So, I think this set of events is within RAW and RAI but I wanted to run it past some folks outside my bubble. It is a little overkill but is something that would have been situationally useful in a real game event.
Situation - a guy is standing next to you attacking you in melee and you really want/need to hit him with a ranged attack instead of melee (for a variety of situational reasons)
Bonus Action - Feint - as far as I can tell this does not require a melee weapon or any weapon at all just that they be within 5 ft to use the bonus action. Since it attaches to your next attack roll this turn with no other delimiters it should affect a melee, spell, improvised, ranged whatever attack roll.... I also don't see anything that says I have to stay within 5 ft after using the bonus action or that my next attack roll has to be made within 5ft.
Action: Disengage and move away. Using my action here because on the off chance they have sentinel (or similar ability) I don't want to burn my Action Surge and then be stuck next to them anyhow. (yes, a stupidly rare convergence, but... this will happen if you get lax with it)
Action Surge: Attack at range with advantage as it is still my same turn. Either with a ranged weapon or ranged spell attack. If I got stuck with Sentinel hit or couldn't move away would decide just taking a normal ranged/spell attack was worth burning action surge (advantage/disad offset) Probably as I would know I couldn't 'get away' easily.
I could also do with without the dance of action surge/disengage if I was willing to eat the chance of an AoO. but again, situationally important and worth the overkill.
I don't see anything wrong with this sequence, it is rather well thought, actually.
The only difference would be if you are in good shape HP-wise and are confident the enemy does not have Sentinel, you could avoid the Disengage in order to make two attack actions. Only the first attack wold benefit from the Feint Advantage, but it's till a damage output increase if the other attack(s) at one d20 hit.
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Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
Just remember that you can only draw or sheathe a weapon once during a round without using up your Action, as per Player's Handbook page 190 (or here, with the list of examples being here, for some reason :p ): "You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action." ... "If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action." One of the examples provided is "draw or sheathe a sword".
So, if you start next to your target with a sword out, you can't sheathe it and draw a bow during the same turn without an action.
Admittedly, you can drop your first weapon to draw the second, but that kind of puts a dent into repeating the process efficiently.
Generally, Action Surge being used to add an attack "feels" boring/uninteresting to me. If the timing is right to put someone down, it is ok. But I am actively looking for other ways to use that action more tactically and highlight it in situations like this. A well timed hide or dodge.
Another one is:
Use action surge to Help our Rogue, then use commanders strike so he gets an extra sneak attack with advantage so he can use sharpshooter. Yes a one time thing but a potential to swing a whole fight if used right. Sure burns a bonus action, one of my attacks, my action surge, and the rogues reaction, but it can be a huge hit.
Use action surge to Help our Rogue, then use commanders strike so he gets an extra sneak attack with advantage so he can use sharpshooter. Yes a one time thing but a potential to swing a whole fight if used right. Sure burns a bonus action, one of my attacks, my action surge, and the rogues reaction, but it can be a huge hit.
Sharpshooter and Sneak Attack don't mix well unless your chances of hitting are extremely high (e.g. you have Elven Accuracy or the enemy is a Gelatinous Cube.) As your Sneak Attack dice go up you risk more damage by taking the penalty. Doesn't help that Rogues don't have access to Archery Fighting Style like Rangers or Fighters, and if you take the feat early you're not maxing out your DEX.
For example, even with advantage and +6 to hit, Sharpshooter is a bad trade for a 5th level Rogue against a 16 AC enemy.
At some AC point and total hit ppints, yes, there is a break even that taking the increased chance to hit will result in more consistent damage over time. The difference between an even damage output and a burst/spikey dmg output. My opinion is that rogue is supposed to be spikey and should embrace that ability to land big hits. But that is a different discussion...
This is about 1 turn of mine giving a rogue an "extra" chance to use their sneak attack with advantage without needing to coordinate someone else. He would get to decide if a near certain hit is more important than a bigger hit. To me that feels like a better use of action surge then just attacking more... again a feeling that may not be supported by the minutiae of theoretical effectiveness. Feels more fun and collaborative though so that, for me, would offset any slight differences.
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So, I think this set of events is within RAW and RAI but I wanted to run it past some folks outside my bubble. It is a little overkill but is something that would have been situationally useful in a real game event.
Situation - a guy is standing next to you attacking you in melee and you really want/need to hit him with a ranged attack instead of melee (for a variety of situational reasons)
Bonus Action - Feint - as far as I can tell this does not require a melee weapon or any weapon at all just that they be within 5 ft to use the bonus action. Since it attaches to your next attack roll this turn with no other delimiters it should affect a melee, spell, improvised, ranged whatever attack roll.... I also don't see anything that says I have to stay within 5 ft after using the bonus action or that my next attack roll has to be made within 5ft.
Action: Disengage and move away. Using my action here because on the off chance they have sentinel (or similar ability) I don't want to burn my Action Surge and then be stuck next to them anyhow. (yes, a stupidly rare convergence, but... this will happen if you get lax with it)
Action Surge: Attack at range with advantage as it is still my same turn. Either with a ranged weapon or ranged spell attack. If I got stuck with Sentinel hit or couldn't move away would decide just taking a normal ranged/spell attack was worth burning action surge (advantage/disad offset) Probably as I would know I couldn't 'get away' easily.
I could also do with without the dance of action surge/disengage if I was willing to eat the chance of an AoO. but again, situationally important and worth the overkill.
I don't see anything wrong with this sequence, it is rather well thought, actually.
The only difference would be if you are in good shape HP-wise and are confident the enemy does not have Sentinel, you could avoid the Disengage in order to make two attack actions. Only the first attack wold benefit from the Feint Advantage, but it's till a damage output increase if the other attack(s) at one d20 hit.
Born in Italy, moved a bunch, living in Spain, my heart always belonged to Roleplaying Games
This looks good.
Just remember that you can only draw or sheathe a weapon once during a round without using up your Action, as per Player's Handbook page 190 (or here, with the list of examples being here, for some reason :p ): "You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action." ... "If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action." One of the examples provided is "draw or sheathe a sword".
So, if you start next to your target with a sword out, you can't sheathe it and draw a bow during the same turn without an action.
Admittedly, you can drop your first weapon to draw the second, but that kind of puts a dent into repeating the process efficiently.
Thanks.
Generally, Action Surge being used to add an attack "feels" boring/uninteresting to me. If the timing is right to put someone down, it is ok. But I am actively looking for other ways to use that action more tactically and highlight it in situations like this. A well timed hide or dodge.
Another one is:
Use action surge to Help our Rogue, then use commanders strike so he gets an extra sneak attack with advantage so he can use sharpshooter. Yes a one time thing but a potential to swing a whole fight if used right. Sure burns a bonus action, one of my attacks, my action surge, and the rogues reaction, but it can be a huge hit.
At some AC point and total hit ppints, yes, there is a break even that taking the increased chance to hit will result in more consistent damage over time. The difference between an even damage output and a burst/spikey dmg output. My opinion is that rogue is supposed to be spikey and should embrace that ability to land big hits. But that is a different discussion...
This is about 1 turn of mine giving a rogue an "extra" chance to use their sneak attack with advantage without needing to coordinate someone else. He would get to decide if a near certain hit is more important than a bigger hit. To me that feels like a better use of action surge then just attacking more... again a feeling that may not be supported by the minutiae of theoretical effectiveness. Feels more fun and collaborative though so that, for me, would offset any slight differences.