I was thinking about using the great Modron March in my campaign. I have a simple question. What is the goal of the March? I want suggestions here. I want it to be a goal rather than something like releasing energy or a purge of modrons or something like that. I tend to be bad at this so I wanted help. Thanks in advance!
I wouldn't try to understand the mind of Anu. Pure Logic might seem like insanity to the rest of us. (To jump across fandoms, even Spock wept to experience a mind of pure Logic.)
I think the reasons shouldn't seem to make sense if any reasons are necessary. Logically if a being won't understand your logic, it's a waste of time to explain it. My understanding is that the March simply moves through a specific path through the Planes, unflinchingly regardless of any obstacles, and the path is determined per Great March and will not be changed, but...
What if something was able to affect the perfect logic of the March? What if something introduced a flaw into the design of the March and the Modrons deviated to disastrous results?
Then, you have something to work with that flawed mere Mortals can understand. You can create villains, methods, and intentions that make sense against the unknowable purpose of Anu.
Who meddled with the March? Was it an accident? Was it intentional? Are the results what the meddler wanted to achieve? Why? Is there a way to fix it? Should it be fixed or should it be further deviated or should one just withstand the flood of Modrons until the 17-year March is done? Has the March failed to cease on schedule and it's now unending? Will Anu and the forces of Mechanus try to do anything about it?
I think of the March like a self-driving car. By itself, it just does what it's told to do. Throw people into the mix and everything becomes unpredictable, sometimes to terrible results.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The goal is to gather information. If you have perfect information and the universe follows unbreakable laws, then you can predict with almost perfect accuracy what's going to happen, so they only do it once in a while, as a redundancy, to make certain nothing new has cropped up and set anything out of order. It's the universe's 5,000 mile tune-up.
I think the simplest answer would be... there's something new and powerful that has suddenly come into existance, and the Modrons are investigating it. Maybe they're following a ley line leading to a newly created tower that houses some cosmic energy source that has suddenly appeared in the material plane. Can the Modrons be reasoned with to assist the party in the name of completing their mission? Are the Modrons too alien and distant to be perceived as anything but a marching, single-minded force? Who or what is capable of harnessing an energy source powerful enough to draw the attention of Primus? The possibilities are endless... as a late-game adventure, this could be a quest to battle a powerful interdimensional being who has worked their way into the material plane. As an earlier adventure, maybe they're coming across a bumbling wizard who, through a combination of luck and access to resources he didnt' fully understand, accidentally opened a rift and he needs the adventurer's help to seal it, with the Modron's potentially being an obstacle that needs to be overcome, or a resource that can aid the party in accomplishing their task, depending on if they can work with the alien logic that drives the strange creatures.
Ultimately, the true goal of the March is unknown but most believe it is to gather information about the planes. If you're interested in the March as a campaign focus, you should take a look at the classic Planescape adventure The Great Modron March if you haven't already: https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/17302
I think the March is ultimately about killing all non-logical beings, and especially beings who have broken the divine law. At least, that’s how I’m DMing it for my LV20 cosmology-based campaign
I've been thinking of this very event, trying to place what it might mean in my world. I think it's a way for the modrons to gain experience in warfare and boost their numbers.
Most seem to leave them alone, and when the inevitable war against chaos erupts, Optimus needs his people ready.
Plus, since dying anywhere other than their home plane isn't permanent, and a new modron is spawned when one "dies", this might be their method of reproduction.
Again, who can really know why? Yet, the what is the more important issue facing the planes.
According to lore while an incredibly massive army leaves Mechanus, only a few dozen ever return. The whole thing seems pointless to everyone, but Anu does everything with a logical reason which might not make any sense to illogical beings.
The army follows a path and will not deviate (but this doesn't completely preclude the possibility of exceptions—many adventures begin due to some out-of-the-ordinary [extraordinary] event). It seems that they are only hostile to those who get in their way, which can be a problem if their path takes them through towns, forts, or other kinds of settlements. Why Anu would determine a path that could be destructive in that cycle is anyone's guess. It doesn't appear that the seemingly random destruction is the important part, but it's possible that it is.
Is Anu making an adjustment to the planes as it deems necessary? Is Anu trying to collect information at any cost (which is the more common assumption)? Is it a test and, if so, what is Anu testing?
Is it training and, if so, why do Modrons who simply obey instructions need training? They don't improvise. EDIT: How does a meandering path provide training if a direct path to training scenarios makes more sense to us? Retreating, evasion, and recovery are valid training tactics, but the Great March never does that. They simply keep going and will listen to no pleas or reasons. Tactical reasons appear to be absent. (Maybe, they're there but not comprehensible to us.)
Is it some combination of all of that? If so, why?
These are questions only Anu could answer and, logically, wouldn't bother to answer if the interrogator wouldn't understand the answer—which is likely—unless giving a response to the person asking will achieve a desired result, truth or otherwise. Anu is logic, but an embodiment of pure logic is just incomprehensible. There is no such thing as pure objectivity in the rest of us. We'll never achieve the state of pure logic as long as we have biases, and we all have biases even just from limited experiences alone. If Anu determines that we need to receive a reason, we couldn't trust that we would interpret it correctly or that Anu would answer us honestly. A lie can serve a logical purpose, too, if it encourages a desired result.
I still suggest, deal with the what and not the why. Any why will be an assumption on our part and not necessarily (or even likely) the real reason.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
There some good ideas here. Know the what is a big deal, and if you have some idea of the why, that's good too.
My suggestion is to do what works with you, as you will be representing it to the group. For me, modrons are not constructs, nor are they pure logic, but present themselves as such. Coming up with the what/why they do something for yourself takes practice.
OP: What/why do you think modrons march? Or rather, why does Primus make them?
I would like to add, you have something that forces the March to deviate from its given course, and maybe even this was planned for to bring some sort of balance, or specifically draws the adventurers to complete a purpose of Anus choice. If you are extremely logical it is only logical to use an appropriate tool or agent when other means are barred to you. As a being of order there may be things outside the capabilities that they need more fluid mortals to influence.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
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I was thinking about using the great Modron March in my campaign. I have a simple question. What is the goal of the March? I want suggestions here. I want it to be a goal rather than something like releasing energy or a purge of modrons or something like that. I tend to be bad at this so I wanted help. Thanks in advance!
I wouldn't try to understand the mind of Anu. Pure Logic might seem like insanity to the rest of us. (To jump across fandoms, even Spock wept to experience a mind of pure Logic.)
I think the reasons shouldn't seem to make sense if any reasons are necessary. Logically if a being won't understand your logic, it's a waste of time to explain it. My understanding is that the March simply moves through a specific path through the Planes, unflinchingly regardless of any obstacles, and the path is determined per Great March and will not be changed, but...
What if something was able to affect the perfect logic of the March? What if something introduced a flaw into the design of the March and the Modrons deviated to disastrous results?
Then, you have something to work with that flawed mere Mortals can understand. You can create villains, methods, and intentions that make sense against the unknowable purpose of Anu.
Who meddled with the March? Was it an accident? Was it intentional? Are the results what the meddler wanted to achieve? Why? Is there a way to fix it? Should it be fixed or should it be further deviated or should one just withstand the flood of Modrons until the 17-year March is done? Has the March failed to cease on schedule and it's now unending? Will Anu and the forces of Mechanus try to do anything about it?
I think of the March like a self-driving car. By itself, it just does what it's told to do. Throw people into the mix and everything becomes unpredictable, sometimes to terrible results.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I have always thought that Primus would make a pretty cool warlock patron. I never took the time to finish off a strict order-based sublcass homebrew.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The goal is to gather information. If you have perfect information and the universe follows unbreakable laws, then you can predict with almost perfect accuracy what's going to happen, so they only do it once in a while, as a redundancy, to make certain nothing new has cropped up and set anything out of order. It's the universe's 5,000 mile tune-up.
I think the simplest answer would be... there's something new and powerful that has suddenly come into existance, and the Modrons are investigating it. Maybe they're following a ley line leading to a newly created tower that houses some cosmic energy source that has suddenly appeared in the material plane. Can the Modrons be reasoned with to assist the party in the name of completing their mission? Are the Modrons too alien and distant to be perceived as anything but a marching, single-minded force? Who or what is capable of harnessing an energy source powerful enough to draw the attention of Primus? The possibilities are endless... as a late-game adventure, this could be a quest to battle a powerful interdimensional being who has worked their way into the material plane. As an earlier adventure, maybe they're coming across a bumbling wizard who, through a combination of luck and access to resources he didnt' fully understand, accidentally opened a rift and he needs the adventurer's help to seal it, with the Modron's potentially being an obstacle that needs to be overcome, or a resource that can aid the party in accomplishing their task, depending on if they can work with the alien logic that drives the strange creatures.
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Ultimately, the true goal of the March is unknown but most believe it is to gather information about the planes. If you're interested in the March as a campaign focus, you should take a look at the classic Planescape adventure The Great Modron March if you haven't already: https://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/17302
I think the March is ultimately about killing all non-logical beings, and especially beings who have broken the divine law. At least, that’s how I’m DMing it for my LV20 cosmology-based campaign
Now for one more opinion.
I've been thinking of this very event, trying to place what it might mean in my world. I think it's a way for the modrons to gain experience in warfare and boost their numbers.
Most seem to leave them alone, and when the inevitable war against chaos erupts, Optimus needs his people ready.
Plus, since dying anywhere other than their home plane isn't permanent, and a new modron is spawned when one "dies", this might be their method of reproduction.
This is the idea I'm currently fleshing out.
Again, who can really know why? Yet, the what is the more important issue facing the planes.
According to lore while an incredibly massive army leaves Mechanus, only a few dozen ever return. The whole thing seems pointless to everyone, but Anu does everything with a logical reason which might not make any sense to illogical beings.
The army follows a path and will not deviate (but this doesn't completely preclude the possibility of exceptions—many adventures begin due to some out-of-the-ordinary [extraordinary] event). It seems that they are only hostile to those who get in their way, which can be a problem if their path takes them through towns, forts, or other kinds of settlements. Why Anu would determine a path that could be destructive in that cycle is anyone's guess. It doesn't appear that the seemingly random destruction is the important part, but it's possible that it is.
Is Anu making an adjustment to the planes as it deems necessary?
Is Anu trying to collect information at any cost (which is the more common assumption)?
Is it a test and, if so, what is Anu testing?
Is it training and, if so, why do Modrons who simply obey instructions need training? They don't improvise. EDIT: How does a meandering path provide training if a direct path to training scenarios makes more sense to us? Retreating, evasion, and recovery are valid training tactics, but the Great March never does that. They simply keep going and will listen to no pleas or reasons. Tactical reasons appear to be absent. (Maybe, they're there but not comprehensible to us.)
Is it some combination of all of that? If so, why?
These are questions only Anu could answer and, logically, wouldn't bother to answer if the interrogator wouldn't understand the answer—which is likely—unless giving a response to the person asking will achieve a desired result, truth or otherwise. Anu is logic, but an embodiment of pure logic is just incomprehensible. There is no such thing as pure objectivity in the rest of us. We'll never achieve the state of pure logic as long as we have biases, and we all have biases even just from limited experiences alone. If Anu determines that we need to receive a reason, we couldn't trust that we would interpret it correctly or that Anu would answer us honestly. A lie can serve a logical purpose, too, if it encourages a desired result.
I still suggest, deal with the what and not the why. Any why will be an assumption on our part and not necessarily (or even likely) the real reason.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
There some good ideas here. Know the what is a big deal, and if you have some idea of the why, that's good too.
My suggestion is to do what works with you, as you will be representing it to the group. For me, modrons are not constructs, nor are they pure logic, but present themselves as such. Coming up with the what/why they do something for yourself takes practice.
OP: What/why do you think modrons march? Or rather, why does Primus make them?
I would like to add, you have something that forces the March to deviate from its given course, and maybe even this was planned for to bring some sort of balance, or specifically draws the adventurers to complete a purpose of Anus choice. If you are extremely logical it is only logical to use an appropriate tool or agent when other means are barred to you. As a being of order there may be things outside the capabilities that they need more fluid mortals to influence.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."