If a cleric decides to switch Domains and perhaps deities like say from Grave Domain to Death Domain, is there any mechanical change other than changing the Domain's bonus spells? I can't imagine a 9th level character would suddenly revert to a level 1 Cleric aside from perhaps hit points. Thanks
There is no RAW mechanic for switching domains. Deities do not determine domains (and vice versa) so you can switch a deity without it impacting your domain.
Only way to switch a domain is to have a DM willing to homebrew a mechanism for such - but I would only do that as a DM if I was also willing to let all other characters have a method for changing their subclass, which isn't likely.
Mechanically? As stated above, no there's no change in switching either Deity/Domain.
Personally, my DM let me swap from Life Domain to Forge Domain. He did so because, at the time Life was the only option, and I went into 5E thinking that you NEED a life domain heal bot cleric. He saw I wasn't having as much fun, we talked and he allowed me to swap.
There's nothing wrong with that, you want players to enjoy themselves, and if that means changing to a different domain? Let them. Make it a quest if you want in which they "find their true selves" or some such. At the end of the day, the game is about having fun and enjoying it.
In terms of the RP, which is what I look at first, I would say that switching to another domain of the same deity, I would probably allow without any major issue. There would need to be RP about it, and after the RP is over with, new domain, easy peasy.
Switching deities... RP wise... to me that is a very dangerous thing to do. Deities tend to be pretty possessive of worshipers, and especially their clerics. After all, they have given you all these divine powers for all these adventures and now you are going to just turn your back on them and go to one of the other deities in their pantheon? (Or worse, a deity in another whole pantheon altogether, depending on the world!) I can't see a deity, RP-wise, letting that switch go uncontested. I imagine there might be some payback -- and since it's a deity, some pretty nasty payback, depending on which god we are talking about. I could see Ares punishing you, for example, by having a war start against your homeland. Or Zeus sending some lightning bolts your way.... Worse, they could take it out on your new patron, and a cosmic war could start between Zeus and Artemis or whoever your new patron is. If the cleric is high enough level and important enough, that is.
There is also the question, is the new deity going to accept you? In addition to risking majorly P-O'ing another member of the pantheon (or worse, someone from another pantheon, which could provoke an inter-mythos war), you've now demonstrated a pretty appalling lack of loyalty and gratitude toward your patron deity. What's to say you aren't going to ditch Demeter just like you ditched Hera, or Zeus just like you ditched Anubis?
I think there would need to be some major justification here, and some pretty intense RP, before I'm going to allow a cleric to switch patrons. That is, allow it and the cleric keeps their power. Switching and losing power because no god will answer you anymore, that I would allow... but the player probably wouldn't want that sort of thing.
For Deities, are you going for one that fits the more traditional forgotten realm/D&D pantheons? Or would you be open to real world deities. Also, are you wanting a more evil and chaotic deity or more lawful and neutral one?
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These are great for party dynamic development in character driven campaigns. Resolution should require a minimum of a short side quest but might develop into a full blown adventure in its own right, depending on the DM & party.
As a DM, I run it like this: when the divine Caster declares loss of absolute faith in the source of their divine spells, they immediately lose the domain granted channel divinity. The next day when they go to select spells, they discover they no longer have access to Domain spells, and can't choose spells of their highest slot level above 2. (Total number of slots is unaffected.) Each succeeding day their maximum spell level reduces by one to a minimum of spell level 2, until they atone or successfuly petition a new diety (persuasion check) at a place of worship appropriate to the new diety.
A drastic change in Domain should require a significant downtime investment, (I'm talking months here,) but a change between related dieties/domains should be accomplishable in a matter of days.
Once resolved, the new Channel divinity immediately becomes available, as does the new Domain spell list and spell level access to higher level spells returns by one spell level per day.
Ideally, proficiencies and cantrips gained from the original Domain shouldn't be lost as the Domain features fade, nor should the new Domain grant such features. You'll need to customize your character sheet to reflect such changes.
However you choose to resolve a Crisis of Faith, the character should be unable to level up in the class until the crisis is resolved. XP gained can either be held in reserve for application to the class after resolution or applied to a different class. Discuss these options with your DM to see what fits best for you and your party.
Switching deities... RP wise... to me that is a very dangerous thing to do. Deities tend to be pretty possessive of worshipers, and especially their clerics.
If we are agnostic (pardon the pun) on the setting, then there is nothing dangerous about switching your patron deity - as clerics don't even need a deity to receive their powers (I know, seems sacrilegious (sorry, pardon the pun again), but such is RAW).
I miss the days when deities had their own portfolio. Made for more interesting characters - and of course deities actually mattered under those rules. Now you can be a NG Elvish Forge cleric that worships Umberlee and it is all hunky dory.
So the reason this came up was because I am currently a Grave Domain Cleric and if I were to become corrupted by some of the forces in the game I was wondering about becoming a Death Domain Cleric. As it happens, the way the DM is running it, both would serve the same Deity as it is the Goddess of Death and entropy. Technically it would not really be swapping deities per se in this homebrew setting but it would be realigning eventual goals and aspirations as well as some domain specific spells and abilities. I wasn't sure beyond RPing the character evolution if there were elements within the RAW that I needed to be aware of. I don't know that it would happen, it just came up as we were discussing options of character development based on backstory, character motivations, and emotional tone of what I was aiming for as the character has a troubled past and is a Chromatic Dragonborn which this campaign would mean there is a tendency towards the danger of evil inside of him not to mention the lack of trust that most people have in green draconic individuals.
Death Domain is usually limited to NPCs, (note Domain is listed in the DMG, not PH,) BUT can be used as a player option at the DMs discretion.
I've let players use it occasionally, but it really is a little overpowered compared to other Domains. I believe the reason the Grave Domain was instituted was to bridge the gap between players that wanted the death Domain but their DMs said, "nope, too powerful."
As a DM though, your character is one that i would be likely to allow it. As you point out, evil leanings, already a servant of a death god...
Still, a change of Domain should require some time, especially if you're of higher level. RL example: a Jesuit priest leaves the Jesuit order to become a Dominican priest. He still worships the same god, still operates under the same greater authority, but The Way Things Are Done is different. It takes a little time to adjust to the changes.
With a change from grave to death, the focus of the character changes. You're going from being a defense/support character to an offense character. You lose armor proficiency, gain weapon proficiency, your CD changes to a damage+ instead of a damageX, (significantly weaker IMO,) and your spell list changes a bit.
I'd probably require an extra flaw, something like "the stench of death," and as a DM, I'd expect a change in how you roleplay your character.
As for RAW, i believe this is uncharted territory, intentionally left open for the DM to figure out on their own.
If it's the same deity, you could easily just pray to that deity for the switch and assuming you have been a good little servant (or in this case, evil little servant) the deity would probably grant it.
I have way more trouble with switching gods than switching domains, in terms of the RP and it making sense.
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If a cleric decides to switch Domains and perhaps deities like say from Grave Domain to Death Domain, is there any mechanical change other than changing the Domain's bonus spells? I can't imagine a 9th level character would suddenly revert to a level 1 Cleric aside from perhaps hit points. Thanks
All of their subclass features would also change to match the new domain.
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There is no RAW mechanic for switching domains. Deities do not determine domains (and vice versa) so you can switch a deity without it impacting your domain.
Only way to switch a domain is to have a DM willing to homebrew a mechanism for such - but I would only do that as a DM if I was also willing to let all other characters have a method for changing their subclass, which isn't likely.
Mechanically? As stated above, no there's no change in switching either Deity/Domain.
Personally, my DM let me swap from Life Domain to Forge Domain. He did so because, at the time Life was the only option, and I went into 5E thinking that you NEED a life domain heal bot cleric. He saw I wasn't having as much fun, we talked and he allowed me to swap.
There's nothing wrong with that, you want players to enjoy themselves, and if that means changing to a different domain? Let them. Make it a quest if you want in which they "find their true selves" or some such. At the end of the day, the game is about having fun and enjoying it.
Just my two cents.
In terms of the RP, which is what I look at first, I would say that switching to another domain of the same deity, I would probably allow without any major issue. There would need to be RP about it, and after the RP is over with, new domain, easy peasy.
Switching deities... RP wise... to me that is a very dangerous thing to do. Deities tend to be pretty possessive of worshipers, and especially their clerics. After all, they have given you all these divine powers for all these adventures and now you are going to just turn your back on them and go to one of the other deities in their pantheon? (Or worse, a deity in another whole pantheon altogether, depending on the world!) I can't see a deity, RP-wise, letting that switch go uncontested. I imagine there might be some payback -- and since it's a deity, some pretty nasty payback, depending on which god we are talking about. I could see Ares punishing you, for example, by having a war start against your homeland. Or Zeus sending some lightning bolts your way.... Worse, they could take it out on your new patron, and a cosmic war could start between Zeus and Artemis or whoever your new patron is. If the cleric is high enough level and important enough, that is.
There is also the question, is the new deity going to accept you? In addition to risking majorly P-O'ing another member of the pantheon (or worse, someone from another pantheon, which could provoke an inter-mythos war), you've now demonstrated a pretty appalling lack of loyalty and gratitude toward your patron deity. What's to say you aren't going to ditch Demeter just like you ditched Hera, or Zeus just like you ditched Anubis?
I think there would need to be some major justification here, and some pretty intense RP, before I'm going to allow a cleric to switch patrons. That is, allow it and the cleric keeps their power. Switching and losing power because no god will answer you anymore, that I would allow... but the player probably wouldn't want that sort of thing.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
For Deities, are you going for one that fits the more traditional forgotten realm/D&D pantheons? Or would you be open to real world deities. Also, are you wanting a more evil and chaotic deity or more lawful and neutral one?
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
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Ah, the Crisis of Faith.
These are great for party dynamic development in character driven campaigns. Resolution should require a minimum of a short side quest but might develop into a full blown adventure in its own right, depending on the DM & party.
As a DM, I run it like this: when the divine Caster declares loss of absolute faith in the source of their divine spells, they immediately lose the domain granted channel divinity. The next day when they go to select spells, they discover they no longer have access to Domain spells, and can't choose spells of their highest slot level above 2. (Total number of slots is unaffected.) Each succeeding day their maximum spell level reduces by one to a minimum of spell level 2, until they atone or successfuly petition a new diety (persuasion check) at a place of worship appropriate to the new diety.
A drastic change in Domain should require a significant downtime investment, (I'm talking months here,) but a change between related dieties/domains should be accomplishable in a matter of days.
Once resolved, the new Channel divinity immediately becomes available, as does the new Domain spell list and spell level access to higher level spells returns by one spell level per day.
Ideally, proficiencies and cantrips gained from the original Domain shouldn't be lost as the Domain features fade, nor should the new Domain grant such features. You'll need to customize your character sheet to reflect such changes.
However you choose to resolve a Crisis of Faith, the character should be unable to level up in the class until the crisis is resolved. XP gained can either be held in reserve for application to the class after resolution or applied to a different class. Discuss these options with your DM to see what fits best for you and your party.
If we are agnostic (pardon the pun) on the setting, then there is nothing dangerous about switching your patron deity - as clerics don't even need a deity to receive their powers (I know, seems sacrilegious (sorry, pardon the pun again), but such is RAW).
I miss the days when deities had their own portfolio. Made for more interesting characters - and of course deities actually mattered under those rules. Now you can be a NG Elvish Forge cleric that worships Umberlee and it is all hunky dory.
So the reason this came up was because I am currently a Grave Domain Cleric and if I were to become corrupted by some of the forces in the game I was wondering about becoming a Death Domain Cleric. As it happens, the way the DM is running it, both would serve the same Deity as it is the Goddess of Death and entropy. Technically it would not really be swapping deities per se in this homebrew setting but it would be realigning eventual goals and aspirations as well as some domain specific spells and abilities. I wasn't sure beyond RPing the character evolution if there were elements within the RAW that I needed to be aware of. I don't know that it would happen, it just came up as we were discussing options of character development based on backstory, character motivations, and emotional tone of what I was aiming for as the character has a troubled past and is a Chromatic Dragonborn which this campaign would mean there is a tendency towards the danger of evil inside of him not to mention the lack of trust that most people have in green draconic individuals.
Death Domain is usually limited to NPCs, (note Domain is listed in the DMG, not PH,) BUT can be used as a player option at the DMs discretion.
I've let players use it occasionally, but it really is a little overpowered compared to other Domains. I believe the reason the Grave Domain was instituted was to bridge the gap between players that wanted the death Domain but their DMs said, "nope, too powerful."
As a DM though, your character is one that i would be likely to allow it. As you point out, evil leanings, already a servant of a death god...
Still, a change of Domain should require some time, especially if you're of higher level. RL example: a Jesuit priest leaves the Jesuit order to become a Dominican priest. He still worships the same god, still operates under the same greater authority, but The Way Things Are Done is different. It takes a little time to adjust to the changes.
With a change from grave to death, the focus of the character changes. You're going from being a defense/support character to an offense character. You lose armor proficiency, gain weapon proficiency, your CD changes to a damage+ instead of a damageX, (significantly weaker IMO,) and your spell list changes a bit.
I'd probably require an extra flaw, something like "the stench of death," and as a DM, I'd expect a change in how you roleplay your character.
As for RAW, i believe this is uncharted territory, intentionally left open for the DM to figure out on their own.
If it's the same deity, you could easily just pray to that deity for the switch and assuming you have been a good little servant (or in this case, evil little servant) the deity would probably grant it.
I have way more trouble with switching gods than switching domains, in terms of the RP and it making sense.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.