I would like to start off by saying I love this adventure. It is hands down one of my top 3 favorite adventures of all time. I've experienced it as a player multiple times and have ran it as a DM three times. That said it is really difficult and not your typical adventure. To answer the OP I think the "ideal level" of characters depends on what you plan to accomplish with it. I know people who use it as part of their campaigns and thus their player's characters were nearing 20 (with plenty of powerful magic items) because they wanted the players to actually survive and then chase after Acererak's phylactery deep into the Nine Hells and the Astral Plane.
Most people (including myself) use this adventure as a one shot. If that is the case you should really understand that this adventure is not designed to be "beaten". In my opinion this adventure is about the experience not about completing it. It should be made very obvious to players that this adventure is extremely deadly, heavily trapped based, and not designed to "win" in the typical manor. In the past when I have ran this adventure I tell my players "if you make it to the end you have "won"- defeating Acererak is simply "bonus points" because you cannot defeat him."
If you are looking for a one shot experience with this in mind I would say a party of 4-6 Players with level 14-16 Characters with 3 magic items (of their choice) up to a rarity of "Very Rare" - should be "fair." I also would add in the original condition of the Tomb that (to my knowledge- and correct me if I'm wrong) is not in the 5e version that teleportation magic of any kind will not work anywhere in the tomb. This is super brutal because technically even if (by some amazing miracle and probably meta gaming) the characters defeat Acererak they cannot get out of the tomb, then of course a few days later Acererak re-forms because he is not foolish enough to leave his phylactery in his tomb with him.
Continuing down this path of the one shot experience, I run this adventure "in real time". Meaning all traps that specify rounds I track in real time. I will tell the players ahead of time that I will do this and it works like a charm. If a trap triggers I explain what is happening and then begin counting out loud and give no clues or hints as to when the effect will end. I then wait to hear what ideas players blurt out and I adjust accordingly or I keep counting. Remember one round is 6 seconds. If you run this adventure like this, the traps become very challenging. Furthermore it makes it near impossible to defeat Acererak.
In my opinion playing the game this way and making it this hard adds replay-ability. Wait a few months or years and give your friends another crack at it. Of course they will remember some things (and hopefully they do not meta game) but for the most part will still be plenty difficult and provide enjoyment for all. I like to tell players up front how hilariously hard the final encounter is so they do not feel disappointed when they are obliterated. Know your players- if they cannot handle this kind of adventure I would avoid running it with them.
**Spoilers Ahead**
If you are counting in real time and the Players have been used to this, by the time they finally get to his tomb (assuming they even make it) I almost guarantee Acererak will win. First of all the characters might just die to the stone slab. If not, then when the dust collects and forms in front of them and you begin counting they will probably freak out and burn through their highest (and most "effective") spells. If that doesn't make things bad, once the specter comes out they will again burn through more important spells. By the time the Demi Lich finally ascends the party is probably seriously drained of resources. The door that uses swords to open has taken their blades, the magic users have used their best spells, one character has an intelligence and charisma score of 1, etc. All that remains is to have their souls devoured.
Well, he don't need to cast the antimagic field on himself
This brings up a good question: the Demilich lair action states it targets one creature it can see within 60'. Can it "see" itself to make using it on self a valid action?
Well, he don't need to cast the antimagic field on himself
This brings up a good question: the Demilich lair action states it targets one creature it can see within 60'. Can it "see" itself to make using it on self a valid action?
Most demiliches do like to scope themselves out after all. Helps with doing their hair too. :)
Found a reference for spells saying if it says you can target another then you can target yourself. While not a spell I think that should be reasonable.
Man, that 50/50 chance of the lair action is a pretty big deal for these guys. :)
Wish me luck, will be running ToH in three weeks (assuming they finish Horde of the Dragon Queen Friday. They're in the castle and have made good with the giants. Now it's cultist clobberin' time. 😄
For anyone curious, the group ran at level 11. They had a good time but didn't find it nearly as challenging as they were expecting.
The traps weren't largely dangerous as after that first hallway they decided they were sending summoned undead, earth elementals, etc. to go first and touch every damn thing possible while they stayed a room back. Smart of them.
I had ol' Ace begin opening a gateway to the Abyss to have something come through and play if they took more than a short rest. It was perfect for keeping them moving and they were doing well on health at the end (except for one poor schmo who discovered the animated sword room), had enough spell slots left too. Anything else that opposed them pretty much died in one or two rounds (including the mummy boy). By not being stupid the traps weren't that hard for them. Long rests would make this a cakewalk.
The final battle had Ace get his lair action each and every round (dice were hot, rolled in open). While frustrating that most attacks were not working when he was shielded, they wisely figured out that acid and holy water aren't magical, but sure do ruin an undead's day.
Two were dropped to 0 HP by the Howl, but the cleric got them up each time. One was absorbed by the soul capture, but by then the demi-lich had taken enough damage that he was dropped the next round. Demi-lich dead in four rounds.
We had a lot of fun but the group consensus is that it's really not that hard if you just play it ultra careful and come loaded for bear. Never once did anyone hit one of the nude teleporters. Only magic item lost was the magic ring to open the door.
Anyone else have an experience with the module to share?
For anyone curious, the group ran at level 11. They had a good time but didn't find it nearly as challenging as they were expecting.
I really think you did not DM this module correctly. Or the 5e version really nerfed the dungeon. But, I don't think this completely true. To an extent they did nerf it, and by nature, 5e makes it harder to kill PCs, but the conversion largely keeps to the spirit of the original. And the original is very deadly. Did you give hints to the players or something? Or maybe the players "cheated" by skimming the module?
Nope, not a single hint. The module is actually not nearly as hard if you do two things.
1. Make something else enter everyplace first and trigger any problems.
2. Don’t do anything stupid, treat anything that looks valuable as a death trap.
As it turns out, it’s not impossible. It’s been made slightly easier, poison on spikes doesn’t insta-kill, but many other things do. A careful party can pull it off.
As it turns out, it’s not impossible. It’s been made slightly easier, poison on spikes doesn’t insta-kill, but many other things do. A careful party can pull it off.
It's not impossible per se but, if you run is right it should be very difficult. The "clue" in the first room are fairly round-about and requires careful sleuthing. Did you allow passive checks? That would make the dungeon far easier than it should be.
Also, there's more things nerfed than just the poison. For example, the green slime should insta-kill any players doused in it via old rules and illusions work differently in 1e which makes gem of seeing almost a requirement.
Far simpler if you summon an earth elemental and have it take the entrance for everything rather than a party member. The only hint given at all is that this place is ultra deadly. They went in well prepared for trouble.
In addition, an 11th level rogue specialized in finding traps and secret doors who goes over every inch of the place after the elemental goes through it makes the bad parts much easier.
Made them say specifically anything they were looking at or searching. No freebies on the traps.
Perhaps the 5e conversion wouldn’t be enough for your tastes. We found it difficult, but not insurmountable.
Sure, if you’re stupid enough to think climbing inside a green devil face with a black void in it is a good idea. Necromancer put one skeleton in to make sure, noticed he lost it completely, they said hell no and moved on.
Sure, if you’re stupid enough to think climbing inside a green devil face with a black void in it is a good idea. Necromancer put one skeleton in to make sure, noticed he lost it completely, they said hell no and moved on.
How many skeletons did you use in this manner?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
The devil face only took one to figure out it was bad news. When they don’t obey the mental command you give them, you know they’re out of 60’ or unable to act, so they were cautious about things that had that happen. He brought several, once they started getting low, the earth elemental idea went into play. They can take a decent beating, immune to poison, resistant to nonmagical damage, hits hard, does siege damage to objects, and can earth glide. There are a few places to find piles of bone to animate too. 😝
As it turns out this kind of approach isn’t uncommon. When the famous Frank Mentzer was asked how to survive the Tomb of Horrors he replied:
“Simple. Somebody else goes first. At [very high-level] play you have ample conjurations, NPCs/mooks, and other tools. Get out of the mindset that You have to do It.”
I’ve also heard of someone from the old days of gaming hire a dwarven mining crew to escavate the tomb from above. 😝
The standard adventurers walk into room, fiddle with things, take valuable things, and merrily waltz out approach is likely to be a disaster. Parties that think outside of the box can do much better.
Acererak was not easy though. They were down half the party when they won, and that was pretty tight. I’d say if I was going to try to make this nearly impossible I’d run level 9 characters rather than 11, and not as clearly warn the players that the dungeon is extremely hard. Mine came in expecting the worst and handled it accordingly.
The devil face only took one to figure out it was bad news. When they don’t obey the mental command you give them, you know they’re out of 60’ or unable to act, so they were cautious about things that had that happen. He brought several, once they started getting low, the earth elemental idea went into play. They can take a decent beating, immune to poison, resistant to nonmagical damage, hits hard, does siege damage to objects, and can earth glide. There are a few places to find piles of bone to animate too. 😝
I’ve also heard of someone from the old days of gaming hire a dwarven mining crew to escavate the tomb from above. 😝
I'm fair certain, your DM was taking it easy on you =)
Earth Glide will not work.
Dwarf mining crew will not work. They will either bump against impossible stone or quit when they start losing workers.
Starting the dungeon without a 4th or 5th level spell slot is bad thinking, use unseen servants, they're only lvl 1.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
And why would dwarves have problems getting through the rock when they expertly mine the hardest lands in the world? Mind you, this is a classic solution from Gygax’s days, not one of mine. Losing workers is more serious, and as DM I’d make sure it factored in.
Even in worked areas that glide doesn’t work in, all the other abilities make that elemental a formidable dungeon clearing tool. Think about it and test run one through rooms. Know that at 11th level it’s quite possible to resummon.
Simply, you’re buying into an idea that it is impossible. Even Frank Mentzer knew this strategy can work, and said so in the quote I gave. This can be the DM taking it absolutely by the book and being not generous but fair. I guarantee I did not DM it softly in any way, and that it can be beaten. You’re buying the hype which ended up not being true. It’s not impossible in 5e, just very very hard and unforgiving of any mistakes or stupidity.
I'm beginning to detect that the Tomb has since become nerfed into ineffectiveness over the years.
The point of making the tomb immune to mundane solutions is obvious. If were as simple as sending an army of whatever into it or simply digging into it, it would be stupid to have be for lvl 10-14.
5e characters have a vast array of advantages over 1st-2nd for which the tomb was designed. I did not say it was impossible, nor should it be, it's just too easy now.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
I would agree that things such as making the spike poison do damage rather than insta-kill, and Acererak being difficult rather than the impossible combo of spells the original had definitely changes it from being a near impossible challenge to a damned hard one. The distinction is noticeable. :)
Good news though, most of the insta-death traps still are. Basically the text says, if the player does this, they die. It's just some of the petty annoyances like poison that can kill with one hit in every one of the 8 billion pits in the place are definitely toned down. 5e characters are also a lot heartier than 1e. I guess it all depends what you wish for. If it's the nearly impossible version, it's best to play it with the original 1e rules. The module is cheap online. I mined it for the quaint illustrations to show the players and to get the flavor as close as possible. The 5e conversion is really a nasty one for players, but doesn't quite have the same level of sadism that the original did. Just close. :)
I too was kind of surprised how damn good damage resistance and the other benefits that elemental provided worked. Definitely helped them clear a lot of it. I guess what Frank Mentzer said about it is true. It's an out of the box solution that kind of spoils it a bit. Fortunately my party still had to really think about many puzzles that couldn't just be sprung. Pretty proud of their teamwork there. Oddly enough the thing that almost killed them (other than Mr. A) was that room with animated swords. They beat the hell out of their 11th level butts for a while.
Another thing that I think made it easier for them is that they had little to no interest in going for treasures. They heard how hard it was and simply wanted to beat it, not caring about bringing home baubles. Since they were one-shot characters for this they really didn't care for anything other than the bragging rights. That's how they could do stuff like looking at the gem that seemed powerful and say "nah, probably a trap, let's move along" rather than toying with it.
I'm about to run the 5e conversion. I am going to change things a bit to make it more of a challenge - based on your assessment Jarodeth. This will be PBP so it will be slow going but, I'll report back how it went and if changes I made were "fair" in the spirit of the original.
I would like to start off by saying I love this adventure. It is hands down one of my top 3 favorite adventures of all time. I've experienced it as a player multiple times and have ran it as a DM three times. That said it is really difficult and not your typical adventure. To answer the OP I think the "ideal level" of characters depends on what you plan to accomplish with it. I know people who use it as part of their campaigns and thus their player's characters were nearing 20 (with plenty of powerful magic items) because they wanted the players to actually survive and then chase after Acererak's phylactery deep into the Nine Hells and the Astral Plane.
Most people (including myself) use this adventure as a one shot. If that is the case you should really understand that this adventure is not designed to be "beaten". In my opinion this adventure is about the experience not about completing it. It should be made very obvious to players that this adventure is extremely deadly, heavily trapped based, and not designed to "win" in the typical manor. In the past when I have ran this adventure I tell my players "if you make it to the end you have "won"- defeating Acererak is simply "bonus points" because you cannot defeat him."
If you are looking for a one shot experience with this in mind I would say a party of 4-6 Players with level 14-16 Characters with 3 magic items (of their choice) up to a rarity of "Very Rare" - should be "fair." I also would add in the original condition of the Tomb that (to my knowledge- and correct me if I'm wrong) is not in the 5e version that teleportation magic of any kind will not work anywhere in the tomb. This is super brutal because technically even if (by some amazing miracle and probably meta gaming) the characters defeat Acererak they cannot get out of the tomb, then of course a few days later Acererak re-forms because he is not foolish enough to leave his phylactery in his tomb with him.
Continuing down this path of the one shot experience, I run this adventure "in real time". Meaning all traps that specify rounds I track in real time. I will tell the players ahead of time that I will do this and it works like a charm. If a trap triggers I explain what is happening and then begin counting out loud and give no clues or hints as to when the effect will end. I then wait to hear what ideas players blurt out and I adjust accordingly or I keep counting. Remember one round is 6 seconds. If you run this adventure like this, the traps become very challenging. Furthermore it makes it near impossible to defeat Acererak.
In my opinion playing the game this way and making it this hard adds replay-ability. Wait a few months or years and give your friends another crack at it. Of course they will remember some things (and hopefully they do not meta game) but for the most part will still be plenty difficult and provide enjoyment for all. I like to tell players up front how hilariously hard the final encounter is so they do not feel disappointed when they are obliterated. Know your players- if they cannot handle this kind of adventure I would avoid running it with them.
**Spoilers Ahead**
If you are counting in real time and the Players have been used to this, by the time they finally get to his tomb (assuming they even make it) I almost guarantee Acererak will win. First of all the characters might just die to the stone slab. If not, then when the dust collects and forms in front of them and you begin counting they will probably freak out and burn through their highest (and most "effective") spells. If that doesn't make things bad, once the specter comes out they will again burn through more important spells. By the time the Demi Lich finally ascends the party is probably seriously drained of resources. The door that uses swords to open has taken their blades, the magic users have used their best spells, one character has an intelligence and charisma score of 1, etc. All that remains is to have their souls devoured.
Most demiliches do like to scope themselves out after all. Helps with doing their hair too. :)
Found a reference for spells saying if it says you can target another then you can target yourself. While not a spell I think that should be reasonable.
Man, that 50/50 chance of the lair action is a pretty big deal for these guys. :)
Wish me luck, will be running ToH in three weeks (assuming they finish Horde of the Dragon Queen Friday. They're in the castle and have made good with the giants. Now it's cultist clobberin' time. 😄
For anyone curious, the group ran at level 11. They had a good time but didn't find it nearly as challenging as they were expecting.
The traps weren't largely dangerous as after that first hallway they decided they were sending summoned undead, earth elementals, etc. to go first and touch every damn thing possible while they stayed a room back. Smart of them.
I had ol' Ace begin opening a gateway to the Abyss to have something come through and play if they took more than a short rest. It was perfect for keeping them moving and they were doing well on health at the end (except for one poor schmo who discovered the animated sword room), had enough spell slots left too. Anything else that opposed them pretty much died in one or two rounds (including the mummy boy). By not being stupid the traps weren't that hard for them. Long rests would make this a cakewalk.
The final battle had Ace get his lair action each and every round (dice were hot, rolled in open). While frustrating that most attacks were not working when he was shielded, they wisely figured out that acid and holy water aren't magical, but sure do ruin an undead's day.
Two were dropped to 0 HP by the Howl, but the cleric got them up each time. One was absorbed by the soul capture, but by then the demi-lich had taken enough damage that he was dropped the next round. Demi-lich dead in four rounds.
We had a lot of fun but the group consensus is that it's really not that hard if you just play it ultra careful and come loaded for bear. Never once did anyone hit one of the nude teleporters. Only magic item lost was the magic ring to open the door.
Anyone else have an experience with the module to share?
I really think you did not DM this module correctly. Or the 5e version really nerfed the dungeon. But, I don't think this completely true. To an extent they did nerf it, and by nature, 5e makes it harder to kill PCs, but the conversion largely keeps to the spirit of the original. And the original is very deadly. Did you give hints to the players or something? Or maybe the players "cheated" by skimming the module?
Nope, not a single hint. The module is actually not nearly as hard if you do two things.
1. Make something else enter everyplace first and trigger any problems.
2. Don’t do anything stupid, treat anything that looks valuable as a death trap.
As it turns out, it’s not impossible. It’s been made slightly easier, poison on spikes doesn’t insta-kill, but many other things do. A careful party can pull it off.
It's not impossible per se but, if you run is right it should be very difficult. The "clue" in the first room are fairly round-about and requires careful sleuthing. Did you allow passive checks? That would make the dungeon far easier than it should be.
Also, there's more things nerfed than just the poison. For example, the green slime should insta-kill any players doused in it via old rules and illusions work differently in 1e which makes gem of seeing almost a requirement.
Far simpler if you summon an earth elemental and have it take the entrance for everything rather than a party member. The only hint given at all is that this place is ultra deadly. They went in well prepared for trouble.
In addition, an 11th level rogue specialized in finding traps and secret doors who goes over every inch of the place after the elemental goes through it makes the bad parts much easier.
Made them say specifically anything they were looking at or searching. No freebies on the traps.
Perhaps the 5e conversion wouldn’t be enough for your tastes. We found it difficult, but not insurmountable.
I'm pretty sure the entrance will eat an unlimited number of elementals.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Sure, if you’re stupid enough to think climbing inside a green devil face with a black void in it is a good idea. Necromancer put one skeleton in to make sure, noticed he lost it completely, they said hell no and moved on.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
How many skeletons did you use in this manner?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
The devil face only took one to figure out it was bad news. When they don’t obey the mental command you give them, you know they’re out of 60’ or unable to act, so they were cautious about things that had that happen. He brought several, once they started getting low, the earth elemental idea went into play. They can take a decent beating, immune to poison, resistant to nonmagical damage, hits hard, does siege damage to objects, and can earth glide. There are a few places to find piles of bone to animate too. 😝
As it turns out this kind of approach isn’t uncommon. When the famous Frank Mentzer was asked how to survive the Tomb of Horrors he replied:
“Simple. Somebody else goes first. At [very high-level] play you have ample conjurations, NPCs/mooks, and other tools. Get out of the mindset that You have to do It.”
I’ve also heard of someone from the old days of gaming hire a dwarven mining crew to escavate the tomb from above. 😝
The standard adventurers walk into room, fiddle with things, take valuable things, and merrily waltz out approach is likely to be a disaster. Parties that think outside of the box can do much better.
Acererak was not easy though. They were down half the party when they won, and that was pretty tight. I’d say if I was going to try to make this nearly impossible I’d run level 9 characters rather than 11, and not as clearly warn the players that the dungeon is extremely hard. Mine came in expecting the worst and handled it accordingly.
I'm fair certain, your DM was taking it easy on you =)
Earth Glide will not work.
Dwarf mining crew will not work. They will either bump against impossible stone or quit when they start losing workers.
Starting the dungeon without a 4th or 5th level spell slot is bad thinking, use unseen servants, they're only lvl 1.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
And why would dwarves have problems getting through the rock when they expertly mine the hardest lands in the world? Mind you, this is a classic solution from Gygax’s days, not one of mine. Losing workers is more serious, and as DM I’d make sure it factored in.
Even in worked areas that glide doesn’t work in, all the other abilities make that elemental a formidable dungeon clearing tool. Think about it and test run one through rooms. Know that at 11th level it’s quite possible to resummon.
Simply, you’re buying into an idea that it is impossible. Even Frank Mentzer knew this strategy can work, and said so in the quote I gave. This can be the DM taking it absolutely by the book and being not generous but fair. I guarantee I did not DM it softly in any way, and that it can be beaten. You’re buying the hype which ended up not being true. It’s not impossible in 5e, just very very hard and unforgiving of any mistakes or stupidity.
I'm beginning to detect that the Tomb has since become nerfed into ineffectiveness over the years.
The point of making the tomb immune to mundane solutions is obvious. If were as simple as sending an army of whatever into it or simply digging into it, it would be stupid to have be for lvl 10-14.
5e characters have a vast array of advantages over 1st-2nd for which the tomb was designed. I did not say it was impossible, nor should it be, it's just too easy now.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
I would agree that things such as making the spike poison do damage rather than insta-kill, and Acererak being difficult rather than the impossible combo of spells the original had definitely changes it from being a near impossible challenge to a damned hard one. The distinction is noticeable. :)
Good news though, most of the insta-death traps still are. Basically the text says, if the player does this, they die. It's just some of the petty annoyances like poison that can kill with one hit in every one of the 8 billion pits in the place are definitely toned down. 5e characters are also a lot heartier than 1e. I guess it all depends what you wish for. If it's the nearly impossible version, it's best to play it with the original 1e rules. The module is cheap online. I mined it for the quaint illustrations to show the players and to get the flavor as close as possible. The 5e conversion is really a nasty one for players, but doesn't quite have the same level of sadism that the original did. Just close. :)
I too was kind of surprised how damn good damage resistance and the other benefits that elemental provided worked. Definitely helped them clear a lot of it. I guess what Frank Mentzer said about it is true. It's an out of the box solution that kind of spoils it a bit. Fortunately my party still had to really think about many puzzles that couldn't just be sprung. Pretty proud of their teamwork there. Oddly enough the thing that almost killed them (other than Mr. A) was that room with animated swords. They beat the hell out of their 11th level butts for a while.
Another thing that I think made it easier for them is that they had little to no interest in going for treasures. They heard how hard it was and simply wanted to beat it, not caring about bringing home baubles. Since they were one-shot characters for this they really didn't care for anything other than the bragging rights. That's how they could do stuff like looking at the gem that seemed powerful and say "nah, probably a trap, let's move along" rather than toying with it.
I'm about to run the 5e conversion. I am going to change things a bit to make it more of a challenge - based on your assessment Jarodeth. This will be PBP so it will be slow going but, I'll report back how it went and if changes I made were "fair" in the spirit of the original.