True Polymorph and legendary actions

If somone could help me out with their understanding on the rules, would a PC true polymorphing into a creature with legendary action  (ie: Sphinx) have access to those legendary actions considering they are now a true version of that creature or does it still count as only assuming the form. My understanding that rule quoted below was in reference to Shapechange which specifically states you do not get legendary actions.

If a creature assumes the form of a legendary creature, such as through a spell, it doesn't gain that form's legendary actions, lair actions, or regional effects.

You have a good point. In the spell description there is no mention to the legendary actions, whether the polymorphic creature can use it or not.

As a DM, I would say no, for the same reasons they are not allowed using Shapechange.

The rules governing legendary creatures say clearly that you don't get legendary actions if you assume the form of a legendary creature.

There is nothing specific in the true polymorph spell that contradicts that, so that spell doesn't change anything and the above general rule applies.

That the shapechange spell makes specific mention of not getting legendary actions is a redundant mention of the general rule, not evidence that spells not containing redundant mentions of the rules are intended to break the general rule.

Thanks for the assistance peeps, I know the rule I quoted was from an errata. Anyway, that puts a dampener on my plans of being an all powerful beholder!

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

The rules governing legendary creatures say clearly that you don't get legendary actions if you assume the form of a legendary creature.

There is nothing specific in the true polymorph spell that contradicts that, so that spell doesn't change anything and the above general rule applies.

That the shapechange spell makes specific mention of not getting legendary actions is a redundant mention of the general rule, not evidence that spells not containing redundant mentions of the rules are intended to break the general rule.

I think polymorph is limited to beasts, and so there are no creatures with legendary actions within its CR range and creature restrictions, which is why I think it doesn't mention them 

I say that and there is probably that one except out there. 

Quote from bhthephoenix >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

The rules governing legendary creatures say clearly that you don't get legendary actions if you assume the form of a legendary creature.

There is nothing specific in the true polymorph spell that contradicts that, so that spell doesn't change anything and the above general rule applies.

That the shapechange spell makes specific mention of not getting legendary actions is a redundant mention of the general rule, not evidence that spells not containing redundant mentions of the rules are intended to break the general rule.

I think polymorph is limited to beasts, and so there are no creatures with legendary actions within its CR range and creature restrictions, which is why I think it doesn't mention them 

 

I say that and there is probably that one except out there. 

 Polymorph has only one valid target with legendary actions on Beyond, and it's a third-party supplement.

However, True Polymorph doesn't have such a type limitation.

Quote from Athanar90 >>

Quote from bhthephoenix >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

The rules governing legendary creatures say clearly that you don't get legendary actions if you assume the form of a legendary creature.

There is nothing specific in the true polymorph spell that contradicts that, so that spell doesn't change anything and the above general rule applies.

That the shapechange spell makes specific mention of not getting legendary actions is a redundant mention of the general rule, not evidence that spells not containing redundant mentions of the rules are intended to break the general rule.

I think polymorph is limited to beasts, and so there are no creatures with legendary actions within its CR range and creature restrictions, which is why I think it doesn't mention them 

 

I say that and there is probably that one except out there. 

 Polymorph has only one valid target with legendary actions on Beyond, and it's a third-party supplement.

However, True Polymorph doesn't have such a type limitation.

 Does true polymorph still not include the legendary actions part?

Quote from bhthephoenix >>

Quote from Athanar90 >>

Quote from bhthephoenix >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

The rules governing legendary creatures say clearly that you don't get legendary actions if you assume the form of a legendary creature.

There is nothing specific in the true polymorph spell that contradicts that, so that spell doesn't change anything and the above general rule applies.

That the shapechange spell makes specific mention of not getting legendary actions is a redundant mention of the general rule, not evidence that spells not containing redundant mentions of the rules are intended to break the general rule.

I think polymorph is limited to beasts, and so there are no creatures with legendary actions within its CR range and creature restrictions, which is why I think it doesn't mention them 

 

I say that and there is probably that one except out there. 

 Polymorph has only one valid target with legendary actions on Beyond, and it's a third-party supplement.

However, True Polymorph doesn't have such a type limitation.

 Does true polymorph still not include the legendary actions part?

 Specifically? No. However, this is in the Monster Manual:

"If a creature assumes the form of a legendary creature, such as through a spell, it doesn’t gain that form’s legendary actions, lair actions, or regional effects."

This doesn't specify how a creature assumes the form. So the spell doesn't need the text. Any spell that has it, it's just reminder text.

Quote from Athanar90 >>

Quote from bhthephoenix >>

Quote from Athanar90 >>

Quote from bhthephoenix >>

Quote from AaronOfBarbaria >>

The rules governing legendary creatures say clearly that you don't get legendary actions if you assume the form of a legendary creature.

There is nothing specific in the true polymorph spell that contradicts that, so that spell doesn't change anything and the above general rule applies.

That the shapechange spell makes specific mention of not getting legendary actions is a redundant mention of the general rule, not evidence that spells not containing redundant mentions of the rules are intended to break the general rule.

I think polymorph is limited to beasts, and so there are no creatures with legendary actions within its CR range and creature restrictions, which is why I think it doesn't mention them 

 

I say that and there is probably that one except out there. 

 Polymorph has only one valid target with legendary actions on Beyond, and it's a third-party supplement.

However, True Polymorph doesn't have such a type limitation.

 Does true polymorph still not include the legendary actions part?

 Specifically? No. However, this is in the Monster Manual:

"If a creature assumes the form of a legendary creature, such as through a spell, it doesn’t gain that form’s legendary actions, lair actions, or regional effects."

This doesn't specify how a creature assumes the form. So the spell doesn't need the text. Any spell that has it, it's just reminder text.

 Exactly that.

In fact, the thread was resurrected and I don't know why yet :D The answer was already given by @AaronOfBarbaria in 2017 :D

Sorry to necro this, but I couldn't find that restriction about Legendary Actions in the 2024 Monster Manual.

Is it somewhere else, or does the restriction no longer exist?

Will be leveling up soon and get to take Shapechange for a spin (as ridiculous and broken as it is).

Yep! That's it. They indeed removed that restriction in 2024. I also learned that recently, ending a year long Mandela Effect on myself. You can indeed Shapechange and True Polymorph into Legendary creatures and use their entire stat block, including Legendary Actions.

Quote from Natrel >>

Yep! That's it. They indeed removed that restriction in 2024. I also learned that recently, ending a year long Mandela Effect on myself. You can indeed Shapechange and True Polymorph into Legendary creatures and use their entire stat block, including Legendary Actions.

 Wow! Alrighty then. Gonna be a wild ride for the end of our Eve of Ruin campaign, lol.

Talk about it with your DM first. This is extremely OP and they might want to house-rule it out, especially if they didn't know about this.

Quote from Natrel >>

Talk about it with your DM first. This is extremely OP and they might want to house-rule it out, especially if they didn't know about this.

It's possible this whole thing was an oversight, too. Up until fairly late in the 5.5e development process, they were intending to get rid of the whole concept of Legendary Actions entirely, which would've included removing all the language that referred to them from all of the rules, including the restriction on things like Shapechange.

They swerved away from that at practically the last minute, and while no one has said this publicly, it does seem plausible that they neglected to entirely undo all the changes they made related to it.

How this wasn't corrected in an erratum is beyond me, then.

Quote from Natrel >>

How this wasn't corrected in an erratum is beyond me, then.

Hi, you must be new here.    Jokes aside, theres been sporadic cases like this that were left unaddressed for the entire length of 5e until 5.5e/2024 attempted to address it.  So it stands to reason that now that its an even smaller team, and much of previous designers are gone, that things will continue on this way, unless pressure from higher up thinks it'll affect sales.  

Honestly, the main problem with shapechange and true polymorph isn't access to legendary actions, it's not like a legendary with legendary actions is that much stronger than a non-legendary creature of the same CR. The real problems are:

1. Polymorph, True Polymorph, and Shapechange should not have a CR limit based on the level of the target, it should be based on the level of the spell. Based on general standards for spells, a CR cap of about 10 is correct for true polymorph and shapechange. This makes legendary actions mostly moot, as there are very few legendary creatures at CR 10 or lower.
2. Legendary resistance is a problematic trait.

1. The Boon of Fluid Form is basically that... The consequence is basically everybody turning into a Giff Warlord. They still get a shitton of temp HP in the process, and they don't even need to concentrate. The thing, when you shape-shift, you mostly commit to that form, even if you get to keep your spellcasting, you still have no access to metamagic, bardic inspiration, or anything else. So most players will always use their highest spell slot no matter what, which isn't much different than a CR cap based on the level.

2. To be fair, Legendary Resistance is a bad mechanic on monsters too. 

Quote from Natrel >>

So most players will always use their highest spell slot no matter what, which isn't much different than a CR cap based on the level.

 It's different when the CR cap is a lot lower. There are basically four broken level 9 spells: prismatic wall, shapechange, true polymorph, and wish (there are also several garbage 9th level spells), and two of them have the same fix.

You misunderstood what I meant by "based on". I meant "proportional", not equal. Limiting the CR to "half the player's level" is still based on level.