I like the idea of a world where magic users are overpowered by design, and straight martial characters are weaker in comparison. The kind of world where magic gets things done, and nonmagic users; well, they do the best they can, but they are never going to be a match for a genuine caster. Consequently, there is a considerable trade in magic items that can be used by mundanes. Everything from an enchanted spade that lets you dig faster, to magic light sources that can illuminate your home. From simple magic mobiles to massive airships, that run on magic fuel, transporting those who cant just portal, around the world.
Primarily, I am thinking of a world where magic items are commonplace and seen in the homes and schools and workplaces of every mundane. However, those who can genuinely wield magic are mighty beings who are respected, worshipped and feared by all, and then you have the archmages.
Archmages have reached the pinnacle of mortal magic and have become the rulers of the world. They have powers so vast and terrible that just the mention of their names can turn back entire armies, and give the mightiest of dragons pause for thought. So enormously powerful are the Archmages, that an all-out between them, could quite literally threaten existence itself, and would likely result in the Gods stepping in to prevent the destruction of the world. Each one knows just how powerful the others are, though, and what a war between them would mean, and so they leave each other alone — staving off the threat of mutual magical annihilation, via a sophisticated system of trade agreements, intermarriages and none aggression pacts. As well as other political treaties, that have resulted in a relatively stable political and economic alliance and creating a peaceful, well-connected world. Albeit one so delicately balanced, that none of the Archmages can act in defence of themselves, or their kingdoms, for fear of upsetting the balance and bringing down armageddon upon them all.
So heroes and adventurers are still needed, to do what the Archmages can not - defend the Kingdoms from any and all threats. The difference between being a hero in this world thought, and the standard realms setting is that heroes and adventurers in this world work for their respective governments, and get certain boons that they typically do not in usual realms based worlds. Chief amongst these boons is that all heroes and adventurers can live a comfortable lifestyle, paid for by their respective governments, receive free healing from the clerics of the officially appointed religions, and can travel anywhere in the world for free - that is if they cat just portal there in the first place.
How could I make this kind of d&d world, while still using the 5e ruleset, and would such a world be fun to play in?
Any hints, tips, thoughts and constructive criticisms you might have will be much appreciated, and I look forward to reading all your comments.
XD
SocialFoxes
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Honestly, just having a setting where the PC characters can only play as non-casters would fulfill a lot of the requirements for this. Since the only magic casters would be NPCs, it wouldn't matter as much if they're overpowered compared to the core classes. If the players are playing a mostly non-caster class with access to a few spells (such as a Ranger or Arcane Trickster), you could justify it in flavor by simply saying that they have access to a magical tool of some kind that performs their class spells for them.
Beyond that it's just writing and creating the world (and finding a group of players willing to play under those restrictions :P ) If it's well done I think it could be fun, but it's still a big challenge to take on as a DM to craft a world like that using the 5E ruleset, which assumes a certain level of magical aptitude across the world. At the very least you're going to want to create some form of healing, since non-magical healing in 5E is super unreliable longterm.
If you want a world where magic is common and used for everyday things, play in Eberron. Magic street lights, telegraphs, and airships are all staples of the world. House Cannith employs artificers to make magic items and sell them in every major city.
If you want magic users to be overpowered, play it in earlier editions of D&D.
Here's my take on it. Magic users can be super powerful by just giving them way more spell slots then normal, like tripple everything, and remove concentration. But here's the thing, just because there some, or even a lot of, hugely powerful magic users (not Archmage powerful but still way OP) doesn't mean the PC's need to be as powerful as them. What I would do it make it that magic users go through a change where they go from PHB level caster to a "OO MY GOD" level caster. What I am thinking is that a magic user can get super charged by a Archmage. Different Archmages can have different criteria they use to choose people. Maybe they chose a new person every generation. You could make the PC's be competing to gain favor with these Archmages. Each player is trying to woo a different Archmage, or two or more are competing for the same Archmage. In short Just because your world has next level spell casters, doesn't mean that the PC's need to be as powerful. The world could be full of spell casters that managed to gain the favor of one Archmage or another. Heck it could be that most of the campaign is dealing the repercussions of having these powerful spell casters running around. How do you fight a caster that is like a god to you, let alone a Archmage (I would totally make a Archmage be the main bad guy). The players would need to have access to something to even the playing field, some sort of anti magic items, and effects. You could add in a ancient civilization that hated magic and developed defenses against it. Maybe they lost a war with the Archmages, perhaps due to the Archmages doing something horrible, now the PC's need to search through their ruins to find there super weapons to have a chance at wining. They could have a friendly Archmage that either grew too or always hated how they treated this ancient civilation. They hate what the Archmages had become and want to basically just end it / change things. So they help the party by giving them the downlow on the main baddy and the location of some ruins. So while the Campaign is very high magic, the PC's are constantly trying negate that magic. I could also see it ending with the PC's able to nullify all magic in the world at the end. It's up to them if they use it to just beat the bad guy or if they want to hit the reset button on the world basically.
Or get rid of any restrictions on the Clone and Wish spells and that "your victim will remember you cast Charm on them" thing with Charm Person. Seriously.
This makes me wonder why the DeathEaters in Harry Potter wasted so much energy trying to control Hogwarts when there were literally entire continents of Muggles that could have easily been mind-controlled. Muggles with access to tanks and fighter jets.
Or get rid of any restrictions on the Clone and Wish spells and that "your victim will remember you cast Charm on them" thing with Charm Person. Seriously.
This makes me wonder why the DeathEaters in Harry Potter wasted so much energy trying to control Hogwarts when there were entire continents of Muggles that could have easily been mind-controlled. Muggles with access to tanks and fighter jets.
I am going off-topic for a minute to talk about Harry Potter. In the Magical Beasts movies, we get to see a vision that Grindelwald has of the future. It's a future that he claims he wants to avoid, and we assume that it is the Nazis and the second world war, but what if it was a Wizarding War, fought by wizards who were using mind-controlled muggles?
Just like in the vision that Grindelwald shows us, the war would be devastating. Not only to Muggles and Wizards but the entire world and in such a war, at least the way Grindelwald describes it, both sides would fight each other to utter annihilation and the ruin of all.
Now let's jump back to the Harry Potter movies. Voldemort wants to rule the world - at least the Wizarding world, although we can assume he wants to rule over both worlds - and we know that he has been around since the time of Grindelwald in his original form as he tried to take the Elder Wand from Grindelwald, who no longer had it. Thus, since he is familiar enough with Grindelwald to know he had the Elder Wand, we can assume that he is also familiar with his visions as well, or at the very least, the cult we see spring up around him during the Magical Beasts movies.
If Voldemort was indeed aware of Grindelwald's visions of the future (which we can assume is his power and thus are at least prophetic), then it would made sense that Voldemort would instruct the Death Eaters to focus on Hogwarts rather than mind control Muggles since mind-controlling Muggles would result in the visions of Grindelwald coming to pass.
In short, Voldemort and the Death Eaters are trying to seize power and become the rulers of the world, without destroying it and they don't mind-control the Muggles because Voldemort is aware of Grindelwald's visions of what would happen if they did.
That is all doing some fiddling with the plot and timelines though, by at the very least, we can assume that Voldemort knows his history, and knows what happens when wizards try to use muggles for their ends.
Lastly... Plot. It makes a much better plot for a wizarding war and Harry, Hermione, Ron and Neville to be the heroes at the end.
Overpowering magics? As stated before, removing the concentration limit - or change the limit to a number of spell equal to the casting stat modifier (so up to 5). The other easies way to overpower them?
Make spell slots a short rest (and recharge 5-6 for warlocks).
That second one makes mages able to do more over longer periods of time with little rest. And making a warlock get 2-3 spell slots and each comes back on a 5-6 on a d6? Can be crazy good for them. Giving the casters (all of them) the ability to spam is how you overpower them.
What if a character was a caster? wouldnt that make the rest of the party kind of useless?Im not sure you should do it, but if you did, either ban casters from campaign, or make the spells they cast weak.
What if a character was a caster? wouldnt that make the rest of the party kind of useless?Im not sure you should do it, but if you did, either ban casters from campaign, or make the spells they cast weak.
Magic weapons and items are a thing in this world, so even if you can't naturally cast magic, you could still have a magic sword, that does higher damage, or a wand that let you throw fireballs. The difference is, those who can't naturally cast magic, would need to use magic weapons and items.
A Fighter with a magic sword that does additional lightning damage, could throw out just as much damage as a Sorcerer casting lightning blade. The difference is, the Fighter needs the magic lightning sword, where as the Sorcerer has a natural ability to just use magic.
On his own, yes the Fighter is much weaker than the Sorcerer and in a straight up fight, material weapons against magic, magic is going to win every time, but start adding in armour that is magic resistant, and a magic short bow that can shoot "fire arrows" and the playing field is suddenly no longer so one sided.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
So, this has been done in the Forgotten Realms; the nation of Thay. You might want to look that up for some other ideas, especially if you have Good vs Evil nations as a concept.
That said, if we take the perspective that the nations are sponsoring hiring the heroes, the typical martial classes (including spell hybrids) are lost or forbidden arts. The regular populace doesn't have anything more than the basic thug or city guard as far as training goes. Battlemaster techniques are only taught be well controlled teachers working for the government. So these trainers and the secrets they have, are the carrot that keeps the players "locked" to the government. So yes this could work as a background. The lower classes are still more concerned with getting by, getting fed, and not being run over by the nation next door. Their attitude would also be tempered by how they are treated.
Is it fun for the players, is a conversation for you an the players and nothing more. It could be fun. I also think that running a rebellion and bringing down the mages could be fun, because I have a martial class with mage slayer. But that's me, not your players.
I like the idea of a world where magic users are overpowered by design, and straight martial characters are weaker in comparison. The kind of world where magic gets things done, and nonmagic users; well, they do the best they can, but they are never going to be a match for a genuine caster. Consequently, there is a considerable trade in magic items that can be used by mundanes. Everything from an enchanted spade that lets you dig faster, to magic light sources that can illuminate your home. From simple magic mobiles to massive airships, that run on magic fuel, transporting those who cant just portal, around the world.
Primarily, I am thinking of a world where magic items are commonplace and seen in the homes and schools and workplaces of every mundane. However, those who can genuinely wield magic are mighty beings who are respected, worshipped and feared by all, and then you have the archmages.
Archmages have reached the pinnacle of mortal magic and have become the rulers of the world. They have powers so vast and terrible that just the mention of their names can turn back entire armies, and give the mightiest of dragons pause for thought. So enormously powerful are the Archmages, that an all-out between them, could quite literally threaten existence itself, and would likely result in the Gods stepping in to prevent the destruction of the world. Each one knows just how powerful the others are, though, and what a war between them would mean, and so they leave each other alone — staving off the threat of mutual magical annihilation, via a sophisticated system of trade agreements, intermarriages and none aggression pacts. As well as other political treaties, that have resulted in a relatively stable political and economic alliance and creating a peaceful, well-connected world. Albeit one so delicately balanced, that none of the Archmages can act in defence of themselves, or their kingdoms, for fear of upsetting the balance and bringing down armageddon upon them all.
So heroes and adventurers are still needed, to do what the Archmages can not - defend the Kingdoms from any and all threats. The difference between being a hero in this world thought, and the standard realms setting is that heroes and adventurers in this world work for their respective governments, and get certain boons that they typically do not in usual realms based worlds. Chief amongst these boons is that all heroes and adventurers can live a comfortable lifestyle, paid for by their respective governments, receive free healing from the clerics of the officially appointed religions, and can travel anywhere in the world for free - that is if they cat just portal there in the first place.
How could I make this kind of d&d world, while still using the 5e ruleset, and would such a world be fun to play in?
Any hints, tips, thoughts and constructive criticisms you might have will be much appreciated, and I look forward to reading all your comments.
XD
SocialFoxes
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Honestly, just having a setting where the PC characters can only play as non-casters would fulfill a lot of the requirements for this. Since the only magic casters would be NPCs, it wouldn't matter as much if they're overpowered compared to the core classes. If the players are playing a mostly non-caster class with access to a few spells (such as a Ranger or Arcane Trickster), you could justify it in flavor by simply saying that they have access to a magical tool of some kind that performs their class spells for them.
Beyond that it's just writing and creating the world (and finding a group of players willing to play under those restrictions :P ) If it's well done I think it could be fun, but it's still a big challenge to take on as a DM to craft a world like that using the 5E ruleset, which assumes a certain level of magical aptitude across the world. At the very least you're going to want to create some form of healing, since non-magical healing in 5E is super unreliable longterm.
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There is only thing keeping magic user at the (rougly) same power level as non-magic user: concentration.
If you want spellcasters to be overpowered, you really just need to remove that rule.
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If you want a world where magic is common and used for everyday things, play in Eberron. Magic street lights, telegraphs, and airships are all staples of the world. House Cannith employs artificers to make magic items and sell them in every major city.
If you want magic users to be overpowered, play it in earlier editions of D&D.
Here's my take on it. Magic users can be super powerful by just giving them way more spell slots then normal, like tripple everything, and remove concentration. But here's the thing, just because there some, or even a lot of, hugely powerful magic users (not Archmage powerful but still way OP) doesn't mean the PC's need to be as powerful as them. What I would do it make it that magic users go through a change where they go from PHB level caster to a "OO MY GOD" level caster. What I am thinking is that a magic user can get super charged by a Archmage. Different Archmages can have different criteria they use to choose people. Maybe they chose a new person every generation. You could make the PC's be competing to gain favor with these Archmages. Each player is trying to woo a different Archmage, or two or more are competing for the same Archmage. In short Just because your world has next level spell casters, doesn't mean that the PC's need to be as powerful. The world could be full of spell casters that managed to gain the favor of one Archmage or another. Heck it could be that most of the campaign is dealing the repercussions of having these powerful spell casters running around. How do you fight a caster that is like a god to you, let alone a Archmage (I would totally make a Archmage be the main bad guy). The players would need to have access to something to even the playing field, some sort of anti magic items, and effects. You could add in a ancient civilization that hated magic and developed defenses against it. Maybe they lost a war with the Archmages, perhaps due to the Archmages doing something horrible, now the PC's need to search through their ruins to find there super weapons to have a chance at wining. They could have a friendly Archmage that either grew too or always hated how they treated this ancient civilation. They hate what the Archmages had become and want to basically just end it / change things. So they help the party by giving them the downlow on the main baddy and the location of some ruins. So while the Campaign is very high magic, the PC's are constantly trying negate that magic. I could also see it ending with the PC's able to nullify all magic in the world at the end. It's up to them if they use it to just beat the bad guy or if they want to hit the reset button on the world basically.
Or get rid of any restrictions on the Clone and Wish spells and that "your victim will remember you cast Charm on them" thing with Charm Person. Seriously.
This makes me wonder why the DeathEaters in Harry Potter wasted so much energy trying to control Hogwarts when there were literally entire continents of Muggles that could have easily been mind-controlled. Muggles with access to tanks and fighter jets.
I am going off-topic for a minute to talk about Harry Potter. In the Magical Beasts movies, we get to see a vision that Grindelwald has of the future. It's a future that he claims he wants to avoid, and we assume that it is the Nazis and the second world war, but what if it was a Wizarding War, fought by wizards who were using mind-controlled muggles?
Just like in the vision that Grindelwald shows us, the war would be devastating. Not only to Muggles and Wizards but the entire world and in such a war, at least the way Grindelwald describes it, both sides would fight each other to utter annihilation and the ruin of all.
Now let's jump back to the Harry Potter movies. Voldemort wants to rule the world - at least the Wizarding world, although we can assume he wants to rule over both worlds - and we know that he has been around since the time of Grindelwald in his original form as he tried to take the Elder Wand from Grindelwald, who no longer had it. Thus, since he is familiar enough with Grindelwald to know he had the Elder Wand, we can assume that he is also familiar with his visions as well, or at the very least, the cult we see spring up around him during the Magical Beasts movies.
If Voldemort was indeed aware of Grindelwald's visions of the future (which we can assume is his power and thus are at least prophetic), then it would made sense that Voldemort would instruct the Death Eaters to focus on Hogwarts rather than mind control Muggles since mind-controlling Muggles would result in the visions of Grindelwald coming to pass.
In short, Voldemort and the Death Eaters are trying to seize power and become the rulers of the world, without destroying it and they don't mind-control the Muggles because Voldemort is aware of Grindelwald's visions of what would happen if they did.
That is all doing some fiddling with the plot and timelines though, by at the very least, we can assume that Voldemort knows his history, and knows what happens when wizards try to use muggles for their ends.
Lastly... Plot. It makes a much better plot for a wizarding war and Harry, Hermione, Ron and Neville to be the heroes at the end.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Overpowering magics? As stated before, removing the concentration limit - or change the limit to a number of spell equal to the casting stat modifier (so up to 5). The other easies way to overpower them?
Make spell slots a short rest (and recharge 5-6 for warlocks).
That second one makes mages able to do more over longer periods of time with little rest. And making a warlock get 2-3 spell slots and each comes back on a 5-6 on a d6? Can be crazy good for them. Giving the casters (all of them) the ability to spam is how you overpower them.
What if a character was a caster? wouldnt that make the rest of the party kind of useless?Im not sure you should do it, but if you did, either ban casters from campaign, or make the spells they cast weak.
Zargorth Dakzonar, High Elf Sorceror
Magic weapons and items are a thing in this world, so even if you can't naturally cast magic, you could still have a magic sword, that does higher damage, or a wand that let you throw fireballs. The difference is, those who can't naturally cast magic, would need to use magic weapons and items.
A Fighter with a magic sword that does additional lightning damage, could throw out just as much damage as a Sorcerer casting lightning blade. The difference is, the Fighter needs the magic lightning sword, where as the Sorcerer has a natural ability to just use magic.
On his own, yes the Fighter is much weaker than the Sorcerer and in a straight up fight, material weapons against magic, magic is going to win every time, but start adding in armour that is magic resistant, and a magic short bow that can shoot "fire arrows" and the playing field is suddenly no longer so one sided.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
So, this has been done in the Forgotten Realms; the nation of Thay. You might want to look that up for some other ideas, especially if you have Good vs Evil nations as a concept.
That said, if we take the perspective that the nations are sponsoring hiring the heroes, the typical martial classes (including spell hybrids) are lost or forbidden arts. The regular populace doesn't have anything more than the basic thug or city guard as far as training goes. Battlemaster techniques are only taught be well controlled teachers working for the government. So these trainers and the secrets they have, are the carrot that keeps the players "locked" to the government. So yes this could work as a background. The lower classes are still more concerned with getting by, getting fed, and not being run over by the nation next door. Their attitude would also be tempered by how they are treated.
Is it fun for the players, is a conversation for you an the players and nothing more. It could be fun. I also think that running a rebellion and bringing down the mages could be fun, because I have a martial class with mage slayer. But that's me, not your players.
Have you discussed this with them yet?