That's not what I meant. I meant, when they go down, are they dead?
Well, they're generally banished rather than dead, being summoned entities, but yes, they just get popped.
ItsScottish_ was asking as a DM what happens. RAW is that it is their choice whether it is dead or incapacitated. I am suggesting that they make the choice in a similar fashion as other companions.
I personally would not effectively break a magic item that is not explicitly expendable. It's not how I personally play, so I would have had the Guardian go down to saves. Animal companions are the best comparable scenario I could think of to guide consistent ruling. With Animal Companions, Familiars, and Paladin Mounts, even if "dead", they can be restored with a minor expense (a spell slot). A similar option could be used for the Shield Guardion, from any healing (Cure Spells if the Shield Guardian is not dead yet) to Raise Dead, Revivify, Resurrection, or True Resurrection. The resurrection path should work without any house ruling/retconning.
In any case, put me down in the I would run it differently column.
Still, I am just surprised that, even with its Maximum Hit Points reduced to 80, the Shield Guardian went down when it heals 10 HP a turn without any outside healing. It has a 17 AC, which isn't awful. It's been a while since I opened up the book, but what took it down? Immediate encounters should be well below the strength of the guardian and it should start every battle at full health.
I personally would not effectively break a magic item that is not explicitly expendable.
The mechanical benefits of a shield guardian are well in excess of the normal power level of a Rare item, so presumably the balancing factor for it being Rare (rather than, err, Legendary) is presumably the temporary nature of the item.
I personally would not effectively break a magic item that is not explicitly expendable.
The mechanical benefits of a shield guardian are well in excess of the normal power level of a Rare item, so presumably the balancing factor for it being Rare (rather than, err, Legendary) is presumably the temporary nature of the item.
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token. When you kill the guardian dead, you are taking a resource away from the party. And with the resilience and innate healing, I believe it would require a fairly deliberate effort to kill unless it was later in the adventure (which it doesn't sound like it was). So I would rule it differently and I suspect that either an aspect of the Shield Guardian was forgotten or the Guardian was deliberately targeted (or both).
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token.
If the item was meant to grant a permanent minion, it would have a power that allows you to recreate the golem when destroyed, or the golem would have a special power making it regenerate, because it's the nature of minions to be expendable and expended.
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token.
If the item was meant to grant a permanent minion, it would have a power that allows you to recreate the golem when destroyed, or the golem would have a special power making it regenerate, because it's the nature of minions to be expendable and expended.
The golem does have the power to regenerate. However, I don't think that's what you meant.
A rust monster can destroy nonmagical metal. While it is restricted to nonmagical metal, when it destroys a 1,500 GP suit of full plate, it doesn't make it a consumable item. That was a permanent item that got destroyed by a CR 1/2 creature.
The fact that a character can die does not make them expendable and the same is true for the Shield Guardian. Permanent things can be destroyed/killed.
You are either arguing to convince me that at my tables shield guardians should be dead at 0 HP with no recourse, which I am not going to budge on, or you are arguing with me about ItsScottish_'s campaign, which neither of us have a right to dictate how that game runs. The rules have been laid out and it is ItsScottish_'s choice. I am curious how the fight went but if they choose not to share, that's their prerogative.
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token.
If the item was meant to grant a permanent minion, it would have a power that allows you to recreate the golem when destroyed, or the golem would have a special power making it regenerate, because it's the nature of minions to be expendable and expended.
...I am curious how the fight went but if they choose not to share, that's their prerogative.
I can tell you how it went:
There was about 12 Duergar (off Varying CR) and a homebrew "boss" monster - Just a jacked Duergar. Here's the scene
Duergar Warlords (x2)
Duergar Hammers (x3)
Duergar Duergar (x8)
Duergar Despot (x1)
Duergar Mind Master (x1)
Duergar Xarrorn (X1)
Our BBEG in question had some simple stats -
Legendary Actions/Resist (3- following 2014 Rules)
+1 Weapon (effective +9 to hit)
Standard Duergar traits
Dwarven Plate Armour (AC 20)
Amulet of Health (181 HP)
There was a party of 6 PCs, level 8, using 2024 rules where possible:
Dwarf, Life Cleric
Dwarf, Redemption Paladin
Ghostwise Halfling, Soulknife
Custom Lineage, Wizard, Artificer (Tiefling)
Aasimar, Draconic Sorcerer
Dragonborn (blue), Hexblade
The Duergar were all for helping the PCs break open a glacier until they started to give their names. The duergar recalled their names as the group who broke into his fathers fortress, killed his father and destroyed their dragon - Its an Icewind Dale RotFM game, so Sunblight - things hit the fan and combat breaks out. The combat ends after 7 rounds, initially the adds fight the adds leaving the PCs to fight the BBEG.
Once the enemy adds were done with the tribal warriors, they moved on to the shield guardian. I kept most of the enemy adds away from the PCs for a long as possible. Once the guardian took care of many of the adds and it passed, by the end of combat The Paladin & Cleric were both DBNO and Stable. Everyone rolled p. good that session.
In the end no PC death but then the Wiz/Arti asked "So is the Shield Guardian dead or is there anyway to get them back". At that point I came here and made a post.
Based off of replies though I am happy to say It's just dead bro.
That and the info on them seems to state they are created -by high ranking wizards- for the sole purpose of doing The Batman escape tactic: Send the construct, run away. Weaken the enemy with a smokescreen and have the upper hand later.
Wizards and other spellcasters create shield guardians for protection. A shield guardian treads beside its master, absorbing damage to keep its master alive as long as possible
Emphasis Mine. its a pawn. Its only rare cuz it cost so much to make
A shield guardian’s amulet is subject to direct attack if it isn’t being worn or carried. It has AC 10, 10 hit points, and immunity to poison and psychic damage. Crafting an amulet requires 1 week and costs 1,000 gp in components.
Thats a sink - Time and Money, it's not rare due to its power, its rare cuz it requires so much work.
Since it has no Soul it is beyond Revivify/Raise Dead spells. Therefore once it hits 0 it is essentially broken beyond repair. Whilst it can be knocked Unconscious, the circumstances were that the enemy was poise to kill. So the machine was destroyed.
That and the info on them seems to state they are created -by high ranking wizards- for the sole purpose of doing The Batman escape tactic: Send the construct, run away. Weaken the enemy with a smokescreen and have the upper hand later.
Well, no, they're mostly for providing a hit point buffer on an otherwise rather squishy spellcaster; if all you need is a distraction, something like a elemental gem is a cheaper option.
That and the info on them seems to state they are created -by high ranking wizards- for the sole purpose of doing The Batman escape tactic: Send the construct, run away. Weaken the enemy with a smokescreen and have the upper hand later.
Well, no, they're mostly for providing a hit point buffer on an otherwise rather squishy spellcaster; if all you need is a distraction, something like a elemental gem is a cheaper option.
Well, yeah, if the party is going to deliberately treat the shield guardian as disposable that's going to happen...
There was about 12 Duergar (off Varying CR) and a homebrew "boss" monster - Just a jacked Duergar. Here's the scene
Duergar Warlords (x2)
Duergar Hammers (x3)
Duergar Duergar (x8)
Duergar Despot (x1)
Duergar Mind Master (x1)
Duergar Xarrorn (X1)
Our BBEG in question had some simple stats -
Legendary Actions/Resist (3- following 2014 Rules)
+1 Weapon (effective +9 to hit)
Standard Duergar traits
Dwarven Plate Armour (AC 20)
Amulet of Health (181 HP)
There was a party of 6 PCs, level 8, using 2024 rules where possible:
Dwarf, Life Cleric
Dwarf, Redemption Paladin
Ghostwise Halfling, Soulknife
Custom Lineage, Wizard, Artificer (Tiefling)
Aasimar, Draconic Sorcerer
Dragonborn (blue), Hexblade
Thanks for sharing! Love the map. I don't know how many or what quality Shield Dwarves were helping the PCs but that encounter is rough. I am surprised more PCs didn't die. Each Warlord is CR 6. The Despot is CR 12. That, the custom Deurgar (who is probably well above CR 12 as well) are a crazy encounter for 6 level 8 characters.
Since it has no Soul it is beyond Revivify/Raise Dead spells. Therefore once it hits 0 it is essentially broken beyond repair. Whilst it can be knocked Unconscious, the circumstances were that the enemy was poise to kill. So the machine was destroyed.
All creatures can be revivified/raised unless explicitly stated otherwise. Nothing about a Shield Guardian says it can be resurrected. You are free to house rule as you wish.
You can unsubscribe from the thread using the tools button on the top right. You could also try asking a moderator to lock it as the question was answered. I am not sure if they generally do that here. Hopefully unsubscribing is sufficient.
Duerger were totally against the PCs but Im not adversarial as a DM.
We like a tough fight and a big combat but my custom monsters never outright kill. (It was also CR10). They knock to Death Saves and act like the creature is dead.
I feel my balancing is not 100% yet so I'd hate to TPK cuz i have the balance of a 1 legged tightrope walker :P
ItsScottish_ was asking as a DM what happens. RAW is that it is their choice whether it is dead or incapacitated. I am suggesting that they make the choice in a similar fashion as other companions.
I personally would not effectively break a magic item that is not explicitly expendable. It's not how I personally play, so I would have had the Guardian go down to saves. Animal companions are the best comparable scenario I could think of to guide consistent ruling. With Animal Companions, Familiars, and Paladin Mounts, even if "dead", they can be restored with a minor expense (a spell slot). A similar option could be used for the Shield Guardion, from any healing (Cure Spells if the Shield Guardian is not dead yet) to Raise Dead, Revivify, Resurrection, or True Resurrection. The resurrection path should work without any house ruling/retconning.
In any case, put me down in the I would run it differently column.
Still, I am just surprised that, even with its Maximum Hit Points reduced to 80, the Shield Guardian went down when it heals 10 HP a turn without any outside healing. It has a 17 AC, which isn't awful. It's been a while since I opened up the book, but what took it down? Immediate encounters should be well below the strength of the guardian and it should start every battle at full health.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
The mechanical benefits of a shield guardian are well in excess of the normal power level of a Rare item, so presumably the balancing factor for it being Rare (rather than, err, Legendary) is presumably the temporary nature of the item.
If you say so but that is still irrelevant. The magic item is not, by design, an expendable resource, like a feather token. When you kill the guardian dead, you are taking a resource away from the party. And with the resilience and innate healing, I believe it would require a fairly deliberate effort to kill unless it was later in the adventure (which it doesn't sound like it was). So I would rule it differently and I suspect that either an aspect of the Shield Guardian was forgotten or the Guardian was deliberately targeted (or both).
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
If the item was meant to grant a permanent minion, it would have a power that allows you to recreate the golem when destroyed, or the golem would have a special power making it regenerate, because it's the nature of minions to be expendable and expended.
The golem does have the power to regenerate. However, I don't think that's what you meant.
A rust monster can destroy nonmagical metal. While it is restricted to nonmagical metal, when it destroys a 1,500 GP suit of full plate, it doesn't make it a consumable item. That was a permanent item that got destroyed by a CR 1/2 creature.
The fact that a character can die does not make them expendable and the same is true for the Shield Guardian. Permanent things can be destroyed/killed.
You are either arguing to convince me that at my tables shield guardians should be dead at 0 HP with no recourse, which I am not going to budge on, or you are arguing with me about ItsScottish_'s campaign, which neither of us have a right to dictate how that game runs. The rules have been laid out and it is ItsScottish_'s choice. I am curious how the fight went but if they choose not to share, that's their prerogative.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
I can tell you how it went:
There was about 12 Duergar (off Varying CR) and a homebrew "boss" monster - Just a jacked Duergar. Here's the scene
Our BBEG in question had some simple stats -
There was a party of 6 PCs, level 8, using 2024 rules where possible:
The Duergar were all for helping the PCs break open a glacier until they started to give their names. The duergar recalled their names as the group who broke into his fathers fortress, killed his father and destroyed their dragon - Its an Icewind Dale RotFM game, so Sunblight - things hit the fan and combat breaks out.
The combat ends after 7 rounds, initially the adds fight the adds leaving the PCs to fight the BBEG.
Once the enemy adds were done with the tribal warriors, they moved on to the shield guardian. I kept most of the enemy adds away from the PCs for a long as possible. Once the guardian took care of many of the adds and it passed, by the end of combat The Paladin & Cleric were both DBNO and Stable. Everyone rolled p. good that session.
In the end no PC death but then the Wiz/Arti asked "So is the Shield Guardian dead or is there anyway to get them back".
At that point I came here and made a post.
Based off of replies though I am happy to say It's just dead bro.
That and the info on them seems to state they are created -by high ranking wizards- for the sole purpose of doing The Batman escape tactic: Send the construct, run away. Weaken the enemy with a smokescreen and have the upper hand later.
Emphasis Mine. its a pawn. Its only rare cuz it cost so much to make
Thats a sink - Time and Money, it's not rare due to its power, its rare cuz it requires so much work.
Since it has no Soul it is beyond Revivify/Raise Dead spells.
Therefore once it hits 0 it is essentially broken beyond repair. Whilst it can be knocked Unconscious, the circumstances were that the enemy was poise to kill. So the machine was destroyed.
If I could close this thread I would 😂
All my details are found on my website
And heres some DM info and reviews
Cuz feedback is important
Well, no, they're mostly for providing a hit point buffer on an otherwise rather squishy spellcaster; if all you need is a distraction, something like a elemental gem is a cheaper option.
Well, yeah, if the party is going to deliberately treat the shield guardian as disposable that's going to happen...
Thanks for sharing! Love the map. I don't know how many or what quality Shield Dwarves were helping the PCs but that encounter is rough. I am surprised more PCs didn't die. Each Warlord is CR 6. The Despot is CR 12. That, the custom Deurgar (who is probably well above CR 12 as well) are a crazy encounter for 6 level 8 characters.
All creatures can be revivified/raised unless explicitly stated otherwise. Nothing about a Shield Guardian says it can be resurrected. You are free to house rule as you wish.
You can unsubscribe from the thread using the tools button on the top right. You could also try asking a moderator to lock it as the question was answered. I am not sure if they generally do that here. Hopefully unsubscribing is sufficient.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Duerger were totally against the PCs but Im not adversarial as a DM.
We like a tough fight and a big combat but my custom monsters never outright kill. (It was also CR10).
They knock to Death Saves and act like the creature is dead.
I feel my balancing is not 100% yet so I'd hate to TPK cuz i have the balance of a 1 legged tightrope walker :P
All my details are found on my website
And heres some DM info and reviews
Cuz feedback is important