Suppose a PC takes the ready attack action, that action is triggered and they attack an enemy (or maybe technically, they take their reaction since a triggered ready action is a reaction). Here's the question: after this attack action (again, or reaction), as a DM do you roll initiative to determine who attacks next, or is it the enemy's turn to attack?
If you can point me to the RAW about how this series of events is supposed to run, even better. TIA
Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
I agree. So does this mean that after the attack action triggered by the ready action, the enemy gets the option to attack or are you supposed to roll initiative?
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Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
I agree. So does this mean that after the attack action triggered by the ready action, the enemy gets the option to attack or are you supposed to roll initiative?
Neither one. You roll initiative before the attack action that would be triggered by the ready action.
It's a wooly area, there is no hard writing for the interaction, but the usual result I go for is immediately roll for initiative, and then proceed as if it is halfway through the turn of the person who triggered the ready action.
If the party wants to ambush, then they need to plan ahead and all ready an action. If only one person does and that means it skips someone - such are the penalties of not communicating!
Initiative should already have been rolled at the start of the combat. Then, say player A (initiative count 10) readies an attack if an enemy comes within his reach. The enemy (on count 9) runs up to the player A’s character.
Player A’s readied action will trigger and they make their attack, which will be resolved normally. Then after the readied action is resolved, the enemy will continue with their turn. The enemy might choose to continue moving, or attack the character, or whatever else the enemy can do.
lots of people are saying different things. And some of it is counterintuitive, eg, roll initiative before a readied action is triggered. (Then what’s the point of ever readying an action?) Is this situation described in the rules? If not, it seems like DM’s decision
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Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
lots of people are saying different things. And some of it is counterintuitive, eg, roll initiative before a readied action is triggered. (Then what’s the point of ever readying an action?) Is this situation described in the rules? If not, it seems like DM’s decision
The thing to consider, which is how I do it, is that initiative or not, things are happening in turns. It's just that in non-combat scenarios, most turns only involve moving and talking.
So the idea of "combat only actions" doesn't work for me, because D&D to me is supposed to be about freedom - the rules should cover doing anything you can do, not restrict you so that you can't.
Technically you could roll initiative as soon as someone says "I ready an action to...", but that might mean a lot of trawling through six-second increments whilst saying "do you still...", and everyone else saying "I'll ready an action too, as we're in initiative".
So I imagine the world is in initiative order anyway, and that we won't know that order until it's rolled, which is only done when it matters. So if someone says "If he steps out of the group, I shoot", and then he steps out of the group, that is the whenabouts that I will call for an initiative roll. Given that the whole set of events, "he moved>I shoot" is going to go off either way, it doesn't matter if you resolve the attack and then roll initiative, or if you roll initiative then roll the attack. What's important is where we freeze time to go to initiative, and that is during the triggering person's turn, as they do their movement or whatever action they do to cause combat to initiate.
So let's say the relevant dude rolls a 10, the readied attacker rolls a 3, and the group rolls a 22 for initiative. We join the action at the moment in which the relevant dude has started moving on his turn, and the attacker's readied action resolves, and now it's the rest of the relevant dude's turn. Then it will be the attacker's turn, and then the group's turn.
Another way to approach it is that readying an attack is an openly hostile action, and triggers initiative. It's the equivalent of pointing a crossbow at someone, or raising a sword ready to swing. You can't casually ready an attack, so doing so initiates combat, starting on your turn, and likely turns conversations sour.
Does it mean people who roll highly might miss the chance to ready an attack of their own? sometimes, but initiative is meant to reflect the uncertainty of combat anyway.
Regarding the point of readying an action if you can't do this - it's to counter many an effect. A burrowing creature, so you eady an attack to swing if it pops up. A creature in cover, popping out, shooting, and then hiding, so you ready an action to shoot when they pop out. A party popping out of the tiny hut to fire off magic then darting back in, so you ready an action to whack that mole. An enemy is running into the trap you set, with your ally as bait, and you ready an action to trip them as they run past. You are in negotiations with an evil wizard, so you ready an action to use word of recall the second he starts casting a spell. An ally is about to leap from a flaming roof, and you ready an action to dive out of a window to catch them as they fall. An ally is limping towards you, but is out of reach on your turn, so you ready an action to heal them when they get within range.
Anyone who has not used ready actions has been fighting in too small spaces, against too predictable enemies!
The approach that Baldur's Gate 3 takes to this is that if someone does something that causes combat to happen, the order of events is:
Triggering event takes place
Everyone rolls Initiative
First round of combat starts at the top of the order
When it's the triggering character's first turn, if the triggering event required an action to execute, they don't get to take an action on that turn; if it was a bonus action, they don't get to take a bonus action on that turn.
This seems like a pretty reasonable way to handle it.
I think it's also worth pointing out that there's a big difference between saying something like "I want to shoot at the guard when he comes in range" when you're not yet in combat (which is pretty vague in the rules) and taking the actual Ready action on your turn (which is a very specific action with well-defined mechanics that only makes sense in combat).
The approach that Baldur's Gate 3 takes to this is that if someone does something that causes combat to happen, the order of events is:
Triggering event takes place
Everyone rolls Initiative
First round of combat starts at the top of the order
When it's the triggering character's first turn, if the triggering event required an action to execute, they don't get to take an action on that turn; if it was a bonus action, they don't get to take a bonus action on that turn.
This is fair and seems intuitive (or at least doesn't seem unintuitive).
lots of people are saying different things. And some of it is counterintuitive, eg, roll initiative before a readied action is triggered. (Then what’s the point of ever readying an action?) Is this situation described in the rules? If not, it seems like DM’s decision
It is not intended that you ever ready an action outside of combat -- "I attack them when they come through the door" is resolved through the surprise and initiative rules, not as readied actions.
The approach that Baldur's Gate 3 takes to this is that if someone does something that causes combat to happen, the order of events is:
BG3 plays pretty loose with the rules at times. Honestly, the initiative rules should probably be rewritten or house ruled because they tend to result in weird time warp effects where you decide to do something, roll badly on initiative, and everyone else divines ahead of time that you were planning on doing that thing and takes appropriate reactions.
[...] In any situation where a character’s actions initiate combat, you can give the acting character Advantage on their Initiative roll. For example, if a conversation with an NPC is cut short because the Sorcerer is convinced that NPC is a doppelganger and targets it with a Chromatic Orb spell, everyone rolls Initiative, and the Sorcerer does so with Advantage. If the doppelganger rolls well, it might still act before the Sorcerer’s spell goes off, reflecting the monster’s ability to anticipate the spell.
lots of people are saying different things. And some of it is counterintuitive, eg, roll initiative before a readied action is triggered. (Then what’s the point of ever readying an action?) Is this situation described in the rules? If not, it seems like DM’s decision
Ready action is taken during combat. You don't ready an action outside of combat. The entire combat sequence has been simplified for he point it is counterintuitive.
If a PC or monster plans to attack, you roll initiative. If one side is surprised, they have disadvantage on the roll. If the person you are attacking somehow acts before you in initiative it is assumed by the game rules they noticed that you were about to attack.
Basically you can't ready an action outside of combat.
[...] In any situation where a character’s actions initiate combat, you can give the acting character Advantage on their Initiative roll. For example, if a conversation with an NPC is cut short because the Sorcerer is convinced that NPC is a doppelganger and targets it with a Chromatic Orb spell, everyone rolls Initiative, and the Sorcerer does so with Advantage. If the doppelganger rolls well, it might still act before the Sorcerer’s spell goes off, reflecting the monster’s ability to anticipate the spell.
What is weird is whether or not the player has even cast the spell yet. And if they do, do they lose the spell slots if it no longer makes sense to use the spell?
So, say you go to cast chromatic orb and roll a 1. Doppelganger casts antimagic field and another monster makes your speed 0.
In pure logic you should be casting the chromatic orb at the doppelganger, but the orb no longer affects the doppelganger could you change targets?
Technically you couldn't even have cast counterspell on the antimagic field because they would have broken the concentration on chromatic orb.
I feel like they need to add a surprise round back in to handle this
"I shoot the guys when they open the door." is a classic move that is pretty common. But fails miserably with initiative rolls.
player - "I shoot the guys when they open the door."
GM - "Roll initiative"
Bad guys roll high, open the door, toss in a flaming oil flask and close the door.
GM -"You still want to shoot the bad guys if they open the door?"
I think the bad guys would come out the door and roll disadvantage for their initiative. Which could result in the Bad guys going first stil...But at least less likely.
"I shoot the guys when they open the door." is a classic move that is pretty common. But fails miserably with initiative rolls.
player - "I shoot the guys when they open the door."
GM - "Roll initiative"
Bad guys roll high, open the door, toss in a flaming oil flask and close the door.
GM -"You still want to shoot the bad guys if they open the door?"
Yeah, RAW is a valid scenario. They roll with disadvantage, though, as @bhthephoenix said, if they are surprised. If not... then initiative was already rolled because the combat started.
[...] In any situation where a character’s actions initiate combat, you can give the acting character Advantage on their Initiative roll. For example, if a conversation with an NPC is cut short because the Sorcerer is convinced that NPC is a doppelganger and targets it with a Chromatic Orb spell, everyone rolls Initiative, and the Sorcerer does so with Advantage. If the doppelganger rolls well, it might still act before the Sorcerer’s spell goes off, reflecting the monster’s ability to anticipate the spell.
What is weird is whether or not the player has even cast the spell yet. And if they do, do they lose the spell slots if it no longer makes sense to use the spell?
So, say you go to cast chromatic orb and roll a 1. Doppelganger casts antimagic field and another monster makes your speed 0.
In pure logic you should be casting the chromatic orb at the doppelganger, but the orb no longer affects the doppelganger could you change targets?
Technically you couldn't even have cast counterspell on the antimagic field because they would have broken the concentration on chromatic orb.
I feel like they need to add a surprise round back in to handle this
I read it differently, just an intention at that moment.
Your intention is to cast the spell, but the same applies if, for example, you're pointing at an enemy with your sword or bow in an interrogatory. If, after rolling initiative with Advantage, the enemy goes before you, then on your turn, you're not obliged to cast the spell, attack with the sword, or shoot with the bow, because you realize on your turn that you didn't sleep well that day, and you're feeling slow :D
Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
I disagree, actions are not limited to combat. You can cast Action spells outside of combat, you can take the Attack action outside of combat, you can Dash outside of combat, etc.. etc... you can also Ready actions outside of combat. For instance, if everyone gets together to lift a piano all together they are readying their actions to lift. If someone is holding their bow taught to shoot anyone that comes through a door, they are readying their action to attack. If someone is holding a sword to an NPCs throat they are readying their action to Attack them.
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Suppose a PC takes the ready attack action, that action is triggered and they attack an enemy (or maybe technically, they take their reaction since a triggered ready action is a reaction). Here's the question: after this attack action (again, or reaction), as a DM do you roll initiative to determine who attacks next, or is it the enemy's turn to attack?
If you can point me to the RAW about how this series of events is supposed to run, even better. TIA
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Ready is a combat action, it doesn't really exist outside of combat.
I agree. So does this mean that after the attack action triggered by the ready action, the enemy gets the option to attack or are you supposed to roll initiative?
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
Neither one. You roll initiative before the attack action that would be triggered by the ready action.
It's a wooly area, there is no hard writing for the interaction, but the usual result I go for is immediately roll for initiative, and then proceed as if it is halfway through the turn of the person who triggered the ready action.
If the party wants to ambush, then they need to plan ahead and all ready an action. If only one person does and that means it skips someone - such are the penalties of not communicating!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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Initiative should already have been rolled at the start of the combat. Then, say player A (initiative count 10) readies an attack if an enemy comes within his reach.
The enemy (on count 9) runs up to the player A’s character.
Player A’s readied action will trigger and they make their attack, which will be resolved normally.
Then after the readied action is resolved, the enemy will continue with their turn. The enemy might choose to continue moving, or attack the character, or whatever else the enemy can do.
Honestly, while I understand some of the decisions Wizards made on initiative, it still winds up a bit strange.
lots of people are saying different things. And some of it is counterintuitive, eg, roll initiative before a readied action is triggered. (Then what’s the point of ever readying an action?) Is this situation described in the rules? If not, it seems like DM’s decision
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
The thing to consider, which is how I do it, is that initiative or not, things are happening in turns. It's just that in non-combat scenarios, most turns only involve moving and talking.
So the idea of "combat only actions" doesn't work for me, because D&D to me is supposed to be about freedom - the rules should cover doing anything you can do, not restrict you so that you can't.
Technically you could roll initiative as soon as someone says "I ready an action to...", but that might mean a lot of trawling through six-second increments whilst saying "do you still...", and everyone else saying "I'll ready an action too, as we're in initiative".
So I imagine the world is in initiative order anyway, and that we won't know that order until it's rolled, which is only done when it matters. So if someone says "If he steps out of the group, I shoot", and then he steps out of the group, that is the whenabouts that I will call for an initiative roll. Given that the whole set of events, "he moved>I shoot" is going to go off either way, it doesn't matter if you resolve the attack and then roll initiative, or if you roll initiative then roll the attack. What's important is where we freeze time to go to initiative, and that is during the triggering person's turn, as they do their movement or whatever action they do to cause combat to initiate.
So let's say the relevant dude rolls a 10, the readied attacker rolls a 3, and the group rolls a 22 for initiative. We join the action at the moment in which the relevant dude has started moving on his turn, and the attacker's readied action resolves, and now it's the rest of the relevant dude's turn. Then it will be the attacker's turn, and then the group's turn.
Another way to approach it is that readying an attack is an openly hostile action, and triggers initiative. It's the equivalent of pointing a crossbow at someone, or raising a sword ready to swing. You can't casually ready an attack, so doing so initiates combat, starting on your turn, and likely turns conversations sour.
Does it mean people who roll highly might miss the chance to ready an attack of their own? sometimes, but initiative is meant to reflect the uncertainty of combat anyway.
Regarding the point of readying an action if you can't do this - it's to counter many an effect. A burrowing creature, so you eady an attack to swing if it pops up. A creature in cover, popping out, shooting, and then hiding, so you ready an action to shoot when they pop out. A party popping out of the tiny hut to fire off magic then darting back in, so you ready an action to whack that mole. An enemy is running into the trap you set, with your ally as bait, and you ready an action to trip them as they run past. You are in negotiations with an evil wizard, so you ready an action to use word of recall the second he starts casting a spell. An ally is about to leap from a flaming roof, and you ready an action to dive out of a window to catch them as they fall. An ally is limping towards you, but is out of reach on your turn, so you ready an action to heal them when they get within range.
Anyone who has not used ready actions has been fighting in too small spaces, against too predictable enemies!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
The approach that Baldur's Gate 3 takes to this is that if someone does something that causes combat to happen, the order of events is:
This seems like a pretty reasonable way to handle it.
I think it's also worth pointing out that there's a big difference between saying something like "I want to shoot at the guard when he comes in range" when you're not yet in combat (which is pretty vague in the rules) and taking the actual Ready action on your turn (which is a very specific action with well-defined mechanics that only makes sense in combat).
This is fair and seems intuitive (or at least doesn't seem unintuitive).
Started playing AD&D in the late 70s and stopped in the mid-80s. Started immersing myself into 5e in 2023
It is not intended that you ever ready an action outside of combat -- "I attack them when they come through the door" is resolved through the surprise and initiative rules, not as readied actions.
BG3 plays pretty loose with the rules at times. Honestly, the initiative rules should probably be rewritten or house ruled because they tend to result in weird time warp effects where you decide to do something, roll badly on initiative, and everyone else divines ahead of time that you were planning on doing that thing and takes appropriate reactions.
This thread brings me memories of this one: Would a hidden enemy get an attack in before combat starts, if he was readying an action for it?
RAW, it's as @Pantagruel666 said. Everyone should roll for initiative and then, if the player wants, should take the Ready action on their turn.
I'll leave this recommendation here from the 2024 DMG, if it's interesting for the OP:
Ready action is taken during combat. You don't ready an action outside of combat. The entire combat sequence has been simplified for he point it is counterintuitive.
If a PC or monster plans to attack, you roll initiative. If one side is surprised, they have disadvantage on the roll. If the person you are attacking somehow acts before you in initiative it is assumed by the game rules they noticed that you were about to attack.
Basically you can't ready an action outside of combat.
What is weird is whether or not the player has even cast the spell yet. And if they do, do they lose the spell slots if it no longer makes sense to use the spell?
So, say you go to cast chromatic orb and roll a 1. Doppelganger casts antimagic field and another monster makes your speed 0.
In pure logic you should be casting the chromatic orb at the doppelganger, but the orb no longer affects the doppelganger could you change targets?
Technically you couldn't even have cast counterspell on the antimagic field because they would have broken the concentration on chromatic orb.
I feel like they need to add a surprise round back in to handle this
"I shoot the guys when they open the door." is a classic move that is pretty common. But fails miserably with initiative rolls.
player - "I shoot the guys when they open the door."
GM - "Roll initiative"
Bad guys roll high, open the door, toss in a flaming oil flask and close the door.
GM -"You still want to shoot the bad guys if they open the door?"
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I think the bad guys would come out the door and roll disadvantage for their initiative. Which could result in the Bad guys going first stil...But at least less likely.
Yeah, RAW is a valid scenario. They roll with disadvantage, though, as @bhthephoenix said, if they are surprised. If not... then initiative was already rolled because the combat started.
I read it differently, just an intention at that moment.
Your intention is to cast the spell, but the same applies if, for example, you're pointing at an enemy with your sword or bow in an interrogatory. If, after rolling initiative with Advantage, the enemy goes before you, then on your turn, you're not obliged to cast the spell, attack with the sword, or shoot with the bow, because you realize on your turn that you didn't sleep well that day, and you're feeling slow :D
But I understand this is debatable.
I disagree, actions are not limited to combat. You can cast Action spells outside of combat, you can take the Attack action outside of combat, you can Dash outside of combat, etc.. etc... you can also Ready actions outside of combat. For instance, if everyone gets together to lift a piano all together they are readying their actions to lift. If someone is holding their bow taught to shoot anyone that comes through a door, they are readying their action to attack. If someone is holding a sword to an NPCs throat they are readying their action to Attack them.