Hi everyone! This is my first post on here, but I play a ghostwise halfling in my current game, and as a moon druid, crag cat is one of my all time favorite forms. There are a couple of things that my group and I have realized while playing: we gave my girlfriend's character a magic saddle so she could ride me into battle, and the saddle(being magical) changes to fit who/whatever is wearing it. Also, while staying in wildshape form can be difficult for extremely long periods of time, you can use wild shape twice per long OR short rest, meaning at lvl 2 when a druid could gain access to the crag cat form, they could stay as such for the next two hours before needing a half hour nap. My lvl 9 druid, stays in crag cat form for 4 hours, and then changes into another crag cat, essentially staying in the same form for 8 hours, and every 8 hours he takes a 30 minute cat nap. few of the local townsfolk have ever even seen my halfling form at this point. oh and the ghostwise halfling racials completely eliminate the issue of speech and communication. Lastly because the available beasts you can turn into dwindle at higher levels, my DM allowed me to go into the sta block of a few of my lower CR forms, and level them up based on their hit die, base stats, and giving them the +2 stat increase every 4 levels that every class gets. so my level 9 crag form has 90hp, and the multiattack feat and is completely broken now.
Welcome, Turiel! None of what I'm about to say is meant to curb the fun you're obviously having in your game, but... :D
Firstly, Short Rests are a minimum of 1 hour, though your point is still well taken. Taking advantage of abilities that return after Short Rests is just good gaming, and many classes benefit from such mechanics.
Your DM allowing you to level up Beasts is, IMO, an extremely terrible idea. Monsters have CRs for a reason. And Wild Shape is limited by both CR and the Beast category by design. The reasons that PCs level up is due to their personal experience at being who/what they are. The way your DM has allowed it to be structured is you're playing 2 PCs; 1 is your halfling and the other is your crag cat. Both seem to be leveling up simultaneously, and both are receiving the benefits. And giving it feats?
You yourself summed up the problem...it's completely broken.
I haven't thought about it too closely, but I think that wildshaping into a level-appropriate version of the new Beast of the Air or Beast of the Earth in the ranger section of the new UA would be.... fine I think? And cool and thematic, for a Druid that wants to be able to shift into one specific wolf for the entirety of their adventuring career instead of any and all beasts they've met.
Also, the Druid rules may not provide for leveling up a beast, but the DM's rules (in Chapter 9 of the DMG) certainly do allow for the DM to create new beasts by modifying current ones. If you enjoy turning into a CR 1 Crag Cat, but then want to be able to turn into a CR 2 version when you reach Druid 6, the DMG suggests that your Dungeon Master could accommodate this by designing a CR 2 Crag Cat ("Grizzled Crag Cat?") by giving it about 15 more hp and the ability to do about 6 more damage per round (maybe by giving it Multi-attack so that it can both Bite and Claw? or by increasing its physical stats a little bit?). Could keep that going with:
CR 3 "Elder Crag Cat" at Druid 9 (same as above, +15 more hp, +2 strength, maybe add a second claw into the multiattack for bite-claw-claw).
CR 4 "Dire Crag Cat" at Druid 12 (same as above, +15 more hp, +2 more strength, bump up to large, bump natural attacks up a damage die, +1 natural AC).
CR 5 "Crag Cat King" at Druid 15 (same as above, +15 more hp, +2 more strength, +2 dex, +1 proficiency bonus).
CR 6 "Legendary Crag Cat" at Druid 18 (same as above, +15 more hp, maybe one last stat bump to something).
At pretty much all of these levels the enhanced Crag Cat is still going to be at or below the other "optimal" choices to be found in the MM, so I don't think there's a huge balance concern.
This isn't just allowed, I'd argue it's a pretty good idea for DMs of a group that includes a moon druid. As you reach higher tiers of play, the selection of CR-appropriate beasts really bottoms out, especially if the Druid isn't interested in (or the setting doesn't allow) turning into dinosaurs, tropical, or aquatic creatures.
There's a fairly wide power gap between what you're suggesting and what the previous poster described. Your leveling up process has the crag at 90 HP in step with Druid 15, whereas Turiel's crag cat has that at Druid 9.
A 9th level druid has access to level 5 spells and Moon druids have Elemental Wildshape at 10th. I don't see where they are lacking in CR appropriate choices.
Now that I think about it, the Moon druid is already pretty insane by 10th level, crag cat isn't breaking it much more lol
They don't lack CR appropriate choices for Beasts until CR 5 and CR 6, but they do lack CR appropriate thematic choices. Not everyone wants to be a dino, so making CR-enhanced wolves, bears, etc. is an easy enough proposition for a DM with such a player.
Agreed, Chicken. Lions, tigers and bears (oh my!) I'm totally down for. I would just be wary of the few monsters that have obscene abilities above their power level.
I think I agree with Chicken_Champ this time around. If you want to adjust wildshape beasts, then do it using the CR system at appropriate levels, not by "leveling up" the beast each time that the druid gains a level.
Since there are so few beasts (especially at higher CRs) the only other option is assigning stat blocks to different types of beasts: use the stegosaurus stats as some sort of dire cave bear with re-flavoring of appropriate abilities, etc.
Crag Cats are Monstrosities. Druid Wildshape lets you turn only into Beasts. Unless there is a variant rule I don't know about you can't turn into them. I see lots of people wild shaping into monstrosities which isn't allowed unless people are ignoring the beast rule or I am missing something.
I think my backstory offers a solution. My Druid had a mentor. I can imagine the mentor, who was old and accomplished, had seen many beasts, and would have trained her mentee by transforming into many of them. So that's easy and logical, no?
That said, there are still problems with restrictions. First, the Crag Cat, among others, is very rare...if my 30 seconds of research is right. Few would have seen one. Even more so, things like the Guthash or Steeder, both of which show up in lists I have grabbed of available creatures.
Also, context is still key: The likelihood of my character and even her mentor ever having seen a giant octopus is nil...in fact, the one I am playing does not live near or in the ocean, so her list of available creatures if she reaches the ocean would be VERY limited and very difficult to add to without deep-sea diving. Even Giant Crab would be unlikely. To me that seems limiting. (Though one might argue if you have seen an octopus or crab, you can transform into the giant version of that.) But even other animals would be verboten; our game is in a jungle—would my Druid have ever seen a lion? A bear? A dire wolf? These are the Wildshape basics!
I think I will just do some rolling against the mentor's experience to see what sorts of things she could have taught her pupil, and leave it at that. So: make it random. My DM has just tired of the complications and said "turn into whatever you want," but I think some limits are necessary.
I'm late to the discussion but a crag cat is a monstrosity and druids can only turn into beasts using wildshape. Beast is a specific creature class. The DM would have to allow monstrosities for your druid to use this form.
Edit: I didn't realize there was a second page of comments and they eventually addressed the same issue. Sorry about the needless notification. I don't see a delete button.
Hi everyone! This is my first post on here, but I play a ghostwise halfling in my current game, and as a moon druid, crag cat is one of my all time favorite forms. There are a couple of things that my group and I have realized while playing: we gave my girlfriend's character a magic saddle so she could ride me into battle, and the saddle(being magical) changes to fit who/whatever is wearing it. Also, while staying in wildshape form can be difficult for extremely long periods of time, you can use wild shape twice per long OR short rest, meaning at lvl 2 when a druid could gain access to the crag cat form, they could stay as such for the next two hours before needing a half hour nap. My lvl 9 druid, stays in crag cat form for 4 hours, and then changes into another crag cat, essentially staying in the same form for 8 hours, and every 8 hours he takes a 30 minute cat nap. few of the local townsfolk have ever even seen my halfling form at this point. oh and the ghostwise halfling racials completely eliminate the issue of speech and communication. Lastly because the available beasts you can turn into dwindle at higher levels, my DM allowed me to go into the sta block of a few of my lower CR forms, and level them up based on their hit die, base stats, and giving them the +2 stat increase every 4 levels that every class gets. so my level 9 crag form has 90hp, and the multiattack feat and is completely broken now.
Welcome, Turiel! None of what I'm about to say is meant to curb the fun you're obviously having in your game, but... :D
Firstly, Short Rests are a minimum of 1 hour, though your point is still well taken. Taking advantage of abilities that return after Short Rests is just good gaming, and many classes benefit from such mechanics.
Your DM allowing you to level up Beasts is, IMO, an extremely terrible idea. Monsters have CRs for a reason. And Wild Shape is limited by both CR and the Beast category by design. The reasons that PCs level up is due to their personal experience at being who/what they are. The way your DM has allowed it to be structured is you're playing 2 PCs; 1 is your halfling and the other is your crag cat. Both seem to be leveling up simultaneously, and both are receiving the benefits. And giving it feats?
You yourself summed up the problem...it's completely broken.
I haven't thought about it too closely, but I think that wildshaping into a level-appropriate version of the new Beast of the Air or Beast of the Earth in the ranger section of the new UA would be.... fine I think? And cool and thematic, for a Druid that wants to be able to shift into one specific wolf for the entirety of their adventuring career instead of any and all beasts they've met.
Also, the Druid rules may not provide for leveling up a beast, but the DM's rules (in Chapter 9 of the DMG) certainly do allow for the DM to create new beasts by modifying current ones. If you enjoy turning into a CR 1 Crag Cat, but then want to be able to turn into a CR 2 version when you reach Druid 6, the DMG suggests that your Dungeon Master could accommodate this by designing a CR 2 Crag Cat ("Grizzled Crag Cat?") by giving it about 15 more hp and the ability to do about 6 more damage per round (maybe by giving it Multi-attack so that it can both Bite and Claw? or by increasing its physical stats a little bit?). Could keep that going with:
At pretty much all of these levels the enhanced Crag Cat is still going to be at or below the other "optimal" choices to be found in the MM, so I don't think there's a huge balance concern.
This isn't just allowed, I'd argue it's a pretty good idea for DMs of a group that includes a moon druid. As you reach higher tiers of play, the selection of CR-appropriate beasts really bottoms out, especially if the Druid isn't interested in (or the setting doesn't allow) turning into dinosaurs, tropical, or aquatic creatures.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
There's a fairly wide power gap between what you're suggesting and what the previous poster described. Your leveling up process has the crag at 90 HP in step with Druid 15, whereas Turiel's crag cat has that at Druid 9.
A 9th level druid has access to level 5 spells and Moon druids have Elemental Wildshape at 10th. I don't see where they are lacking in CR appropriate choices.
Now that I think about it, the Moon druid is already pretty insane by 10th level, crag cat isn't breaking it much more lol
They don't lack CR appropriate choices for Beasts until CR 5 and CR 6, but they do lack CR appropriate thematic choices. Not everyone wants to be a dino, so making CR-enhanced wolves, bears, etc. is an easy enough proposition for a DM with such a player.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Agreed, Chicken. Lions, tigers and bears (oh my!) I'm totally down for. I would just be wary of the few monsters that have obscene abilities above their power level.
I think I agree with Chicken_Champ this time around. If you want to adjust wildshape beasts, then do it using the CR system at appropriate levels, not by "leveling up" the beast each time that the druid gains a level.
Since there are so few beasts (especially at higher CRs) the only other option is assigning stat blocks to different types of beasts: use the stegosaurus stats as some sort of dire cave bear with re-flavoring of appropriate abilities, etc.
Crag Cats are Monstrosities. Druid Wildshape lets you turn only into Beasts. Unless there is a variant rule I don't know about you can't turn into them. I see lots of people wild shaping into monstrosities which isn't allowed unless people are ignoring the beast rule or I am missing something.
Well, when you dig up old threads, you run the risk of contributing to an outdated conversation.
Crag Cats were changed from beasts to monstrosities with Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden in September of 2020. This thread is a year old.
Edit: Link to a specific thread on this topic.
Years later, entering this conversation.
I think my backstory offers a solution. My Druid had a mentor. I can imagine the mentor, who was old and accomplished, had seen many beasts, and would have trained her mentee by transforming into many of them. So that's easy and logical, no?
That said, there are still problems with restrictions. First, the Crag Cat, among others, is very rare...if my 30 seconds of research is right. Few would have seen one. Even more so, things like the Guthash or Steeder, both of which show up in lists I have grabbed of available creatures.
Also, context is still key: The likelihood of my character and even her mentor ever having seen a giant octopus is nil...in fact, the one I am playing does not live near or in the ocean, so her list of available creatures if she reaches the ocean would be VERY limited and very difficult to add to without deep-sea diving. Even Giant Crab would be unlikely. To me that seems limiting. (Though one might argue if you have seen an octopus or crab, you can transform into the giant version of that.) But even other animals would be verboten; our game is in a jungle—would my Druid have ever seen a lion? A bear? A dire wolf? These are the Wildshape basics!
I think I will just do some rolling against the mentor's experience to see what sorts of things she could have taught her pupil, and leave it at that. So: make it random. My DM has just tired of the complications and said "turn into whatever you want," but I think some limits are necessary.
I'm late to the discussion but a crag cat is a monstrosity and druids can only turn into beasts using wildshape. Beast is a specific creature class. The DM would have to allow monstrosities for your druid to use this form.
Edit: I didn't realize there was a second page of comments and they eventually addressed the same issue. Sorry about the needless notification. I don't see a delete button.