Up to recently I had a pretty good at-home weekly session in which I was the DM. Then I moved to a place where I basically don't know anybody, so I decided to give AL a shot. It wasn't horrible, but the DM did a really bad job (in my opinion), to the point where I didn't feel like coming back. He seemed to get irritated when our group couldn't figure out the puzzles in the dungeon, and would even throw in sarcastic quips when we made mistakes. He did some voices for different NPCs, but other than that, was pretty boring. No interesting descriptions of locations, no exciting narration of combat, no pacing or tension, all very stale.
I'm in a big city now, where AL is held at a game shop with a pretty big area for games. There were five or six tables, each with seven or eight players and a DM. It was so loud that I had trouble hearing the DM and other players. They have character sheets for anyone who wants to show up for the first time (my table had three new people including me, and four regulars). However, even the regulars didn't seem to know each other, leading me to the conclusion that there is a pretty large group of players who attend.
Disregarding the bad DM experience, my main concerns are just how AL works in general. For example, the way that you level up and earn loot doesn't appeal to me very much. And the main thing I'm not sure about is the actual role-playing element. The way AL is set up seems like it would make it difficult to develop a character long-term, with connections to other characters, a compelling "story", etc.
I could probably deal with an occasional bad DM, loud environment, and rotating player group. But if it's essentially a weekly dungeon crawl where you basically try to save up to unlock and buy loot, that seems kind of lame to me.
Any long-time AL players have any insight to share on this? Am I expecting too much? Or do I just misunderstand how it works?
Disregarding the bad DM experience, my main concerns are just how AL works in general. For example, the way that you level up and earn loot doesn't appeal to me very much. And the main thing I'm not sure about is the actual role-playing element. The way AL is set up seems like it would make it difficult to develop a character long-term, with connections to other characters, a compelling "story", etc.
I could probably deal with an occasional bad DM, loud environment, and rotating player group. But if it's essentially a weekly dungeon crawl where you basically try to save up to unlock and buy loot, that seems kind of lame to me.
Any long-time AL players have any insight to share on this? Am I expecting too much? Or do I just misunderstand how it works?
It seems to me that you perfectly understand how AL works. The lack of any real (or even imagined) character development is what pushed me away from AL eventually. It was fun for a while and it helped me get one of my friends into D&D, but the season 8 rules changes really squash any efforts you might make to individualize your character. In my opinion, AL now plays more like a bad video game than actual Dungeons and Dragons.
I will say that I met some cool people playing AL. If you make an effort to get to know the people in your AL community, it could be a lot better for you. Talking to these people can also get you invited to a much better home game.
I've been to AL for about a month. Its not homebrew but still fun. The sad part is if it isn't free then don't go. I've found places that will charge more than $5. If you do pay $5 is fine (all that happens is instore credit and you can use that for a set of dice.) Nevertheless, My gameshop had 6-7 tables of Tomb of annihilation campaigns going. My DM (who is now my friend I stay in contact with.) Started a Curse of Strahd table. He never really ran Curse of Strahd but he ran it pretty well. The players for the month were dropping in and out. Only 4 stayed the longest. We did have a bad player (One who doesn't care about the party or listens to the DM) but our DM managed to work with the player. The games where Weds from 7-11 and you could bring what you wanted (miniatures like I did for our battlemat, Dnd books or even pdfs. Just make sure your character was legal, PH+ rule) So I played a Sun soul Monk. We started at level 5 at our table and the game began.
My monk and my druid half-elf friend (girlfriend) met up with the party at murder house. A warlock Human, Half-Elf Druid, Rogue Tiefling(Bad player). By the time we (Girlfriend and I) left we had nearly killed Strahd in the last game but at almost the cost of a TPK. We lost the warlock who rolled a Paladin for the next game. We got to a windmill which had a hag inside. She let the party crash for the night. I bury and pry for the warlock. Nevertheless, the Rogue wanted the hags pastries. Everyone investigated the pastries only to find they didn't seem to be right. The hag fills as in that they're drugged. The Rogue eats them. The party and DM out of game Double confirm the answer. The Rogue has to do a DC save to fight his addiction. I steal a few pastries for later (Don't give me that insight check you know those feelings to true)
Our Druid comes back IRL and returns to the Windmill. He has the deed to the Murder House and the Windmill. The Druid and the Hag get into an argument over rent. This turns into a 20 min debate that ends up going (With insight checks and truth spells) "Some gold and one child per month." We were haggling with children's lives.
If you don't find a game like that in AL then It's not worth it. Just running a Mod isn't fun unless the party plays along. I stopped going because it was a 2hr drive since no gameshops ran games around here.
Oh, I forgot loot. Our group never found most loot. Our DM would tell us that after the event area if we asked. We replied, "Damit if only we didn't do XYZ." However, Since the new mods I heard magic items and loot dropped off the face of the earth. I think it had to be due to ToA because A lot of those tables were walking around with magic items by 7-8 sessions down in the tomb. CoS we only really had a silver sword and a deed at that point.
Bad DMs depends though. I feel like mine keeps our party engaged and I couldn't fault him on that. Hell, a lot of the time we forgot the two NPCs we were escorting.
It being loud, yeah I'm half deaf so when a table TPKed or even killed a boss. While we were investigating I couldn't hear much.
I feel AL is designed to get new people into DnD and also suck up some MTG (Just look at Ravnica). If you play once and got sour from it then I do feel bad because it should be like that. Even the vets I met there try to make it worth it for the players new and old.
1) there is a huge range of DM capability and play styles just like in home games. I’ve played home games with some awesome DMs and others with ones who were nice people but their DM approach/style just wasn’t something I enjoyed. You shouldn’t expect AL DMs to be any different.
2) AL games will usually have different players every week. One of the big appeal factors to AL is that it fits people’s busy schedules these days. If you can’t make it this week due to deadlines at work .. you just don’t sign up. If the usual night you like to play doesn’t work this week then try signing up for another night. My local game store runs at least 3 tables on Thursday evenings plus usually one or two on Fridays, a Sunday session and alternating Monday’s.
As a result, it can take quite a few sessions before you start to get acquainted with folks.
3) AL provides a structure where you can build your characters through adventures. How much role playing you do is often the choice of the player/character .. most AL modules have NPC interactions that can be role played in addition to what the players WANT to do. The challenge is that some folks are less comfortable role playing when they don’t know the other players well .. which is a common situation at the start of AL.
4) there is some confusion about what constitutes AL. The poster above that mentioned starting at level 5 or having some one whose character died make up a paladin for the next session isn’t playing AL.
In AL, all characters start at level 1 and must be played to any higher levels through AL legal content. AL is divided into tiers .. level 1-4, 5-10, 11-16,17-20 .. and characters are only played with other characters in the same tier except for hardcovers .. and even in hardcovers anew character must still start at level 1 .. though if a player has an existing higher level character it could be used for AL hardcover content on a chapter by chapter basis.
5) AL also has just as wide a range of players as the real world .. this means that you WILL run into folks that you get along with really well and others whose play style or attitude you just don’t like. It is a good idea if you are playing AL to have a high tolerance threshold for players who don’t play the way YOU like. In general, everyone plays together very well and the DM moderates it .. PVP is explicitly not permitted in AL .. unless the players involved both agree.
PS. To answer the original question .. Is AL worth it? .. I would give that a qualified yes.
Is AL as good as a dedicated group of friends playing a home game on a regular basis every week? I’d say no.
However, how many home games hit that ideal? DM gets sick or busy .. players have to miss sessions due to real life issues .. drama develops between players .. campaign goes in a direction some players like and others don’t.
Honestly, the only games I ever played that came close to the ideal were:
- high school .. lots of time to play, drama more common
- higher education - less time usually, a bit more serious interest in playing since time is more valuable
After that folks tend to get busier with real life .. significant others, partners, children, work, continuing education ...
Even most dedicated friend groups have trouble finding time to play D&D regularly when real life sets in ..
In this realistic context, AL is certainly worth it as an opportunity to continue playing D&D, to meet new people, to do a bit of adventuring and role playing (even if the others at the table might not be as into it .. though sometimes when one starts role playing more .. others join in).
AL can also be a decent on ramp to the hobby for folks who want to try it out without all the social pressures that might be associated with a regular group.
4) there is some confusion about what constitutes AL. The poster above that mentioned starting at level 5 or having someone whose character died make up a paladin for the next session isn’t playing AL.
Our DM for AL was weeks behind for CoS so the game shop wanted a low-level playing table. Everyone on ToA was above level 5 and were in the Tomb. The shop was losing players so the owner asked if he could run something different and at a low level (Level 5). When I asked about level 5, It was so players had more things to do (My monk doesn't have anything to at least level 3 for fighting) also Murder house, even with fudging, we would have been dead at level 1. Later on, this did get harder.
For the Paladin, he was a Warlock until a scripted Strahd tease showed up and we fought Strahd (We were escorting Ireena and izmark) We lost the warlock, 3 death saves fails. So he asked to be a Paladin next game. I don't know why that wouldn't be AL.
Well, I do see if you were a high level and you died being dropped from a tier, but our positions and tier were slim. 6-7 ToA tables or 1 CoS. This I would focus more on the game shop. Most of the ToA were full and when a TPK happen the table was gone (6-7 tables). Our group was at least trying to have fun. And we welcome anyone we got. If we did AL supplements then I think the tiers would work. However, our table couldn't, we were the only CoS table. I've been apart of the Waterdeep runs but I heard the loot game changed (Gold and Magic)
For the Paladin, he was a Warlock until a scripted Strahd tease showed up and we fought Strahd (We were escorting Ireena and izmark) We lost the warlock, 3 death saves fails. So he asked to be a Paladin next game. I don't know why that wouldn't be AL.
Well, I do see if you were a high level and you died being dropped from a tier, but our positions and tier were slim. 6-7 ToA tables or 1 CoS. This I would focus more on the game shop. Most of the ToA were full and when a TPK happen the table was gone (6-7 tables). Our group was at least trying to have fun. And we welcome anyone we got. If we did AL supplements then I think the tiers would work. However, our table couldn't, we were the only CoS table. I've been apart of the Waterdeep runs but I heard the loot game changed (Gold and Magic)
Maybe I'm not understanding what actually happened, but if the paladin didn't start at level 1 then he or she was not following AL rules. If you aren't following AL rules then you aren't playing AL.
The only reason to repeat is because we didn't understand :) ... sorry about that.
"Our DM for AL was weeks behind for CoS so the game shop wanted a low-level playing table. Everyone on ToA was above level 5 and were in the Tomb. The shop was losing players so the owner asked if he could run something different and at a low level (Level 5). When I asked about level 5, It was so players had more things to do (My monk doesn't have anything to at least level 3 for fighting) also Murder house, even with fudging, we would have been dead at level 1. Later on, this did get harder. "
In AL, game play is divided into tiers. Tier 1 is levels 1-4, Tier 2 is levels 5-10, Tier 3 is levels 11-16 and Tier 4 is level 17-20. (Hardcovers are the only exception where characters from different tiers can be in the same game in AL).
Characters in AL are created at level 1. They MUST level up through AL sanctioned play and every session has to be recorded on an AL log sheet. Tier 1 characters can be completely rebuilt. This means that every aspect of the character can be changed except the name. As soon as the character reaches level 5 however, the AL character class and everything except fluff (e.g. background) remains the same as the character levels up.
Why does AL have all these rules? This is because AL is a shared play environment ... if you create an AL character played at your local game store you can take that character, fly across the country and take it into a tier appropriate module in another AL game run either at another game store or even at home (as long as the game follows the AL restrictions).
So why are we confused by your comments? Your DM ran CoS starting at level 5. This is fine as long as people brought characters that they had previously leveled up to level 5 through AL play. You CAN'T START an AL legal character at level 5. They are not legal by definition. To BE an AL character they MUST start at level 1. If everyone brought characters they already had AND they were all level 5 already then there is no problem ... but your comments didn't make that clear.
"For the Paladin, he was a Warlock until a scripted Strahd tease showed up and we fought Strahd (We were escorting Ireena and izmark) We lost the warlock, 3 death saves fails. So he asked to be a Paladin next game. I don't know why that wouldn't be AL."
Presumably this character was at least level 5 already. In AL, characters can not be rebuilt after level 5. A character that dies CAN be restored to life through spell casting services which can be purchased for gold/treasure points and by spending downtime days (assuming someone in the party was not available to cast the appropriate spells like revivify). However, it is completely ILLEGAL in AL for someone to have a character die and then create a brand new character to drop into the campaign at the same level as the character who died. This is against the fundamental rules for AL play. It is completely FINE in a homebrew game run for fun or a game just run for fun at a game store ... but a character created this way is NOT LEGAL for Adventurer's League play. (the only exception to this is the allowance for specific pre-generated surrogate characters if your character is killed when playing season 7 tomb of annihilation prior to tier 3 or the destruction of the soul monger).
The game store can choose to run whatever they wish for the entertainment of their customers but unless we are misinterpreting your comments where you seemed to say that people created 5th level characters from scratch to start the module and a character that died created a brand new different 5th level or higher character to replace their lost character (neither of these are permitted for AL legal games) then it sounds like the game being run was actually not AL legal.
If you want the actual rules for AL play they are a free download at:
It basically says everything I have cited and quite a bit more.
P.S. Season 8 AL rules have been in effect since August/September 2018. Gold, experience and magic item rewards from modules have been replaced by Adventure Check Points, Treasure Points and a modest amount of gold at level up determined by your level. No magic items are awarded from playing the module. Magic items are unlocked for purchase and treasure points you accumulate through play can be used to purchase unlocked magic items. The rewards from play and any purchases must be recorded on your character log sheets. In hardcovers, magic items that are important to the plot (and there are several in CoS) are awarded as Storyline items which are only retained while playing that specific content and are removed afterward.
If you have played in an "AL" game since August/September 2018 that awarded experience and gold rather than Advancement check points and treasure points then you actually weren't playing AL either. The idea behind AL is that the SAME general rules are used at ALL tables everywhere in the world which makes it a level playing field no matter where you play and so your character can then be played at any AL venue worldwide (particularly conventions).
I have never played Adventure League games, but this may change in the near future. I am not posting to offer my opinion. Rather, I am simply offering another resource for those considering playing Adventure League games - YouTube (and, I am curious as to how accurate the descriptions are there).
Puffin Forrest, a channel based in San Diego, California, has several videos specifically on this subject.
This one which explains the rules and sort of what to expect:
In some ways yes. The really, really weird thing is that I'm also in San Diego, so presumably he went to the same place I went. And also, based on the address he lists on his YouTube "about" page, he probably lives within only a few miles of me.
I have never played Adventure League games, but this may change in the near future. I am not posting to offer my opinion. Rather, I am simply offering another resource for those considering playing Adventure League games - YouTube (and, I am curious as to how accurate the descriptions are there).
Puffin Forrest, a channel based in San Diego, California, has several videos specifically on this subject.
This one which explains the rules and sort of what to expect:
I am curious if either is helpful or true - based upon those who have experienced AL.
The first one is pretty accurate. It covers the additional restrictions on character creation, the different tiers of play, free character rebuilds before level 5 (though you can't just "swap" items .. you would pay for mundane items with gold ... and adjust your starting equipment depending on class and background choice).
However, most of the renown stuff isn't accurate anymore with season 8. Downtime is a mechanism to allow for longer scale character development and is also used for various character activities and for trading items between characters that aren't playing the same adventure. There are restrictions on trading magic items to prevent folks from creating really unbalanced characters by giving specific characters several particularly good magic items. Trading requires having an item of the same rarity on the same table in the DMG to enable the trade in the first place.
---
The second video is a different story since it covers the particular players experience at a particular location. I can only compare their comments to my own experiences.
- Some places will charge a sitting fee to play. This varies from location to location and usually isn't that much. Where I play charges $4.00 for the night and I don't begrudge them the money since they are providing the space and organizing the DMs. I get to show up and play. Considering the typical session is 4 hours long and $4.00 is less than a typical latte from Starbucks ... I usually consider it a decent investment of entertainment dollars :) .. but others will have a different opinion.
- In the video the sessions were 3 hours. This is odd since most AL content is either 2 or 4 hours long. My local game store schedules 4 hour sessions and will typically play either 2 2-hour modules or one 4-hour module. Actual run time varies from 3.5 to 6 hours in my experience depending on how quickly the group moves through the content and how much role playing and other activities take place. AL sessions would never run 16 hours since most of the folks who are playing at a game store have a REAL life :) these days and have relegated the gaming marathons to their school days. :)
- Most of the video was pretty tongue in cheek but some of the points are fairly accurate
* You are dropping in to play with a group of folks you don't usually know to start with. You can't have the same sort of expectations as you would playing a home game with friends who you have known for years. Once you have played a few times and begin to know people the situation might change a bit.
* Every week you might or might not have the same players. Most AL modules are self contained though there are some sets of linked modules that can be played as mini connected adventures. In addition, there are the published hardcover adventures that are also legal for AL play. The hardcovers tend to take anywhere from a few to many many sessions. Characters may change week to week or month to month as different players show up. As a result, the DM will usually be quite expeditious getting the new players into the game ... some suspension of disbelief is needed because the people are there to play and time is somewhat limited.
* Overall, I've found AL fun. The amount of role playing varies depending on the individual, the characters and often on how comfortable the player is with the rest of the folks at the table. Some people are quiet, other noisy, you will find some people you really like and may find some whose approach you don't like at all. It is up to the DM to balance this and make sure every player has a voice and a chance to express what they want to do no matter how quiet or noisy they are. As you make friends and acquaintances, the experience usually only gets better. The first sessions are usually the most challenging since the new person may not know anyone.
* Usually there is a short part near the beginning of the module when folks introduce their characters. It is useful to get an idea of what folks are playing in terms of class and level to see how your character is going to fit in and how you might want to play them this session. (As an example, one of my characters is a multiclassed bard/warlock whose choice of spells allows him to do crowd control, some aoe damage, targeted damage with cantrips, general skill use and healing ... when the group forms up and I am the only character with healing word ... I know I will be playing the character a certain way to better support the party since my healing is going to be very important in certain encounters ... the video had a good picture with pie charts showing possible distributions of what characters can do ... you usually can't count on a balanced party in AL so some versatility can be useful).
One final comment:
Season 8 changed up how characters advance and how treasure is awarded.
In the past, advancement was by experience and experience was based mostly on what the characters killed. In theory, experience could be awarded for "winning" an encounter but most DMs didn't do this. Bypassing a combat encounter because it wasn't useful for your mission or character goals usually meant receiving less XP at the end of the night. In season 8, advancement is by advancement check points (ACP). You receive 4 ACP for playing a four hour module. In tier one it takes 4 ACP to advance a level while Tiers 2-4 require 8 ACP.
This means that playing one tier one module and advancing 2 levels from 1-3 doesn't happen anymore (depending on the module played in tier 1 it was actually pretty common). A 4 hour tier one module will advance the character one level.
In addition, in my experience, this has significantly improved the game play at least at the store I play at. As an example, in a module last Friday, the party was returning to town with an item that we were tasked to recover. We encounter a human and halfling sitting by a fire on the road. As a party we decided returning the item was a higher priority than talking to some folks beside the road so the ranger cast pass without trace and out party managed to sneak past the encamped group. We returned the item and all turned out well. However, the encounter we bypassed was actually a combat encounter where the NPCs would try to take the item we had recovered. In previous seasons, there is NO doubt that the party would have decided to encounter the NPCS BECAUSE if they did not they would have received less experience for playing the module. From this perspective, in my experience, the ACP system in season 8 is MUCH better than awarding XP for monsters killed due to the inconsistent application and the meta-game motivation of the players to kill everything that moves to maximize their XP from the session.
On the treasure front, modules use to award one magic item and gold depending on what the players found. Gold was divided up amongst the players while magic items were given to the character with the lowest number of magic items (whether it was class appropriate or even useful .. the character with the least number would get first choice ... even if they couldn't use it themselves they could always trade it). This caused a number of problems ... some players created a new tier 1 character whenever they got a magic item. This would mean that PLAYER would always have a higher chance of getting a magic item whenever they played since their character had none. This was especially noticeable when a few level 4s were grouped with a level 1 or 2 ... the level 4s were almost guaranteed to get nothing ... UNLESS the player specifically refused to take a magic item to increase the chances that they would have the least number when something they wanted dropped. In addition, AL tables can have anywhere from 3 to 7 players. Characters who frequently played in groups of 3 would have far more magic items than those playing in groups of 7. Basically, the system for awarding magic items was stress inducing and made it very difficult to obtain magic items that might benefit your character -- especially if you did not have access to trading.
In season 8, you receive treasure points instead. (the system requires some suspension of disbelief but honestly seems to work much better in a shared world environment). You receive one treasure point/hour of the module in tier 1,2 and 2 treasure points/hour in tier 3,4. When you play a module, you unlock the magic item found in the module for purchase on that character when you accumulate sufficient treasure points. If you have enough treasure points you can purchase it as soon as the module is completed. Otherwise, you might wait a few sessions. However, no one is locked out of a magic item, you can choose what to get that will be more useful for your character and bad feelings over treasure distribution at the end of a module just don't happen. The system has a bit of unreal feeling to it ... to make it feel realistic you need to add some backstory to your character explaining how the magic item from that particular adventure made it into your possession ... but compared to the issues it solved this is pretty minor.
Finally, gold is awarded only on leveling up. The idea here is that the amount of gold you receive is representative of the gold remaining after you earn gold adventuring less your expenses. Many folks don't like it since they say "but I don't receive gold for performing the tasks in the module". Personally, I just role play it as if I DO receive the income - the character certainly does and that is their motivation ... but from a book keeping point of view I only add the average net income/level to my character sheet rather than recording "50gp earned from X mission, 35gp spent in a bar getting drunk" ... I just add the net at level up. It does take away a bit of the role playing but only if the players want it to ... you can still role play your earning and spending ... you just don't add it to your character sheet.
Anyway, I don't think the season 8 system is perfect but I do think it has fixed a number of issues that existed in previous seasons of shared adventurers league play.
Since you moved to a new place where you don't know anyone, going to AL games and sucking up what might be bad D&D for a bit might enable you to meet other people who are interested and maybe get a home game going with some good D&D down the road. It's an opportunity to test drive future homegame players/DMs if nothing else.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Adventure league is run very well in my area (Southern MD/DC) and I started in Season 8 so have no gripes about all the changes. It allowed me to find games that were short (2h) weekly and I really enjoy it. Its friendly to people who don't know the 5E rules well including my 9 year old daughter who comes with me every week now. We have a good table of people and a good DM. Plus I don't have to herd cats to organize a game which will inevitably only happen on the order of months rather than weeks meaning we can get through a longish campaign/hard cover.
There are lots of benefits. Even if just getting into a community to meet people and find better games. Mileage will vary based on location but there are a lot of positive things about AL in my opinion.
Adventure league is run very well in my area (Southern MD/DC) and I started in Season 8 so have no gripes about all the changes. It allowed me to find games that were short (2h) weekly and I really enjoy it. Its friendly to people who don't know the 5E rules well including my 9 year old daughter who comes with me every week now. We have a good table of people and a good DM. Plus I don't have to herd cats to organize a game which will inevitably only happen on the order of months rather than weeks meaning we can get through a longish campaign/hard cover.
There are lots of benefits. Even if just getting into a community to meet people and find better games. Mileage will vary based on location but there are a lot of positive things about AL in my opinion.
Where do you play? Using the game finder feature from WOTC, I can only find two places within an hour or so which advertise ADL, one in Woodbridge and one in Chantilly. I live in the Springfield VA area.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Adventure league is run very well in my area (Southern MD/DC) and I started in Season 8 so have no gripes about all the changes. It allowed me to find games that were short (2h) weekly and I really enjoy it. Its friendly to people who don't know the 5E rules well including my 9 year old daughter who comes with me every week now. We have a good table of people and a good DM. Plus I don't have to herd cats to organize a game which will inevitably only happen on the order of months rather than weeks meaning we can get through a longish campaign/hard cover.
There are lots of benefits. Even if just getting into a community to meet people and find better games. Mileage will vary based on location but there are a lot of positive things about AL in my opinion.
Where do you play? Using the game finder feature from WOTC, I can only find two places within an hour or so which advertise ADL, one in Woodbridge and one in Chantilly. I live in the Springfield VA area.
The game finder at WotC is terrible. Every place that it lists for me with AL only has Friday Night Magic events in their calendars.
Try using Warhorn with generic search terms like Virginia or Maryland.
Thanks! I saw a lot of MtG stuff too, not much ADL.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Up to recently I had a pretty good at-home weekly session in which I was the DM. Then I moved to a place where I basically don't know anybody, so I decided to give AL a shot. It wasn't horrible, but the DM did a really bad job (in my opinion), to the point where I didn't feel like coming back. He seemed to get irritated when our group couldn't figure out the puzzles in the dungeon, and would even throw in sarcastic quips when we made mistakes. He did some voices for different NPCs, but other than that, was pretty boring. No interesting descriptions of locations, no exciting narration of combat, no pacing or tension, all very stale.
I'm in a big city now, where AL is held at a game shop with a pretty big area for games. There were five or six tables, each with seven or eight players and a DM. It was so loud that I had trouble hearing the DM and other players. They have character sheets for anyone who wants to show up for the first time (my table had three new people including me, and four regulars). However, even the regulars didn't seem to know each other, leading me to the conclusion that there is a pretty large group of players who attend.
Disregarding the bad DM experience, my main concerns are just how AL works in general. For example, the way that you level up and earn loot doesn't appeal to me very much. And the main thing I'm not sure about is the actual role-playing element. The way AL is set up seems like it would make it difficult to develop a character long-term, with connections to other characters, a compelling "story", etc.
I could probably deal with an occasional bad DM, loud environment, and rotating player group. But if it's essentially a weekly dungeon crawl where you basically try to save up to unlock and buy loot, that seems kind of lame to me.
Any long-time AL players have any insight to share on this? Am I expecting too much? Or do I just misunderstand how it works?
It seems to me that you perfectly understand how AL works. The lack of any real (or even imagined) character development is what pushed me away from AL eventually. It was fun for a while and it helped me get one of my friends into D&D, but the season 8 rules changes really squash any efforts you might make to individualize your character. In my opinion, AL now plays more like a bad video game than actual Dungeons and Dragons.
I will say that I met some cool people playing AL. If you make an effort to get to know the people in your AL community, it could be a lot better for you. Talking to these people can also get you invited to a much better home game.
I've been to AL for about a month. Its not homebrew but still fun. The sad part is if it isn't free then don't go. I've found places that will charge more than $5. If you do pay $5 is fine (all that happens is instore credit and you can use that for a set of dice.) Nevertheless, My gameshop had 6-7 tables of Tomb of annihilation campaigns going. My DM (who is now my friend I stay in contact with.) Started a Curse of Strahd table. He never really ran Curse of Strahd but he ran it pretty well. The players for the month were dropping in and out. Only 4 stayed the longest. We did have a bad player (One who doesn't care about the party or listens to the DM) but our DM managed to work with the player. The games where Weds from 7-11 and you could bring what you wanted (miniatures like I did for our battlemat, Dnd books or even pdfs. Just make sure your character was legal, PH+ rule) So I played a Sun soul Monk. We started at level 5 at our table and the game began.
My monk and my druid half-elf friend (girlfriend) met up with the party at murder house. A warlock Human, Half-Elf Druid, Rogue Tiefling(Bad player). By the time we (Girlfriend and I) left we had nearly killed Strahd in the last game but at almost the cost of a TPK. We lost the warlock who rolled a Paladin for the next game. We got to a windmill which had a hag inside. She let the party crash for the night. I bury and pry for the warlock. Nevertheless, the Rogue wanted the hags pastries. Everyone investigated the pastries only to find they didn't seem to be right. The hag fills as in that they're drugged. The Rogue eats them. The party and DM out of game Double confirm the answer. The Rogue has to do a DC save to fight his addiction. I steal a few pastries for later (Don't give me that insight check you know those feelings to true)
Our Druid comes back IRL and returns to the Windmill. He has the deed to the Murder House and the Windmill. The Druid and the Hag get into an argument over rent. This turns into a 20 min debate that ends up going (With insight checks and truth spells) "Some gold and one child per month." We were haggling with children's lives.
If you don't find a game like that in AL then It's not worth it. Just running a Mod isn't fun unless the party plays along. I stopped going because it was a 2hr drive since no gameshops ran games around here.
Thanks for your input, I guess you're basically confirming my assumption...
Thanks for your input!
Oh, I forgot loot. Our group never found most loot. Our DM would tell us that after the event area if we asked. We replied, "Damit if only we didn't do XYZ." However, Since the new mods I heard magic items and loot dropped off the face of the earth. I think it had to be due to ToA because A lot of those tables were walking around with magic items by 7-8 sessions down in the tomb. CoS we only really had a silver sword and a deed at that point.
Bad DMs depends though. I feel like mine keeps our party engaged and I couldn't fault him on that. Hell, a lot of the time we forgot the two NPCs we were escorting.
It being loud, yeah I'm half deaf so when a table TPKed or even killed a boss. While we were investigating I couldn't hear much.
I feel AL is designed to get new people into DnD and also suck up some MTG (Just look at Ravnica). If you play once and got sour from it then I do feel bad because it should be like that. Even the vets I met there try to make it worth it for the players new and old.
AL experiences vary a lot.
1) there is a huge range of DM capability and play styles just like in home games. I’ve played home games with some awesome DMs and others with ones who were nice people but their DM approach/style just wasn’t something I enjoyed. You shouldn’t expect AL DMs to be any different.
2) AL games will usually have different players every week. One of the big appeal factors to AL is that it fits people’s busy schedules these days. If you can’t make it this week due to deadlines at work .. you just don’t sign up. If the usual night you like to play doesn’t work this week then try signing up for another night. My local game store runs at least 3 tables on Thursday evenings plus usually one or two on Fridays, a Sunday session and alternating Monday’s.
As a result, it can take quite a few sessions before you start to get acquainted with folks.
3) AL provides a structure where you can build your characters through adventures. How much role playing you do is often the choice of the player/character .. most AL modules have NPC interactions that can be role played in addition to what the players WANT to do. The challenge is that some folks are less comfortable role playing when they don’t know the other players well .. which is a common situation at the start of AL.
4) there is some confusion about what constitutes AL. The poster above that mentioned starting at level 5 or having some one whose character died make up a paladin for the next session isn’t playing AL.
In AL, all characters start at level 1 and must be played to any higher levels through AL legal content. AL is divided into tiers .. level 1-4, 5-10, 11-16,17-20 .. and characters are only played with other characters in the same tier except for hardcovers .. and even in hardcovers anew character must still start at level 1 .. though if a player has an existing higher level character it could be used for AL hardcover content on a chapter by chapter basis.
5) AL also has just as wide a range of players as the real world .. this means that you WILL run into folks that you get along with really well and others whose play style or attitude you just don’t like. It is a good idea if you are playing AL to have a high tolerance threshold for players who don’t play the way YOU like. In general, everyone plays together very well and the DM moderates it .. PVP is explicitly not permitted in AL .. unless the players involved both agree.
PS. To answer the original question .. Is AL worth it? .. I would give that a qualified yes.
Is AL as good as a dedicated group of friends playing a home game on a regular basis every week? I’d say no.
However, how many home games hit that ideal? DM gets sick or busy .. players have to miss sessions due to real life issues .. drama develops between players .. campaign goes in a direction some players like and others don’t.
Honestly, the only games I ever played that came close to the ideal were:
- high school .. lots of time to play, drama more common
- higher education - less time usually, a bit more serious interest in playing since time is more valuable
After that folks tend to get busier with real life .. significant others, partners, children, work, continuing education ...
Even most dedicated friend groups have trouble finding time to play D&D regularly when real life sets in ..
In this realistic context, AL is certainly worth it as an opportunity to continue playing D&D, to meet new people, to do a bit of adventuring and role playing (even if the others at the table might not be as into it .. though sometimes when one starts role playing more .. others join in).
AL can also be a decent on ramp to the hobby for folks who want to try it out without all the social pressures that might be associated with a regular group.
4) there is some confusion about what constitutes AL. The poster above that mentioned starting at level 5 or having someone whose character died make up a paladin for the next session isn’t playing AL.
Our DM for AL was weeks behind for CoS so the game shop wanted a low-level playing table. Everyone on ToA was above level 5 and were in the Tomb. The shop was losing players so the owner asked if he could run something different and at a low level (Level 5). When I asked about level 5, It was so players had more things to do (My monk doesn't have anything to at least level 3 for fighting) also Murder house, even with fudging, we would have been dead at level 1. Later on, this did get harder.
For the Paladin, he was a Warlock until a scripted Strahd tease showed up and we fought Strahd (We were escorting Ireena and izmark) We lost the warlock, 3 death saves fails. So he asked to be a Paladin next game. I don't know why that wouldn't be AL.
Well, I do see if you were a high level and you died being dropped from a tier, but our positions and tier were slim. 6-7 ToA tables or 1 CoS. This I would focus more on the game shop. Most of the ToA were full and when a TPK happen the table was gone (6-7 tables). Our group was at least trying to have fun. And we welcome anyone we got. If we did AL supplements then I think the tiers would work. However, our table couldn't, we were the only CoS table. I've been apart of the Waterdeep runs but I heard the loot game changed (Gold and Magic)
Maybe I'm not understanding what actually happened, but if the paladin didn't start at level 1 then he or she was not following AL rules. If you aren't following AL rules then you aren't playing AL.
Again Our...**** it. Why do I have to repeat
The only reason to repeat is because we didn't understand :) ... sorry about that.
"Our DM for AL was weeks behind for CoS so the game shop wanted a low-level playing table. Everyone on ToA was above level 5 and were in the Tomb. The shop was losing players so the owner asked if he could run something different and at a low level (Level 5). When I asked about level 5, It was so players had more things to do (My monk doesn't have anything to at least level 3 for fighting) also Murder house, even with fudging, we would have been dead at level 1. Later on, this did get harder. "
In AL, game play is divided into tiers. Tier 1 is levels 1-4, Tier 2 is levels 5-10, Tier 3 is levels 11-16 and Tier 4 is level 17-20. (Hardcovers are the only exception where characters from different tiers can be in the same game in AL).
Characters in AL are created at level 1. They MUST level up through AL sanctioned play and every session has to be recorded on an AL log sheet. Tier 1 characters can be completely rebuilt. This means that every aspect of the character can be changed except the name. As soon as the character reaches level 5 however, the AL character class and everything except fluff (e.g. background) remains the same as the character levels up.
Why does AL have all these rules? This is because AL is a shared play environment ... if you create an AL character played at your local game store you can take that character, fly across the country and take it into a tier appropriate module in another AL game run either at another game store or even at home (as long as the game follows the AL restrictions).
So why are we confused by your comments? Your DM ran CoS starting at level 5. This is fine as long as people brought characters that they had previously leveled up to level 5 through AL play. You CAN'T START an AL legal character at level 5. They are not legal by definition. To BE an AL character they MUST start at level 1. If everyone brought characters they already had AND they were all level 5 already then there is no problem ... but your comments didn't make that clear.
"For the Paladin, he was a Warlock until a scripted Strahd tease showed up and we fought Strahd (We were escorting Ireena and izmark) We lost the warlock, 3 death saves fails. So he asked to be a Paladin next game. I don't know why that wouldn't be AL."
Presumably this character was at least level 5 already. In AL, characters can not be rebuilt after level 5. A character that dies CAN be restored to life through spell casting services which can be purchased for gold/treasure points and by spending downtime days (assuming someone in the party was not available to cast the appropriate spells like revivify). However, it is completely ILLEGAL in AL for someone to have a character die and then create a brand new character to drop into the campaign at the same level as the character who died. This is against the fundamental rules for AL play. It is completely FINE in a homebrew game run for fun or a game just run for fun at a game store ... but a character created this way is NOT LEGAL for Adventurer's League play. (the only exception to this is the allowance for specific pre-generated surrogate characters if your character is killed when playing season 7 tomb of annihilation prior to tier 3 or the destruction of the soul monger).
The game store can choose to run whatever they wish for the entertainment of their customers but unless we are misinterpreting your comments where you seemed to say that people created 5th level characters from scratch to start the module and a character that died created a brand new different 5th level or higher character to replace their lost character (neither of these are permitted for AL legal games) then it sounds like the game being run was actually not AL legal.
If you want the actual rules for AL play they are a free download at:
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/208178/DD-Adventurers-League-Player--DM-Pack
It basically says everything I have cited and quite a bit more.
P.S. Season 8 AL rules have been in effect since August/September 2018. Gold, experience and magic item rewards from modules have been replaced by Adventure Check Points, Treasure Points and a modest amount of gold at level up determined by your level. No magic items are awarded from playing the module. Magic items are unlocked for purchase and treasure points you accumulate through play can be used to purchase unlocked magic items. The rewards from play and any purchases must be recorded on your character log sheets. In hardcovers, magic items that are important to the plot (and there are several in CoS) are awarded as Storyline items which are only retained while playing that specific content and are removed afterward.
If you have played in an "AL" game since August/September 2018 that awarded experience and gold rather than Advancement check points and treasure points then you actually weren't playing AL either. The idea behind AL is that the SAME general rules are used at ALL tables everywhere in the world which makes it a level playing field no matter where you play and so your character can then be played at any AL venue worldwide (particularly conventions).
I have never played Adventure League games, but this may change in the near future. I am not posting to offer my opinion. Rather, I am simply offering another resource for those considering playing Adventure League games - YouTube (and, I am curious as to how accurate the descriptions are there).
Puffin Forrest, a channel based in San Diego, California, has several videos specifically on this subject.
This one which explains the rules and sort of what to expect:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwcpOvnzytw
And, this one which is more of a narration of what happened when the player joined AL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O_77DTXVgI
I am curious if either is helpful or true - based upon those who have experienced AL.
First thing on those videos. Made before season 8, so the format has changed since then. In my opinion much to the worse.
In some ways yes. The really, really weird thing is that I'm also in San Diego, so presumably he went to the same place I went. And also, based on the address he lists on his YouTube "about" page, he probably lives within only a few miles of me.
The first one is pretty accurate. It covers the additional restrictions on character creation, the different tiers of play, free character rebuilds before level 5 (though you can't just "swap" items .. you would pay for mundane items with gold ... and adjust your starting equipment depending on class and background choice).
However, most of the renown stuff isn't accurate anymore with season 8. Downtime is a mechanism to allow for longer scale character development and is also used for various character activities and for trading items between characters that aren't playing the same adventure. There are restrictions on trading magic items to prevent folks from creating really unbalanced characters by giving specific characters several particularly good magic items. Trading requires having an item of the same rarity on the same table in the DMG to enable the trade in the first place.
---
The second video is a different story since it covers the particular players experience at a particular location. I can only compare their comments to my own experiences.
- Some places will charge a sitting fee to play. This varies from location to location and usually isn't that much. Where I play charges $4.00 for the night and I don't begrudge them the money since they are providing the space and organizing the DMs. I get to show up and play. Considering the typical session is 4 hours long and $4.00 is less than a typical latte from Starbucks ... I usually consider it a decent investment of entertainment dollars :) .. but others will have a different opinion.
- In the video the sessions were 3 hours. This is odd since most AL content is either 2 or 4 hours long. My local game store schedules 4 hour sessions and will typically play either 2 2-hour modules or one 4-hour module. Actual run time varies from 3.5 to 6 hours in my experience depending on how quickly the group moves through the content and how much role playing and other activities take place. AL sessions would never run 16 hours since most of the folks who are playing at a game store have a REAL life :) these days and have relegated the gaming marathons to their school days. :)
- Most of the video was pretty tongue in cheek but some of the points are fairly accurate
* You are dropping in to play with a group of folks you don't usually know to start with. You can't have the same sort of expectations as you would playing a home game with friends who you have known for years. Once you have played a few times and begin to know people the situation might change a bit.
* Every week you might or might not have the same players. Most AL modules are self contained though there are some sets of linked modules that can be played as mini connected adventures. In addition, there are the published hardcover adventures that are also legal for AL play. The hardcovers tend to take anywhere from a few to many many sessions. Characters may change week to week or month to month as different players show up. As a result, the DM will usually be quite expeditious getting the new players into the game ... some suspension of disbelief is needed because the people are there to play and time is somewhat limited.
* Overall, I've found AL fun. The amount of role playing varies depending on the individual, the characters and often on how comfortable the player is with the rest of the folks at the table. Some people are quiet, other noisy, you will find some people you really like and may find some whose approach you don't like at all. It is up to the DM to balance this and make sure every player has a voice and a chance to express what they want to do no matter how quiet or noisy they are. As you make friends and acquaintances, the experience usually only gets better. The first sessions are usually the most challenging since the new person may not know anyone.
* Usually there is a short part near the beginning of the module when folks introduce their characters. It is useful to get an idea of what folks are playing in terms of class and level to see how your character is going to fit in and how you might want to play them this session. (As an example, one of my characters is a multiclassed bard/warlock whose choice of spells allows him to do crowd control, some aoe damage, targeted damage with cantrips, general skill use and healing ... when the group forms up and I am the only character with healing word ... I know I will be playing the character a certain way to better support the party since my healing is going to be very important in certain encounters ... the video had a good picture with pie charts showing possible distributions of what characters can do ... you usually can't count on a balanced party in AL so some versatility can be useful).
One final comment:
Season 8 changed up how characters advance and how treasure is awarded.
In the past, advancement was by experience and experience was based mostly on what the characters killed. In theory, experience could be awarded for "winning" an encounter but most DMs didn't do this. Bypassing a combat encounter because it wasn't useful for your mission or character goals usually meant receiving less XP at the end of the night. In season 8, advancement is by advancement check points (ACP). You receive 4 ACP for playing a four hour module. In tier one it takes 4 ACP to advance a level while Tiers 2-4 require 8 ACP.
This means that playing one tier one module and advancing 2 levels from 1-3 doesn't happen anymore (depending on the module played in tier 1 it was actually pretty common). A 4 hour tier one module will advance the character one level.
In addition, in my experience, this has significantly improved the game play at least at the store I play at. As an example, in a module last Friday, the party was returning to town with an item that we were tasked to recover. We encounter a human and halfling sitting by a fire on the road. As a party we decided returning the item was a higher priority than talking to some folks beside the road so the ranger cast pass without trace and out party managed to sneak past the encamped group. We returned the item and all turned out well. However, the encounter we bypassed was actually a combat encounter where the NPCs would try to take the item we had recovered. In previous seasons, there is NO doubt that the party would have decided to encounter the NPCS BECAUSE if they did not they would have received less experience for playing the module. From this perspective, in my experience, the ACP system in season 8 is MUCH better than awarding XP for monsters killed due to the inconsistent application and the meta-game motivation of the players to kill everything that moves to maximize their XP from the session.
On the treasure front, modules use to award one magic item and gold depending on what the players found. Gold was divided up amongst the players while magic items were given to the character with the lowest number of magic items (whether it was class appropriate or even useful .. the character with the least number would get first choice ... even if they couldn't use it themselves they could always trade it). This caused a number of problems ... some players created a new tier 1 character whenever they got a magic item. This would mean that PLAYER would always have a higher chance of getting a magic item whenever they played since their character had none. This was especially noticeable when a few level 4s were grouped with a level 1 or 2 ... the level 4s were almost guaranteed to get nothing ... UNLESS the player specifically refused to take a magic item to increase the chances that they would have the least number when something they wanted dropped. In addition, AL tables can have anywhere from 3 to 7 players. Characters who frequently played in groups of 3 would have far more magic items than those playing in groups of 7. Basically, the system for awarding magic items was stress inducing and made it very difficult to obtain magic items that might benefit your character -- especially if you did not have access to trading.
In season 8, you receive treasure points instead. (the system requires some suspension of disbelief but honestly seems to work much better in a shared world environment). You receive one treasure point/hour of the module in tier 1,2 and 2 treasure points/hour in tier 3,4. When you play a module, you unlock the magic item found in the module for purchase on that character when you accumulate sufficient treasure points. If you have enough treasure points you can purchase it as soon as the module is completed. Otherwise, you might wait a few sessions. However, no one is locked out of a magic item, you can choose what to get that will be more useful for your character and bad feelings over treasure distribution at the end of a module just don't happen. The system has a bit of unreal feeling to it ... to make it feel realistic you need to add some backstory to your character explaining how the magic item from that particular adventure made it into your possession ... but compared to the issues it solved this is pretty minor.
Finally, gold is awarded only on leveling up. The idea here is that the amount of gold you receive is representative of the gold remaining after you earn gold adventuring less your expenses. Many folks don't like it since they say "but I don't receive gold for performing the tasks in the module". Personally, I just role play it as if I DO receive the income - the character certainly does and that is their motivation ... but from a book keeping point of view I only add the average net income/level to my character sheet rather than recording "50gp earned from X mission, 35gp spent in a bar getting drunk" ... I just add the net at level up. It does take away a bit of the role playing but only if the players want it to ... you can still role play your earning and spending ... you just don't add it to your character sheet.
Anyway, I don't think the season 8 system is perfect but I do think it has fixed a number of issues that existed in previous seasons of shared adventurers league play.
Since you moved to a new place where you don't know anyone, going to AL games and sucking up what might be bad D&D for a bit might enable you to meet other people who are interested and maybe get a home game going with some good D&D down the road. It's an opportunity to test drive future homegame players/DMs if nothing else.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Adventure league is run very well in my area (Southern MD/DC) and I started in Season 8 so have no gripes about all the changes. It allowed me to find games that were short (2h) weekly and I really enjoy it. Its friendly to people who don't know the 5E rules well including my 9 year old daughter who comes with me every week now. We have a good table of people and a good DM. Plus I don't have to herd cats to organize a game which will inevitably only happen on the order of months rather than weeks meaning we can get through a longish campaign/hard cover.
There are lots of benefits. Even if just getting into a community to meet people and find better games. Mileage will vary based on location but there are a lot of positive things about AL in my opinion.
Where do you play? Using the game finder feature from WOTC, I can only find two places within an hour or so which advertise ADL, one in Woodbridge and one in Chantilly. I live in the Springfield VA area.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
The game finder at WotC is terrible. Every place that it lists for me with AL only has Friday Night Magic events in their calendars.
Try using Warhorn with generic search terms like Virginia or Maryland.
Thanks! I saw a lot of MtG stuff too, not much ADL.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha