Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer Creatures
Frozen Sick
D&D Beyond Basic Rules
Basic Rules (2014)
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Monstrous Compendium Vol. 1: Spelljammer CreaturesFrozen SickD&D Beyond Basic RulesBasic Rules (2014)Sign in to view your library & saved favorites.
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It’s putting a quill to paper- that is the extent to which the tools are being used, which does not seem to obtain to making an Arcana roll to grasp the workings of a spell well enough to prepare it. You’re stretching the bare letter of RAW in a way that seems incongruous with the use of tool proficiency. Basically, if you’re only using the tools the exact same way you would use a mundane item, it doesn’t seem the body of knowledge represented by your proficiency applies.
There is zero flavor text for what the arcana check is for on copying a scroll. It is not about grasping the spell because the rules never say so. It could equally well be that it's a matter of writing out the recipe fast enough before the scroll consumes itself, so that the writing is itself a key component of the activity. There is literally zero flavor here to shape how we understand what is going on.
All we have is the mechanical text - you're making an arcana test to copy a spell into your spellbook. That explicitly includes the act of writing, because to copy is to write it down.
A tool only requires it be used during the skill check for its proficiency to matter. Writing is the core activity of Calligraphy Tools, and the skill check here involves writing, so clearly the tool is appropriate for the task performed during the skill check. There's no stretching of what the tool is appropriate for.
I'm not "stretching" the RAW at all -- the RAW uses very general words here, so they naturally encompass a wide range of activities. There's no unusual use of the tool here - it's being used for exactly what it's intended to be used for: writing. There's no stretch of the spell scroll rules -- they're explicitly about copying; it uses the word 'copied' three times, and uses the word 'copier' to refer to the wizard, which designates their primary function in this activity is as a writer. This act of writing is the center of the entire rule. There isn't a single mention of understanding, deciphering, grasping, or anything like that in the spell scroll copying rules. I already quoted the complete text on the copying a spell from a scroll rule, it is starkly limited to the physical act of copying as the only thing it is concerned with.
If anything, you're the one distorting RAW to impose a preconceived notion of what you think it should mean, rather than reading the text as we have it. And you're doing so in a way the rules nowhere support. (Just being on your spell list and of a level you can cast means you can grasp it well enough to prepare it in 5e -- there is no check to learn a spell, and hasn't been since 3.x edition, where you explicitly had to make a spellcraft check to learn a spell from any source before you could copy it into your spellbook. That kind of language is nowhere to be found in 5e). Stop reading into the text things which are not there.
I'm just saying that the rules don't mention any tools, just time and GP. Maybe you need Ink, an Ink Pen, and Paper (*)? I can't say, because it's not written in the books.
In fact, they removed ink from the following rule in 5e:
EDIT: (*) surely not paper, because you have your own spellbook.
EDIT#2: for clarity.
So you really do mean to argue that Calligrapher's Supplies can't be used to write something? I'm sorry, who's the one torturing RAW here?
I don't need to know what's in a set of Calligrapher's Supplies to know it's used for writing, it's literally right in the name. And knowing that you can use them to scribe a scroll means that, whatever is in it, it is useful for writing down spells, even magically active spells.
But they didn't remove inks from the rule. They're right there in your quote: "The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it." So the spell is recorded with inks. (And even the 2024 Calligrapher's Supplies says it can be used to craft ink - clearly ink has not been done away with).
Calligrapher's Supplies are used to write things. Spells are written into spellbooks. Clearly, you can use the one to do the other. I don't need the rules to hold my hand and make the obvious conclusion - it is patently obvious from what the rules already says the one is and the other requires that the two things work together as a matter of simple logic. And the consequence of using the one to write the other is plainly spelled out in the rules in general terms that are simple to apply.
I'd also allow you to use Carpenter's Tools to put trim around a door or build the frame of a house, even though the rules never say so, because that's what carpenter's tools do. Or use potter's tools to make any sort of pottery, not just a jug or lamp. Any legitimate use of a tool gets to use that tool. And if the tool is used, the tool's proficiency applies to any related check. That's literally the only condition in the various tool rules - was the tool used?
(A Spellbook is also not a set thing. You will have more than one. And a 'spellbook' can even be a collection of loose pages - iirc the rules explicitly say so.)
Edit: Was that the 2014 text you quoted? Here's the 2024 text: "When you find a level 1+ Wizard spell, you can copy it into your spellbook if it's of a level you can prepare and if you have time to copy it. For each level of the spell, the transcription takes 2 hours and costs 50 GP. Afterward you can prepare the spell like the other spells in your spellbook."
Transcription is literally writing. If anything, 2024 moved the entire cost to the writing, as it's the transcription itself which costs 50g/spell level. And since you already have whatever you're writing into, that 50g has to be ink, there's nothing else it could be.
The point is that you, the player, don't get to decide which proficiencies, expertises and advantages are applied to an ability check.
If you are holding them, then you can "use" the Calligraphy Tools to perform the utilise activity in its description. That action will default to the ability mod listed for the equipment, and you may add PB to the roll if you have proficiency with the tool.
Then also, if you have any other character feature text or owned magic object description which says "you may use a Calligraphy Set to make an Ability(Skill) check to achieve X", then you will by defaupt add PB for proficiency in either skill or tool, PBx2 for expertise in the skill, and advantage for both proficiencies.
After that all bets are off. You may say "I would like to use my calligraphy set to scribe this spell scroll into my spellbook" and then the DM can reply as they see fit. Knowing you have proficiency in both Arcana and Calligraphy Sets they may rule that there is no efffect (since no skill check is needed to copy spells normally, only to copy them off of a scroll) or they might say that you may gain Advantage but only if you spend an extra hour to copy it - or whatever they come up with.
You the player cannot just declare "I will be using my Brewer's Supplies to assist in this grappling escape Dexterity(Acrobatics) skill check, so I will roll with advantage". You can always ask, and it is a great habit to remember and try to involve your tool proficiencies in the game, but it is specifically the domain of the DM to dictate which ability, proficiency, advantage/disadvantage, etc. applies to each ability check roll.
First of all, I'm not speaking as a player here, I'm speaking as someone who primarily DMs. Your phrasing is offensive.
(And yes, this is exactly how I think it works RAW, and have no problem allowing it.)
Second, you have to use a tool for a use the tool would normally be used for. Writing is a normal use for Calligraphy Supplies. Escaping a grapple is not a normal nor even plausible use of Brewer's Supplies, and proficiency only applies to normal use.
Third, as long as you "use" the tool (properly, on a pertinent activity), you apply its proficiency bonus to any resulting check. The tool says only it needs to be used. (A DM can always house rule otherwise, but that's a house rule). If a character is ever writing something on paper or similar media, and a skill check comes up, Calligraphy Supplies absolutely apply as written. The example tasks you can do are not the limit of what the tool is used for. (2014 gave more example tasks, and none of those things are bad examples of uses you could put a tool to in 2024, and those weren't exhaustive lists either).
And fourth, the player should absolutely have a reasonable expectation of when they can use a tool they're proficient in based on what the tool is and the kinds of activities it is typically used for. The player absolutely should have an idea of what proficiencies, expertises, and tool proficiencies apply to any activity they are engaging in, and should make a point of when they're using a tool they have. Their characters are trained in these things, and part of training is learning what you can do. All reasonable inferences should be allowed. The DM is not a dictator, they are a collaborative participant in the game.
The DM needs to make calls in unusual situations (because they speak for the world the players interact with), but writing something with Calligraphy Supplies is not an unusual situation. It's literally what Calligraphy Supplies are intended for. And using it to scribe a spell from a scroll into their spellbook is a rather similar activity to one explicitly listed as something Calligraphy Supplies allows you to do: scribe a scroll. Any claim scribing a spell into their spellbook is outside the normal use of Calligraphy Supplies is absurd.
Brewer's Supplies to escape a grapple seems exceptionally unlikely. That's not a reasonable inference. And using this as your argument, combined with your adversarial positioning of DMs and players, strikes me as bad faith. It is not at all comparable.
Yes, that quote is from 5e, not 5.5e.
And regarding "that 50g has to be ink", as you said: "Stop reading into the text things which are not there."
It's still writing, because that's what transcription means. So Calligraphy Supplies certainly apply, because they are supplies you use to write. I don't need to know what the gold is spent on for my argument. Similarly, the scroll rules say "copied" 3x and "copier" for the wizard, so definitely writing. Both the scroll rules and the spellbook rules are in perfect agreement that the activity involved is writing, pure RAW.
(And I would maintain ink is the only reasonable inference here, because we know it is writing and the material supplies are for doing the writing. This is quite different than deciding the arcana check means deciphering when the text only says copying, and nowhere speaks of anything like deciphering - one of these is deducing something solely based on the text, the other is adding something nowhere present in the text. But this is a sideshow, we don't need to know what the 50g/level of materials are to know we are writing).