Don't want to do the work? Pay DDB to do it for you.
The shit business practice we're defending is "people who do work should get paid for it." I don't see why that's so crazy and requires a brave forums stand against it.
I looked at the tools. I can type in everything for free. So the only thing to pay for here are the rules. Which I already own. Your not really convincing me otherwise. And I'll admit I didn't read all 38 pages prior to posting. And I doubt many people will.
Lets all stay on topic. Talk about the product and value (or lack thereof) of what is offered rather than have an argument that is clearly off-topic.
D&D Beyond vs. Physical books
Please continue.
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You can type everything in for free. Or you can pay DDB to do it for you. That's the decision you get to make. You don't have to buy the books again if you don't want to.
To stay on topic, what DDB is offering you is two different things. You can get an e-book copy of the physical books that you can read online or on your mobile device. You can also get the character generator, the database that lets you look up monsters/spells/feats, etc. You can get them together or separately. In my case, I bought both of them because both of them are useful to me above and beyond the physical books. I like being able to flip through the entirety of my collection on a single device when I'm stuck waiting somewhere, and I love the ability to look up spells and monsters instantly using the tools without having to dig through a stack of hardbacks. That was worth the purchase price to me. I don't feel like I had to pay for the same product twice.
Angryfan, with your comments, it doesn't sound like DDB is for you. Don't feel bad, it is not for everyone. Sorry you paid FULL MSRP PRICE for digital at that other place. When Curse came along with DDB, they negotiated that price down to compete with Amazon and other physical places, as a side effect, Roll20 and FG could offer it at the same price. You know what, it took Roll20 awhile to finally bring that price down. As far as integration, WOTC released 5e with no intention of going digital. Curse came to WOTC and wanted to create the platform, so they said yes, but to keep it fair, they had to use a license model same as they do with everyone else. Unless you want them to have lawsuits against them for basically creating a monopoly with one of their customers and pushing everyone else out? And why is it a 'shit business plan'? maybe because you already own physical and some digital ? If you had nothing then this is a great deal. If you own a business that sells to retailers, should they change their whole platform just because a new customer comes along? Sorry DDB is not for you.
Kreakdude, I already pointed out here your own words that you are not here for DDB, you are here to protest against WOTC and since they are not listening to you, you came here because we are active.
As for DDB2, I would assume that means we have D&D 6e and yes, we would have to buy new books, same as if you had physical books. However, that is when WotC could possibly start with a rotating Digital license that works among all digital platforms or a possible discount to the digital platform that would be fair to all. Or perhaps a D&D 5.5, but i am sure for now they are going to stay the course.
As I have said before, if you truly have a problem with the licensing model, then talk to WOTC, not DDB. Only WOTC can change it.
For the record, I own both Physical and DDB legendary bundle.
I just want to tell everyone "happy gaming" and actually mean it. Whatever your game is, just have fun with it, it is after all, just a game.
Can you actually get access to content in the character builder without having bought the compendium? For example, the PHB compendium costs $20. The PHB compendium + character builder access costs $30. Can I just pay $10 and bypass the compendium content? (something you'd want to do if you already have access to the content but don't have the ability to use it in the character builder).
Yes buy just the pieces you want. There isn't a "tools" purchase option but you could for instance buy the "feats" and the "backgrounds" and the "subclasses" and the "races" have pretty much any non spell casting class of the Players Handbook. You could then buy the "spells" (I think) since I've bought the books themselves I can't see the portions anymore or the price.
There were several books that I bought the races and backgrounds separately and then later bought the full version because I found being able to read the text worth it but I can't see a reason a user couldn't buy what the wanted on the tools occasionally make their own on the homebrew tools if it seemed easy enough to save the money. Honestly, I've found DnDBeyond's willingness to make the homebrew tools free and the ability to be incredibly hobby friendly.
I purchased the books even though I owned in Hardback PHB, DMG, MM and Xanathars because I wanted to support them and find the insults laid towards them of them being abusive of the customers shocking, irritating and entitled to a truly amazing degree. DnD isn't even my primary game but when I decide to play DnD I decided it was worth the cost.
I can speak from experience that yes, you can. I had bought all character creation options in January 2018. I did not buy any compendium content until I purchased the Legendary bundle, in March 2018.
For the period in-between, I had full access in the character builder.
I am curious what the 28 sources in the Bundle are as I only count 22 in the abstract. Further, I have picked up all but Tortle ($10) and Eberron ($20) which total $30 left to pick up, yet the Bundle in my Marketplace reflects I still have $70 worth of content I could pick up. It doesn't tell me what that content is and I am curious.
Anyone have a content listing for what is actually in the Bundle?
Gray Mouser
I believe that the Tales from the Yawning Portal adventures are considered separate, don't hold me to it, though.
Ah....yes, that would do it.... 21+7 = 28! Although the $69.30 remaining to purchase $30 of books (at list) remains a mystery.
Gray Mouser
Kreakdude, your purchase of a physical PHB didn't come with a character builder.
The DDB Character Builder can be used for free with all the content from the SRD.
You can add in any of the non-SRD material yourself (except for classes atm) using the homebrew, and use it with the character builder for free.
The physical PHB is not comparable to full PHB with character builder. It is comparable to the Compendium with no character builder.
Physical PHB + no character builder = $49.95
DDB Compendium + no character builder = $19.99
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Yeah, the reason I'm asking isn't to make an apples to apples comparison, we've already done that a lot. I think it would be lame if I have paid for access to content in some form (physical, roll20, FG, w/e) and DDB has this cool character builder but in order to use it you have to buy ACCESS to the same content again in order to use that content to which you already had access with the character builder. (buy or data entry which is even more lame)
Btw, how can you buy just character builder access without buying compendium access? Also, even if you can really can do this I think this is still so far a bad buying experience that this situation is made to be so confusing. Still though, allowing us to buy just character builder access without compendium access (even if it's confusing or hidden) is still better than not allowing it at all.
So taking the DMG pricing as an example it is $30 for compendium & character builder. $20 for only compendium. The sum of the Individual Purchases is $20 ... is that the character builder access only? If so, $20 is the value of the compendium and $20 is also the value of the character builder access. Essentially they cap you at $30 so if you buy both you get the 2nd one half off.