The title says it all. I currently have a succubus on the run from both the church and my players. I made her responsible for the creation of a cult dedicated to Mammon before I realized that the stat block doesn’t actually say if it’s a devil or not. I also have a cult of Graz’zt on the rise, and I was wondering if I could make her, or another succubus, the creator of the second cult as well.
It’s a long story, but basically I’m working on a concept of Law vs. Chaos, so I need a general idea of whether to align her with devils or demons, or if she can serve as a mercenary of sorts.
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I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
Succubi and incubi inhabit all of the Lower Planes, and the lascivious dark-winged fiends can be found in service to devils, demons, night hags, rakshasas, and yugoloths. Asmodeus, ruler of the Nine Hells, uses these fiends to tempt mortals to perform evil acts. The demon lord Graz’zt keeps succubi and incubi as advisers and consorts.
As I understand it, through different previous editions they had a tendency to switch back and forth. In 5e, they are neither, though might work with either (night hags are the same way).
Oops. I didn't actually answer the question asked in the topic. Succubae are neither Demons nor Devils. They typically serve either side in the Blood War. They make perfectly decent mercenaries. I call them Daemons.
Neither - their alignment (Neutral Evil) prevents them from being a Devil or Demon, which absolutely must be Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil (respectively).
I posted the answer, with the rules text from 5E succubi, guys. Succubi and Incubi will work for literally anybody and are not themselves devils or demons or even yugoloths, the third faction in the Blood War everyone ignores. Their children, Cambions, are the same way, incidentally. It actually genuinely matters for PC mechanics, too. Neither Summon Greater Demon nor Infernal Calling work on them.
Execpt that the outer planes are aligned. And even tossing formal alignment designations aside (which is tricky given the structure of the outer planes), they are still very defined.
So? There's more than two lower planes, there's definitely more fiend types than just demons and devils, and there isn't always a neat one to one correspondence between planes and creature types either. Which upper plane is the true home for angels? Because the Monster Manual doesn't give one and also states "Even chaotic good deities command lawful good angels, knowing that the angels’ dedication to order best allows them to fulfill divine commands."
Yugoloths are another example of a non-devil, non-demon natural-born fiend, and then there's the even messier cases of fiends that were originally something else, like Nightmares being transformed pegasi or the previously mentioned Night Hags being transformed fey.
Execpt that the outer planes are aligned. And even tossing formal alignment designations aside (which is tricky given the structure of the outer planes), they are still very defined. Toss aside the definitions and they lose purpose.
But seriously, thank you all. Reading all the different arguments has been really helpful. Now I just need to think of a good pair of names for it! Maybe I’ll make its female name Camille.
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I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
But seriously, thank you all. Reading all the different arguments has been really helpful. Now I just need to think of a good pair of names for it! Maybe I’ll make its female name Camille.
In 4e, interestingly enough, succubi and incubi were devils. Nowadays in 5e they are neither demon nor devil, as their neutral evil alignment indicates. I believe it’s the PHB that says if a devil stopped being Lawful Evil, it would cease to be a devil. Applying that same principle to demons, it seems clear to me that succubi and incubi are neither demon nor devil.
I’m not sure I’d call them daemons, either, though, because IIRC that was an alternate term for yugoloths specifically, not just NE fiends in general.
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The title says it all. I currently have a succubus on the run from both the church and my players. I made her responsible for the creation of a cult dedicated to Mammon before I realized that the stat block doesn’t actually say if it’s a devil or not. I also have a cult of Graz’zt on the rise, and I was wondering if I could make her, or another succubus, the creator of the second cult as well.
It’s a long story, but basically I’m working on a concept of Law vs. Chaos, so I need a general idea of whether to align her with devils or demons, or if she can serve as a mercenary of sorts.
I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
Succubi and incubi inhabit all of the Lower Planes, and the lascivious dark-winged fiends can be found in service to devils, demons, night hags, rakshasas, and yugoloths. Asmodeus, ruler of the Nine Hells, uses these fiends to tempt mortals to perform evil acts. The demon lord Graz’zt keeps succubi and incubi as advisers and consorts.
Way back when, critters from the Lower Planes that were neither Demons nor Devils were "Daemons". Seems like a serviceable term.
<Insert clever signature here>
As I understand it, through different previous editions they had a tendency to switch back and forth. In 5e, they are neither, though might work with either (night hags are the same way).
Oops. I didn't actually answer the question asked in the topic. Succubae are neither Demons nor Devils. They typically serve either side in the Blood War. They make perfectly decent mercenaries. I call them Daemons.
<Insert clever signature here>
Sometimes a fiend is just a fiend.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Neither - their alignment (Neutral Evil) prevents them from being a Devil or Demon, which absolutely must be Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil (respectively).
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
I posted the answer, with the rules text from 5E succubi, guys. Succubi and Incubi will work for literally anybody and are not themselves devils or demons or even yugoloths, the third faction in the Blood War everyone ignores. Their children, Cambions, are the same way, incidentally. It actually genuinely matters for PC mechanics, too. Neither Summon Greater Demon nor Infernal Calling work on them.
So? There's more than two lower planes, there's definitely more fiend types than just demons and devils, and there isn't always a neat one to one correspondence between planes and creature types either. Which upper plane is the true home for angels? Because the Monster Manual doesn't give one and also states "Even chaotic good deities command lawful good angels, knowing that the angels’ dedication to order best allows them to fulfill divine commands."
Yugoloths are another example of a non-devil, non-demon natural-born fiend, and then there's the even messier cases of fiends that were originally something else, like Nightmares being transformed pegasi or the previously mentioned Night Hags being transformed fey.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
And yet the point remains.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Succubus are Neutral Evil, so that makes them daemons
Alignment matters in the lower planes. CE are Demons, LE are devils, and NE are daemons.
.... I opened a can of worms, didn’t I?
But seriously, thank you all. Reading all the different arguments has been really helpful. Now I just need to think of a good pair of names for it! Maybe I’ll make its female name Camille.
I live with several severe autoimmune conditions. If I don’t get back to you right away, it’s probably because I’m not feeling well.
Vickie Vixon
Estheroth, findom extraordinaire.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
In 4e, interestingly enough, succubi and incubi were devils. Nowadays in 5e they are neither demon nor devil, as their neutral evil alignment indicates. I believe it’s the PHB that says if a devil stopped being Lawful Evil, it would cease to be a devil. Applying that same principle to demons, it seems clear to me that succubi and incubi are neither demon nor devil.
I’m not sure I’d call them daemons, either, though, because IIRC that was an alternate term for yugoloths specifically, not just NE fiends in general.