"Copying that spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it."
That sentence is followed by "You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation", so unless there is a RAW limitation where other spellcasters style of magic is incompatible with the way wizards do it (I don't recall?), being taught the sounds and gestures required directly should check out?
Wizards can learn spells through one of three means:
Levelling up - the conceit being they've spent the time since they last levelled developing two new spells)
Copy another wizards spellbook - this requires time and money due to every wizard using their own bespoke 'magical programming language' and if a wizard wants to copy one of their fellows spells, they need to experiment to figure it out
Copy a scroll - this is like copying a spellbook in that it requires (expensive and time consuming) experimentation, but it's risky. Spell scrolls are like live grenades; the magic is infused into them ready to be cast and if a wizard isn't careful, it can go off and damage the scroll beyond use. This is why copying a scroll requires an arcana check.
A wizard cannot, by the rules, learn a spell through any other means. They can't observe another class such as a druid or bard performing magic and copy that, because each class performs magic in different ways.
However, any spellcaster that is proficient in arcana can scribe a scroll (per the rules from Xanathar's Guide to Everything). This process requires time and money (magic is expensive), but would allow a wizard to learn a spell from another class (provided it's on the wizard spell list). Basically, by scribing the spell into the scroll, the druid for example would be formalising the magic in a way the wizard could understand.
"Copying that spell into your spellbook involves reproducing the basic form of the spell, then deciphering the unique system of notation used by the wizard who wrote it."
That sentence is followed by "You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation", so unless there is a RAW limitation where other spellcasters style of magic is incompatible with the way wizards do it (I don't recall?), being taught the sounds and gestures required directly should check out?
Thematically, it's kinda all over all of the casting classes that magic works differently for each.
Mechanically, however, the only way that actually comes through is by the Spell Lists.
To teach directly? I would say no. All casting classes manipulate the weave differently (Wizards study the weave itself to find how to manipulate it, Warlocks draw on the power of their patron, Sorcerers use power native to their being, Clerics from their deity, etc...) so teaching directly is probably not an option as the means to access the power for a spell are different even if the effect is the same.
But I do agree that any spellcasting class could theoretically write a scroll and then the wizard could interpret it and learn it. by writing it down they are inscribing those means in a way that can be decoded and understood.
Wizards can learn spells through one of three means:
Levelling up - the conceit being they've spent the time since they last levelled developing two new spells)
Copy another wizards spellbook - this requires time and money due to every wizard using their own bespoke 'magical programming language' and if a wizard wants to copy one of their fellows spells, they need to experiment to figure it out
Copy a scroll - this is like copying a spellbook in that it requires (expensive and time consuming) experimentation, but it's risky. Spell scrolls are like live grenades; the magic is infused into them ready to be cast and if a wizard isn't careful, it can go off and damage the scroll beyond use. This is why copying a scroll requires an arcana check.
A wizard cannot, by the rules, learn a spell through any other means.
I say this first bullet is exactly how you get what you’re asking for--although not really what you want. Want a Druid to teach a wizard a spell? Sure, it takes about a level to do it and it’s one of the spells included in the level-up. The means by which the wizard actually learned the spells during level-up is totally open to flavor.
Copy a scroll - this is like copying a spellbook in that it requires (expensive and time consuming) experimentation, but it's risky. Spell scrolls are like live grenades; the magic is infused into them ready to be cast and if a wizard isn't careful, it can go off and damage the scroll beyond use. This is why copying a scroll requires an arcana check.
What arcana check? Is this an optional rule in the DMG or something?
But I do agree that any spellcasting class could theoretically write a scroll and then the wizard could interpret it and learn it. by writing it down they are inscribing those means in a way that can be decoded and understood.
That just sounds like teaching directly with more steps. I get the rules haven't specifically said you can teach directly, but there's no logical reason why you couldn't. If you argue that every caster does spell casting differently then 2 things logically follow. First, You can't use a spell scroll to learn a spell unless it was written by a wizard, as the method of the spell casting for the scroll would be different from how you could do it as a wizard. Second, you shouldn't be able to recognize what spell any other class type is casting since that would require exact knowledge of how that particular class casts that spell. While it's possible you could study exactly how that class casts the spell, you'd effectively have learned how to cast it by that point. You could have wiggle room for k owing cleric spells since they get their spells from a diety. Sorcerers would straight up be out since presumably they all cast spells a different way from each other making it completely unrecognizable even amongst sorcerers.
I feel like there's a lot of implication in the mechanics and lore to say every class has to use the same mechanics to cast spells, they just learn the mechanics thru different means. The most compelling evidence is that every class needs the exact same components to cast the same spell.
In short, logically, you *should* be able to teach a wizard how to cast a spell you know. If a spell scroll is universal, and you can write a scroll, you should easily be able to simply guide someone else through writing it. I do realize there are no actual rules stating this, so you'd be technically correct by the rules to not allow this, but the rules also don't say disintegrate kills you when it turns you into a pile of fine dust, so by the same token, you would not be wrong to make death saving throws, get healed, and then play as a pile of fine dust the rest of the game.
What arcana check? Is this an optional rule in the DMG or something?
This comes directly from the item description for a Spell Scroll:
A wizard spell on a spell scroll can be copied just as spells in spellbooks can be copied. When a spell is copied from a spell scroll, the copier must succeed on an Intelligence (Arcana) check with a DC equal to 10 + the spell’s level. If the check succeeds, the spell is successfully copied. Whether the check succeeds or fails, the spell scroll is destroyed.
When the above description refers to a "wizard spell", the common interpretation is that this spell appears on the Wizard Spell list. If the same spell appears on the Wizard Spell list and also another class's Spell list, then this process of a creature from one class writing it down and then a Wizard learning it should work.
I'll also point out that there is some evidence in the rule book that the 3 sources listed above are not the only sources by which a Wizard can learn a spell. That text is this:
You might find other spells during your adventures. You could discover a spell recorded on a scroll in an evil wizard’s chest, for example, or in a dusty tome in an ancient library.
The formal method given in the Your Spellbook sidebar describes the procedure for learning a spell by Copying a Spell into the Book. But it doesn't actually say that the source of such copying must be from a Spell Scroll or a Spellbook, and the above text seems to indicate that spells might be written in other places as well.
Fair enough. I hadn't seen that in spell scroll description. I find it very weird that this isn't addressed in the wizard class description, since it seems that's the usually way to find spells. Actually, that's just bad writing, can't sugar coat that one.
I will point out a couple things: the two places the Spellbook sidebar mentions finding spells are a scroll (so a scroll) and a book with a spell in it (so a spellbook). There is no reason to think that because a book is called a tome, happens to be dusty, and was found in an ancient library that it isn't a spellbook. There isn't any evidence in the base rules of spells being found elsewhere -- Like just written on napkins or whatever. I can't be sure of every piece of adventure loot.
What about multiclassing? If a wizard multiclass into druid than he can use both spell slots availeble to cast right? Shouldnt that imply that you can/are able to use or cope to know how to? In this example I still want to stick to only wizard spells list. Magic and winds of magic are the same, Spells are the sąme, so in a way all casting classes use same "resource" Just through or by other means.
What about multiclassing? If a wizard multiclass into druid than he can use both spell slots availeble to cast right? Shouldnt that imply that you can/are able to use or cope to know how to? In this example I still want to stick to only wizard spells list. Magic and winds of magic are the same, Spells are the sąme, so in a way all casting classes use same "resource" Just through or by other means.
Mechanically, the only time you have two distinct spell slots in 5e is when you're part Warlock and part another caster; Pact Magic slots are separate from regular slots. Otherwise, if you gain spell slots from multiple classes, the class levels are aggregated and then applied against one master table. You can then use the resulting spell slots for any spell you have gained through a class feature or another feature that allows the use of spells slots.
However, that's just a gameplay mechanism and so the lore/roleplay/worldbuilding implications you can draw from it are limited. Basically, though, spell slots represent the "internal reserve" of magic an individual has; how that reserve is then applied to produce magic effects and consequently what effects can be produces and what mental attribute strengthens them is dictated by your class. Each class essentially has their own technique, as previously mentioned, and a multiclass just means you've learned two different techniques, not that you can cross apply the techniques.
If you gain a spell from leveling Druid, you've learned one method of how to produce that effect, but even if you have Wizard levels as well and that's a spell that's on both class lists you can't cast the spell using Wizard methods because this level up reflects you expanding your knowledge of Druidic methods, which are separate from Wizard methods. They're like two different programming languages, you can't drop a bit of code from one into a program for the other.
Regardless of multiclassing, it's also worth remembering the following rules (emphasis mine):
“When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.”
And this rule from Spellcasting section in the Multiclassing chapter:
Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, and half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes. Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table.
If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare. You can use those slots, but only to cast your lower-level spells. If a lower-level spell that you cast, like burning hands, has an enhanced effect when cast using a higher-level slot, you can use the enhanced effect, even though you don't have any spells of that higher level.
For example, if you are the aforementioned ranger 4/wizard 3, you count as a 5th-level character when determining your spell slots: you have four 1st-level slots, three 2nd-level slots, and two 3rd-level slots. However, you don't know any 3rd-level spells, nor do you know any 2nd-level ranger spells. You can use the spell slots of those levels to cast the spells you do know — and potentially enhance their effects.
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A sorcerer or druid know a spell that wizard can learn. Can he/she teach the spell to the wizard?
In this way, the wizard still needs the GP and time cost and the sorcerer/druid spend the time. However, they don't need to find a spell scroll.
That sentence is followed by "You must practice the spell until you understand the sounds or gestures required, then transcribe it into your spellbook using your own notation", so unless there is a RAW limitation where other spellcasters style of magic is incompatible with the way wizards do it (I don't recall?), being taught the sounds and gestures required directly should check out?
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Ok, a follow-up question.
Can sorcerer or druid write spell scroll? (with gp cost, time spend and maybe even proficiency required)
Wizards can learn spells through one of three means:
A wizard cannot, by the rules, learn a spell through any other means. They can't observe another class such as a druid or bard performing magic and copy that, because each class performs magic in different ways.
However, any spellcaster that is proficient in arcana can scribe a scroll (per the rules from Xanathar's Guide to Everything). This process requires time and money (magic is expensive), but would allow a wizard to learn a spell from another class (provided it's on the wizard spell list). Basically, by scribing the spell into the scroll, the druid for example would be formalising the magic in a way the wizard could understand.
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Thematically, it's kinda all over all of the casting classes that magic works differently for each.
Mechanically, however, the only way that actually comes through is by the Spell Lists.
To write a scroll you only need to be proficient with the Arcana skill.
Nothing at all stopping a Druid or Sorceror from writting a spell scroll and giving it to the Wizard, except time and money.
To teach directly? I would say no. All casting classes manipulate the weave differently (Wizards study the weave itself to find how to manipulate it, Warlocks draw on the power of their patron, Sorcerers use power native to their being, Clerics from their deity, etc...) so teaching directly is probably not an option as the means to access the power for a spell are different even if the effect is the same.
But I do agree that any spellcasting class could theoretically write a scroll and then the wizard could interpret it and learn it. by writing it down they are inscribing those means in a way that can be decoded and understood.
I say this first bullet is exactly how you get what you’re asking for--although not really what you want. Want a Druid to teach a wizard a spell? Sure, it takes about a level to do it and it’s one of the spells included in the level-up. The means by which the wizard actually learned the spells during level-up is totally open to flavor.
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Deck of Decks
What arcana check? Is this an optional rule in the DMG or something?
That just sounds like teaching directly with more steps. I get the rules haven't specifically said you can teach directly, but there's no logical reason why you couldn't. If you argue that every caster does spell casting differently then 2 things logically follow. First, You can't use a spell scroll to learn a spell unless it was written by a wizard, as the method of the spell casting for the scroll would be different from how you could do it as a wizard. Second, you shouldn't be able to recognize what spell any other class type is casting since that would require exact knowledge of how that particular class casts that spell. While it's possible you could study exactly how that class casts the spell, you'd effectively have learned how to cast it by that point. You could have wiggle room for k owing cleric spells since they get their spells from a diety. Sorcerers would straight up be out since presumably they all cast spells a different way from each other making it completely unrecognizable even amongst sorcerers.
I feel like there's a lot of implication in the mechanics and lore to say every class has to use the same mechanics to cast spells, they just learn the mechanics thru different means. The most compelling evidence is that every class needs the exact same components to cast the same spell.
In short, logically, you *should* be able to teach a wizard how to cast a spell you know. If a spell scroll is universal, and you can write a scroll, you should easily be able to simply guide someone else through writing it. I do realize there are no actual rules stating this, so you'd be technically correct by the rules to not allow this, but the rules also don't say disintegrate kills you when it turns you into a pile of fine dust, so by the same token, you would not be wrong to make death saving throws, get healed, and then play as a pile of fine dust the rest of the game.
This comes directly from the item description for a Spell Scroll:
When the above description refers to a "wizard spell", the common interpretation is that this spell appears on the Wizard Spell list. If the same spell appears on the Wizard Spell list and also another class's Spell list, then this process of a creature from one class writing it down and then a Wizard learning it should work.
I'll also point out that there is some evidence in the rule book that the 3 sources listed above are not the only sources by which a Wizard can learn a spell. That text is this:
The formal method given in the Your Spellbook sidebar describes the procedure for learning a spell by Copying a Spell into the Book. But it doesn't actually say that the source of such copying must be from a Spell Scroll or a Spellbook, and the above text seems to indicate that spells might be written in other places as well.
Fair enough. I hadn't seen that in spell scroll description. I find it very weird that this isn't addressed in the wizard class description, since it seems that's the usually way to find spells. Actually, that's just bad writing, can't sugar coat that one.
I will point out a couple things: the two places the Spellbook sidebar mentions finding spells are a scroll (so a scroll) and a book with a spell in it (so a spellbook). There is no reason to think that because a book is called a tome, happens to be dusty, and was found in an ancient library that it isn't a spellbook. There isn't any evidence in the base rules of spells being found elsewhere -- Like just written on napkins or whatever. I can't be sure of every piece of adventure loot.
What about multiclassing? If a wizard multiclass into druid than he can use both spell slots availeble to cast right? Shouldnt that imply that you can/are able to use or cope to know how to? In this example I still want to stick to only wizard spells list. Magic and winds of magic are the same, Spells are the sąme, so in a way all casting classes use same "resource" Just through or by other means.
Mechanically, the only time you have two distinct spell slots in 5e is when you're part Warlock and part another caster; Pact Magic slots are separate from regular slots. Otherwise, if you gain spell slots from multiple classes, the class levels are aggregated and then applied against one master table. You can then use the resulting spell slots for any spell you have gained through a class feature or another feature that allows the use of spells slots.
However, that's just a gameplay mechanism and so the lore/roleplay/worldbuilding implications you can draw from it are limited. Basically, though, spell slots represent the "internal reserve" of magic an individual has; how that reserve is then applied to produce magic effects and consequently what effects can be produces and what mental attribute strengthens them is dictated by your class. Each class essentially has their own technique, as previously mentioned, and a multiclass just means you've learned two different techniques, not that you can cross apply the techniques.
If you gain a spell from leveling Druid, you've learned one method of how to produce that effect, but even if you have Wizard levels as well and that's a spell that's on both class lists you can't cast the spell using Wizard methods because this level up reflects you expanding your knowledge of Druidic methods, which are separate from Wizard methods. They're like two different programming languages, you can't drop a bit of code from one into a program for the other.
Regardless of multiclassing, it's also worth remembering the following rules (emphasis mine):
“When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.”
And this rule from Spellcasting section in the Multiclassing chapter: