The frightened condition is not "im scared", it's "im so terrified I will do everything in my power to stay away from the source of my fear and am so distracted by that source that I can't do anything else properly"
Technically, the condition would aid in a contested check against intimidation because the condition grants disadvantage on all ability checks while the frightened creature can see the source of its fear. but by default, by the time you are frightened, you are past the point of coherent action around your fear, so intimidation really isn't adding much by itself.
intimidation by itself doesn’t mean that the creature you are intimidating is actually going to do anything at all. It just means that they believe your threats (of violence or otherwise) are absolutely genuine.
For example:
More than half a lifetime ago* when I was, I think, a freshman in college, I was working at a gas station in the evenings as a teller and jockey.* I was closing up one night when two guys came in and robbed the station at gunpoint. There I was kneeling on the floor behind the register with the barrel of a Saturday night special jammed up against the back of my head like an execution. Guy told me to open the safe or he was gonna blow my brains all over the register. Was I intimidated? Absolutely. (I challenge anyone to not feel at least a little intimidated kneeling on the ground with a gun against the back of their head.) So he clearly passed his Intimidation check. Did I wet myself and turn into a whimpering mess? Nope. (I wasn’t gonna die with piss on my pants. If I pissed myself after the lead poisoning there would be nothin’ I could do about that. But I wasn’t gonna do it before he shot me, no sir.) I point blank said “then you go’n hafta shoot me ‘cause I don’t know the combination.” (continued in spoiler)
Just because you intimidate someone doesn’t mean they are necessarily afraid of you, or that they are guaranteed to comply with anything.
Apparently I passed my persuasion check because they took the notes from the till and the cord* to the receiver, told me to lay down and count to 20, and they left. (Better believe I kept my ass down for a sloooww 20 count.) I didn’t have a cell phone at the time.* So when I stood up I went outside and asked the first person I saw if he had a phone, he didn’t* either. But then I saw someone I knew across the street and yelled “Hey Frank!” (Her name was Tina, but I called her Frank. Don’t ask.) Anyway, she came over with her friends and one* of them had a cell phone so I used it to call the cops and Frank and them went on their way.
When the popo finally showed the eff up almost 30 minutes later (the police station was less then a mile away 🙄), a few stayed to do their thing and some others took me to the station for questioning and such. After a couple hours of 🐂💩, finally the one cop played his hand. He starts talking’ about the crime scene was too clean, and everything was too convenient, yadditayaddita, ipso facto he thinks I did it and he was gonna throw me away.
By this point, it was, like, midnight-thirty. I was tired, hungry, cranky, and coming down hard from the adrenaline. That wangrod, I can assure you, most definitely did not pass his flippin’ intimidation check. Nosir.
I looked him dead in the face and asked him if he was [expletive] stupid, or if he thought I was. Then I said “If I was gonna [expletive] rob my own [expletive] job, why the [expletive] would I [expletive]-[expletive] do it 10 [expletive] minutes after I made a $500 [expletive] safe drop instead of before? And if I was gonna [expletive] do it for the [expletive] asswipe money left in the [expletive] till for the opening [expletive] shift, why the [expletive] would I [expletive] do it like this and get you [expletive] [expletive] cops in—[expletive]—volved for all this [expletive] 🐂💩?!?” Then I told him “I could have just [expletive] taken the [expletive]-[expletive] money from the [expletive]-[expletive] till, locked the [expletive] up like I always [expletive] do, gone the [expletive] home, and then come the [expletive] back at 3 in the [expletive] morning and thrown a [expletive]-[expletive] brick through the [expletive]-[expletive] window, then been the [expletive] back at home before you [expletive] cops ever showed the [expletive] up. What the [expletive] do I pay my [expletive]-[expletive] taxes for when they just [expletive] piss it the [expletive] away on dumb [expletive]-[expletive] like you?!?”
Apparently I passed my whatever the heck check that would be, because he just got this dumbass look on his face, looked around the room at all the other cops who also had the same dumbass looks on their faces, mumbled something I couldn’t hear over the pissed off look on my face, and then told me I was free to go.
Epilogue: I will tell you that now, half a lifetime later, looking back, that guy with that gun was just as scared as I was. He didn’t wanna shoot nobody, he was just tryin’a pay off his Christmas debt, or put shoes on his kids’ feet or something.’ The other guy was even more nervous. You know how some people are antsy when they’re scared, and some are extra still? I’m just glad it wasn’t the antsy one holding the gun. In some ways I feel bad for them. But what’s it tell ya that I kinda empathize with the two guys who robbed me and put a gun to my head; but I got nothin for the ones who’s job it was to protect & [expletive]-[expletive] serve that night? Effed up, i’nit?
*(Yeah, we’re talkin’ long enough ago that PA gas’s stations still had full service, self serve was only 98¢/gallon, landline phones had cords that connected the receiver to the base, and only about 1 person in 5 had a cell phone.)
A brave persone isn’t brave because they weren’t scared, that’s not bravery. A brave person is brave because they were scared, but they did it anyway.
You could absolutely succeed at your check to intimidate the everlovin bejeepers outta someone so bad their entire family line will have a bejeeper deficiency for generations after that. That person would absolutely believe your threats and be so skerd. But if they’re brave enough, they might still say no.
Me, I’da opened that safe no problemo, but it wasn’t my circus and those weren’t my monkeys. I had no skin in the game. If it was something precious to me, or to someone I cared deeply about… I dunno, maybe I’da given him the same answer and taken my luck rolling deception. 🤷♂️ I’ll never know for sure. But that wasn’t the point. Some folks think a passed intimidation check turns the other person into a blubbering, pants wetting mess who will do whatever you tell them to. They’ll spill all the beans, they’ll betray their own mother, whatever. Was I intimidated? Absatively. Was I scared? No, honestly no. I wasn’t gonna do anything stupid and my ass shot, but I wasn’t afraid. Now that night still haunts me occasionally. But I can remember other times where I would have definitely qualified as frightened, full on GTFO mode. Those were times I was scared 💩less. Intimidated ≠ Frightened. When I was that terrified and was using my movement to get ass far away from the sources of my fear as I could, if the thing standing between me and “away” was those two guys and their gun, I’da told them the get the heck outta my way.
You could argue you have nothing to gain by intimidating a frightened target. Like throwing a torch at the sun.
Information. In an interrogation setting, frightened doesn't make them feel obligated to tell you anything in and of itself.
Neither does intimidation, neccesarily.
Neither does knocking all opponents out necessarily mean winning the battle, however it sure gives you good odds.....
Nice non sequitur. Back on topic, basically all three interaction skills (persuasion, deception, intimitadtion) can be used to make people give you information.
Yes they can, but they use different approaches. And any of the three could benefit from the other party being terrified. The original post I responded to was saying nothing can be gained by intimidating a frightened opponent. I pointed out something that could be gained. What, exactly, is your problem with this?
As I aleady said in my first reply, just because you intimidate someone doesn't make them obligated to tell you anything. I thought that was a fairly straightforward statement, is there something that you need explained to you further?
The frightened condition is not "im scared", it's "im so terrified I will do everything in my power to stay away from the source of my fear and am so distracted by that source that I can't do anything else properly"
Technically, the condition would aid in a contested check against intimidation because the condition grants disadvantage on all ability checks while the frightened creature can see the source of its fear. but by default, by the time you are frightened, you are past the point of coherent action around your fear, so intimidation really isn't adding much by itself.
intimidation by itself doesn’t mean that the creature you are intimidating is actually going to do anything at all. It just means that they believe your threats (of violence or otherwise) are absolutely genuine.
For example:
More than half a lifetime ago* when I was, I think, a freshman in college, I was working at a gas station in the evenings as a teller and jockey.* I was closing up one night when two guys came in and robbed the station at gunpoint. There I was kneeling on the floor behind the register with the barrel of a Saturday night special jammed up against the back of my head like an execution. Guy told me to open the safe or he was gonna blow my brains all over the register. Was I intimidated? Absolutely. (I challenge anyone to not feel at least a little intimidated kneeling on the ground with a gun against the back of their head.) So he clearly passed his Intimidation check. Did I wet myself and turn into a whimpering mess? Nope. (I wasn’t gonna die with piss on my pants. If I pissed myself after the lead poisoning there would be nothin’ I could do about that. But I wasn’t gonna do it before he shot me, no sir.) I point blank said “then you go’n hafta shoot me ‘cause I don’t know the combination.” (continued in spoiler)
Just because you intimidate someone doesn’t mean they are necessarily afraid of you, or that they are guaranteed to comply with anything.
Apparently I passed my persuasion check because they took the notes from the till and the cord* to the receiver, told me to lay down and count to 20, and they left. (Better believe I kept my ass down for a sloooww 20 count.) I didn’t have a cell phone at the time.* So when I stood up I went outside and asked the first person I saw if he had a phone, he didn’t* either. But then I saw someone I knew across the street and yelled “Hey Frank!” (Her name was Tina, but I called her Frank. Don’t ask.) Anyway, she came over with her friends and one* of them had a cell phone so I used it to call the cops and Frank and them went on their way.
When the popo finally showed the eff up almost 30 minutes later (the police station was less then a mile away 🙄), a few stayed to do their thing and some others took me to the station for questioning and such. After a couple hours of 🐂💩, finally the one cop played his hand. He starts talking’ about the crime scene was too clean, and everything was too convenient, yadditayaddita, ipso facto he thinks I did it and he was gonna throw me away.
By this point, it was, like, midnight-thirty. I was tired, hungry, cranky, and coming down hard from the adrenaline. That wangrod, I can assure you, most definitely did not pass his flippin’ intimidation check. Nosir.
I looked him dead in the face and asked him if he was [expletive] stupid, or if he thought I was. Then I said “If I was gonna [expletive] rob my own [expletive] job, why the [expletive] would I [expletive]-[expletive] do it 10 [expletive] minutes after I made a $500 [expletive] safe drop instead of before? And if I was gonna [expletive] do it for the [expletive] asswipe money left in the [expletive] till for the opening [expletive] shift, why the [expletive] would I [expletive] do it like this and get you [expletive] [expletive] cops in—[expletive]—volved for all this [expletive] 🐂💩?!?” Then I told him “I could have just [expletive] taken the [expletive]-[expletive] money from the [expletive]-[expletive] till, locked the [expletive] up like I always [expletive] do, gone the [expletive] home, and then come the [expletive] back at 3 in the [expletive] morning and thrown a [expletive]-[expletive] brick through the [expletive]-[expletive] window, then been the [expletive] back at home before you [expletive] cops ever showed the [expletive] up. What the [expletive] do I pay my [expletive]-[expletive] taxes for when they just [expletive] piss it the [expletive] away on dumb [expletive]-[expletive] like you?!?”
Apparently I passed my whatever the heck check that would be, because he just got this dumbass look on his face, looked around the room at all the other cops who also had the same dumbass looks on their faces, mumbled something I couldn’t hear over the pissed off look on my face, and then told me I was free to go.
Epilogue: I will tell you that now, half a lifetime later, looking back, that guy with that gun was just as scared as I was. He didn’t wanna shoot nobody, he was just tryin’a pay off his Christmas debt, or put shoes on his kids’ feet or something.’ The other guy was even more nervous. You know how some people are antsy when they’re scared, and some are extra still? I’m just glad it wasn’t the antsy one holding the gun. In some ways I feel bad for them. But what’s it tell ya that I kinda empathize with the two guys who robbed me and put a gun to my head; but I got nothin for the ones who’s job it was to protect & [expletive]-[expletive] serve that night? Effed up, i’nit?
*(Yeah, we’re talkin’ long enough ago that PA gas’s stations still had full service, self serve was only 98¢/gallon, landline phones had cords that connected the receiver to the base, and only about 1 person in 5 had a cell phone.)
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Not being able to comply, it's not the same as withholding intentionally. I would say the mechanics in the game sense would probably be different.
A brave persone isn’t brave because they weren’t scared, that’s not bravery. A brave person is brave because they were scared, but they did it anyway.
You could absolutely succeed at your check to intimidate the everlovin bejeepers outta someone so bad their entire family line will have a bejeeper deficiency for generations after that. That person would absolutely believe your threats and be so skerd. But if they’re brave enough, they might still say no.
Me, I’da opened that safe no problemo, but it wasn’t my circus and those weren’t my monkeys. I had no skin in the game. If it was something precious to me, or to someone I cared deeply about… I dunno, maybe I’da given him the same answer and taken my luck rolling deception. 🤷♂️ I’ll never know for sure. But that wasn’t the point. Some folks think a passed intimidation check turns the other person into a blubbering, pants wetting mess who will do whatever you tell them to. They’ll spill all the beans, they’ll betray their own mother, whatever. Was I intimidated? Absatively. Was I scared? No, honestly no. I wasn’t gonna do anything stupid and my ass shot, but I wasn’t afraid. Now that night still haunts me occasionally. But I can remember other times where I would have definitely qualified as frightened, full on GTFO mode. Those were times I was scared 💩less. Intimidated ≠ Frightened. When I was that terrified and was using my movement to get ass far away from the sources of my fear as I could, if the thing standing between me and “away” was those two guys and their gun, I’da told them the get the heck outta my way.
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As I aleady said in my first reply, just because you intimidate someone doesn't make them obligated to tell you anything. I thought that was a fairly straightforward statement, is there something that you need explained to you further?
I can easily explain it Kotath. Players and DMs always have problems with agency when it comes to social rolls.
I however, feel like the game rules should apply.