Hello all, I am not sure how something works, and need some help.
if my character uses True Polymorph and turns into a Adult Gold Dragon... and I maintain concentration for 1 hour, making the transformation permanent... I lose the ability to cast True Polymorph now in my Dragon form... yes, I know I can Shape Change but how can I get back to my original form? Is the only way using Dispel Magic, or entering an Anti-Magic field?
Dispel Magic and other effects that dispel spell effects are the only permanent solution at that point that doesn't involve dropping your dragon form to 0 hitpoints. Antimagic Fields would only suppress the change, not end it permanently, and if you were a caster class to start you would be unable to cast spells while in the field.
Thank you iconarising, So... either cut myself down (over 200 hp) and revert, ... that will break the permanence, yes? And otherwise just Dispel Magic... gotcha.
Thank you iconarising, So... either cut myself down (over 200 hp) and revert, ... that will break the permanence, yes? And otherwise just Dispel Magic... gotcha.
~Mad
Cutting yourself down will end the permanence. The permanence only refers to the change of standard duration and the requirement for concentration, it does not change the other text of the spell, which says the spell ends when the transformed creature is reduced to 0 hp.
Problem with the Dispel Magic route is that you're likely going to have to cast it a bunch of times - because you're getting rid of a 9th level spell - and you can only guarantee removal by casting dispel at 9th. And Contingency and Glyph of Warding can only store one each - though at least the Glyph can store a 9th level dispel if you cast it at 9th.
There are a bunch of forms that an adult gold dragon can shapeshift into that are capable of casting dispel magic. Death knight, androsphinx, mummy lord, ki-rin, mezzoloth, the list goes on and on.
There are a bunch of forms that an adult gold dragon can shapeshift into that are capable of casting dispel magic. Death knight, androsphinx, mummy lord, ki-rin, mezzoloth, the list goes on and on.
Change Shape. The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that has a challenge rating no higher than its own, or back into its true form.
Death Knight is Undead. Androsphinx is a Monstrosity. Mummy Lord is Undead. Ki-rin is Celestial. Mezzoloth is a Fiend.
There are no non-unique* Beasts or Humanoids that can natively cast dispel magic.
There are a bunch of forms that an adult gold dragon can shapeshift into that are capable of casting dispel magic. Death knight, androsphinx, mummy lord, ki-rin, mezzoloth, the list goes on and on.
It can transform into none of those though, it is limited to humanoids and beasts only (the above are undead, monstrosities, celestials, and fiends).
Furthermore, the transformation does not allow for class features. Most spellcasting (except for innate spells) are still class based even for monsters (as indicated in their statblock, which usually says something to the extent of "and can cast the following (class) spells" or "and has the following (class) spells prepared"), so a DM might say that standard spellcasting is a class feature even for npc's and monsters
…the Glyph can store a 9th level dispel if you cast it at 9th.
Glyph of warding cannot contain a 9th level spell, as that would require two 9th level slots to cast (one for the upcast of glyph, one for the spell stored inside it).
Fortunately, since there is no issue with setting up several low level Glyphs somewhere, the player could try the Ring of Spell Storing and Contingency for a decent chance (58%) of renewable success and hold an arbitrary number of Glyphs in reserve somewhere else. At level 17+, dropping 200~2000 gold on plans C~L is entirely doable. That's comparable to high level material components.
I lose the ability to cast True Polymorph now in my Dragon form.
Why?
Is this a GM ruling or does it say so under the spell?
Under the spell…the spell replaces your statistics. Class features (ie spellcasting) are part of your statistics. It also specifically forbids spellcasting unless the creature you transform into can cast spells, which your standard dragon can’t
There are a bunch of forms that an adult gold dragon can shapeshift into that are capable of casting dispel magic. Death knight, androsphinx, mummy lord, ki-rin, mezzoloth, the list goes on and on.
Change Shape. The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast that has a challenge rating no higher than its own, or back into its true form.
Death Knight is Undead. Androsphinx is a Monstrosity. Mummy Lord is Undead. Ki-rin is Celestial. Mezzoloth is a Fiend.
There are no non-unique* Beasts or Humanoids that can natively cast dispel magic.
There are a bunch of forms that an adult gold dragon can shapeshift into that are capable of casting dispel magic. Death knight, androsphinx, mummy lord, ki-rin, mezzoloth, the list goes on and on.
It can transform into none of those though, it is limited to humanoids and beasts only (the above are undead, monstrosities, celestials, and fiends).
Furthermore, the transformation does not allow for class features. Most spellcasting (except for innate spells) are still class based even for monsters (as indicated in their statblock, which usually says something to the extent of "and can cast the following (class) spells" or "and has the following (class) spells prepared"), so a DM might say that standard spellcasting is a class feature even for npc's and monsters
You are both totally right. Now I'm trying to figure out why I thought they could shape change into anything they wanted with an equal or lower CR.
Hello all,
I am not sure how something works, and need some help.
if my character uses True Polymorph and turns into a Adult Gold Dragon... and I maintain concentration for 1 hour, making the transformation permanent...
I lose the ability to cast True Polymorph now in my Dragon form... yes, I know I can Shape Change but how can I get back to my original form?
Is the only way using Dispel Magic, or entering an Anti-Magic field?
Thanks for your help,
~Mad
Dispel Magic and other effects that dispel spell effects are the only permanent solution at that point that doesn't involve dropping your dragon form to 0 hitpoints. Antimagic Fields would only suppress the change, not end it permanently, and if you were a caster class to start you would be unable to cast spells while in the field.
Thank you iconarising,
So... either cut myself down (over 200 hp) and revert, ... that will break the permanence, yes?
And otherwise just Dispel Magic... gotcha.
~Mad
Cutting yourself down will end the permanence. The permanence only refers to the change of standard duration and the requirement for concentration, it does not change the other text of the spell, which says the spell ends when the transformed creature is reduced to 0 hp.
Thank you very much sir...
Guess that is a lot of meat to whittle through. lol
~Mad
Two high level options to consider would be giving yourself access to a couple of "Force Quit" options, such as Contingency(Dispel Magic), or Glyph of Warding(Dispel Magic) in a Portable Hole.
Also, get a Ring of Spell Storing, which your new form can wear.
Problem with the Dispel Magic route is that you're likely going to have to cast it a bunch of times - because you're getting rid of a 9th level spell - and you can only guarantee removal by casting dispel at 9th. And Contingency and Glyph of Warding can only store one each - though at least the Glyph can store a 9th level dispel if you cast it at 9th.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
There are a bunch of forms that an adult gold dragon can shapeshift into that are capable of casting dispel magic. Death knight, androsphinx, mummy lord, ki-rin, mezzoloth, the list goes on and on.
Death Knight is Undead.
Androsphinx is a Monstrosity.
Mummy Lord is Undead.
Ki-rin is Celestial.
Mezzoloth is a Fiend.
There are no non-unique* Beasts or Humanoids that can natively cast dispel magic.
It can transform into none of those though, it is limited to humanoids and beasts only (the above are undead, monstrosities, celestials, and fiends).
Furthermore, the transformation does not allow for class features. Most spellcasting (except for innate spells) are still class based even for monsters (as indicated in their statblock, which usually says something to the extent of "and can cast the following (class) spells" or "and has the following (class) spells prepared"), so a DM might say that standard spellcasting is a class feature even for npc's and monsters
Glyph of warding cannot contain a 9th level spell, as that would require two 9th level slots to cast (one for the upcast of glyph, one for the spell stored inside it).
Fortunately, since there is no issue with setting up several low level Glyphs somewhere, the player could try the Ring of Spell Storing and Contingency for a decent chance (58%) of renewable success and hold an arbitrary number of Glyphs in reserve somewhere else. At level 17+, dropping 200~2000 gold on plans C~L is entirely doable. That's comparable to high level material components.
Why?
Is this a GM ruling or does it say so under the spell?
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Under the spell…the spell replaces your statistics. Class features (ie spellcasting) are part of your statistics. It also specifically forbids spellcasting unless the creature you transform into can cast spells, which your standard dragon can’t
That is a sad state of being.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You are both totally right. Now I'm trying to figure out why I thought they could shape change into anything they wanted with an equal or lower CR.
Maybe you were confusing or conflating it with Shapechange? (Though that still restricts undead and construct).
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).