Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Hide(action): stealth check. on success you have Hidden condition
Hidden condition: grants Surprise on initiative. Ranged attacks rolled with advantage and then Hidden condition is removed. Melee attack removes condition before the attack is rolled.
Invisible condition: gives advantage on Hide(action). All Attacks rolled with advantage. Attacking does not remove invisible condition.
Invisibility spell-> rename Lesser Invisibility because it grants Invisible condition but only for Advantage on Hide action. it doesnt grant advantage on any attack and Invisible condition goes away before any attack is rolled.
Greater Invisibility spell: grants Invisible condition, exactly as written.
Yah know, when we did "hiding" back in the day, i think we assumed you didnt move. I think we assumed moving removed the Hidden condition.
So you moved to a spot that gave concealment, and then you did a stealth check to Hide. If you successdully hid, then you ranged attacked with advantage. And then you moved the rest of your turn.
Ugh. The 2024 rules collapsing hidden and invisible to the same thing didnt bother me before, but now i really really dont like them.
Hide(action): stealth check. on success you have Hidden condition
Hidden condition:
***outside combat*** grants Surprise on initiative.
***during combat movement removes Hidden condition*** ***during combat*** first attack rolled with advantage and then Hidden condition is removed.
Invisible condition: gives advantage on Hide(action). All Attacks rolled with advantage. Attacking does not remove invisible condition.
Invisibility spell-> rename Lesser Invisibility because it grants Invisible condition but only for Advantage on Hide action. it doesnt grant advantage on any attack and Invisible condition goes away before any attack is rolled.
Greater Invisibility spell: grants Invisible condition, exactly as written.
So outside combat you can stealth througb the forest, moving doesnt remove Hidden condition, amd if you see goblins, you get Surpriss on initiative.
During combat, moving removes hidden condition, so if you can melee as an enemy walks by you as a readied action, you get advantage, but otherwise movement removes hidden conditon will prevent most melee attacks.
I see where you are coming from, but I WANT an assassin trope character to be able to at least move their movement—with a high enough hide roll—and make their first attack with advantage. I don't like limiting the melee assassin to ranged attacks.
I was told this might be OP, but without playtesting, I can't say I agree.
Maybe make it a feature of rhe assassin subclass
I think having rhe Hide condition allow melee attacks is a bit op. Its basically greater invisibility for one round
Maybe require a stealth >= perception+5 and only for Assassin subclas.
To keep the terminology as close to what players are used to, i would change Unseen Conditon to the Hidden Condition to reflect my evolving thoughts on this thread.
Someone who's in the middle of a cloud of opaque smoke is unseen (enemies can't see them) but not hidden (they have made no special effort to actually hide).
I think lightly obscured should be like half cover: +2 to your ac, but obscure gives no dex save bonus.
Full obscure should be like full cover, cant be targeted. But if an aoe hits the area, then no dex save bonus.
I dont think fully obscured or full cover need to be conditions, they can just be modifiers younuse in certsin cases.
One difference is conditins are mostly independent of the viewer. You have the poisoned condition or the prone condition whethrr anyone is looking at you or not.
Whether you have half/full cover/concealment deoends on where you are, who is looking at you, and terrain festures in between.
Conditions are just a flag you set.
Things like cover and concealment you have to calculate moment by moment
Being unseen is not a condition. It just means that you qualify for the rules in "unseen attackers and targets". Being hidden is a reason you're unseen.
Ok, then i would much prefer a term that doesnt start with "un" if possible.
This is basically Heavily Obscured. But the issue is, trying to simplify to a few terms is always going yo have some terms doing multiple things.
I dunno.
Yeah. Thinking about it, hide is basically limitless, rogues can do it every turn. Versus invisibility is a slotted spell, and a ring of permanent invisibility is... legendary i think.
Being able to hide every turn with no "slot" or "charge" limit makes hiding more powerful. I think the only way to balance is to say it only works for ranged.
If a rogue subclas can do this, it would basically be the ONLY thing it can do.
The thought was that melee advantage from hidden could only be used if an enemy was within 30, but perhaps that's too much? What if I made it half speed or less to benefit from the "remain hidden while moving" feature?
Or is the thinking that being able to Hide near melee range makes rogues too hard to target/hit? To that I would say, once they are in melee, they have to get out to do it again. Disengage and Hide would be mutually exclusive in any situation where they also attacked. This already makes the Hide/Attack with advantage loop much harder in melee where the change I'm proposing only really benefits the first attack in the loop anyway.
If general hide is "zero movement allowed" you could range attack or hide on the ceiling and melee down via a ready action.
And then assassin subclass can hide and move (walk) 15 feet total (not half cause then folks will wanna build a monk/rogue and get 60 feet of movement) and melee one time, that feels fairly balanced.
The first round of rogue-level damage from Surprising Strike is a LOT of damage. But a dm can adjust by having many monsters at the start of combat. So letting it be melee if the movement is limited shouldnt be too terrible.
Im trying to think how different the melee weapons are from ramged weapons are for damage and masteries.
This would work with that light/nick/dual nonsense, which means you could single-class all.rogue and get 3 melee attacks as an assassin and at level 20, youve got 3 shots to hit and do an extra 20 dmg.
I guess you can light/nick/dual with ranged/thrown weapons, so maybe its no differnet.
I guess id need to see the min/max ranged assassin versus the min/max melee version?