Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Suppose a PC takes the ready attack action, that action is triggered and they attack an enemy (or maybe technically, they take their reaction since a triggered ready action is a reaction). Here's the question: after this attack action (again, or reaction), as a DM do you roll initiative to determine who attacks next, or is it the enemy's turn to attack?
If you can point me to the RAW about how this series of events is supposed to run, even better. TIA
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
I agree. So does this mean that after the attack action triggered by the ready action, the enemy gets the option to attack or are you supposed to roll initiative?
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
Neither one. You roll initiative before the attack action that would be triggered by the ready action.
It's a wooly area, there is no hard writing for the interaction, but the usual result I go for is immediately roll for initiative, and then proceed as if it is halfway through the turn of the person who triggered the ready action.
If the party wants to ambush, then they need to plan ahead and all ready an action. If only one person does and that means it skips someone - such are the penalties of not communicating!
Initiative should already have been rolled at the start of the combat. Then, say player A (initiative count 10) readies an attack if an enemy comes within his reach.
The enemy (on count 9) runs up to the player A’s character.
Player A’s readied action will trigger and they make their attack, which will be resolved normally.
Then after the readied action is resolved, the enemy will continue with their turn. The enemy might choose to continue moving, or attack the character, or whatever else the enemy can do.
Honestly, while I understand some of the decisions Wizards made on initiative, it still winds up a bit strange.
lots of people are saying different things. And some of it is counterintuitive, eg, roll initiative before a readied action is triggered. (Then what’s the point of ever readying an action?) Is this situation described in the rules? If not, it seems like DM’s decision
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
The thing to consider, which is how I do it, is that initiative or not, things are happening in turns. It's just that in non-combat scenarios, most turns only involve moving and talking.
So the idea of "combat only actions" doesn't work for me, because D&D to me is supposed to be about freedom - the rules should cover doing anything you can do, not restrict you so that you can't.
Technically you could roll initiative as soon as someone says "I ready an action to...", but that might mean a lot of trawling through six-second increments whilst saying "do you still...", and everyone else saying "I'll ready an action too, as we're in initiative".
So I imagine the world is in initiative order anyway, and that we won't know that order until it's rolled, which is only done when it matters. So if someone says "If he steps out of the group, I shoot", and then he steps out of the group, that is the whenabouts that I will call for an initiative roll. Given that the whole set of events, "he moved>I shoot" is going to go off either way, it doesn't matter if you resolve the attack and then roll initiative, or if you roll initiative then roll the attack. What's important is where we freeze time to go to initiative, and that is during the triggering person's turn, as they do their movement or whatever action they do to cause combat to initiate.
So let's say the relevant dude rolls a 10, the readied attacker rolls a 3, and the group rolls a 22 for initiative. We join the action at the moment in which the relevant dude has started moving on his turn, and the attacker's readied action resolves, and now it's the rest of the relevant dude's turn. Then it will be the attacker's turn, and then the group's turn.
Another way to approach it is that readying an attack is an openly hostile action, and triggers initiative. It's the equivalent of pointing a crossbow at someone, or raising a sword ready to swing. You can't casually ready an attack, so doing so initiates combat, starting on your turn, and likely turns conversations sour.
Does it mean people who roll highly might miss the chance to ready an attack of their own? sometimes, but initiative is meant to reflect the uncertainty of combat anyway.
Regarding the point of readying an action if you can't do this - it's to counter many an effect. A burrowing creature, so you eady an attack to swing if it pops up. A creature in cover, popping out, shooting, and then hiding, so you ready an action to shoot when they pop out. A party popping out of the tiny hut to fire off magic then darting back in, so you ready an action to whack that mole. An enemy is running into the trap you set, with your ally as bait, and you ready an action to trip them as they run past. You are in negotiations with an evil wizard, so you ready an action to use word of recall the second he starts casting a spell. An ally is about to leap from a flaming roof, and you ready an action to dive out of a window to catch them as they fall. An ally is limping towards you, but is out of reach on your turn, so you ready an action to heal them when they get within range.
Anyone who has not used ready actions has been fighting in too small spaces, against too predictable enemies!
This is fair and seems intuitive (or at least doesn't seem unintuitive).
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s, took a 40 year hiatus, re-started with 3.5 and 5e in 2023
It is not intended that you ever ready an action outside of combat -- "I attack them when they come through the door" is resolved through the surprise and initiative rules, not as readied actions.
BG3 plays pretty loose with the rules at times. Honestly, the initiative rules should probably be rewritten or house ruled because they tend to result in weird time warp effects where you decide to do something, roll badly on initiative, and everyone else divines ahead of time that you were planning on doing that thing and takes appropriate reactions.
This thread brings me memories of this one: Would a hidden enemy get an attack in before combat starts, if he was readying an action for it?
RAW, it's as @Pantagruel666 said. Everyone should roll for initiative and then, if the player wants, should take the Ready action on their turn.
I'll leave this recommendation here from the 2024 DMG, if it's interesting for the OP:
Ready action is taken during combat. You don't ready an action outside of combat. The entire combat sequence has been simplified for he point it is counterintuitive.
If a PC or monster plans to attack, you roll initiative. If one side is surprised, they have disadvantage on the roll. If the person you are attacking somehow acts before you in initiative it is assumed by the game rules they noticed that you were about to attack.
Basically you can't ready an action outside of combat.
What is weird is whether or not the player has even cast the spell yet. And if they do, do they lose the spell slots if it no longer makes sense to use the spell?
So, say you go to cast chromatic orb and roll a 1. Doppelganger casts antimagic field and another monster makes your speed 0.
In pure logic you should be casting the chromatic orb at the doppelganger, but the orb no longer affects the doppelganger could you change targets?
Technically you couldn't even have cast counterspell on the antimagic field because they would have broken the concentration on chromatic orb.
I feel like they need to add a surprise round back in to handle this
"I shoot the guys when they open the door." is a classic move that is pretty common. But fails miserably with initiative rolls.
player - "I shoot the guys when they open the door."
GM - "Roll initiative"
Bad guys roll high, open the door, toss in a flaming oil flask and close the door.
GM -"You still want to shoot the bad guys if they open the door?"
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I think the bad guys would come out the door and roll disadvantage for their initiative. Which could result in the Bad guys going first stil...But at least less likely.
Yeah, RAW is a valid scenario. They roll with disadvantage, though, as @bhthephoenix said, if they are surprised. If not... then initiative was already rolled because the combat started.
I read it differently, just an intention at that moment.
Your intention is to cast the spell, but the same applies if, for example, you're pointing at an enemy with your sword or bow in an interrogatory. If, after rolling initiative with Advantage, the enemy goes before you, then on your turn, you're not obliged to cast the spell, attack with the sword, or shoot with the bow, because you realize on your turn that you didn't sleep well that day, and you're feeling slow :D
But I understand this is debatable.
I disagree, actions are not limited to combat. You can cast Action spells outside of combat, you can take the Attack action outside of combat, you can Dash outside of combat, etc.. etc... you can also Ready actions outside of combat. For instance, if everyone gets together to lift a piano all together they are readying their actions to lift. If someone is holding their bow taught to shoot anyone that comes through a door, they are readying their action to attack. If someone is holding a sword to an NPCs throat they are readying their action to Attack them.
"Actions" ARE limited to combat. Telling the DM what you want to do and having the DM resolve it happens all the time, in or out of combat, making use of character abilities and features or not.
In combat, features and abilities usually require actions, bonus actions, reactions - out of combat, the character uses their ability but since there is no need for actions, bonus actions or reactions outside of combat, the DM just resolves the effect of the player activity.
The problem with initiative is that it is done for simplicity and not to necessarily make sense.
The problematic scenario is:
- A character decides to do something that will initiate a conflict ... whether this is combat or perhaps some sort of social conflict OR any other situation that should be resolved in order.
RAW, everyone rolls initiative (in the 2024 rules, advantage or disadvantage may be applied to these rolls depending on whether the creatures were aware/surprised).
The problem is that the character who indicated that they would do something out of combat, which was the trigger for rolling initiative, may decide to not take that Action when their turn arrives in the initiative order, likely because it no longer makes any sense at all. The question then becomes, why did the conflict start if the triggering event that caused it never happened?
- narratively, some folks just say that the character gave some indication of the activity they were planning and this resulted in all the other creatures reacting to the intent rather than the actual event. This is fine in some cases but falls flat when the triggering activity is something that can not be seen or sensed or otherwise known. A decent example is a sorcerer casting a subtle spell. The entire point of this is to cast a spell without being noticed so that no one knows who cast the spell or even if a spell was cast. How can a subtly cast fireball start a combat when no creature there can know it is about to happen? (Some DMs go for 6th sense of creatures let them know something was happening but personally, I don't like what feels like gamey or unrealistic solutions that every creature in the game might be psychic and know when something bad is about to happen).
So ... this is where many DMs introduce house rules of one sort or another.
In my case, if a character plans to trigger a conflict and others might be unaware that it will happen, then I'll have everyone roll initiative but when it is a character's turn to act they can only decide what to do based on what the character is aware of - this requires a bit of buy in from the players - but if nothing is happening then the character will usually just continue to do whatever they were doing. When the initiative of the character triggering the event comes around, they take their stated trigger action and initiative after that point proceeds as normal. However, this is 100% house rule territory. This is not RAW but allows me as DM to adjudicate situations where I think the creatures involved would be unaware of what was about to happen whether that is a subtle spell or an ambush.
Another possible house rule is for the DM to have everyone roll initiative as normal then place the character initiating the conflict as first in the initiative order since nothing happens until after that character has taken their stated action. This latter choice is less of a penalty to characters with high initiative modifiers since the rest of the initiative order remains unaffected.
In cases where the triggering event might have visible indications before the character takes the action - like pulling out a weapon before an attack - then I'd likely just follow the initiative rules as written since some creatures could see the indications that something was about to happen and react faster.
In the enemies opening the door scenario, I'd roll initiative and resolve things in initiative order ... I would likely start initiative some time before the conflict was to start so that anyone who wanted to ready an action during the conflict could do so - no one knows within 6 seconds when that door will open so a character saying "I get my bow ready to shoot the first creature through the door" .. is basically stating the combat action they intend to take when the combat is being resolved in initiative order - but if the party knows that there are enemies beyond the door then the combat does NOT start when the door opens - it starts some time before that - it is up to the DM to realize that combat or a conflict is about to occur and have folks roll initiative so that it can be resolved appropriately.
Finally, initiative isn't just for combat - it is for any situation which might require resolving in order with multiple creatures/characters wanting to do things at the same time. It is a good idea to train your players out of expecting to attack something as soon as the DM asks for initiative. :)
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Anyway, to the OP, the "Ready Action" only happens in combat .. but sometimes character's will want to do things to prepare for future situations that might arise .. if you know a conflict could start then have everyone roll initiative before that happens and ask each person in order what they are doing whether it is combat or not ... this way, when a character decides to liven up a negotiation in a way that can't be perceived ... it can happen in a more natural and reasonable way. Other than that, it is up to you whether you use RAW or any number of possible house rules to resolve the situation in a way that makes sense to you and your players.