[Order of Scribes] Does the Wizardly Quill really NOT remove the gold cost for copying spells? (RAW vs RAI vs common sense)

Quote from Dwayden >>

I had an idea that I think is somewhat clever.

What if, before leaving town, a wizard procures from a local magical scrivener establishment a portable Acquisitioner of Transcription Materials or ATM. This magical device is a small box or pouch that allows one to put gold or other valuables in increments of 50gp inside. The valuables are then transported to the shop/establishment into a corresponding receptacle. In exchange, the folks at the shop transport enough "stuff" to scribe one level of spell into a spellbook. If you need more levels you do it again. The "ATM" will only allow gold and valuables that the shop will accept to be transported to them and this is one way (in other words gold and valuables cannot go back). And, the specific "stuff" is only allowed to transport from the shop back to that "ATM".

This would allow a wizard who finds a Scroll of Magic Missile and has 50gp to get the "stuff" needed to scribe the spell from the scroll into their spellbook without having to trot back into town.

Does this work within RAW? Obviously I think it does. But, what do y'all think?

There's also galder's speedy courier

"There's also galder's speedy courier"

Oooo ... neat spell. i don't have that book on DnD Beyond, but I googled it.

Quote from Dwayden >>

I had an idea that I think is somewhat clever.

What if, before leaving town, a wizard procures from a local magical scrivener establishment a portable Acquisitioner of Transcription Materials or ATM. This magical device is a small box or pouch that allows one to put gold or other valuables in increments of 50gp inside. The valuables are then transported to the shop/establishment into a corresponding receptacle. In exchange, the folks at the shop transport enough "stuff" to scribe one level of spell into a spellbook. If you need more levels you do it again. The "ATM" will only allow gold and valuables that the shop will accept to be transported to them and this is one way (in other words gold and valuables cannot go back). And, the specific "stuff" is only allowed to transport from the shop back to that "ATM".

This would allow a wizard who finds a Scroll of Magic Missile and has 50gp to get the "stuff" needed to scribe the spell from the scroll into their spellbook without having to trot back into town.

Does this work within RAW? Obviously I think it does. But, what do y'all think?

I think that with your latest post, you’ve turned the serious discussion in this thread into something absurd.  The simple solution (mentioned by me and several others) is to buy a reasonable amount of spell copying materials BEFORE going on the adventure, and carry it in your backpack. I don’t understand why you’re so opposed to proper adventure preparation.
Your argument this whole thread is similar to being an archer PC, who brings only four arrows on an adventure, then exhausts all the arrows. Later in the adventure, finds 1gp and complains that he can’t just turn the 1gp into 20 arrows in the dungeon, rather than having to go back to the town store to buy more arrows. 

Why wouldn't I buy the stuff before hand? Simple, because I don't have the money YET! One of the reasons to go on the adventure is to get gold to do the stuff you want to do.

I fail to understand why you think this is absurd. I have already told you that I believe that one of the intentions of the subclass of Order of Scribes is for them to be able collect new spells in the field. Technically I do not have to come up with a flavorful way of how this works because the rules say nothing about having to go to a shop. I just have to exhaust or expend gold. At least that is how I interpret said rules.

This idea that you find absurd (which is HILARIOUS being that we are talking about an imaginary world with magic and dragons and stuff) just makes it more fun. Fun is good. I like fun. Do you not like fun? It really seems like your whole goal in responding to my posts is to be a killjoy.

If you have any constructive criticism I am all ears, but just calling my idea absurd is not helpful to a meaningful discussion.

Quote from Dwayden >>

Why wouldn't I buy the stuff before hand? Simple, because I don't have the money YET!

 If the DM wants you to be doing that, he can put appropriate materials in the treasure.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Quote from Dwayden >>

Why wouldn't I buy the stuff before hand? Simple, because I don't have the money YET!

 If the DM wants you to be doing that, he can put appropriate materials in the treasure.

 Ah, that is a very valid point and option. I hadn't really thought of that being that the "stuff" you need is somewhat undefined. My brain got stuck the physical idea of looting gold because the words say "the transcription ... costs 50gp". I rather like that simple idea. THANKS! ... but come on no one likes my ATM idea .. it's campy I know, but it's fun ... no? Guess not .. oh well :)

Quote from Dwayden >>

Why wouldn't I buy the stuff before hand? Simple, because I don't have the money YET! One of the reasons to go on the adventure is to get gold to do the stuff you want to do.

I fail to understand why you think this is absurd. I have already told you that I believe that one of the intentions of the subclass of Order of Scribes is for them to be able collect new spells in the field. Technically I do not have to come up with a flavorful way of how this works because the rules say nothing about having to go to a shop. I just have to exhaust or expend gold. At least that is how I interpret said rules.

This idea that you find absurd (which is HILARIOUS being that we are talking about an imaginary world with magic and dragons and stuff) just makes it more fun. Fun is good. I like fun. Do you not like fun? It really seems like your whole goal in responding to my posts is to be a killjoy.

If you have any constructive criticism I am all hears, but just calling my idea absurd is not helpful to a meaningful discussion.

You have been given all sorts of constructive criticism here already, by me and others!  Sorry, but a first-level character just cant do everything and/or buy everything that they might want to on their first adventure. Everyone on this board has advised you that you must buy or possess the transcription materials in advance. You can’t just transmute some gold pieces on the fly in a dungeon. 
I also note that you totally ignored my analogy of an PC, an archer, who used up all their arrows in a dungeon and wants more arrows. Using your logic, that PC can take 1gp out of his pocket and turn it into 20 arrows. Afterall, the PHB says 2O arrows cost 1gp…but the PHB doesn’t say you need to go to a weapons store to get the arrows, right?  See how ridiculous that sounds?  This is exactly what you’re trying to do as respects transcription supplies. 
If was your DM, I’d start mixing in some cursed scrolls into the treasure amongst the good scrolls.  The curse would be “eye rot” blinding you until you take three days full rest, during which time you could not see to read or scribe spells. Another good curse would be shaky hands; not something so debilitating that you couldn’t cast Somatic spells, but way too shaky to write/scribe anything for three days. Then maybe you’d learn to go back to town, and do this scroll copying in your wizard’s library where you ought to be doing it all along. 

Quote from EdO06057 >>

Quote from Dwayden >>

Why wouldn't I buy the stuff before hand? Simple, because I don't have the money YET! One of the reasons to go on the adventure is to get gold to do the stuff you want to do.

I fail to understand why you think this is absurd. I have already told you that I believe that one of the intentions of the subclass of Order of Scribes is for them to be able collect new spells in the field. Technically I do not have to come up with a flavorful way of how this works because the rules say nothing about having to go to a shop. I just have to exhaust or expend gold. At least that is how I interpret said rules.

This idea that you find absurd (which is HILARIOUS being that we are talking about an imaginary world with magic and dragons and stuff) just makes it more fun. Fun is good. I like fun. Do you not like fun? It really seems like your whole goal in responding to my posts is to be a killjoy.

If you have any constructive criticism I am all hears, but just calling my idea absurd is not helpful to a meaningful discussion.

You have been given all sorts of constructive criticism here already, by me and others!  Sorry, but a first-level character just cant do everything and/or buy everything that they might want to on their first adventure. Everyone on this board has advised you that you must buy or possess the transcription materials in advance. You can’t just transmute some gold pieces on the fly in a dungeon. 
I also note that you totally ignored my analogy of an PC, an archer, who used up all their arrows in a dungeon and wants more arrows. Using your logic, that PC can take 1gp out of his pocket and turn it into 20 arrows. Afterall, the PHB says 2O arrows cost 1gp…but the PHB doesn’t say you need to go to a weapons store to get the arrows, right?  See how ridiculous that sounds?  This is exactly what you’re trying to do as respects transcription supplies. 
If was your DM, I’d start mixing in some cursed scrolls into the treasure amongst the good scrolls.  The curse would be “eye rot” blinding you until you take three days full rest, during which time you could not see to read or scribe spells. Another good curse would be shaky hands; not something so debilitating that you couldn’t cast Somatic spells, but way too shaky to write/scribe anything for three days. Then maybe you’d learn to go back to town, and do this scroll copying in your wizard’s library where you ought to be doing it all along. 

 Dude ... you're like ... a big ole meanie :P~

Tell ya what ... I, Dwayden, do hereby declare that I "just give up already!"... you are right and I am wrong. In fact, I, Dwayden, do hereby declare that  EdO06057 is the mostest correctest DnDer that ever DnDed. You win the DnD internet. Congratulations, here is your prize:

Cloak of Billowing

Do you feel better now that you have "won" ? 

Here’s another good one. The DM doesn’t even need cursed scrolls.  Imagine this: An OoS Wizard finds a spell scroll in a dungeon and then decides to copy it into his spellbook “in the field” (i.e. the dungeon).  The DM could have a big drop of water drip off the damp dungeon ceiling….SPLAT right on the wizard’s spellbook while the spell is being transcribed. Ooops it’s ruined now. You’ll have to start all over again and spend another 50 gp.  
DM then advises the player (above table), are you sure you want to transcribe spells away from your nice dry library that you have in town?

Wow ... I must have really hit some hidden nerve ... I am starting to get the feeling you might not be well. I am truly sorry for any malfeasance done upon you. Maybe you should seek professional help?

Quote from Dwayden >>

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Quote from Dwayden >>

Why wouldn't I buy the stuff before hand? Simple, because I don't have the money YET!

 If the DM wants you to be doing that, he can put appropriate materials in the treasure.

 Ah, that is a very valid point and option. I hadn't really thought of that being that the "stuff" you need is somewhat undefined. My brain got stuck the physical idea of looting gold because the words say "the transcription ... costs 50gp". I rather like that simple idea. THANKS! ... but come on no one likes my ATM idea .. it's campy I know, but it's fun ... no? Guess not .. oh well :)

Eh wizards don't really have much to spend their starting gold on so enough materials for a level 1 spell seems in their reach. And yeah in the places where you are likely to get a spell to scribe it frequently makes sense to have the materials to scribe a spell, you are in the evil wizards lair. They need to scribe spells as well. And as for the ATM idea sure in the right campaign it can work. IMO magic is their physics so to speak so as long as its consistent in how it works I think it can fit in a campaign. 

Quote from Dwayden >>

but come on no one likes my ATM idea .. it's campy I know, but it's fun ... no? Guess not .. oh well :)

I have no particular issue with a portable shop item, but even the basic version is probably an Uncommon item, so probably outside of a starting budget even if magic shops are a thing.

Quote from Pantagruel666 >>

Quote from Dwayden >>

but come on no one likes my ATM idea .. it's campy I know, but it's fun ... no? Guess not .. oh well :)

I have no particular issue with a portable shop item, but even the basic version is probably an Uncommon item, so probably outside of a starting budget even if magic shops are a thing.

And that's before you get to the monthly subscription fee

"And that's before you get to the monthly subscription fee" ... HA! That's great. I literally LOLed when I read that!!

I want to thank y'all for your engagement. It's been (mostly) fun. Just incase anyone is curious I will try to explain in detail why I think you don't need to buy stuff or go to a shop or whatever to copy a spell. First lets look at the 2014 rules on this:

"For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it."

I highlighted that word "represents" because I think it is actually very important and the game designers very intentionally put that there. The gold represents the stuff ... meaning the gold is in lieu of .. a proxy for .. a stand in for the stuff. You're not actually buying anything with the gold. You're just using the gold.

Next, we'll look at the 2024 rules:

"For each level of the spell, the transcription takes 2 hours and costs 50 GP."

That's it. The end. They completely removed any mention of any "stuff" you need. You just need gold. I think they removed the mention of "material components" and "fine inks" because it was confusing people.

This actually makes it clear that the Wizardly Quill does not and can not reduce the cost in anyway. Because it doesn't matter if it produced say 80 billion gp worth of ink a second, you are not using "stuff" to do the copying. At least not any stuff the game designers wanted to specify, meaning that it is up to us the players of the game (DM mostly).

Contrast that to arrows. Arrows are defined as being used by a bow and are not only given a cost but an item on a table. Here it is -->  arrows. There is no item on any table for "fine inks" or "spell copying materials" ... at least not that I can find.

So, this is my thinking on the matter. But, again, I totally admit that I am not the expert on interpreting the rules and thus could be wrong.

Quote from Dwayden >>

1. I am looking for ideas, suggestions, inspirations or what have you on how I personally could flavor a Scribe wizard scribing a spell in minutes using the gold needed. Ones that are more interesting than the quill "eating" the gold.

1) A spellbook whose writing can only be accurately scribed under the light of a special candle with rare wax and wicks, making the letters move and animate.
2) A spellbook whose contents can only be read and scribed correctly while under the influence of a specific narcotic incense, the images and writing appearing as a shimmering hallucination.
3) The spellbook itself consumed the gold and gems, becoming more lavish and ornate as it does so, for an Wizard from a long line of rich and noble wizards.

I haven’t read everything already posted.  Here’s how I read the initial scenario and interaction.

The phrase: “rare inks and other materials” has two categories - A) rare inks; and B) other materials.

The Wizardly Quill replaces the rare inks, but not the other materials.

So without doing a deep dive into the numbers, I would work with the player to determine what the value of the inks are.

I would never allow it to be “free” with the Wizardly Quill because the quill only provides inks but not other materials.

All this being the case, I absolutely would provide a discount.  Without getting into RAW, I think this falls into House Rule territory anyway because Tasha’s is 2014 and we are in 2024.

Purely because I find this topic to be a tedious exercise in spreadsheets, I would just House Rule a 50% discount on spell scribing costs.  😁

Ophidimancer ... those are great! Thanks for replying! All 3 are fantastic, but in particular. I like the 1st one because it's almost like a fantasy medieval computer. And, the 3rd one is cool because I have always thought a low level wizard would have a plain leather spellbook because they are just starting their career, but as they level up the book should get more ornate. That idea just makes that happen naturally.

Quote from packman767 >>

I haven’t read everything already posted.  Here’s how I read the initial scenario and interaction.

The phrase: “rare inks and other materials” has two categories - A) rare inks; and B) other materials.

The Wizardly Quill replaces the rare inks, but not the other materials.

So without doing a deep dive into the numbers, I would work with the player to determine what the value of the inks are.

I would never allow it to be “free” with the Wizardly Quill because the quill only provides inks but not other materials.

All this being the case, I absolutely would provide a discount.  Without getting into RAW, I think this falls into House Rule territory anyway because Tasha’s is 2014 and we are in 2024.

Purely because I find this topic to be a tedious exercise in spreadsheets, I would just House Rule a 50% discount on spell scribing costs.  😁

 Yeah, I think there are a lot of people that think the same as you do. I hear rumor that originally they were going to have the Wizardly Quill make copying a spell into your book take 2 minutes and 25gp per level. But, they removed any mention of cost when they published Tasha's. This makes sense because all the specializations got a 50% discount on cost for spells within their school and the Scribe specializes in scribing .. so yeah! As to why they removed the cost discount I am not sure. But, my working theory is that they already new they were going to change the whole "Savant" thing in the 2024 rules. The 4 Wizard subclasses in the 2024 PHB change their Savant feature such that it grants them "free" spells of their school through out the leveling process. So, I believe having any monetary discount on copying spells is going to be a thing of the past.

I actually like the change because the old style Savant feature was weird. It posed the player with a conundrum. Do they take that super awesome level 3 spell as soon as they hit level 5 for free? Or do they take another spell for free because copying that spell would cost twice as much as the one in their school? The better option is to just take the spells you want as soon as you can. This meant that the old Savant feature was almost never really used in practice.

Quote from Dwayden >>

I want to thank y'all for your engagement. It's been (mostly) fun. Just incase anyone is curious I will try to explain in detail why I think you don't need to buy stuff or go to a shop or whatever to copy a spell. First lets look at the 2014 rules on this:

"For each level of the spell, the process takes 2 hours and costs 50 gp. The cost represents material components you expend as you experiment with the spell to master it, as well as the fine inks you need to record it."

I highlighted that word "represents" because I think it is actually very important and the game designers very intentionally put that there. The gold represents the stuff ... meaning the gold is in lieu of .. a proxy for .. a stand in for the stuff. You're not actually buying anything with the gold. You're just using the gold.

Next, we'll look at the 2024 rules:

"For each level of the spell, the transcription takes 2 hours and costs 50 GP."

That's it. The end. They completely removed any mention of any "stuff" you need. You just need gold. I think they removed the mention of "material components" and "fine inks" because it was confusing people.

This actually makes it clear that the Wizardly Quill does not and can not reduce the cost in anyway. Because it doesn't matter if it produced say 80 billion gp worth of ink a second, you are not using "stuff" to do the copying. At least not any stuff the game designers wanted to specify, meaning that it is up to us the players of the game (DM mostly).

Contrast that to arrows. Arrows are defined as being used by a bow and are not only given a cost but an item on a table. Here it is -->  arrows. There is no item on any table for "fine inks" or "spell copying materials" ... at least not that I can find.

So, this is my thinking on the matter. But, again, I totally admit that I am not the expert on interpreting the rules and thus could be wrong.

 

 This is so off base.  Nobody except you thinks that the actual gold pieces is a material component for the process.  This whole wretched time, despite your desperate attempts, YOU HAVE NOT CONVINCED ANYBODY.  The 50 gp must be used to purchase stuff.  PERIOD, THE END.