I'm making a feat and the wording I'd like to mimic is
You gain proficiency in the [SKILL] skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
Is that Proficiency, Twice Proficiency, Expertise, something else, or not implemented?
Second Question: Is there some kind of documentation or API we can reference to know this kind of stuff? We are just given a list of subType names with no description of what they are. Names aren't enough. The rules often use the same wording like what I've quoted as a template. That would be great to have in the documentation.
Proficiency: Add the level-appropriate proficiency bonus when using a skill or tool.
Expertise: Add the level-appropriate proficiency bonus twice when using a skill or tool.
Half Profieciency: Add half the level-appropriate proficiency bonus when using a skill or tool. Halves are generally rounded down in D&D. This is to say that anything less than a whole number is considered to be the next lowest whole number. Example: 5 / 2 = 2.5, rounding this down makes it just 2.
Half Proficiency Round Up: As Half Proficiency, but anything less than a whole number is considered the next whole number up. Example: 5 / 2 = 2.5, rounding this up makes it 3.
Twice Proficiency works just like expertise.
The standard bonuses can be found here. I suggest taking some time to read through the the character creation rules in the Compendium section from beginning to end. They may not be that exciting thing for you, but it's going to be hard to do the more fun custom things if you aren't familiar with that material.
I was familiar with all the listed items in the rules (except Twice Proficiency). Mainly part 1 was a setup for my main question which was part 2. Also I wanted to expose the question, why have Twice Proficiency if it does the same thing as expertise? And still, my main question remains unanswered "How do I use the tools to implement this type of rule text"
You gain proficiency in the [SKILL] skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
Again, thanks for responding but unfortunately no info was given I didn't already know.
Also I wanted to expose the question, why have Twice Proficiency if it does the same thing as expertise?
Expertise has a subtype that lets you pick from your proficient skills.
And still, my main question remains unanswered "How do I use the tools to implement this type of rule text"
You gain proficiency in the [SKILL] skill. If you are already proficient in the skill, you add double your proficiency bonus to checks you make with it.
I'm looking around but it doesn't look like it's possible. I think you'd need two variants of the feat: one with a Proficiency modifier and one with Expertise.
Also I wanted to expose the question, why have Twice Proficiency if it does the same thing as expertise?
Expertise has a subtype that lets you pick from your proficient skills.
Yeah now that I'm looking at the sub types I notice at least one difference, something about choosing a rogue skill. But I still don't see the "choose from proficient skills" sub type you mentioned. What is the name of it?
Maybe talking examples would help. How did they implement the Prodigy feat from Xanathar's, the Skill Empowerment 5th level spell, and the Rogue ability Expertise? Can anyone think of any other examples of gaining double proficiency from DDB modules we can look at as examples of how to implement? What rule wording is matched when Twice Proficient is used and what rule wording is used when Expertise is used?
The only place I can find that wording I mentioned is in Unearthed Arcana 17 April 2017 & 6 June 2016. That's probably why DDB hasn't implemented it yet. DDB in case you're waiting for an officially worded request, can we please get this? Thanks.
Yeah now that I'm looking at the sub types I notice at least one difference, something about choosing a rogue skill. But I still don't see the "choose from proficient skills" sub type you mentioned. What is the name of it?
Sometimes it shows up as Choose A Skill and other times as Choose Rogue Expertise (not sure why) but they both force you to pick from your proficient skills.
Maybe talking examples would help. How did they implement the Prodigy feat from Xanathar's, the Skill Empowerment 5th level spell, and the Rogue ability Expertise?
You can tell just by using them as starting points for a new feat or spell. Prodigy is implemented with a Proficiency modifier and an Expertise modifier with the choose a skill subtype. Skill Empowerment has an Expertise Ability Checks modifier with "Chosen skill in which the target already has proficiency" in the description.
OP, did you get this to work? I have a weapon I want to impliment the "If proficient you gain expertice" thing as well.
Unfortunately at this time the only option is to make two versions, one that someone can add if they are already proficient, one they add if they are not.
OP, did you get this to work? I have a weapon I want to impliment the "If proficient you gain expertice" thing as well.
Unfortunately at this time the only option is to make two versions, one that someone can add if they are already proficient, one they add if they are not.
Yeah I'm looking through my private homebrews and I don't see anything with this implemented. Looks like I gave up. This is all really confusing and hard to work with. It sounds like what MellieDM is saying would work though.
My recommendation: Create one version that adds 'Expertise'. This adds expertise to the skill if you already had the skill proficiency. HOWEVER it also gives you proficiency + expertise in the skill if you didn't have the skill proficiency prior to selecting the feat. In this case you just click the skill in your character sheet, click customise, and then select 'proficient' from the skill proficiency drop down list to remove expertise.
DO NOT create a version with 'Twice Proficiency' because it screws up your already learned proficiency if you had it from race, class, or background prior to taking the feat. This enables you to choose another skill proficiency which you shouldn't be able to do.
Just some clarification for someone new to all this. Is there 3 maybe 4 levels of skill checks here with proficiencies?
0- no idea at all
1- general skill check - no modifier added
2 - proficient - add modifier
3 - Expertise (or twice prof ass noted in this forum posting?) - Add double modifier
Are there higher levels of proficiencies?
Hi JerrKat!
To clarify for you:
1. Not proficient - You add the relevant + or - modifier from your attributes to the skill check
2. Proficient - You add the relevant + or - modifier from your attributes to the skill check AND your current proficiency bonus
3. Expertise - You add the relevant + or - modifier from your attributes to the skill check ANDdouble your current proficiency bonus
There is also another term used called twice proficiency which is essentially just expertise. You NEVER have more than double proficiency applied to a skill as per rules as written.
I'm making a feat and the wording I'd like to mimic is
Is that Proficiency, Twice Proficiency, Expertise, something else, or not implemented?
Second Question: Is there some kind of documentation or API we can reference to know this kind of stuff? We are just given a list of subType names with no description of what they are. Names aren't enough. The rules often use the same wording like what I've quoted as a template. That would be great to have in the documentation.
Edit: this is a type choice, not a subType.
Maybe I can rephrase this question.
What do each of these Feat Modifier types do?
Part 2 of the question: How do they interact with each other? How do they stack/stomp?
Proficiency: Add the level-appropriate proficiency bonus when using a skill or tool.
Expertise: Add the level-appropriate proficiency bonus twice when using a skill or tool.
Half Profieciency: Add half the level-appropriate proficiency bonus when using a skill or tool. Halves are generally rounded down in D&D. This is to say that anything less than a whole number is considered to be the next lowest whole number. Example: 5 / 2 = 2.5, rounding this down makes it just 2.
Half Proficiency Round Up: As Half Proficiency, but anything less than a whole number is considered the next whole number up. Example: 5 / 2 = 2.5, rounding this up makes it 3.
Twice Proficiency works just like expertise.
The standard bonuses can be found here. I suggest taking some time to read through the the character creation rules in the Compendium section from beginning to end. They may not be that exciting thing for you, but it's going to be hard to do the more fun custom things if you aren't familiar with that material.
Thanks for taking time to explain.
I was familiar with all the listed items in the rules (except Twice Proficiency). Mainly part 1 was a setup for my main question which was part 2. Also I wanted to expose the question, why have Twice Proficiency if it does the same thing as expertise? And still, my main question remains unanswered "How do I use the tools to implement this type of rule text"
Again, thanks for responding but unfortunately no info was given I didn't already know.
Expertise has a subtype that lets you pick from your proficient skills.
OP, did you get this to work?
I have a weapon I want to impliment the "If proficient you gain expertice" thing as well.
Unfortunately at this time the only option is to make two versions, one that someone can add if they are already proficient, one they add if they are not.
Crap.. Going to have it give a flat bonus instead.
Yeah I'm looking through my private homebrews and I don't see anything with this implemented. Looks like I gave up. This is all really confusing and hard to work with. It sounds like what MellieDM is saying would work though.
Problem is that mine effects 3 skills, and would then need 6 diffrent weapons.
Actually I think that would require 2^3=8 different weapons
| Skill 1 | Skill 2 | Skill 3
Weapon1 | proficiency | proficiency | proficiency
Weapon2 | proficiency | proficiency | expertise
Weapon3 | proficiency | expertise | proficiency
Weapon4 | proficiency | expertise | expertise
Weapon5 | expertise | proficiency | proficiency
Weapon6 | expertise | proficiency | expertise
Weapon7 | expertise | expertise | proficiency
Weapon8 | expertise | expertise | expertise
This is not really "supporting" the need. It's more of a work-around.
My recommendation:
Create one version that adds 'Expertise'. This adds expertise to the skill if you already had the skill proficiency.
HOWEVER it also gives you proficiency + expertise in the skill if you didn't have the skill proficiency prior to selecting the feat. In this case you just click the skill in your character sheet, click customise, and then select 'proficient' from the skill proficiency drop down list to remove expertise.
DO NOT create a version with 'Twice Proficiency' because it screws up your already learned proficiency if you had it from race, class, or background prior to taking the feat. This enables you to choose another skill proficiency which you shouldn't be able to do.
Just some clarification for someone new to all this. Is there 3 maybe 4 levels of skill checks here with proficiencies?
0- no idea at all
1- general skill check - no modifier added
2 - proficient - add modifier
3 - Expertise (or twice prof ass noted in this forum posting?) - Add double modifier
Are there higher levels of proficiencies?
There's also the Jack of All Trades 1/2 proficiency that Bards get.
There is nothing higher than expertise, I'm pretty sure. Other than just flat bonuses that get added from certain spells or items.
Hi JerrKat!
To clarify for you:
1. Not proficient - You add the relevant + or - modifier from your attributes to the skill check
2. Proficient - You add the relevant + or - modifier from your attributes to the skill check AND your current proficiency bonus
3. Expertise - You add the relevant + or - modifier from your attributes to the skill check AND double your current proficiency bonus
There is also another term used called twice proficiency which is essentially just expertise. You NEVER have more than double proficiency applied to a skill as per rules as written.
MFW 3 years pass and still no real changes to homebrew D:
dnd beyond i love u guys pls