Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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Haha, sure mate!
Just for the record, I totally got your point of view and your humorous tone from your first reply :)
I didn't mean to be stubborn or confrontational. At the end of the day, D&D is a game meant to be enjoyed ❤️
Back to the rule in question- I'm DMing (1st time), and have a party with a Dragonborn Barbarian and a Gnome Monk. Since level 3, they've taken to throwing the monk into battle. After the first couple times, I decided I needed to come up with a ruleset for it. Here's what I'm trying:
Research:
Upper bound: Path of the Giant Barbarian, level 10 Feat Mighty Impel lets them throw a Medium or smaller creature 30 feet as a Bonus. It's a specialized feat for a mid-level character, but as a Bonus Action, implies that something similar is achievable for a normal creature at that level for a full Action.
Lower bound: Improvised Weapons rules. 20/60 range, 1d4+STR damage.
I don't want to take weights into account, as that will get bogged down too quickly, but size definitely needs to be a factor.
Decision (for now):
Full Action cost.
Creature gets a STR save to prevent. DC = 8 + thrower's STR mod, + proficiency bonus if already grappled.
Distance = 5 feet * STR mod +/- 10 per size difference.
Projected creature has a DEX save to grab target and/or not land prone and take 1d4+STR mod damage.
Examples:
STR 18(+4) Medium creature throwing Small creature-
Max distance = 5*4+10 = 30 feet
Small creature would need to make a DEX (DC 30) save to grab target / prevent landing prone and take 1d4+4 damage.
STR 8(-1) Medium creature throwing Small creature-
Max distance = 5*-1+10 = 5 feet
STR 30(+10) Gargantuan creature throwing a Medium creature-
Max distance = 5*10+30 = 80 feet
Medium creature could try to resist at a STR (DC = 8+10) save
Medium creature would need to make a DEX (DC 80) save to prevent landing prone and take 1d4+10 damage.
Special character abilities would supersede these if applicable (e.g. Monk Slow Fall to reduce damage)
Just a note: Mighty Impel's timing doesn't imply anything except that the designers didn't want this ability to take a full action. It's something special the subclass gets, that's all.
As the above poster is saying, a bonus action is not a smaller action. It does not imply others can do it with their action. The rules never imply anything. BA is just a separate pool of things you can do. Don’t try and compare the two.
Second, in your case, I’d be very tempted to just say they can’t do it. Your solution gives a 10th level power to everyone for free. And in this case, you are letting a barbarian be one subclass (I think, it’s unclear what the barb is here) and get a power from a second subclass, even if it’s not as reliable.
But, to try and be more helpful since it does seem like everyone is having fun and you want to let them do it, I’d probably homebrew a feat to make them invest something into being able to do it. And then take out alll the math and randomness as that will slow down play. Just let them take the feat and get the power as written.
This is pretty much just a DM adjudication situation. However, if allowed, I think that this is one of those times where at least a rough approximation of the weights of things really should be factored in.
In this situation we have a medium creature attempting to throw a small creature which may or may not be equipped with and/or carrying a whole bunch of "stuff".
For context:
A grappling hook can be thrown up to 50 feet. It weighs 4 pounds.
A pike can be thrown as an improvised weapon up to 60 feet. It weighs 18 pounds. This is a bit of an outlier -- the next heaviest melee weapon weighs 10 pounds.
When it comes to things that are much heavier, the rules typically do not mention any possibility that such a thing can be thrown at all. The shove rules allow you to "push" certain creatures up to 5 feet. A grappled creature can be "carried" or "dragged" with some difficulty.
The rules for carrying capacity talk about the possibilities to be able to "carry", "drag", "lift" or "push" a large amount of weight, based on your Strength score. Being able to throw such weight is not mentioned.
The 2014 books suggested that a small creature typically weighs somewhere around 40 pounds. However, depending on their strength score, they might also be equipped with and/or carrying up to 300 pounds of "stuff".
I don't see very many scenarios here where it is reasonable that a medium creature can execute this throw for more than 5 feet. As a quick and dirty rule, I might say that if the total roughly estimated weight of the creature plus everything that they are carrying is less than half of your Strength score * 5 then you can attempt to throw this creature 10 feet with a successful Strength (Athletics) check. Maybe if the Gnome is willing to be thrown with nothing but the clothes on his back and a weapon in hand, we can get a bit more distance with a successful check -- I imagine grabbing by the ankles, spinning in a circle and heaving him into the air -- totally up to the DM to determine what might be possible.
Good notes, thank you!
Situationally, I needed to adjudicate myself out of a bind. They initially attempted this in LMoP when fighting the dragon (who was fleeing), so I'd needed to make a ruling on the spot. I definitely leaned towards Rule of Cool, cause who wouldn't want to be thrown at a fleeing dragon?! It quickly became a "thing", so I decided to sit down and put some limits to it. Looks like I might need to nerf it a bit more based on feedback, though. Ideas to rein it in without completely killing it (or taking player weight into account) would be appreciated.
(Major reason for not wanting to take weight into account is that I've done the math on the only characters I have trying to do this, and the Gnome's weight and both of their total equipment is still easily within the Barbarian's carrying capacity. For other players, though, this could easily be a concern.)
Dwarf tossing.
Bar room games.
The tosser can not pass the predetermined line. He can toss the dwarf in any non magical manor they like. IE overhead throw, spinning hammer toss..... Kicking is not allowed.
The tossed one can not land on their feet. Rolling, sliding, skidding and bouncing does not count to distance.
This game also applies to Gnomes, Halfthings, Elves and Humans. As long as the tosser is one sized larger or proves they can get a qualifying distance.
Let the games begin!
Revisit on house rule above-
Feedback on Action vs BA was helpful.
Feedback on thrown weapons was enlightening, but possibly misleading. A weapon having a range of 20/60 doesn't mean that's the furthest it can be thrown. That's just the furthest it can be thrown and still be effective at doing damage. Still, the range structure led me to a revision.
Same setup/costs:
Full Action cost for thrower.
Creature gets a STR save to prevent. DC = 8 + thrower's STR mod, + proficiency bonus if already grappled.
Thrown creature has a DEX save to grab target and/or not land prone and take 1d4+STR mod damage.
Same Range calculation:
Max Distance = 5 feet * STR mod +/- 10 per size difference.
Change:
STR (DC distance) check by thrower. If fail, only thrown half distance. Thrown creature DEX save is at Disadvantage. Damage is Doubled.
Either:
If not Raging, STR DC check at Disadvantage
-or-
If Raging, STR DC check gets to add their Proficiency score.
I'm thinking there should be some sort of Action cost for the thrown character, but that gets complicated if they're unwilling. Possibly previous turn being a Ready Action if they're going to try to grab something mid-air without Disadvantage?
Playing that out, it would mean that the 30 foot throw would require a DC 30 STR check. Hard, but not impossible, to do at lower levels. Quite likely to fail. Also, I would struggle to find a time when you're targeting a specific minimum distance where landing short wouldn't be a big issue. That failure would also usually come at the cost of 2 players' turns. On a plus side, the thrown player taking damage would let the Barbarian maintain their rage.
I'm going to say, if everyone is having fun, including teh DM, just go with it....
If it's starting to break your encounters, dial it back.
If you want to try and base this off existing rules, I think step one of this alley-oop requires the first player to grapple the second. That takes one of their attacks, assuming they take the attack action. This doesn't qualify for the "free object interaction" thing. This starts with a grapple.
You're movement while grappling someone is cut in half. Getting on/off a mount eats up half your movement. Getting up from Prone takes half youre movement. If you wanna Alley-Ooop a creature, I'd say it takes half your movement on that turn. Picking someone up off the ground to yeet them through the air requires a Grapple and half your movement. If you want to throw them as an improvised weapon, that requires a second attack. At level 3, that means this takes 2 turns to accomplish.
Then looking at the rules for Long Jump, you need 10 feet of movement in the correct direction, and then you can jump your strength score in feet. Yeeting someone else is going to be half that distance, probably.
Thrower: Attack[Action] Unarmed Attack (Grapple your ammunition). lose half your movement doing so. THen move 10 feet in the direction of the throw. Then throw as a long jump, using half your strength score in feet. Then you have 5 feet before or after this whole thing to setup before or cleanup after. If anything seems really tricky, add a strength/athletic check, DC=8+(distance to throw/2). fail and throwee ends up thrown zero feet. Fail by 5 or more, you're prone
THrowee: voluntarily fail your grapple saving throw. Be grappled. Get thrown strength score/2 feet. take 1d6 falling damage for every ten feet thrown. (monks can negate this). If anything feels really tricky about the landing, Dexterity saving throw, dc=8+(distance thrown/2) . Fail, and take 1d6 bad-tumble dmg. Fail by 5 or more, also end up prone.