I submitted this through the item creator, but was rejected for being non-magical. I looked for an example of this already being adapted and was unable to find anything.
One of my favorite cohorts in 3.5 used a foot bow and I really wanted to bring that into my campaign now that I am (FINALLY) returning to D&D. So, submitted for your approval, let me know what you think...
Raptoran Foot Bow
Foot Bows are large bows created by the Raptorans, a race similar to the Aarakocra. These bows are held with the talons on their feet and are drawn with the hands. Foot Bows vary in size from a normal longbow to larger and rely on the strength of the user to impart more force on the arrow. The arrows used also range in size, larger bows using larger arrows. Foot Bows up to the size of a normal longbow deal 1d8 damage, bows larger than this deal 1d12 damage and have a Strength requirement of 15. Arrows for larger Foot Bows cost 1.5X the amount their normal size counterparts cost. The Foot Bow is designed to be used in flight, firing down on the target, granting advantage to all attacks made in this fashion. The Foot Bow may also be used against other flying creatures, but loses the advantage unless the wielder's altitude can be clearly established as higher than the target's. The Foot Bow can be used from the ground, but requires the wielder to shoot from the supine position (prone) and attack rolls are made with a disadvantage.
Attack rolls use the Dex modifier, but damage is calculated with the Str modifier. When the Foot Bow is drawn with both hands, 1.5X the Str modifier is applied, rounded up.
Foot Bows benefit from all archery and applicable ranged attack feats and bonuses.
Not all Foot Bows are magical. The range of quality includes common (mundane), uncommon (+1), rare (+2), and very rare (+3).
Proficiency with a longbow allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with it.
As written, the mundane version is equivalent to a rare or very rare magic item. Having advantage on most attacks is quite powerful, as is multiplying ability bonuses. I realize that older editions had higher power weapons, but 5e is balanced around much smaller modifiers, where even a +1 can be a significant advantage. If you want something that's balanced as a non-magical weapon, just reskin a longbow as a footbow.
I might allow higher arrow damage if it had a separate proficiency that you needed to spend a feat to get, but there's no way you can get advantage and multiplying ability bonuses with a non-magical weapon in 5e.
The argument is based around physical conditions, not magical.
1) Firing straight down on an enemy would easily be considered an advantage, if not mechanically circumventing defenses.
2) The Str multiplier is based off the idea that you are using both arms in concert against the bow being braced by your legs. You would be able to apply more torque to the bow this way, magical or not.
3) The trade off is this: The weapon is useless in a hallway or room without adequate ceiling clearance for flight (or even outside with low tree coverage). Useful implementation is limited to races that can fly and hold the thing with their feet. I'll be a little stronger outside where I can fly over combat, but I have invested resources in something that will be useless in most of a dungeon.
Furthermore, for specific reference, I present the difference between the Foot Bow and a longbow for my ranger:
Str 17, Dex 20...
Longbow: 1d8+5.
Foot Bow: 1d8+5 with situational advantage.
Oversized Foot Bow: 1d12+5 with situational advantage.
So, for the times that I can use it, I get advantage and +2 (or +0) average damage in exchange for it being useless a good amount (if not most) of the time.
Consider that a giant wielding an oversized club will do more damage because the weapon is physically capable of inflicting more damage. The same principle applies here: a physically larger weapon inflicting more damage. The increase in str is represented by the eligible race's ability to hold and use the weapon differently.
I do appreciate you challenging this, that is what discussions like these are all about.
You are talking past me. I wasn't arguing real world logic, but game balance. Previous editions made a number of rules to try to line up with reality, but when there is a conflict between reality and game balance/simplicity in 5e, they chose balance and simplicity every time.
1) High ground is helpful in combat, and previous editions gave bonuses for this, but 5e deliberately removed this mechanic.
2) Using both hands to pull against a bow string can provide more force, if the bow is designed with a higher draw weight. 5e ignores strength with bows for simplicity, but if you wanted to implement this, it would require a bow made specifically for your strength score, and when you raised your strength on level up you would need a new bow. This would mean it would not be usable one handed (or by anyone weaker than you), which it shouldn't be anyway for balance since longbow requires 2 hands. In 2nd edition, a bow that could take advantage of high strength was 5 times normal cost. To take advantage of strength form both hands would presumably be higher.
3) Having disadvantage when on the ground instead of advantage is not a real hindrance, since in that case, you would just use a different weapon. Especially since it uses the same proficiency as a longbow, a non-magical footbow has the minimal investiture of resources of a handful of gold.
4) With a normal bow, the archer sights down the arrow for accuracy, this is not possible with a footbow. Even if a Raptorian is like a chimp and as dexterous with their feet as their hands, you would have greatly reduced accuracy using it more like a large slingshot than a bow. You would also be much more subject to the effects of wind while flying, and it would be virtually impossible to control your core muscles for full body firing, while moving the flight muscles on your back to maintain your position in the air. If you want to be realistic, then all shots with a footbow should be made with disadvantage.
5) Even if intended to be modeling real world forces and conditions, for balance purposes, it is equal to a pretty powerful magic item. A +3 bow is a very rare item that gives you +3 to hit and damage. Your bow gives advantage (equal to +5 to hit according to rules on passive roles with advantage) and between +1 to +3 to damage assuming dex and strength are equal. Your specific scores reduce this for right now, but are irrelevant when designing an item. Also, when you level up and raise your strength, you will have a bigger bonus to damage. So even without the extra damage from bigger arrows, you have a +5 to hit and potentially +3 to damage, making it better than a very rare magic item.
If you can convince a DM to allow it, good luck, but this is just too powerful for 5e rules, even if it makes some sense logically.
1) We're not just talking about high ground, we're talking about shooting straight down. I'll accept that bonuses for that were removed and honestly, it's not a big deal to lose advantage. It's more flavor than anything. (The mathematics of rolling 2 dice where only one outcome matters is more than I want to address in this discussion)
2) I'm not sure why a bow would need to be tailored to your exact strength. This doesn't play out for me on any level of reasoning. (Sorry, you're too strong to pull that string?) I suppose the argument could be made that the bow could only produce a maximum force and there is a minimum force required to do so... but even then it would be more like "RFB +3" where you needed a +3 modifier to use it, but you could only use 3x1.5 as the damage bonus. I still argue that the farther you draw it, the more force it imparts... but whatever. As far the one-handed bit, you lost me. Normal bows are held in one hand, drawn with the other (an oversimplification, I know, but it works for now) while the foot bow is held with 2 feet and drawn with one or 2 hands (again, one handed drawing would simply not draw the bow enough to increase the damage bonus, which is the entire point of limiting the multiplier to shots made with "2 hands").
3) Disadvantage is still just flavor here. The real disadvantage is that you're prone. So yes, you would just use another weapon. But then, when you're too close to use a bow, don't you just use another weapon anyway? We never discussed the cost of such a weapon. Unfortunately, rarity has been married to quality and power. Common may not necessarily mean readily available. Or cheap.
4) I wholly disagree with you on this entire entry. You could still sight down the arrow... just look down. Beyond that, we're talking about the physiology of a make believe race. Maybe they don't need to sight their arrows like this. Your entire argument about it being "virtually impossible" to control your core muscles cannot be backed up by the literature. Where is it written that the Aarakocra and Raptorans don't possess the innate and effortless ability to stabilize themselves in flight? You use the word realistic when describing the physiology of a creature that is the exact opposite of real.
5) A +3 bow would be nice and would add 3 to hit and damage... IN ADDITION any advantage and ability modifiers. The +3 of your magical bow is completely irrelevant to the modification to the ability modifier of the foot bow as it would also benefit from any advantage circumstances and the ability modifier of the wielder. (The whole +5 to hit equivalency is just silly, but whatever, I could live without advantage as a combat mechanic.)
The DM did, in fact, allow it and it was a lot of fun to use Saturday night... in the one room that I could fly in. >< DMs can be so cruel.
It's interesting thematically but the implementation is too clunky. I also agree that advantage for shooting straight down is out of place; the rules don't give you any benefits for doing this with a normal bow. Using two different abilities for attack rolls and damage rolls and having to recalculate your STR modifier when switching between 1 and 2 hands breaks too much convention, and as a rule of thumb you shouldn't have to calculate any numbers on the fly; it slows play down. Keep things simple. Use Strength and increase the damage dice if you use both hands similar to versatile weapons. That makes it easier to use and brings it in line with other weapons.
Regarding the discussion on matching bows to STR scores: archers normally draw a bow a fixed distance, locking their traps and elbows in place. Accuracy's all in the release so you need a reproducible posture and release of the string. Unruly_Cow is right in that you want to shoot further, you get a bow with more draw. The idea of pulling with two hands seems a bit sketchy - if you don't release both at precisely the same time your aim will be off - but handwaving that away, the same principle of pulling to a specific posture would apply.
All good points. I don't really think of it as recalculating on the fly so much as just having a second value, but that's splitting hairs. In the end, we're trying to apply real world human archery to fantasy world make believe creature foot archery. (There's a sentence nobody could have predicted they would ever type.)
So, for me and my group, the Foot Bow works as written. (Although I do really like the thought of just using the multiple damage dice- maybe 1d12 vs 1d8+1d6...) We don't feel it unbalances anything and it's a fun mechanic to role play here and there.
Maybe there's some folks out there who were never exposed to the Races of the Wild from 3rd edition and this will be something fun they can adapt to their group's liking. That's the beauty of all this... anything is possible.
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I submitted this through the item creator, but was rejected for being non-magical. I looked for an example of this already being adapted and was unable to find anything.
One of my favorite cohorts in 3.5 used a foot bow and I really wanted to bring that into my campaign now that I am (FINALLY) returning to D&D. So, submitted for your approval, let me know what you think...
Raptoran Foot Bow
Foot Bows are large bows created by the Raptorans, a race similar to the Aarakocra. These bows are held with the talons on their feet and are drawn with the hands. Foot Bows vary in size from a normal longbow to larger and rely on the strength of the user to impart more force on the arrow. The arrows used also range in size, larger bows using larger arrows. Foot Bows up to the size of a normal longbow deal 1d8 damage, bows larger than this deal 1d12 damage and have a Strength requirement of 15. Arrows for larger Foot Bows cost 1.5X the amount their normal size counterparts cost. The Foot Bow is designed to be used in flight, firing down on the target, granting advantage to all attacks made in this fashion. The Foot Bow may also be used against other flying creatures, but loses the advantage unless the wielder's altitude can be clearly established as higher than the target's. The Foot Bow can be used from the ground, but requires the wielder to shoot from the supine position (prone) and attack rolls are made with a disadvantage.
Attack rolls use the Dex modifier, but damage is calculated with the Str modifier. When the Foot Bow is drawn with both hands, 1.5X the Str modifier is applied, rounded up.
Foot Bows benefit from all archery and applicable ranged attack feats and bonuses.
Not all Foot Bows are magical. The range of quality includes common (mundane), uncommon (+1), rare (+2), and very rare (+3).
Proficiency with a longbow allows you to add your proficiency bonus to the attack roll for any attack you make with it.
As written, the mundane version is equivalent to a rare or very rare magic item. Having advantage on most attacks is quite powerful, as is multiplying ability bonuses. I realize that older editions had higher power weapons, but 5e is balanced around much smaller modifiers, where even a +1 can be a significant advantage. If you want something that's balanced as a non-magical weapon, just reskin a longbow as a footbow.
I might allow higher arrow damage if it had a separate proficiency that you needed to spend a feat to get, but there's no way you can get advantage and multiplying ability bonuses with a non-magical weapon in 5e.
The argument is based around physical conditions, not magical.
1) Firing straight down on an enemy would easily be considered an advantage, if not mechanically circumventing defenses.
2) The Str multiplier is based off the idea that you are using both arms in concert against the bow being braced by your legs. You would be able to apply more torque to the bow this way, magical or not.
3) The trade off is this: The weapon is useless in a hallway or room without adequate ceiling clearance for flight (or even outside with low tree coverage). Useful implementation is limited to races that can fly and hold the thing with their feet. I'll be a little stronger outside where I can fly over combat, but I have invested resources in something that will be useless in most of a dungeon.
Furthermore, for specific reference, I present the difference between the Foot Bow and a longbow for my ranger:
Str 17, Dex 20...
Longbow: 1d8+5.
Foot Bow: 1d8+5 with situational advantage.
Oversized Foot Bow: 1d12+5 with situational advantage.
So, for the times that I can use it, I get advantage and +2 (or +0) average damage in exchange for it being useless a good amount (if not most) of the time.
Consider that a giant wielding an oversized club will do more damage because the weapon is physically capable of inflicting more damage. The same principle applies here: a physically larger weapon inflicting more damage. The increase in str is represented by the eligible race's ability to hold and use the weapon differently.
I do appreciate you challenging this, that is what discussions like these are all about.
You are talking past me. I wasn't arguing real world logic, but game balance. Previous editions made a number of rules to try to line up with reality, but when there is a conflict between reality and game balance/simplicity in 5e, they chose balance and simplicity every time.
1) High ground is helpful in combat, and previous editions gave bonuses for this, but 5e deliberately removed this mechanic.
2) Using both hands to pull against a bow string can provide more force, if the bow is designed with a higher draw weight. 5e ignores strength with bows for simplicity, but if you wanted to implement this, it would require a bow made specifically for your strength score, and when you raised your strength on level up you would need a new bow. This would mean it would not be usable one handed (or by anyone weaker than you), which it shouldn't be anyway for balance since longbow requires 2 hands. In 2nd edition, a bow that could take advantage of high strength was 5 times normal cost. To take advantage of strength form both hands would presumably be higher.
3) Having disadvantage when on the ground instead of advantage is not a real hindrance, since in that case, you would just use a different weapon. Especially since it uses the same proficiency as a longbow, a non-magical footbow has the minimal investiture of resources of a handful of gold.
4) With a normal bow, the archer sights down the arrow for accuracy, this is not possible with a footbow. Even if a Raptorian is like a chimp and as dexterous with their feet as their hands, you would have greatly reduced accuracy using it more like a large slingshot than a bow. You would also be much more subject to the effects of wind while flying, and it would be virtually impossible to control your core muscles for full body firing, while moving the flight muscles on your back to maintain your position in the air. If you want to be realistic, then all shots with a footbow should be made with disadvantage.
5) Even if intended to be modeling real world forces and conditions, for balance purposes, it is equal to a pretty powerful magic item. A +3 bow is a very rare item that gives you +3 to hit and damage. Your bow gives advantage (equal to +5 to hit according to rules on passive roles with advantage) and between +1 to +3 to damage assuming dex and strength are equal. Your specific scores reduce this for right now, but are irrelevant when designing an item. Also, when you level up and raise your strength, you will have a bigger bonus to damage. So even without the extra damage from bigger arrows, you have a +5 to hit and potentially +3 to damage, making it better than a very rare magic item.
If you can convince a DM to allow it, good luck, but this is just too powerful for 5e rules, even if it makes some sense logically.
1) We're not just talking about high ground, we're talking about shooting straight down. I'll accept that bonuses for that were removed and honestly, it's not a big deal to lose advantage. It's more flavor than anything. (The mathematics of rolling 2 dice where only one outcome matters is more than I want to address in this discussion)
2) I'm not sure why a bow would need to be tailored to your exact strength. This doesn't play out for me on any level of reasoning. (Sorry, you're too strong to pull that string?) I suppose the argument could be made that the bow could only produce a maximum force and there is a minimum force required to do so... but even then it would be more like "RFB +3" where you needed a +3 modifier to use it, but you could only use 3x1.5 as the damage bonus. I still argue that the farther you draw it, the more force it imparts... but whatever. As far the one-handed bit, you lost me. Normal bows are held in one hand, drawn with the other (an oversimplification, I know, but it works for now) while the foot bow is held with 2 feet and drawn with one or 2 hands (again, one handed drawing would simply not draw the bow enough to increase the damage bonus, which is the entire point of limiting the multiplier to shots made with "2 hands").
3) Disadvantage is still just flavor here. The real disadvantage is that you're prone. So yes, you would just use another weapon. But then, when you're too close to use a bow, don't you just use another weapon anyway? We never discussed the cost of such a weapon. Unfortunately, rarity has been married to quality and power. Common may not necessarily mean readily available. Or cheap.
4) I wholly disagree with you on this entire entry. You could still sight down the arrow... just look down. Beyond that, we're talking about the physiology of a make believe race. Maybe they don't need to sight their arrows like this. Your entire argument about it being "virtually impossible" to control your core muscles cannot be backed up by the literature. Where is it written that the Aarakocra and Raptorans don't possess the innate and effortless ability to stabilize themselves in flight? You use the word realistic when describing the physiology of a creature that is the exact opposite of real.
5) A +3 bow would be nice and would add 3 to hit and damage... IN ADDITION any advantage and ability modifiers. The +3 of your magical bow is completely irrelevant to the modification to the ability modifier of the foot bow as it would also benefit from any advantage circumstances and the ability modifier of the wielder. (The whole +5 to hit equivalency is just silly, but whatever, I could live without advantage as a combat mechanic.)
The DM did, in fact, allow it and it was a lot of fun to use Saturday night... in the one room that I could fly in. >< DMs can be so cruel.
It's interesting thematically but the implementation is too clunky. I also agree that advantage for shooting straight down is out of place; the rules don't give you any benefits for doing this with a normal bow. Using two different abilities for attack rolls and damage rolls and having to recalculate your STR modifier when switching between 1 and 2 hands breaks too much convention, and as a rule of thumb you shouldn't have to calculate any numbers on the fly; it slows play down. Keep things simple. Use Strength and increase the damage dice if you use both hands similar to versatile weapons. That makes it easier to use and brings it in line with other weapons.
Regarding the discussion on matching bows to STR scores: archers normally draw a bow a fixed distance, locking their traps and elbows in place. Accuracy's all in the release so you need a reproducible posture and release of the string. Unruly_Cow is right in that you want to shoot further, you get a bow with more draw. The idea of pulling with two hands seems a bit sketchy - if you don't release both at precisely the same time your aim will be off - but handwaving that away, the same principle of pulling to a specific posture would apply.
All good points. I don't really think of it as recalculating on the fly so much as just having a second value, but that's splitting hairs. In the end, we're trying to apply real world human archery to fantasy world make believe creature foot archery. (There's a sentence nobody could have predicted they would ever type.)
So, for me and my group, the Foot Bow works as written. (Although I do really like the thought of just using the multiple damage dice- maybe 1d12 vs 1d8+1d6...) We don't feel it unbalances anything and it's a fun mechanic to role play here and there.
Maybe there's some folks out there who were never exposed to the Races of the Wild from 3rd edition and this will be something fun they can adapt to their group's liking. That's the beauty of all this... anything is possible.