I have a small problem with the feat. To be as clear as possible, here are the issues I have with the wording I found.
Feat: In addition, choose one 1st-level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and CAN cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again using this feat.
If you’re a spellcaster, can you pick your own class when you gain the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, the feat doesn’t say you can’t. For example, if you’re a wizard and gain the Magic Initiate feat, you can choose wizard and thereby learn two more wizard cantrips and another 1st-level wizard spell.
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
So my question is, if a Warlock takes Magic Initiate (Warlock), can they cast this additional level 1 spell as their normal max spell slot level spell, or will it be treated as a lvl 1 still?
A spell's level always matches the level of the slot used to cast it. If you cast a 1st level Warlock spell using a 5th level slot, you just cast a 5th level spell.
If a Warlock takes the feat Magic Initiate (Warlock), it knows one more 1st level spell from the Warlock spell list. Still, the Warlock has only 1 spell slot (at 1st level) from the Warlock table, but it can use the feat Magic Initiate you cast only that one spell as 1st level spell, once per long rest.
The same spell from Magic Initiate can be cast with the normal Warlock spell slots and those scale with the level.
Then it might be a nice option for a Variant Human Warlock, having an additional spell slot on lvls 1-2 and later knowing one more spell. If this feat spell is one that does not scale, say Expeditious Retreat or Comprehend Languages, you just add to your spells per long rest for the whole campaign.
No it says "you can cast it it at its lowest level".Honestly that sounds like a house rule thing;
if your DM likes you then I can see a "you sling the simple spell forward and through the amplification of your patron the spell releases brilliantly, displaying its maximal potential!" ya know, something like that.
The feat has two effects for that 1st level spell:
1. You can cast it once per long rest at 1st level without a slot; and
2. You learn that spell.
The 1st effect is simple, and unrelated to the 2nd. It is just like the spells that various races get from their racial traits.
The 2nd effect is stranger, generally only has an effect if you take the feat to match your class, and works uniquely based on each class. Each spellcasting class defines what can be done with a spell that they "know". Cleric/Druid there is really no additional effect as you automatically know all spells, but must choose which to prepare during a rest. Wizards know the spell and it is now (effectively) in their spellbook; if they prepare it on that day's list then they can cast it using any slot(s). Bards/Sorcerers automatically have prepared every spell they know, so they can cast this new spell just like all their others. Warlocks are much like the other Charisma casters, and can cast any Warlock spell they know using their slots - just their slots exist only at a single level and recharge differently.
An Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight could choose a Wizard spell, and then (similar to a Bard/Sorcerer) they can cast any Wizard spell they know using their slots.
Jeremy Crawford has confirmed, that if a Warlock picks Magic Initiate (Warlock) she can cast the learned soell using her normal spell slots as any other Warlock spell she knows.
Learning a spell that you can cast without using a spell slot once per long rest as a level one spell, and learning the same spell in general. Cantrips are treated as normal cantrips as far as gaining power as the character levels up. However, you are required to use the ability score of the class you picked from (see the example below).
So lets say that you are a Wizard who took a Bard's Vicious Mockery and Faerie Fire. You would be able to use Faerie Fire once per long rest without using a spell slot, and ONLY as a first level spell, then as many times as you want using your Wizard spell slots, and treat Vicious Mockery as you would any other cantrip (gaining levels as your character gains levels). However, the saving throws for each would be with your Charisma modifier (because it's a Bard spell) and not your Intelligence. And any damage spells you might have taken that required an attack roll would add your Charisma modifier as well.
Note with a warlock, the free casting is still only as a first level spell, even if the Warlock has higher level spell slots.
Technically they don't become "prepared", you just "know" the spell at all times. This might be an important distinction in case something keys off the spells being "prepared" by a class.
And no, this is a spell granted by a feat so there is no way to exchange the spells unless your DM says you can. It also doesn't count towards any number of spell known/prepared limits that your class might have.
And just to add, if any feat or item or other requirement exists that requires someone to have "the ability to cast at least one spell" (such as the Spell Sniper feat), taking Magic Initiate satisfies these requirements, even if you can't otherwise cast spells (such as a Champion Fighter taking the Magic Initiate feat).
Technically they don't become "prepared", you just "know" the spell at all times. This might be an important distinction in case something keys off the spells being "prepared" by a class.
Your interpretation overall is flawed because one of the things that keys off of being "prepared" by a class is the ability to use spell slots to cast a spell for such classes. Magic Initiate spells do not count as prepared, since no text in the feat says so, meaning that you can not cast a magic initiate spell as a prepared caster with slots unless you also prepare it (which means it must be available for you to prepare). Again, even for spells known classes, the spell magic initiate gives is associated with a class (the one you choose), and if that doesn't match your spellcasting class, that spell wouldn't count as a spell you can use slots on (per the precise wording of the spellcasting feature of your class).
This is a personal ruling, but by in large I think the game becomes much more simple if you treat only spells granted by the spellcasting or pact magic class features as able to be cast by slots. All other spells from other sources should be only cast-able in the way that their source provides. I think this is the easiest way to deal with all of the edge case interactions. Each spell from a class feature is associated with a class and clearly says that you must use a certain ability score to cast that spell (and how to do so with slots, etc). The other sources of spells are much more varied in their precision of wording, so it just isn't worth wading through the muck. You get one casting of your 1st level magic initiate spell from the feat (with the exception of taking magic initiate into your own "spells known" class to gain a known spell).
You can't use spell slots to cast the Magic Initiate spells using spell slots from another class, only your own, unless the class allows for it normally. I misinterpreted the Sage Advice answer I had found way back. Also, I just discovered that the Sage Advice Compendium is a thing... how have I missed this?
Edit: Which is actually posted in the very first post of the thread... sometimes reading helps, even in a thread that was necro'd.
From the Compendium:
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare. In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
Yes. If you magic initiate into your own ("spells known") class, you can pick up an additional known spell of first level, thus saving a slot. Other than this exception, I would tend to keep class feature spellcasting and additional feature (race/feat) spellcasting separate. Many of those additional sources don't give a class for a spell, and the class features require a particular class.
Somewhat annoyingly, you can't even cast magic initiate spells as a ritual as a druid/cleric/wizard, because the spell needs to either be in your spellbook or prepared. I guess a bard could cast their magic initiate spell as long as it was a bard spell for them (I guess that means bard magic initiate into bard).
So, more succinctly, a first level spell chosen from a class other than your own that is learned through the Magic Initiate feat could be treated as a one-shot cantrip per long rest. The spell cannot be amplified into a higher slot because it does not use a slot in this situation. If the chosen spell IS from your class, treat it like any other spell from your class in any available slot you wish.
So, more succinctly, a first level spell chosen from a class other than your own that is learned through the Magic Initiate feat could be treated as a one-shot cantrip per long rest. The spell cannot be amplified into a higher slot because it does not use a slot in this situation. If the chosen spell IS from your class, treat it like any other spell from your class in any available slot you wish.
This is a confusing topic with no true consensus. Go ahead and play it that way, if you'd like, but it isn't quite right. You've lost some details in trying to make it succinct.
If you look at the multi-class table in the phb the terms are laid out. '"Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes, and a third of your fighter or rogue levels (rounded down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster feature "logicaly this would also apply to Psi Warrior, where you choose one class list which is basiclly an Eldrith Knight, with W/different features & and flavor". Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table." You get one 1st level slot (minimum) for 1 given spell in one chosen class; added to your class, this feat is a 'cherry on top' of the of your class list.
Thanks all. I found the clarification in the sage advice compendium, where they disallow the first level spell from the magic initiate feat to be cast by any spell slot, except for minor exceptions.
I disagree with the consensus. if you know a spell, and have a spell slot, you can cast that known spell. IDC where you learned it from. The whole thing seems silly.
This is doubly true for a multiclass caster. The multiclass rules clearly say their slots can be used for any spell they know.
I have a small problem with the feat. To be as clear as possible, here are the issues I have with the wording I found.
Feat: In addition, choose one 1st-level spell from that same list. You learn that spell and CAN cast it at its lowest level. Once you cast it, you must finish a long rest before you can cast it again using this feat.
Then from here: https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/68451/can-you-cast-a-magic-initiate-spell-using-spell-slots
Apparently sourced from Sage Advice Compendium:
If you’re a spellcaster, can you pick your own class when you gain the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, the feat doesn’t say you can’t. For example, if you’re a wizard and gain the Magic Initiate feat, you can choose wizard and thereby learn two more wizard cantrips and another 1st-level wizard spell.
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare.
So my question is, if a Warlock takes Magic Initiate (Warlock), can they cast this additional level 1 spell as their normal max spell slot level spell, or will it be treated as a lvl 1 still?
A spell's level always matches the level of the slot used to cast it. If you cast a 1st level Warlock spell using a 5th level slot, you just cast a 5th level spell.
If a Warlock takes the feat Magic Initiate (Warlock), it knows one more 1st level spell from the Warlock spell list. Still, the Warlock has only 1 spell slot (at 1st level) from the Warlock table, but it can use the feat Magic Initiate you cast only that one spell as 1st level spell, once per long rest.
The same spell from Magic Initiate can be cast with the normal Warlock spell slots and those scale with the level.
Then it might be a nice option for a Variant Human Warlock, having an additional spell slot on lvls 1-2 and later knowing one more spell. If this feat spell is one that does not scale, say Expeditious Retreat or Comprehend Languages, you just add to your spells per long rest for the whole campaign.
No it says "you can cast it it at its lowest level".Honestly that sounds like a house rule thing;
if your DM likes you then I can see a "you sling the simple spell forward and through the amplification of your patron the spell releases brilliantly, displaying its maximal potential!" ya know, something like that.
The feat has two effects for that 1st level spell:
1. You can cast it once per long rest at 1st level without a slot; and
2. You learn that spell.
The 1st effect is simple, and unrelated to the 2nd. It is just like the spells that various races get from their racial traits.
The 2nd effect is stranger, generally only has an effect if you take the feat to match your class, and works uniquely based on each class. Each spellcasting class defines what can be done with a spell that they "know". Cleric/Druid there is really no additional effect as you automatically know all spells, but must choose which to prepare during a rest. Wizards know the spell and it is now (effectively) in their spellbook; if they prepare it on that day's list then they can cast it using any slot(s). Bards/Sorcerers automatically have prepared every spell they know, so they can cast this new spell just like all their others. Warlocks are much like the other Charisma casters, and can cast any Warlock spell they know using their slots - just their slots exist only at a single level and recharge differently.
An Arcane Trickster or Eldritch Knight could choose a Wizard spell, and then (similar to a Bard/Sorcerer) they can cast any Wizard spell they know using their slots.
Jeremy Crawford has confirmed, that if a Warlock picks Magic Initiate (Warlock) she can cast the learned soell using her normal spell slots as any other Warlock spell she knows.
What about cross class spells?
A wizard takes Magic Initiate for a cleric first level spell, can he use his spell slots on the spell he know from Magic Initiate?
Or a Bard picks a Warlock spell etc..?
Another question is does the cantrips you get from Magic Initiate have its spell casting level increase?
most have increased effects at higher levels.
With the feat, the following happens:
Learning a spell that you can cast without using a spell slot once per long rest as a level one spell, and learning the same spell in general. Cantrips are treated as normal cantrips as far as gaining power as the character levels up. However, you are required to use the ability score of the class you picked from (see the example below).
So lets say that you are a Wizard who took a Bard's Vicious Mockery and Faerie Fire. You would be able to use Faerie Fire once per long rest without using a spell slot, and ONLY as a first level spell, then as many times as you want using your Wizard spell slots, and treat Vicious Mockery as you would any other cantrip (gaining levels as your character gains levels). However, the saving throws for each would be with your Charisma modifier (because it's a Bard spell) and not your Intelligence. And any damage spells you might have taken that required an attack roll would add your Charisma modifier as well.
Note with a warlock, the free casting is still only as a first level spell, even if the Warlock has higher level spell slots.
There was something that hit my notice.
When a any class takes Magic Initiate do the spells becomes permanently prepared?
Bards and sorcerers can change a single spell when they level up and the other can modify there prepare spells.
is there any way to change these spells? except by the mercy of the GM?
Technically they don't become "prepared", you just "know" the spell at all times. This might be an important distinction in case something keys off the spells being "prepared" by a class.
And no, this is a spell granted by a feat so there is no way to exchange the spells unless your DM says you can. It also doesn't count towards any number of spell known/prepared limits that your class might have.
And just to add, if any feat or item or other requirement exists that requires someone to have "the ability to cast at least one spell" (such as the Spell Sniper feat), taking Magic Initiate satisfies these requirements, even if you can't otherwise cast spells (such as a Champion Fighter taking the Magic Initiate feat).
Your interpretation overall is flawed because one of the things that keys off of being "prepared" by a class is the ability to use spell slots to cast a spell for such classes. Magic Initiate spells do not count as prepared, since no text in the feat says so, meaning that you can not cast a magic initiate spell as a prepared caster with slots unless you also prepare it (which means it must be available for you to prepare). Again, even for spells known classes, the spell magic initiate gives is associated with a class (the one you choose), and if that doesn't match your spellcasting class, that spell wouldn't count as a spell you can use slots on (per the precise wording of the spellcasting feature of your class).
This is a personal ruling, but by in large I think the game becomes much more simple if you treat only spells granted by the spellcasting or pact magic class features as able to be cast by slots. All other spells from other sources should be only cast-able in the way that their source provides. I think this is the easiest way to deal with all of the edge case interactions. Each spell from a class feature is associated with a class and clearly says that you must use a certain ability score to cast that spell (and how to do so with slots, etc). The other sources of spells are much more varied in their precision of wording, so it just isn't worth wading through the muck. You get one casting of your 1st level magic initiate spell from the feat (with the exception of taking magic initiate into your own "spells known" class to gain a known spell).
Ugh, you are correct. Thank you WolfOfTheBees.
My apologies To Tarzhay.
You can't use spell slots to cast the Magic Initiate spells using spell slots from another class, only your own, unless the class allows for it normally. I misinterpreted the Sage Advice answer I had found way back. Also, I just discovered that the Sage Advice Compendium is a thing... how have I missed this?
Edit: Which is actually posted in the very first post of the thread... sometimes reading helps, even in a thread that was necro'd.
From the Compendium:
If you have spell slots, can you use them to cast the 1st level spell you learn with the Magic Initiate feat? Yes, but only if the class you pick for the feat is one of your classes. For example, if you pick sorcerer and you are a sorcerer, the Spellcasting feature for that class tells you that you can use your spell slots to cast the sorcerer spells you know, so you can use your spell slots to cast the 1st-level sorcerer spell you learn from Magic Initiate. Similarly, if you are a wizard and pick that class for the feat, you learn a 1st-level wizard spell, which you could add to your spellbook and subsequently prepare. In short, you must follow your character’s normal spellcasting rules, which determine whether you can expend spell slots on the 1st-level spell you learn from Magic Initiate.
Yes. If you magic initiate into your own ("spells known") class, you can pick up an additional known spell of first level, thus saving a slot. Other than this exception, I would tend to keep class feature spellcasting and additional feature (race/feat) spellcasting separate. Many of those additional sources don't give a class for a spell, and the class features require a particular class.
Somewhat annoyingly, you can't even cast magic initiate spells as a ritual as a druid/cleric/wizard, because the spell needs to either be in your spellbook or prepared. I guess a bard could cast their magic initiate spell as long as it was a bard spell for them (I guess that means bard magic initiate into bard).
So, more succinctly, a first level spell chosen from a class other than your own that is learned through the Magic Initiate feat could be treated as a one-shot cantrip per long rest. The spell cannot be amplified into a higher slot because it does not use a slot in this situation. If the chosen spell IS from your class, treat it like any other spell from your class in any available slot you wish.
This is a confusing topic with no true consensus. Go ahead and play it that way, if you'd like, but it isn't quite right. You've lost some details in trying to make it succinct.
If you look at the multi-class table in the phb the terms are laid out. '"Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes, and a third of your fighter or rogue levels (rounded down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster feature "logicaly this would also apply to Psi Warrior, where you choose one class list which is basiclly an Eldrith Knight, with W/different features & and flavor". Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table." You get one 1st level slot (minimum) for 1 given spell in one chosen class; added to your class, this feat is a 'cherry on top' of the of your class list.
Read the PHB section on multiclassing and feats. It's a core rule.
Thanks all. I found the clarification in the sage advice compendium, where they disallow the first level spell from the magic initiate feat to be cast by any spell slot, except for minor exceptions.
I disagree with the consensus. if you know a spell, and have a spell slot, you can cast that known spell. IDC where you learned it from. The whole thing seems silly.
This is doubly true for a multiclass caster. The multiclass rules clearly say their slots can be used for any spell they know.
I got quotes!